redjenova posted:Just upgraded to the i7 and bumped it up to the 1TB fusion drive. I'm really excited to use it, it's the second computer I've ever bought and I've not ever had a desktop. Not anything this nice either! You didn't get the GTX 680MX? Big mistake
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Jan 28, 2013 14:27
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flavor posted:The person you're quoting who complains about Safari rendering has a 13" rMBP, which already has integrated graphics only, so there's nothing to scrap. The 15" one has an additional dedicated GT650M. Either way, it scrolls complex web pages at 1/3rd the FPS of last years MacBook Pro. If that's not enough to keep someone from waiting a year, I don't know what else to say. Is the machine usable as it sits this year? Sure. If you waited and get one when Haswell comes around, would you enjoy it more? Very likely. To go back to the MacBook Air when it first came out: It ran hot, had terrible storage (1.8" HDD, or crap SSD), the CPU was throttled like crazy, Intel GMA 950 or whatever it was, and it had that stupid hinge port. As the product matured you got a real SSD, great battery life, big price reduction, faster chips that didn't get clocked down as they heated up, much better graphics, and as a bonus an increase in screen resolution. The Air went from a overpriced, under-powered, technical wonder and conversation piece to the default recommendation on this forum for every Mac portable user.
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Jan 28, 2013 14:42
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Abandon posted:You didn't get the GTX 680MX? Big mistake I doubt it.
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Jan 28, 2013 15:06
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wheez the roux posted:If we're just throwing anecdotes out there, my 15" rMBP is the worst Mac I've ever bought. Terrible image retention* that's rendered Photoshop unusable, insane graphics glitches when waking from sleep (bugged out static across everything, among other errors), it crashed (full-blown kernel panics) more in the first week than my 2007 MBP did in 5 years, randomly restarts, among all kinds of other Mine's been flawless and perfect, as have the other three that are roaming around my place of work. Anecdote, how do you do?
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Jan 28, 2013 16:31
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issues. Knowing what I know now I'd have never bought this thing, though Haswell will be better, I'm sure.
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Bob Morales posted:It still drive the screen with the HD4000 unless you're doing something that makes the OS decide to use the discrete chip. That's a software problem, both GPUs are plenty capable of running the display. Try the Webkit nightlies, they're much more fluid. Still not perfect, though.
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Jan 28, 2013 16:39
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Radical Cut posted:That's a software problem, both GPUs are plenty capable of running the display. Try the Webkit nightlies, they're much more fluid. Still not perfect, though.
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Jan 28, 2013 18:15
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EtaBetaPi posted:Mine's been flawless and perfect, as have the other three that are roaming around my place of work. Anecdote, how do you do? Same here. The only kernel panics I've received were from Chrome, and they've fixed that. I think I had a total of 4, and those were in the first month of owning it (and I ordered mine the day it came out and received it less than a week later).
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Jan 28, 2013 18:31
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wheez the roux posted:If we're just throwing anecdotes out there, What else can we do here? Post our statistically representative phone surveys from last week? wheez the roux posted:my 15" rMBP is the worst Mac I've ever bought. Terrible image retention* that's rendered Photoshop unusable, insane graphics glitches when waking from sleep (bugged out static across everything, among other errors), it crashed (full-blown kernel panics) more in the first week than my 2007 MBP did in 5 years, randomly restarts, among all kinds of other With all the issues I've had (iMac display cough cough), I never had any trouble of convincing the "Geniuses" (stupid name, but that's for another debate) of the problems being real. It tends to take them 10 to 15 seconds of looking at the issues I'm showing them. I guess it depends a little bit on how a given Apple Store is being run. Another thing is of course how you approach people - I wouldn't want to have to deal with a lot of the people who post here if their real life personas are anything like they are in this thread. Anyway, if memory serves, Binary Badger had posted at some point that he would recommend against mentioning lemon laws or similar things directly to the Geniuses, and I'd extend that to forums posts that say something should be covered. I show these guys the issue and ask what can be done. That has always resulted in a satisfactory outcome for me. I've had only one kernel crashing issue with the rMBP, and that was when trying to install a now outdated version of Xcode from the app store. The current version doesn't do that anymore. I've had very occasional crashes on the other Macs I have also, on the order of about one every 6-9 months. (Again, full kernel crashes. Steam crashes pretty often on all my Macs on termination and until very recently used to do this on Windows also when I idled in TF2.) My current uptime is over 68 days. SourKraut posted:It's not just in Safari/Chrome/etc., though. OS X's UI can have performance issues, because neither the CPUs or GPUs in the rMBPs were intended to handle the resolution scaling occurring. When you double or triple pixel density, you're asking a lot of the hardware. BTW at home I use the rMBP with the Thunderbolt Display mostly (effectively as an iMac), so there's of course no scaling there. Who uses a laptop as a desktop without an external display when those are to be had for $110? (Many people, I know, but it's still stupid.) Bob Morales posted:It still drive the screen with the HD4000 unless you're doing something that makes the OS decide to use the discrete chip. Okay but we were talking about whether or not Apple would keep discrete GPUs, so I just pointed out that the 13" one doesn't have one.
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Jan 28, 2013 21:14
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flavor posted:Anyway, if memory serves, Binary Badger had posted at some point that he would recommend against mentioning lemon laws or similar things directly to the Geniuses, and I'd extend that to forums posts that say something should be covered. Definitely just be honest and explain what you want. I believe what I had tried to actually hint at was that you shouldn't immediately go to Defcon One. If you walk in with a machine and start roaring poo poo like 'I KNOW YOU HAVE A THREE STRIKES RULE" or something similar, that will likely set off some alarm bells in the manager's mind and you might not get treated as well as if you'd just been honest with your problem.
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Jan 28, 2013 21:49
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New Henge Dock? http://hengedocks.com/order_horizontal_dock.php   
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Jan 28, 2013 22:01
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Bob Morales posted:New Henge Dock? You tell me, these guys are trailing new MBP models pretty badly it looks like. The version with Thunderbolt is supposed to be out in Q4 of 2013. Of course what's the rush, by that time Thunderbolt Macs will only have been sold for close to 3 years plus new MBPs will be out that will possibly have ever so slightly differently ports which may additionally be ever so slightly differently aligned. What this does highlight is a legitimate issue with the rMPBs: The lack of a Kensington Lock. For the next version, I'd also really have that white sleep LED and the green battery display LEDs back. Plus, ideally, a 17" rMBP.
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Jan 28, 2013 22:44
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flavor posted:You tell me, these guys are trailing new MBP models pretty badly it looks like. The version with Thunderbolt is supposed to be out in Q4 of 2013. Of course what's the rush, by that time Thunderbolt Macs will only have been sold for close to 3 years plus new MBPs will be out that will possibly have ever so slightly differently ports which may additionally be ever so slightly differently aligned. I wouldn't wish a 17" laptop on anyone, it defeats the whole purpose of having a laptop.
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Jan 28, 2013 23:47
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etalian posted:I wouldn't wish a 17" laptop on anyone, it defeats the whole purpose of having a laptop. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that Apple is long-gone from the 17" laptop game. The 15" rMBP set to a higher resolution, non-retina dpi should do the job for those who need the extra real estate anyway.
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Jan 28, 2013 23:58
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I recently received my 15" rMBP and while the screen looks absolutely amazing (seriously, it looks fantastic), I'm going to be returning this to the Apple Store. I got a BTO with 16GB RAM and I can't believe just how laggy OSX feels while displaying in the Best for Retina resolution. I'm coming from a 2012 MBP and I've never encountered this kind of overall system lagginess. If you're looking for an example, I'd say go to About this Mac and switch through the tabs. That's to say nothing of browser performance. As a long-time Chrome user, I have to say that Safari is definitely the browser to use if you're using an rMBP. The smoothness of the scrolling is leagues beyond that of Chrome. Even so, some pages still lag, and I just don't find that kind of performance acceptable in a $3K+ machine. quote:NOTE: If you're running Chrome on an rMBP, I found that enabling GPU/Threaded Compositing in chrome://flags really helps with scrolling smoothness, but has the unfortunate side effect of disabling the Back/Forward gesture in the browser. I ended up having to use Chrome Canary, which does scroll incredibly smoothly and maintains the gestures, but is rather unstable, especially with extensions. Since I bought the machine for development, I went ahead and opened up XCode, started a new project, and got to work on something small in order to see how the machine would perform in general. XCode performed fine, although it definitely did suffer from that general system-wide lag. One nice thing was the ability to finally fit the retina iPhone simulator in the screen without scaling. I'll be returning it to the Apple Store this week and ordering a Macbook Air. I can't state strongly enough how much of a shame this is; the Retina screen is absolutely gorgeous and makes reading text a real pleasure. The rMBP is a machine that I'd definitely like to have...in the future. Further releases of the machine will make it hard to beat, especially once the price starts coming down a bit, but at the time, it feels too much like a machine for first-adopters. unpurposed fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 00:56
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unpurposed posted:I'll be returning it to the Apple Store this week and ordering a Macbook Air. I can state strongly enough how much of a shame this is; the Retina screen is absolutely gorgeous and makes reading text a real pleasure. The rMBP is a machine that I'd definitely like to have, in the future. Further releases of the machine will make it hard to beat, especially once the price starts coming down a bit, but at the time, it feels too much like a machine for first-adopters. Interesting, I know multiple reviews whined about lag for the 13" rMBP but I didn't know even the 15" version has similar problems. I got a Macbook Air for my next upgrade since despite not having the nice Retina IPS screen, the MBA is a really polished product after years of improvement and has a great pricepoint given the features.
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Jan 29, 2013 01:32
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My wife has a 2010 13" MBP that has been collecting dust since I got her an air. I typically connect my air to an external monitor but was considering setting up her old pro as a pseudo-desktop. If I threw an SSD and 8 gb of RAM in the machine (2.4 ghz core 2 duo, geforce 320M 256mb shared video memory) and connected to an external monitor, would it be a reasonable "mac-mini?" I really want a desktop with some barebones gaming capabilities (starcraft 3, maybe some steam games in bootcamp), but am not sure how well I could get this thing to perform. I don't want to buy upgrades without a reasonable expectation of success; I can always just sell it and use the cash to build a desktop or pick up a mini.
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Jan 29, 2013 02:01
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I still don't buy blaming the hardware for any scrolling/visual lag. The iPad with retina display has a very smooth scrolling experience (web browsing, apps, between screens), and you can't tell me that the GPU inside of it can compete with even the HD4000.
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Jan 29, 2013 02:02
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27" iMacs are finally trickling into retailers. I wish there was a BTO with a 256gig SSD. I don't want anything to do with Fusion. Having the SD reader in the back looks like a big pain. Was ANYONE complaining about iMacs being too thick? Damnitt, Apple!
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Jan 29, 2013 02:26
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Mu Zeta posted:27" iMacs are finally trickling into retailers. I wish there was a BTO with a 256gig SSD. I don't want anything to do with Fusion.
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Jan 29, 2013 02:27
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More chance of failure. I rather just have one SSD and preferably able to swap it out myself. Bringing in an iMac for repair is a terrible experience and I've done it 5 times now.
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Jan 29, 2013 02:30
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Mu Zeta posted:More chance of failure. I rather just have one SSD and preferably able to swap it out myself. Bringing in an iMac for repair is a terrible experience and I've done it 5 times now.
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Jan 29, 2013 02:56
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Because it weighs 30 pounds and it's huge. Transporting it sucks.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:07
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^^ you didn't keep the box? The store won't bring a cart out to the mall entrance for you? I feel your pain, I'm always carting 27 inchers or Mac Pros all over..Sonic Dude posted:Then take it somewhere else. I'm not sure why it has to be a terrible experience, especially if you have a backup. If you don't like the Store, there's plenty of AASPs you could take it to. Also if you feel you're getting the runaround, or they're throwing empty peanut shells at you when your back is turned, you could always complain to the manager. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 03:08
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Mu Zeta posted:Because it weighs 30 pounds and it's huge. Transporting it sucks. It's down to 21 pounds now so... you have that to look forward to.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:09
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comper posted:I still don't buy blaming the hardware for any scrolling/visual lag. The iPad with retina display has a very smooth scrolling experience (web browsing, apps, between screens), and you can't tell me that the GPU inside of it can compete with even the HD4000. I won't speak to any comparisons between the iPad and rMBP internals, but from my time with the laptop, it really felt like a software issue to me. Chrome's scrolling performance was so choppy that I found it really distracting. Switching to a nightly build, all the choppiness disappeared and it felt incredibly smooth. I might venture a guess that OSX just isn't completely up to the task of handling the rMBP HiDPI mode yet.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:16
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ndrake posted:My wife has a 2010 13" MBP that has been collecting dust since I got her an air. I typically connect my air to an external monitor but was considering setting up her old pro as a pseudo-desktop. If I threw an SSD and 8 gb of RAM in the machine (2.4 ghz core 2 duo, geforce 320M 256mb shared video memory) and connected to an external monitor, would it be a reasonable "mac-mini?" I really want a desktop with some barebones gaming capabilities (starcraft 3, maybe some steam games in bootcamp), but am not sure how well I could get this thing to perform. I don't want to buy upgrades without a reasonable expectation of success; I can always just sell it and use the cash to build a desktop or pick up a mini.
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Jan 29, 2013 03:42
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comper posted:I still don't buy blaming the hardware for any scrolling/visual lag. The iPad with retina display has a very smooth scrolling experience (web browsing, apps, between screens), and you can't tell me that the GPU inside of it can compete with even the HD4000. You do realize that those are two completely different architectures with two completely different instruction sets right? 
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Jan 29, 2013 03:50
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etalian posted:Interesting, I know multiple reviews whined about lag for the 13" rMBP but I didn't know even the 15" version has similar problems. I have almost no complaints about the scrolling, it's the window resizing - which to be fair isn't very fast/smooth on my iMac at work but it's a slideshow on my 13". It doesn't really bother me since I don't do it often but it's noticeable.
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Jan 29, 2013 04:13
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comper posted:I still don't buy blaming the hardware for any scrolling/visual lag. The iPad with retina display has a very smooth scrolling experience (web browsing, apps, between screens), and you can't tell me that the GPU inside of it can compete with even the HD4000. The rMBPs, by comparison, are doing resolution scaling so that, while the resolution (by default) appears to be the same as , in fact you're getting much higher pixel density, which stresses the CPU (single-threaded performance) and to a lesser-extent the GPU. If you go to higher scaled resolutions (such as 1680x1050), pixel density increases even further, putting even more strain on the CPU and GPU. Part of it is software optimization (hence why Apple's native apps run smoother generally), but part of it is simply the performance limitations of the CPU and GPU. japtor posted:Well it'd be a reasonable 2010 Mac mini...which isn't so hot when I think you could probably sell it and get a much better 2011 or 2012 mini with the funds (well the IGP on the 2011 would be a push vs the 320M). Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 04:16
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unpurposed posted:I won't speak to any comparisons between the iPad and rMBP internals, but from my time with the laptop, it really felt like a software issue to me. Chrome's scrolling performance was so choppy that I found it really distracting. Switching to a nightly build, all the choppiness disappeared and it felt incredibly smooth. I might venture a guess that OSX just isn't completely up to the task of handling the rMBP HiDPI mode yet. So if using a different web browser fixed the problem, why are you returning the computer? Problems with other applications?
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Jan 29, 2013 04:52
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SourKraut posted:I'd imagine the 2011 with the Radeon 6630 would probably suit his needs fine though? I've been considering the 2011 Mac Mini with the Radeon 6630 for a basic gaming machine myself, but haven't been able to find how well it'd do for older games at either 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 (I have monitors at both resolutions that I could use with it). (With how little I game on mine I'd rather have gotten the 2012 for the quad CPU and USB 3 than the 2011 Radeon model I got...of course it was 2011 at the time so it's not like I had the option  )
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Jan 29, 2013 05:06
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japtor posted:Well it'd be a reasonable 2010 Mac mini...which isn't so hot when I think you could probably sell it and get a much better 2011 or 2012 mini with the funds (well the IGP on the 2011 would be a push vs the 320M). SourKraut posted:I'd imagine the 2011 with the Radeon 6630 would probably suit his needs fine though? I've been considering the 2011 Mac Mini with the Radeon 6630 for a basic gaming machine myself, but haven't been able to find how well it'd do for older games at either 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 (I have monitors at both resolutions that I could use with it). Thanks. I wasn't sure how much better (if at all) the 2011 mini would be, and its dedicated video seems to outperform the integrated graphics in the 2012 model. I could probably sell the pro for 400-450; it sounds like I'd be better off paying the difference for an older mini. I think I'm in the same boat as SourKraut, even if I were to make that change I don't know how well the mini would serve, and even for simple games I may be better off just building a small hackintosh, I just like having apple products that just work.
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Jan 29, 2013 05:22
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japtor posted:Ehh, it's just something that'll vary wildly depending on the games, resolution, detail/effect levels, desired performance, etc. Ultimately they're all low end parts so use that as your reference point...and/or just check out notebookcheck.net. Yeah, I'd mostly be doing some very occasional WoW and otherwise some older Source games like Day of Defeat, but I'd also be using it for AutoCAD and Photoshop. I've been debating between picking up one of the 2011 i7 Mac Mini's when available, or just going with a 2011 i7 21.5 iMac.
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Jan 29, 2013 05:33
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If you already have a decent monitor and need to save space, go for the Mini. (smaller footprint) If you want to have up to 32 GB of RAM, and want to drive a large second monitor, go for the iMac. (more RAM slots, more powerful GPU, twice the VRAM)
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Jan 29, 2013 05:55
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ratbert90 posted:You do realize that those are two completely different architectures with two completely different instruction sets right? Yes. All I'm saying is that an rMBP with an i7 processor really shouldn't be that stressed even with the scaling going on in the background. Games like Diablo 3 and Walking Dead are playable around 30fps even at full resolution. They are not demanding games, but they are definitely more intense than scrolling through a browser or opening up your app shortcut in the dock. I could be totally wrong, I don't know all the technical things, but I just have a hard time believing that it's really just a hardware limitation. e: I guess that's a bad argument because in the games the 650M kicks in. Still, the i7/HD4000 shouldn't bottleneck the performance for simple tasks. comper fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 06:47
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comper posted:e: I guess that's a bad argument because in the games the 650M kicks in. Still, the i7/HD4000 shouldn't bottleneck the performance for simple tasks. It's more a matter of the Retina scaling being a somewhat intensive process, I imagine the issue will go away as integrated graphics improves in each yearly refresh.
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Jan 29, 2013 07:02
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etalian posted:I wouldn't wish a 17" laptop on anyone, it defeats the whole purpose of having a laptop. I already like my 17" MBP. For me the purpose of a laptop is to have something I can carry around that comes as close as possible to the experience I have at home, which fully applies to that one and would also apply to a much lighter 17" rMBP. Nobody is forcing you to buy one.
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Jan 29, 2013 07:54
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flavor posted:I already like my 17" MBP. For me the purpose of a laptop is to have something I can carry around that comes as close as possible to the experience I have at home, which fully applies to that one and would also apply to a much lighter 17" rMBP. Nobody is forcing you to buy one. You should do this if you want to replicate the same computing experience you have at home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
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Jan 29, 2013 08:36
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etalian posted:You should do this if you want to replicate the same computing experience you have at home: Hm, I'd have to bring more stuff than a single person could carry or fit into a car... but a cool video, thank you for posting it  .
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Jan 29, 2013 09:18
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etalian posted:You should do this if you want to replicate the same computing experience you have at home: 
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Jan 29, 2013 12:12
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