Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

a life less posted:

Here's a photo of a BT I know. He's a great little functional example of what the breed can be.



His head is moderate, his muzzle has at least a bit of length and his nares are wide. He can go all day if you ask him to. I'm not sure where my friend got him, but I can ask. I assume you're in Canada (since your breeder mentions the CKC), as is she, so there's that at least.

I'm not a fan of making GBS threads on people's mediocre breeder choices, but you can surely do better.

I'm looking to do as well as I can, so I appreciate the help. I would definitely be interested in knowing where your friend got their BT- I am in Canada as well, yeah. Thanks very much!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

a life less posted:

I assume you're in Canada (since your breeder mentions the CKC),

The CKC may also refer to the Continental Kennel Club, which is a really crappy US registry for BYBs and designer dog breeders.

Deep Thoreau
Aug 16, 2008

Did someone say BOSTONS? This is my BT:


We got him because he wasn't terribly wall-eyed, and had some muzzle.


As you can see, he's not completely flat faced. But he still does that 'backwards sneezing' thing.


That breeder is breeding dogs that are guaranteed to have breathing issues at least. Ours was only 300, and he's 'standard' coloration, which I don't think those dogs are.

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Bash Ironfist posted:

Did someone say BOSTONS? This is my BT:


We got him because he wasn't terribly wall-eyed, and had some muzzle.


As you can see, he's not completely flat faced. But he still does that 'backwards sneezing' thing.


That breeder is breeding dogs that are guaranteed to have breathing issues at least. Ours was only 300, and he's 'standard' coloration, which I don't think those dogs are.

That's a great looking dog. Can I ask whereabouts you live? The kijiji/craigslist type BT ads are going for around $800 here, $300 seems extremely low.

Deep Thoreau
Aug 16, 2008

Paper Mac posted:

That's a great looking dog. Can I ask whereabouts you live? The kijiji/craigslist type BT ads are going for around $800 here, $300 seems extremely low.

I live in Los Angeles, a bit far from canada! We got extremely lucky. The woman my mom got him from was a BYB. Didn't show my mom health tests or the parents, wouldn't let her go to the house brought him half way, etc. So be careful about where you get your dog from, and do the research! As for our dog, he seems pretty healthy, but now who knows if he'll develop problems when he gets older, because we have no idea what the parents are like!

He was also infested with giardia, and I'm pretty sure at this point that's why she sold him for so cheap.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
Wait are we doing Boston Terrier pics now, cause I was never too hot on them before but I was at the dog park yesterday shooting pics and uh...



... I suppose I could be convinced.

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Bash Ironfist posted:

I live in Los Angeles, a bit far from canada! We got extremely lucky. The woman my mom got him from was a BYB. Didn't show my mom health tests or the parents, wouldn't let her go to the house brought him half way, etc. So be careful about where you get your dog from, and do the research! As for our dog, he seems pretty healthy, but now who knows if he'll develop problems when he gets older, because we have no idea what the parents are like!

He was also infested with giardia, and I'm pretty sure at this point that's why she sold him for so cheap.

That makes sense, I hadn't thought about parasitic conditions. I definitely need to be more cautious, I'm noticing that several breeders we were looking at that were not cheap are breeding very brachycephalic dogs relative to some of the animals posted here. It's weird because they were still showing those dogs- is brachycephaly not something that the animals are judged on?

Eegah posted:

Wait are we doing Boston Terrier pics now, cause I was never too hot on them before but I was at the dog park yesterday shooting pics and uh...



... I suppose I could be convinced.

I never thought I would end up with a small dog. I had a NS duck tolling retriever when I was a kid and I thought I would like a bigger dog when I got older, and my wife is a rottweiler person. But we had a visit from a young boston recently that convinced us we should get a BT, he was super easy going and fun.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."

Paper Mac posted:

That makes sense, I hadn't thought about parasitic conditions. I definitely need to be more cautious, I'm noticing that several breeders we were looking at that were not cheap are breeding very brachycephalic dogs relative to some of the animals posted here. It's weird because they were still showing those dogs- is brachycephaly not something that the animals are judged on?


I never thought I would end up with a small dog. I had a NS duck tolling retriever when I was a kid and I thought I would like a bigger dog when I got older, and my wife is a rottweiler person. But we had a visit from a young boston recently that convinced us we should get a BT, he was super easy going and fun.

When brachycephalic is basically the show standard (more or less), then they aren't going to get knocked hard for having a dog that looks like it can't breathe.

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

wtftastic posted:

When brachycephalic is basically the show standard (more or less), then they aren't going to get knocked hard for having a dog that looks like it can't breathe.

I see, I figured an animal had to be pretty healthy and fit to be shown. In retrospect, I'm not sure why I assumed that, given the amount of inbreeding required to produce those dogs.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation
^^ Has nothing to do with inbreeding, and everything to do with competitive dog ladies taking breed standard interpretations to extremes and then having to outdo each other on the extremity of their dogs to win. Conformation showing is not about athleticism, it is an arbitrary beauty contest. ;)

wtftastic posted:

When brachycephalic is basically the show standard (more or less), then they aren't going to get knocked hard for having a dog that looks like it can't breathe.

Exactly. In Bostons, the standard is actively detrimental to the health of the dog because the ideal is as close to a *perfectly* round head as possible- so the less muzzle, the better. Dogs with faces are less likely to be shown because they don't do well in the ring. In Bostons, it would be much better to go with a breeder who breeds sporting/competition dogs rather than one who shows in conformation.

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Superconsndar posted:

^^ Has nothing to do with inbreeding, and everything to do with competitive dog ladies taking breed standard interpretations to extremes and then having to outdo each other on the extremity of their dogs to win. Conformation showing is not about athleticism, it is an arbitrary beauty contest. ;)


Exactly. In Bostons, the standard is actively detrimental to the health of the dog because the ideal is as close to a *perfectly* round head as possible- so the less muzzle, the better. Dogs with faces are less likely to be shown because they don't do well in the ring. In Bostons, it would be much better to go with a breeder who breeds sporting/competition dogs rather than one who shows in conformation.

OK, gotcha. Is there any particular reason to prefer a "breed standard" coloration scheme over a non-standard one if the dog appears otherwise healthy (ie moderate head, has a muzzle and can breathe ok, etc), though? Like a BT with a weird color could still be bred to play flyball or whatever?

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.

Paper Mac posted:

OK, gotcha. Is there any particular reason to prefer a "breed standard" coloration scheme over a non-standard one if the dog appears otherwise healthy (ie moderate head, has a muzzle and can breathe ok, etc), though? Like a BT with a weird color could still be bred to play flyball or whatever?

For sure a bizarre coloured dog could play flyball. But a lot of these unusual colours are recessive. If a breeder is solely focusing on breeding a particular colour they may be (re: are likely) doing so to the detriment of other characteristics. "Pretty colour" is not a good enough reason to breed a dog if it's got hosed up structure, CEA, hip dysplasia, a propensity for human aggression, epilepsy, etc...

Breeding funky coloured dogs isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but if that's a motivating factor for breeding, well, it's a lovely one.

a life less fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 28, 2013

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

a life less posted:

For sure a bizarre coloured dog could play flyball. But a lot of these unusual colours are recessive. If a breeder is solely focusing on breeding a particular colour they may be (re: are likely) doing so to the detriment of other characteristics. "Pretty colour" is not a good enough reason to breed a dog if it's got hosed up structure, CEA, hip dysplasia, a propensity for human aggression, epilepsy, etc...

Breeding funky coloured dogs isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but if that's a motivating factor for breeding, well, it's a lovely one.

That makes sense, thanks.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

a life less posted:

For sure a bizarre coloured dog could play flyball. But a lot of these unusual colours are recessive. If a breeder is solely focusing on breeding a particular colour they may be (re: are likely) doing so to the detriment of other characteristics. "Pretty colour" is not a good enough reason to breed a dog if it's got hosed up structure, CEA, hip dysplasia, a propensity for human aggression, epilepsy, etc...

Breeding funky coloured dogs isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but if that's a motivating factor for breeding, well, it's a lovely one.

Yup. Basically, the reason only black, brindle and seal are accepted Boston colors is an arbitrary one written in simply due to the fact that the foundation dogs used in the creation of the breed were largely purebred APBTs of various northern bloodlines (who all tended to be black or brindle marked dogs themselves,) various purebred bulldogs of several bulldog breeds (who all tended to be black or brindle marked themselves) and the mixes thereof. Part of it was that the parent breeds and foundation dogs were usually those colors, and part of it was that the people involved in the early development and standardization of the breed liked those colors and decided they could only be those colors. As with any non-working breed, the decisions as to what as accepted VS what isn't almost always boil down to "just because." Dogs with too much white around the head can have issues with deafness (as do nearly all animals with white spotting genes involved) so the specifics of Boston markings can be tied to health reasons, but not color.

Because all unstandard colors were bred out early on, all the new ~pretty boston colors~ pretty much had to be reintroduced into the breed through crossing in other breeds (usually pit/bully type dogs) which isn't a horrible thing in and of itself, it's just that breeding for color is, like a life less said, a stupid reason to breed anything, especially when they're pointless unrecognized colors.

Basically, if a flyball/agility/inser-dog-sport-here breeder has red/blue/rainbow colored Bostons and they title and health test their dogs, there's no reason not to get one. If, however, the breeder is doing nothing with their dogs but is breeding dogs in trendy colors that can't *even* be shown in conformation, they're being pointless and stupid and I'd walk away.

FWIW, I got my purebred Boston when he was like 4 or 5 months old (so still a very young puppy) from a local rescue for pretty cheap. I see a lot of Bostons in rescue (dunno why, they're barky but otherwise easy dogs) so I wouldn't write it off- my other dog is from a breeder and there are definitely perfectly valid reasons to get a dog from a breeder, but if you just want a buddy, I'd at least browse local rescues and keep an eye out and see what comes up. Because Bostons are a pointless companion breed and I don't sperg out about them, I totally want a red Boston one day even though it's totally incorrect, just because I like red dogs and I think they look cool- but, because most "responsible" Boston breeders wouldn't produce red Bostons, my source will definitely be a rescue when my dog's batteries run out and I go looking for another stupid pointless Boston Terrier.

So, if having a stupidly colored Boston is something you definitely want (which I totally understand!) I would definitely look in rescue unless you just happen to find someone with sport bostons who happen to be weird colors (and they are not actively breeding for those colors.)

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Paper Mac posted:

I never thought I would end up with a small dog. I had a NS duck tolling retriever when I was a kid and I thought I would like a bigger dog when I got older, and my wife is a rottweiler person. But we had a visit from a young boston recently that convinced us we should get a BT, he was super easy going and fun.

I have owned three big dogs and now I own yappy rats.

The nice thing about small dogs is that they are infinitely happy with about 40-60 minutes a day of exercise and they otherwise basically just want you to sit down so they can sleep on you.

Now that I have two, I don't worry about separation anxiety and for the last month have come home to two happy dogs and a ransacked apartment. :)

While I like BTs, I had time to raise a miniature pinscher into adulthood with minimal alone time, and it's extremely rewarding to see him as a well socialized and behaved adult dog when he was such a terror as a puppy. It took two years to get him completely socialized in public (He was a vicious acting turd compensating for being a wuss and things had to go one step at a time.) but he's a great dog now.

Just remember to treat them like dogs and not toys.

Deep Thoreau
Aug 16, 2008

Yeah, Bostons are basically dog potatoes. They can do sports or just chill out and warm your lap. I do wish my mom got her BT from a shelter, but she basically bought him from the first breeder she found. So now we have a dog with cronic giardia who beats up my aunts dog and tries to sniff your butt after you fart. But they're awesome, and when I'm in my own place I'd probably get a BT of my own.

Fraction
Mar 27, 2010

CATS RULE DOGS DROOL

FERRETS ARE ALSO PRETTY MEH, HONESTLY


windex posted:

The nice thing about small dogs is that they are infinitely happy with about 40-60 minutes a day of exercise and they otherwise basically just want you to sit down so they can sleep on you.

quote:

they are infinitely happy with about 40-60 minutes a day of exercise

t:mad:

YMMV!

Fraction fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 29, 2013

Paper Mac
Mar 2, 2007

lives in a paper shack

Superconsndar posted:

So, if having a stupidly colored Boston is something you definitely want (which I totally understand!) I would definitely look in rescue unless you just happen to find someone with sport bostons who happen to be weird colors (and they are not actively breeding for those colors.)

The major concern I had with the rescue route was just that I wasn't sure I would be able to judge how healthy a BT was by observing it myself. I've dealt with a lot of unhealthy animals at work, and I really don't want to have an animal that's stressed and having a difficult time as a companion. I figured going the breeder route would be better, but it's a bit more complicated than I thought! In any case, I'm not obsessed with weird colours, but liked brown ever since I saw this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tXiervShO0

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

:ssh: Get two small dogs and they'll spend another hour or two a day playing and you don't even have to be there. :ssh:

Though I agree, there are always exceptions. Not that the minpin can't do more, we used to go camping and I'd put a locator beacon on him after I trusted him not to wander far and let him run in the middle of nowhere. He killed a grouse (they aren't smart enough to run from predators and he was stalking it bigtime). That was after a four or five hour hike. He got to eat grouse for dinner. But then had to be dewormed two months later. v:shobon:v

Luckily he grew up with cats.

I need to buy a car so we can get out of Tokyo.

UltraGrey
Feb 24, 2007

Eat a grass.
Have a barf.

The Wonder Weapon posted:

We're planning on adopting a miniature schnauzer, and we found what appears to be a solid breeder.

I'm sorry this if from the last page, but you're BUYING a dog. Not adopting.

I hate it when people say they are "adopting" a dog from a breeder they are clearly paying money for a puppy from.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

windex posted:

:ssh: Get two small dogs and they'll spend another hour or two a day playing and you don't even have to be there. :ssh:*

*Does not apply to working terriers.

Almost Smart
Sep 14, 2001

so your telling me you wasn't drunk or fucked up in anyway. when you had sex with me and that monkey
Can someone give me some advice on how to discipline a puppy that takes offense at the word "no?" We have a 13 week-old golden retriever. She's incredibly bright and well-behaved overall, but she loves biting and chewing things she shouldn't, people included. We've tried making yelp like sounds when she does it to let her know she's going too far, but she interprets this as a sign to go in for the kill. We've also tried simply walking away, but she just gets flustered and engages in something more destructive instead.

What does seem to work (to some extent) is telling her "no bite". She usually responds by growling and making gentler nips, but this is far from the response we're looking for. It also seems to be losing its power over her. Earlier tonight, she responded to "no bite" but lunging and biting me in the face. I know she'll eventually grow out of the biting, but I can't have a dog that attacks people for telling her no. What should I do?

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Almost Smart posted:

Can someone give me some advice on how to discipline a puppy that takes offense at the word "no?" We have a 13 week-old golden retriever. She's incredibly bright and well-behaved overall, but she loves biting and chewing things she shouldn't, people included. We've tried making yelp like sounds when she does it to let her know she's going too far, but she interprets this as a sign to go in for the kill. We've also tried simply walking away, but she just gets flustered and engages in something more destructive instead.

What does seem to work (to some extent) is telling her "no bite". She usually responds by growling and making gentler nips, but this is far from the response we're looking for. It also seems to be losing its power over her. Earlier tonight, she responded to "no bite" but lunging and biting me in the face. I know she'll eventually grow out of the biting, but I can't have a dog that attacks people for telling her no. What should I do?

Tire her out otherwise? There are lots of ways to do this. If it's every evening at a set time, try removing access to food a few hours beforehand and spending an hour on training for kibble. My italian greyhound is about this old and if she gets bitey she gets to go on a walk outside because socialization is the most tiring thing for her.

Both of these things mean I have a puppy who only really gets bitey every other day or so, and is easily redirected.

If that still doesn't work, find a high value chew toy she won't refuse, and offer that and sit with her while she chews. It takes awhile to find the right incentive here, and without starting a debate, my dogs will kill for those dingo rawhide bones, but they're both little dogs. What she wants is likely to stop teething pain AND your attention so redirecting the chewing while still spending time with her is win-win.

Yes this does mean spending several hours a day with your dog and well, it's a puppy. You signed up for that. :)

In two years you'll realize it was all worth it if it helps.

Postess with the Mostest
Apr 4, 2007

Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Almost Smart posted:

Can someone give me some advice on how to discipline a puppy that takes offense at the word "no?" We have a 13 week-old golden retriever. She's incredibly bright and well-behaved overall, but she loves biting and chewing things she shouldn't, people included. We've tried making yelp like sounds when she does it to let her know she's going too far, but she interprets this as a sign to go in for the kill. We've also tried simply walking away, but she just gets flustered and engages in something more destructive instead.

There's no point saying "no" or "no bite" at this point. You're just associating that command with whatever action the puppy is doing when you say it.

I would maybe try tethering the dog when you play with it. That way you can say "OUCH!", stand up and get just out of reach for a few moments and then give the puppy another try. It sounds like you've already checked this out but if you haven't, Ian Dunbar has lots of good stuff on bite inhibition. http://www.dogstardaily.com/taxonomy/term/160

If he's too full of energy to pay attention to you when you stand up and ignore him, then get him some exercise first.

Also, puppies are assholes.

melon farmer
Oct 28, 2009

My boy says he can eat fifty eggs, he can eat fifty eggs!
Hey PI.

Disclaimer: I've read the OP, and about the first ~15 pages of the thread. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of it all yet, but I'm not coming in blind either.

I'm dog sitting an adult puggle for the week, and I think the dog is generally really well behaved except for a couple of bad habits (lap-jumping). However, in my extremely amateur opinion it's showing a lot of the signs of separation anxiety - it follows me wherever I go when I'm home, and it gets immediately sad when I leave, complete with barking and whimpering. When I get home, she's typically extremely excited, jumpy, and loud with barking and howling for a good minute when I walk in. I typically take her out in the morning for a long walk, let her out at lunchtime to eliminate, and then take her out again when I get home and again at night, so I don't think its anxiety over having to hold it for the ~4-5 hours at a time that I'm gone. And today when I went home at lunchtime today, I found a lot of paint chips near the front door of my apartment - like she had been biting/pawing at the bottom of the door.

I feel terrible that the dog is so stressed about things, I know I'm always coming back but I haven't been able to convince the dog of it yet. We've dog-sat this dog before on weekends so it's very familiar and friendly with me when I'm around, we've just never had it during a work week. Could this just be because it's in a new environment? Since I only have this dog for a week, should I even do anything? I've read some of the basic humane society stuff online about separation anxiety, but a lot of it sounds like a gradual acclimation thing and that there's not much to be done in the short term.

Thanks in advance.

edit: I'm not technically a "new owner" so this may be better suited for the megathread. If so, let me know and I'll edit/repost.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

melon farmer posted:

Hey PI.

Disclaimer: I've read the OP, and about the first ~15 pages of the thread. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of it all yet, but I'm not coming in blind either.

I'm dog sitting an adult puggle for the week, and I think the dog is generally really well behaved except for a couple of bad habits (lap-jumping). However, in my extremely amateur opinion it's showing a lot of the signs of separation anxiety - it follows me wherever I go when I'm home, and it gets immediately sad when I leave, complete with barking and whimpering. When I get home, she's typically extremely excited, jumpy, and loud with barking and howling for a good minute when I walk in. I typically take her out in the morning for a long walk, let her out at lunchtime to eliminate, and then take her out again when I get home and again at night, so I don't think its anxiety over having to hold it for the ~4-5 hours at a time that I'm gone. And today when I went home at lunchtime today, I found a lot of paint chips near the front door of my apartment - like she had been biting/pawing at the bottom of the door.

I feel terrible that the dog is so stressed about things, I know I'm always coming back but I haven't been able to convince the dog of it yet. We've dog-sat this dog before on weekends so it's very familiar and friendly with me when I'm around, we've just never had it during a work week. Could this just be because it's in a new environment? Since I only have this dog for a week, should I even do anything? I've read some of the basic humane society stuff online about separation anxiety, but a lot of it sounds like a gradual acclimation thing and that there's not much to be done in the short term.

Thanks in advance.

edit: I'm not technically a "new owner" so this may be better suited for the megathread. If so, let me know and I'll edit/repost.

Given that you're just dog sitting, I would focus on management rather than rehabilitation, but it's definitely something the owners should be made aware of. Do your best to provide toys and treats when you leave such as a frozen Kong so that the dog has something to overlap your initial departure with that is pleasant. For now, that's probably the best you can realistically do.

Tayter Swift
Nov 18, 2002

Pillbug
E: Whoa wrong thread

Tayter Swift fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 31, 2013

Aethersphere
Mar 21, 2009

you see me rollin up pops you step aside
My husband and I are looking at getting our first dog in the next six months or so, once we are really sure that we have settled down and have an environment that is going to be good for raising one. We are looking at Shelties through Zesta Shelties, who I think looks pretty legit but I'm not sure.

Is a Sheltie a good dog for a first-time owner? We will be living either in Calgary or Edmonton, depending on how the next couple of months go, so it will be cold in the winter with hot summers. My husband has had border collies in the past, but I've never had a dog. I'm just really, really worried about doing a bad job.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Aethersphere posted:

My husband and I are looking at getting our first dog in the next six months or so, once we are really sure that we have settled down and have an environment that is going to be good for raising one. We are looking at Shelties through Zesta Shelties, who I think looks pretty legit but I'm not sure.

Is a Sheltie a good dog for a first-time owner? We will be living either in Calgary or Edmonton, depending on how the next couple of months go, so it will be cold in the winter with hot summers. My husband has had border collies in the past, but I've never had a dog. I'm just really, really worried about doing a bad job.

Do you like barking? How about biting? Are you interested in training and dog activities? How much exercise can you give to the pup? Shelties are small but they're still herding dogs so they're active and smart and tend to find ways to entertain themselves if you don't do it for them (you will not like their ways). Herder puppies love love looooove to bite and run and then bite some more so be sure that is something you are prepared for.

That breeder doesn't look bad although I wish they did more health testing. In their info page they say that shelties aren't prone to any physical problems but from what I've seen most breed clubs suggest they be tested for hip problems, several eye problems, and thyroid deficiencies so I would ask the breeder if she has experienced any health issues in her lines and ask to see any health testing results from the puppy's parents. In general I've heard shelties are pretty hardy though so maybe she just doesn't feel like testing is necessary? That's something you'll have to decide for yourself after speaking to her and asking about her position though.

I LOVE that the breeder has obedience and agility titles on her dogs. Herding dogs are supposed to be versatile so the fact that her dogs aren't just fancy puffballs that trot around the ring sometimes is a good sign. A lot of shelties I've met have been nervy and have issues in public so the fact that her dogs are out getting titles other than conformation means she probably is considering temperament in breeding too. Definitely meet her dogs and ask about what temperaments are like in her lines though.

All in all if you think you can handle a herding puppy she seems like a pretty good choice. The breeder should be able to talk to you about shelties specifically and answer any specific questions. Showdog ladies love talking dog so give her a call and let her sperg for a while and then see if you think the breed is a good fit for you.

Tiny Faye
Feb 17, 2005

Are you ready for an ORGAN SOLO?!

Aethersphere posted:

We are looking at Shelties through Zesta Shelties, who I think looks pretty legit but I'm not sure.


The Canadian tuxedo family portrait is amazing.

MrFurious
Dec 11, 2003
THINKS HE IS BEST AT DOGS (is actually worst at dogs!!!)

Instant Jellyfish posted:

Do you like barking? How about biting? Are you interested in training and dog activities? How much exercise can you give to the pup? Shelties are small but they're still herding dogs so they're active and smart and tend to find ways to entertain themselves if you don't do it for them (you will not like their ways). Herder puppies love love looooove to bite and run and then bite some more so be sure that is something you are prepared for.

That breeder doesn't look bad although I wish they did more health testing. In their info page they say that shelties aren't prone to any physical problems but from what I've seen most breed clubs suggest they be tested for hip problems, several eye problems, and thyroid deficiencies so I would ask the breeder if she has experienced any health issues in her lines and ask to see any health testing results from the puppy's parents. In general I've heard shelties are pretty hardy though so maybe she just doesn't feel like testing is necessary? That's something you'll have to decide for yourself after speaking to her and asking about her position though.

I LOVE that the breeder has obedience and agility titles on her dogs. Herding dogs are supposed to be versatile so the fact that her dogs aren't just fancy puffballs that trot around the ring sometimes is a good sign. A lot of shelties I've met have been nervy and have issues in public so the fact that her dogs are out getting titles other than conformation means she probably is considering temperament in breeding too. Definitely meet her dogs and ask about what temperaments are like in her lines though.

All in all if you think you can handle a herding puppy she seems like a pretty good choice. The breeder should be able to talk to you about shelties specifically and answer any specific questions. Showdog ladies love talking dog so give her a call and let her sperg for a while and then see if you think the breed is a good fit for you.

Just to add to this, I grew up with shelties, mostly from show lines. The things to really watch for are hips and thyroid in my experience - very common. The thyroid can be really hard to catch with some of them too. I would be sure to ask about both of these specifically, particularly the thyroid issue. It's very easy to treat with just daily medication, but letting it go misdiagnosed can be a real pain. We also had some gall bladder issues as well, which I believe is another genetic issue, but I'm not sure of that.

Also their puppy application doesn't look very stringent, so in a perfect world I would want them to really grill you when you talk to them in person or over the phone.

Aethersphere
Mar 21, 2009

you see me rollin up pops you step aside
Thank you guys so much! I know my husband loved his border collie and worked with her quite a lot (she was a bit dumb but very active) but I will definitely bring this up with him when we talk about it a bit more. I know they are bitey by nature, but is there training you can do to help discourage this when they are puppies?

I will absolutely ask about the health issues. I don't know how to tell you how much I appreciate your advice!

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Aethersphere posted:

I know they are bitey by nature, but is there training you can do to help discourage this when they are puppies?

Find a non toxic yuck spray the dog hates and prepare to cover your hands in it during bitey time when redirection fails. Puppies don't respond well to no without reinforcing penalties.

Some dogs love bitter sprays so you'll have to experiment. I lucked out with this puppy, she hates bitter apple and throws an over dramatic diva grade tantrum when she even smells it.

edit: It's adorable.

cryingscarf
Feb 4, 2007

~*FaBuLoUs*~

Aethersphere posted:

I know they are bitey by nature, but is there training you can do to help discourage this when they are puppies?

It is actually pretty simple, but it will take time and you may feel goofy. Every time the puppy bites/nips, yelp and put a pause on the playing. Even get up and walk away if you have to. Basically the puppy needs to learn that biting = not cool because it hurts you and the fun stops. Be patient with it and it will all be worth it in the end. I am not sure what to do if the dog is weirdly stubborn about these things because I haven't come across one yet. I have no clue how to train out the herding breed habit of nipping heels though. Hopefully someone with herders can give advice on that.

Fraction
Mar 27, 2010

CATS RULE DOGS DROOL

FERRETS ARE ALSO PRETTY MEH, HONESTLY


windex posted:

Find a non toxic yuck spray the dog hates and prepare to cover your hands in it during bitey time when redirection fails. Puppies don't respond well to no without reinforcing penalties.

Some dogs love bitter sprays so you'll have to experiment. I lucked out with this puppy, she hates bitter apple and throws an over dramatic diva grade tantrum when she even smells it.

edit: It's adorable.

You really don't need to use bitter sprays. It's not teaching a puppy much other than to find your hands aversive (the only if you actually remember to spray before the pup starts chomping). It's much better to act like a puppy yourself and yelp very loudly and turn away to give the puppy the cold shoulder for a while; or, for dogs that are excited by yelping or way over threshold, yelping & immediately leaving the room.

The upside of yelping is that it's pretty much understood by every puppy, particularly if they spent the correct amount of time with their littermates. Plus it has the positive affect of teaching the puppy to have control over their mouth and of their bite pressure, rather than teaching that hands are bad.

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Fraction posted:

You really don't need to use bitter sprays. It's not teaching a puppy much other than to find your hands aversive (the only if you actually remember to spray before the pup starts chomping). It's much better to act like a puppy yourself and yelp very loudly and turn away to give the puppy the cold shoulder for a while; or, for dogs that are excited by yelping or way over threshold, yelping & immediately leaving the room.

The upside of yelping is that it's pretty much understood by every puppy, particularly if they spent the correct amount of time with their littermates. Plus it has the positive affect of teaching the puppy to have control over their mouth and of their bite pressure, rather than teaching that hands are bad.

This is true but in my case at least I am dealing with a puppy who is growing up with an older dog who doesn't mind and just chews back and/or outsmarts her. The yelping thing worked for about 2 weeks, and she just follows me if I walk off. She's stopped chewing on everything _but_ hands at this point, which is a major improvement (after the needle tooth gash on my ear a few weeks back).

It's pretty much the last resort, and redirection (via other chewy approved object, yelping, or training command) only fails about once a week. I should have qualified further. :)

edit: I should probably note, she had one littermate; she's an italian greyhound. Average litter size is 2-3, it was her and a male. She's missing a few normal learned behaviors, likely due to this as far as I can tell. The older dog helps, but he's a minpin and doesn't mind playing rough. She is not well socialized to strange dogs either (which I knew would be the case after talking to the breeder) and that'll be a long road, the good news is that that hasn't progressed beyond shy into hostility.

windex fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Feb 4, 2013

Splat
Aug 22, 2002
Weird question: Since we've had Penelope (~3 weeks) we've noticed she's kind of.. poorly coordinated? I guess that's the best way to put it. When she walks she seems normal, and her full sprint seems normal too, but when he's in the mid-range trot she either pick up her front legs way more than normal (like she's walking on hot coal with them or something), or she does a weird skip trot. She's also kinda clumsy going up and down the stairs. It's weird because she's fairy well balanced when she's standing on her hind legs, but her regular movement is weird. I got a couple sorta okay examples of it on video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYCQ4wkAvSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOu8m5zhKM

Is this anything to worry about or just her being kinda clumsy looking?

Topoisomerase
Apr 12, 2007

CULTURE OF VICIOUSNESS

Splat posted:

Weird question: Since we've had Penelope (~3 weeks) we've noticed she's kind of.. poorly coordinated? I guess that's the best way to put it. When she walks she seems normal, and her full sprint seems normal too, but when he's in the mid-range trot she either pick up her front legs way more than normal (like she's walking on hot coal with them or something), or she does a weird skip trot. She's also kinda clumsy going up and down the stairs. It's weird because she's fairy well balanced when she's standing on her hind legs, but her regular movement is weird. I got a couple sorta okay examples of it on video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYCQ4wkAvSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjOu8m5zhKM

Is this anything to worry about or just her being kinda clumsy looking?

Is it only on that surface that she's on there (which looks like a fairly slippery one) or is it outside on grass that she runs like this too?

It'd be nice to see someone gait her at a few different angles.

Also what does she look like when she's eating?

And how old is she?

Splat
Aug 22, 2002

Topoisomerase posted:

Is it only on that surface that she's on there (which looks like a fairly slippery one) or is it outside on grass that she runs like this too?

It'd be nice to see someone gait her at a few different angles.

Also what does she look like when she's eating?

And how old is she?

I'm not positive on grass, but she's also like that on other somewhat grippy surfaces like concrete/carpet. I'll try and get some better angles but sometimes if I call her over she just bounds over too fast and it doesn't happy so it's tough.

She seems fairly normal when she eats, at least nothing sticks out?

Vet puts her at less than 2 years old, but she's a rescue so it's vague. She did say she has some slight clicking in her knees.

I posted this vid in the yappy rat thread but maybe it'll help. It's her running around in our back yard looking somewhat normal, but you can see a little of her high-feetedness sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK_rb_66rKQ

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Topoisomerase
Apr 12, 2007

CULTURE OF VICIOUSNESS
Yeah I stalked to see if there were other videos and saw that one, she doesn't look terribly ataxic, I agree, but she does look like she overextends a bit.

Do you have a lead that somebody can put on her and walk/trot her back and forth a few times?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply