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Chenghiz posted:Why are black knights amazing? They look to be similar to SM biker command squads, which suffer enormously from being 40+ point models with a 3+ armor save and 1 wound. I guess it's plasma, hit-and-run, and the (if I remember correctly) S5 rending weapons they get. Plus skilled rider gives them a 4+ cover save, 3+ if you take the skimmer thingie. They basically get 5 attacks on the charge as well. Yup! They are expensive, but honestly it's worth it for all the goodies they get.
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Jan 28, 2013 07:09
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LordAba posted:I guess it's plasma, hit-and-run, and the (if I remember correctly) S5 rending weapons they get. Plus skilled rider gives them a 4+ cover save, 3+ if you take the skimmer thingie. They basically get 5 attacks on the charge as well. Yup! They are expensive, but honestly it's worth it for all the goodies they get. 4 attacks, but yeah.
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Jan 28, 2013 07:16
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Also a 2+ cover when flat out near a darkshroud is pretty nice
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Jan 28, 2013 07:16
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Ghost Hand posted:Am I the only one that saw this model and thought "That thing sticking out of his back is going to make an awesome head on The Black Mace I am going to put on a demon prince..." Gwar monster throwing up devil horns during a concert e: Haha it costs $80. FW is officially cheaper. BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 08:20
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TheBlobThing posted:I finished a 10-man infantry squad for my Imperial Guard list. These look fantastic. Only another 150+ to go..... Please post updates pics so I can admire them as you go slowly insane.
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Jan 28, 2013 09:18
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BULBASAUR posted:e: Haha it costs $80. FW is officially cheaper. Why, that's only 4x as expensive as the single retarded wolf helmet wolf guard wolf from the last page! For it's size, this thing's a steal!
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Jan 28, 2013 09:30
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Raphus C posted:These look fantastic. Only another 150+ to go..... Please post updates pics so I can admire them as you go slowly insane. Well, on my 1500 points list I only have 70 models (plus 4 tanks and a Vendetta  ).I'll keep posting updates whenever I finish something. I painted these 10 guys at the same time, but I might cut it up into 2 x 5 mens instead because gently caress me, that was uphill. Maybe that will keep me from going completely insane. Thanks by the way!
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Jan 28, 2013 09:39
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Well, I took the advice with regards to dealing with AV12 flyers when I played against that GK opponent, and it didn't really help. The problem isn't the shooting from the Stormraven, its the purifiers that jump out and assault. Even the flame templates weren't so much trouble (that only killed about 6 or 8 of the boys), it was that bullshit psychic power Cleansing Flame. 10 orks dead and he didn't even get around to rolling close combat attacks. I didn't get to hit back because I was spread out so much to avoid the templates we actually had a situation where no one could pile in and get engaged. So basically once that happened on turn 3, he just focused his fire on my other mob of boys and the game was over. List was like this. code:
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Jan 28, 2013 09:54
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treeboy posted:I didn't see the 40k MMO thread anymore in MMOHMO or I would've put this there. But there's some art trickling out here and there from Dark Millennium Online now that THQ has folded I was scrolling down through the pages looking for anything interesting (there wasn't much) and I came upon the test head-sculpt of a human. I know that guy, Misha. He's the guy that sold me his Chaos Space Marines army (and is also a TG goon). 
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Jan 28, 2013 13:19
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:4 attacks, but yeah. Well, they do get hammer of wraith. Not too exciting, but extra S4 hits are never bad.
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Jan 28, 2013 15:04
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Don't forget the Ravenwing grenade launchers. Always bring two, so that they can fire both a rad grenade and a stasis grenade at the same unit. The effects even apply to enemy units that are barely clipped by the blast template. Against MEQ/TEQ, assuming both grenades hit, they get reduced to WS3, T3, I3, meaning your Black Knights now hit on a 3+, wound on a 2+, and swing first. I mean, not many MEQ/TEQ are going to survive the plasma volley from the other Black Knights, but yeah. The only issue Black Knights have besides being expensive is the lack of an invulnerable save, but that's what power field generators are for. They're my favorite unit in the codex.
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Jan 28, 2013 15:37
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Ghost Hand posted:Am I the only one that saw this model and thought "That thing sticking out of his back is going to make an awesome head on The Black Mace I am going to put on a demon prince..." I thought what I always think when I see models like that: "It looks great, but how the hell do you bring it to a game?" Especially these ones.    
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Jan 28, 2013 16:00
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Phyresis posted:Don't forget the Ravenwing grenade launchers. Always bring two, so that they can fire both a rad grenade and a stasis grenade at the same unit. The effects even apply to enemy units that are barely clipped by the blast template. Against MEQ/TEQ, assuming both grenades hit, they get reduced to WS3, T3, I3, meaning your Black Knights now hit on a 3+, wound on a 2+, and swing first. I mean, not many MEQ/TEQ are going to survive the plasma volley from the other Black Knights, but yeah. Hell, given rad/stasis, I'd probably prefer to multi-charge, because 18 attacks + Sammael's 4 + T5 means that you're probably going to wipe tacticals even without the charge bonus attack, and I'd prefer to keep the black knights in combat until the enemy turn so I can hit and run.
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Jan 28, 2013 16:01
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BULBASAUR posted:e: Haha it costs $80. FW is officially cheaper. It's not even Finecast. It's plastic. Which I actually prefer as a material, but isn't its supposed to be cheaper?
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Jan 28, 2013 17:28
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Dominion posted:It's not even Finecast. It's plastic. Which I actually prefer as a material, but isn't its supposed to be cheaper? The initial cost of the plastic mold is really high and plastic is getting more expensive, being a petrochemical. HOWEVER, $85 for a model that fits on a chariot base is loving insane. Tom Kirby was bragging to investors about the high elasticity of the price of their products - I think they are pushing their limits to see what we will tolerate, but it's getting kind of stupid at this point. One shudders to think of how high this summer's price hike is going to be. It seems as though they are trying their hardest to price themselves right out of existence. It's almost like exec is trying to pump up short term profit and golden parachute away from the burning wreckage...
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Jan 28, 2013 17:34
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Indolent Bastard posted:I thought what I always think when I see models like that: "It looks great, but how the hell do you bring it to a game?"
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Jan 28, 2013 17:50
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It's not too late to be painting Dark Vengeance models, right?   Thanks for the prescience idea, gonna re-roll so many scatter dice with this guy.
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Jan 28, 2013 17:59
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Pierzak posted:What do you mean? Of course you carry it in the Officially Official Special GW Foam for the Official GW Miniature Cases.What made you think otherwise? I'm laughing so hard at the thought of GW ever making foam that fits anything other than stock-pose space marines.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:02
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Dominion posted:I'm laughing so hard at the thought of GW ever making foam that fits anything other than stock-pose space marines. 
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Jan 28, 2013 18:18
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Sykic posted:It's not too late to be painting Dark Vengeance models, right? I really do love this model.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:22
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Am I dumb or can a Ravenwing Command Squad only be three men strong (excluding independent characters?
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Jan 28, 2013 18:24
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Command squads are only three dudes, yes.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:30
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I've finally admitted to myself that I need a better way to store all of my Necromunda gangs than just stuffing them 2 or 3 deep into old foam trays designed to hold terminators. What carrying/storage cases have people had the best luck with? I don't necessarily need something super portable, since we always end up playing at my apartment anyways. Also, I don't need too much space for large vehicles, the Necromunda gangers range from Imperial Guardsman size to Kroot size. Any recommendations? VVV Ok! Thanks! triad fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 18:30
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KR Multicase.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:31
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KR are the best cases and the best case makers.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:32
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I really need to get some KR poo poo for my armies; stuff's falling apart in my plastic bins without foam
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Jan 28, 2013 18:45
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triad posted:I've finally admitted to myself that I need a better way to store all of my Necromunda gangs than just stuffing them 2 or 3 deep into old foam trays designed to hold terminators. What carrying/storage cases have people had the best luck with? Not sure how many you have but if it is just for Necromunda gangs they tend to be small and you might want to look at the Aquilla line of KR cases (shown here under the Skirmish section) http://krmulticase.com/cases.aspx?s=S If you have a lot of Necromunda gangs, one KR Card Case will probably hold them all. It can fit a 1500 point 40k Army nicely. (assuming no huge poo poo like Drop Pods, Defilers, or large flyers). The site is not the easiest to use - I have given that feedback to Daryl in an email to him a few weeks ago as he is re-upping his sponsorship of The IC's. But if you are having problems figuring out what you want/need. Email them - tell them what you are trying to store/transport and they will tell you exactly what you should buy.
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Jan 28, 2013 19:00
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Here's my attempt to make a "gently caress you, I'm rerolling artillery" DA/IG list:code:
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Jan 28, 2013 19:09
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So my friend is arguing that vehicles cannot take Feel No Pain saves because they don’t suffer wounds, they lose Hull Points. I can’t find anything in the rule book to disprove this, but this would also suggest that vehicles cannot take invulnerable saves since they are made against wounds. The rules do say that vehicles can benefit from cover but nothing about other types of saves. Everyone I have played against has assumed that vehicles can get invulnerable saves, have we all been playing wrong or is there something I am missing?
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Jan 28, 2013 20:04
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So my friend is arguing that vehicles cannot take Feel No Pain saves because they don’t suffer wounds, they lose Hull Points. I can’t find anything in the rule book to disprove this, but this would also suggest that vehicles cannot take invulnerable saves since they are made against wounds. The rules do say that vehicles can benefit from cover but nothing about other types of saves. Everyone I have played against has assumed that vehicles can get invulnerable saves, have we all been playing wrong or is there something I am missing? This is quite frankly a Rules as Written type arguement interpretted to the nth degree. Technically, RaW - the ONLY vehicle that gets an invuln save is Bjorn. However, this is freakin stupid as clearly there are other vehicles with listed Invuln saves and the intention is that they take an invuln save. There is a huge discussion about it on the dakka rules forums, which I have come to realize are guys purely arguing about RaW even though they KNOW the generally accepted way to play is going to differ from that. Standard way of playing vehicle with Invuln save is that the roll to hit is made, the roll to pen or glance is made, the invuln save is taken. If failed you then roll on the damage chart. If succeeded you stop the roll on the damage chart and no hull point is lost. What vehicle has a FNP save associated with it? Ghost Hand fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jan 28, 2013 |
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Jan 28, 2013 20:09
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So my friend is arguing that vehicles cannot take Feel No Pain saves because they don’t suffer wounds, they lose Hull Points. I can’t find anything in the rule book to disprove this, but this would also suggest that vehicles cannot take invulnerable saves since they are made against wounds. The rules do say that vehicles can benefit from cover but nothing about other types of saves. Everyone I have played against has assumed that vehicles can get invulnerable saves, have we all been playing wrong or is there something I am missing? FnP is not a save. End argument 
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Jan 28, 2013 20:11
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So my friend is arguing that vehicles cannot take Feel No Pain saves because they don’t suffer wounds, they lose Hull Points. I can’t find anything in the rule book to disprove this, but this would also suggest that vehicles cannot take invulnerable saves since they are made against wounds. The rules do say that vehicles can benefit from cover but nothing about other types of saves. Everyone I have played against has assumed that vehicles can get invulnerable saves, have we all been playing wrong or is there something I am missing? Vehicles cannot make Feels No Pain rolls. RAW, they can't take invulnerable saves, either, but that's one of those situations that everyone just ignores via unspoken agreement. This is one of those eternal issues that GW has never, ever bothered to FAQ or clarify, not even in the 6th edition rulebook, but the intent is clear because there are vehicles with invulnerable saves, such as Flickerfields on Dark Eldar vehicles and Daemon engines with a 5++. Oh, and Bjorn can roll his invulnerable save RAW because Codex: Space Wolves says so 
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Jan 28, 2013 20:11
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Phyresis posted:Vehicles cannot make Feels No Pain rolls. RAW, they can't take invulnerable saves, either, but that's one of those situations that everyone just ignores via unspoken agreement. This is one of those eternal issues that GW has never, ever bothered to FAQ or clarify, not even in the 6th edition rulebook, but the intent is clear because there are vehicles with invulnerable saves, such as Flickerfields on Dark Eldar vehicles and Daemon engines with a 5++. Yep - this is the arguement I was referring to. If you friend is saying you cannot take invuln saves on vehicles that have them.... he isn't your friend.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:16
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Is the argument then "GW sucks at writing rules. Invul saves can be made against wounds and damage taken by vehicles as suggested by some vehicles which take them. FNP cannot be taken by vehicles because they do not suffer wounds and there is nothing to suggest they can from other vehicles" This makes sense to me but RAW it seems like vehicles should not get to take invul saves (including Heldrakes those fuckers). My friend isn't arguing that they can't take invul, just not FNP, but when I looked in to it I discovered that they shouldn't be taking invul as well
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Jan 28, 2013 20:20
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JesusIsTehCool posted:My friend isn't arguing that they can't take invul, just not FNP, but when I looked in to it I discovered that they shouldn't be taking invul as well quote:When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound, it can make a special Feel No Pain roll to avoid being wounded (this is not a saving throw). I suppose if you wanted to you could roll Feel No Pain on all vehicles, but it would have no effect as it causes you to ignore an inflicted wound, not a Hull Point and the potential vehicle damage roll result.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:25
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Wait, why can't vehicles take invu saves? I mean contemptors have invu saves built in?
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Jan 28, 2013 20:29
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PierreTheMime posted:I suppose if you wanted to you could roll Feel No Pain on all vehicles, but it would have no effect as it causes you to ignore an inflicted wound, not a Hull Point and the potential vehicle damage roll result. Yeah, I guess technically Blood Angels vehicles within 6" of a friendly Sanguinary Priest are "subject to the Furious Charge and Feel No Pain special rules," but they don't actually do anything on vehicles. CyberLord XP posted:Wait, why can't vehicles take invu saves? I mean contemptors have invu saves built in? We just went over it; technically there is no provision in the rulebook that allows them to do so. Cover saves for vehicles are explicitly explained in the rulebook; invulnerable saves are not, and refer to preventing Wounds, which vehicles don't have.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:29
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Is the argument then "GW sucks at writing rules. In the rule books themselves GW explicitly says they're just a framework and the intent is you houserule things up to make it more fun. The only problem is when people try to take what they have and use it in competitive tournament settings where ambiguity and house rules aren't really desirable. I'm not even sure GW sees this kind of stuff as a problem to be solved.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:29
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What happens with walkers and counter-attack/furious charge? For instance some Sentinels near Straken.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:32
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PierreTheMime posted:I suppose if you wanted to you could roll Feel No Pain on all vehicles, but it would have no effect as it causes you to ignore an inflicted wound, not a Hull Point and the potential vehicle damage roll result. I am not really arguing that vehicles should get Feel No Pain, it just seems that the rules are not clear on how damage taken by vehicles and rules written about unsaved wounds interact. It seems to me that vehicles are intended to take invul saves (which are made against wounds) but vehicles never receive wounds. I guess I was just hoping someone could reveal some part of the rule book I missed to clear this up, but I guess that is not the case.
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Jan 28, 2013 20:32
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