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In terms of P3 VS P4 characters, P3's are more generic, but they work well, plus they develop, and I did feel a connection with them by the end. However, you only really saw each character interact with two or three other characters and the MC. For example, I don't recall any sort of major interactions between Ken and Mitsuru. Meanwhile, P4's cast is more memorable, but they're incredibly static, and I didn't really feel like Yukiko and Noato had much character to them, plus Rise is... ugh. But unlike P3, each character in P4 has a relationship of some sort with every other character. For example, Yosuke bickered with Chie, Yosuke had a passing interest in Yukiko, Yosuke was a huge fan of Rise, etc. Whereas in P3, you had something like Yukari bickers with Junpei and Yukari feels a bond with Mitsuru, and that's all for her. In terms of gameplay, I feel that P3 actually does the whole scheduled dungeon-crawling set-up much better. For one, dungeons only took the place of smaller activities like studying and what-not. That way, you never feel pressured to complete a series of floors in one night, and you have an incentive to pace yourself. Whereas in P4 it's either go inside the TV, or S.Link. And since the dungeons only had an average of ten floors, and because they removed the tiredness system, you had very little reason to not just clear the dungeon in one go. Though, P4 does actually have dungeon variety, but because, as I mentioned earlier, the dungeons are around ten floors each, it never really felt like you were building on to something. But with one dungeon in P3, and the fact that you had to clear an increasing number of floors in Tartarus, I felt like I was getting stronger, and that I was building onto something. I was able to clear more floors every night, and I was slowly making my way up to the top of Tartarus, which added a lot of build-up to the end, leading to the next topic: P3 had great build-up. From the start, you had a clear goal to reach to top of Tartarus, and you learn of the big bad a little more than half-way through, if I remember correctly. Once I finally made it to the top and went through the boss gauntlet, I knew I was at the climax of the adventure. P4 has poo poo build-up. Yeah, you have "catch the mysterious killer!" but aside from that, I never felt like the plot was going anywhere. No progress is made in identifying the killer until near the end of the game, and even then, the guy just sort of loses his cool over very little hard evidence and reveals it himself. Plus, the game pulls the "THIS is the real killer! It's all over!" schtick FOUR times! I mean, none of them were even very convincing, and this is only hurt by the fact that, I at lest, never felt a climax with P4. I never felt build-up since every goal suddenly appeared and was then quickly reached, and every villain appears and is quickly defeated. And don't get me started on the final stretch of the game. The end game comes up out of nowhere, over something that didn't even seem relevant, and then leaves just as quickly. It's one of the most unsatisfying end-games I've ever played though. Don't get me wrong, I love P4 to death, but it's plot just sort of stands there, twitches occasionally, and the ends. Granted, the epilogue in P4G adds a lot, but it doesn't fix the build-up issues I felt. There is one more gripe I have, but it only has to do with P4, and that's that I felt like it side-stepped a lot of the issues it brought up. Kanji is introduced to make you believe he's a boy who's discovering that he's gay in a world where that's still an issue, yet it becomes he's man who just happens to like knitting, which is something men don't usually do. Naoto is introduced to be a female who identifies as a male, but that just becomes her believing society won't accept a female detective. Both are valid issues, but it felt like Atlus wanted to intrigue people with major issues in today's society, but didn't actually want to tackle those issues, so they replaced them with lesser issues, or something of the sort. Also, I'm not really big on this subject, so I don't know how much of an issue this is, but is the cross dressing pageant offensive? Again, don't stone me, since I know very little about transgender issues and what-not, but does that little arc poke fun at people who cross-dress? That's not to say that the people in the audience, or the cast participating didn't react how you'd expect a high school to react, but the fact that they have people cross-dressing, and then people in the audience calling it wrong just seems... inappropriate. Maybe the issue is averted with Teddie's roll, but I wouldn't know. That was just something that bothered me. Wow, that post became a lot bigger than I had anticipated...
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Jan 29, 2013 06:31
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The audience and Yosuke going "What the hell is wrong with you?" if you play the MC as really into it are a bit weird, yeah, but I didn't mind the crossdressing pageant too much. Teddie was really into it, and you also have the option to play the MC as not just going with it but really enjoying it, which was nice even if they probably only threw those options in as a gag, and Yosuke finding it all weird fit with his character, it wasn't like he went on a five minute rant about how they were all going to burn in the fires of hell for putting on a dress once or something. It was dumb but I wouldn't really call it offensive, but whether or not something's offensive or 'wrong' is up for an individual to decide, there isn't some sort of council that convenes and decides what is and isn't offensive.
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Jan 29, 2013 06:36
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Drag shows tend to be played more for the fun of it than seriously trying to convince people you look like the opposite gender, so the reaction the students had to the cast (barring teddie) wasn't that bad, at least in my opinion. And for the most part, Drag and Transgenderism aren't really linked at all, if that's what you were wondering/getting at (my apologies if I just read it wrong) Edit: And I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I was completely fine with how Kanji's arc turned out (not going to touch Naotos even though I personally don't think it was that bad either, I just don't believe I know enough about that subject to have an informed opinion) because it is true that a ton of straight guys feel like they're "gay" or "weird" because they like feminine things or that feminine things are inherently gay and that's pretty hosed up, so it's nice to see a message basically saying it's ok to like feminine things without being queeny or whatever. As a gay guy though, I would have loved if they did include an actual gay character, or if they did end up doing that with Kanji, I would have been completely fine with it, but as it stands I never really saw his arc as problematic personally. Ibram Gaunt fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 29, 2013 |
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Jan 29, 2013 06:37
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Dorroile posted:The fact that the choice even exists just kind of ruins everything. Like getting it on with Ken in P3P. You cannot compare convincing someone to be good (Albeit very hamfistedly) to an literal child falling for you and you having an actual relationship with him, that's just not even remotely comparable.
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Jan 29, 2013 06:38
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Guys, you were right, Yosuke isn't the worst character! Marie is!  I forgot she existed...
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Jan 29, 2013 07:43
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I'll admit it's been a while since I played P3P, but isn't the Ken social link very much the MC just going on a few harmless "dates" with a kid - much in a same way a big sister might take her little brother somewhere - and helps him get over his issues?
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Jan 29, 2013 09:45
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Endorph posted:The audience and Yosuke going "What the hell is wrong with you?" if you play the MC as really into it are a bit weird, yeah, but I didn't mind the crossdressing pageant too much. Teddie was really into it, and you also have the option to play the MC as not just going with it but really enjoying it, which was nice even if they probably only threw those options in as a gag, and Yosuke finding it all weird fit with his character, it wasn't like he went on a five minute rant about how they were all going to burn in the fires of hell for putting on a dress once or something. I don't really think the option to be enthused about it is intended as a gag so much as it is the option to deliberately troll Yosuke, because the MC has an ice-cool demeanor and cast-iron balls and is confident enough in himself and his sexuality to appear in something like the crossdressing pageant in front of the whole school. The characterization of him as someone who intentionally provokes a rise out of less calm and self-assured people is consistent through P4 Arena (and I think the anime, though I haven't seen it) and neurotic, self-doubting Yosuke is the prime target.
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Jan 29, 2013 09:55
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Fightest posted:I'll admit it's been a while since I played P3P, but isn't the Ken social link very much the MC just going on a few harmless "dates" with a kid - much in a same way a big sister might take her little brother somewhere - and helps him get over his issues? Near the end of the link you get the option to be his girlfriend for real.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:08
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Zombies' Downfall posted:The characterization of him as someone who intentionally provokes a rise out of less calm and self-assured people is consistent through P4 Arena (and I think the anime, though I haven't seen it) and neurotic, self-doubting Yosuke is the prime target. I can't speak for Arena because I'm Australian, but that is about right for his anime adaptation. The anime's characterization of him I think was entirely based around being able to do all the hilarious options and not have it seem out of character.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:08
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Near the end of the link you get the option to be his girlfriend for real. Oh, okay, I guess I did blank a few things. Yeah, that is a bit weird, no two ways about it. But even that doesn't make Ken the worst character, it just makes one wonder where the writers were going with that.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:34
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They probably really just hate Ken, considering the ending. Now, Marie is pointless and I hate her.
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Jan 29, 2013 10:38
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I don't mind Marie's role in the Winter months, since that was new content entirely and they worked in her presence into that segment quite well. But her S. Link...oh man, I did not like that. Her events are something like 2-3 times longer than normal S. Link events, which was a very transparent excuse to have her character actually interact with the cast and appear more important. What they should have done is dynamically worked her into the story outside of her link so that her introduction would feel more natural. Yes up until January she's just "another S. Link" like Temperance or Death or whatever, but come on everyone knew she was being built up to be this great big new addition to the story, and the approach they took to have her there from the beginning was lazy in my opinion.
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Jan 29, 2013 14:48
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Nate RFB posted:I don't mind Marie's role in the Winter months, since that was new content entirely and they worked in her presence into that segment quite well. But her S. Link...oh man, I did not like that. Her events are something like 2-3 times longer than normal S. Link events, which was a very transparent excuse to have her character actually interact with the cast and appear more important. What they should have done is dynamically worked her into the story outside of her link so that her introduction would feel more natural. Yes up until January she's just "another S. Link" like Temperance or Death or whatever, but come on everyone knew she was being built up to be this great big new addition to the story, and the approach they took to have her there from the beginning was lazy in my opinion. Yeah, she is completely disconnected from the story until she butts in in the most Mary Sue-ish way possible. She just reeks of Deviantart OC plz do not steal xoxo. And the poems. The motherfucking poems.
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Jan 29, 2013 16:52
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Veks posted:Yeah, she is completely disconnected from the story until she butts in in the most Mary Sue-ish way possible. She just reeks of Deviantart OC plz do not steal xoxo. And then you get to her dungeon. Seriously, gently caress everything about and surrounding Marie.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:19
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I used to know a Marie. My roommate dated this girl named Meg who dressed, talked, and acted like Marie to a T. Deviantart, check. Poetry, check. She had a "webcomic" that was an anime version of her life. Like a diary but the kind of diary written b someone who thinks everything in their life is so wacky and random that she should share it with the world. So imagine my surprise when she posts a comic about her and said roommate fooling around on a replica of my couch in a replica of my living room. I would ignore her link entirely out of principle if I weren't minmaxing this run.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:24
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Marie is absolutely worth putting up with to get the epilogue. Like, it's not even up for debate.ZenMasterBullshit posted:And then you get to her dungeon.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:26
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Nate RFB posted:Marie is absolutely worth putting up with to get the epilogue. Like, it's not even up for debate. Terrible gimmick dungeon and okay ending for having to put up with a loving terrible character. 0/10 would have actually preferred Metis.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:28
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People sure do feel strongly about their fake video game girlfriends in the Megami Tensei Megathread.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:09
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I honestly don't get the Marie hate, and this is coming from someone who thought she'd be beyond awful from her announcement all the way up to getting Golden. She wasn't like great or anything but she wasn't offensively bad like Metis.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:13
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Nate RFB posted:People sure do feel strongly about their fake video game girlfriends in the Megami Tensei Megathread. The amount of hyperbole over the past couple pages in general has been pretty ridiculous, honestly.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:13
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King of Solomon posted:The amount of hyperbole over the past couple pages in general has been pretty ridiculous, honestly. Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:21
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. No one hates Megaten as much as Megaten fans.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:27
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Megami Tensei Megathread Mk.III: Every game is the worst game in the series.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:29
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Strange Quark posted:No one hates Megaten as much as Megaten fans. Nobody else cares enough. 
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Jan 29, 2013 21:35
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Nate RFB posted:People sure do feel strongly about their fake video game girlfriends in the Megami Tensei Megathread. I too am surprised that people have strong feelings about the video game girlfriends in the popular dating sims Persona 3 and Persona 4.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:44
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We should all just stop playing video games forever if it means I can't talk about my anime girlfriends.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:56
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. Yep, you got us, gently caress these games forever.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:30
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I don't even care about SMT games, i'm just here to cause chaos and infighting. I'm actually Nyarlathotep IRL.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:31
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. Who honestly could like them? They're stupid and grindy and just boring most of the time. I only post here for the occasional bout of Teddy-related puns.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:38
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Who honestly could like them? They're stupid and grindy and just boring most of the time. You mean to say they're .... un-bear-able?
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Jan 29, 2013 22:40
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. I like them, I just wish people talked less about cartoon girls 
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Jan 29, 2013 22:56
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El Belmondo posted:I like them, I just wish people talked less about cartoon girls If the past couple pages are any indication (and any other time Persona comes up, honestly), talking about cartoon boys isn't much better.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:58
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Dorroile posted:I don't even care about SMT games, i'm just here to cause chaos and infighting. I'm actually Nyarlathotep IRL. Please tell us when you plan to come back from your shadow dimension so we'll know when Persona 5 is coming out.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:59
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Yeah, discussing something obviously means you hate that something, obviously.
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Jan 30, 2013 00:46
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. 
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Jan 30, 2013 01:07
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So did I just completely gently caress up? Second group of exams are coming in P3, just beat Hierophant and Lovers. And well, I have all of one SLink point in the Chariot, and nothing in Strength. So I assume I won't get invited to the summer competition, which means I won't meet the guy who gives the Star Arcana, correct? Am I also hosed out of finishing the Chariot/Strength arcanas now? Or can I still go back and do those at a later date. I kept putting them off because I needed Personas with magical ability not strike attacks, didn't think I'd need to have them leveled up this fast.
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Jan 30, 2013 04:50
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Rookersh posted:So did I just completely gently caress up? You always get invited to the summer comp, its part of the game's story.
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Jan 30, 2013 05:01
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New SMT4 update: If you get wiped out you can spend Play Coins to revive the party and try again. You can also use whatever the ingame currency is, but honestly you'd probably be better off saving that for actually buying stuff in the game. I haven't seen the scans so I'm not entirely sure if you just get to retry the battle or if you get kicked back to a healing spot or a save point or what. Also, um, it uses the Press Turn System, which I think everyone had already figured out by now.
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Jan 30, 2013 08:45
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RME posted:Sometimes I read this thread and wonder if anyone actually likes SMT games. Critical discussions of games you really enjoy can be fun and interesting, too.
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Jan 30, 2013 08:56
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TurnipFritter posted:New SMT4 update: If you get wiped out you can spend Play Coins to revive the party and try again. That's.. actually a pretty decent idea. Better than blowing them on Puzzle Swap pieces, anyway.
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Jan 30, 2013 08:58
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