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LightsGameraAction posted:I lived through it but it's been a while and I've forgotten some of the details. I'm just curious though, what was the booking that led to the main event of Wrestlemania 2000? As in how did the "McMahon in every corner" thing start and how did every guy get into the match? - Rock won the Rumble and challenged HHH for the tile. Vince backed him up because he was all anti-HHH/Steph. - Big Show (managed by Shane) appealed his elimination from the Rumble, presenting video evidence where Rock's feet hit the ground before his own. HHH used his power to add him to the 'Mania title match. - They did this Triple Threat Wrestlemania main event a week early on Raw, which HHH won. Linda McMahon then came out and said they would do the match again in six days at Wrestlemania, but this time it would be a Fatal Four Way elimination with.... and then came the dramatic reveal with the recently retired Foley, who Linda agreed to accompany to the ring at the show. e: bah, beaten
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Jan 29, 2013 19:34
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triplexpac posted:
Thanks. It's funny because looking back now I didn't think it was that odd considering they've done triple threats at Mania since then, but then I realized that back then they only had the one world title and it became a lot stranger to me. This was still during Russo right? I remember XV being the height of Russo-booking.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:38
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LightsGameraAction posted:This was still during Russo right? I remember XV being the height of Russo-booking. Russo left the year prior, but I'm not sure how much of his story/roadmap they were following at this point.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:40
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Russo and Ferrara went to WCW in the fall of '99, but I believe they still followed the outline of Russo'z plans for a while after that.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:41
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LightsGameraAction posted:Thanks. It's funny because looking back now I didn't think it was that odd considering they've done triple threats at Mania since then, but then I realized that back then they only had the one world title and it became a lot stranger to me. Russo left in fall 1999. They made a late call to hold Triple H/Rock off a month for Stone Cold involvement to try and pop two gigantic buyrates out of the program instead of one. They succeeded in doing that, I think Backlash 2000 is the second highest "B" PPV (and not by a little) ever after the Invasion show in 2001.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:42
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LightsGameraAction posted:Thanks. It's funny because looking back now I didn't think it was that odd considering they've done triple threats at Mania since then, but then I realized that back then they only had the one world title and it became a lot stranger to me. 
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Jan 29, 2013 19:58
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Minidust posted:Even stranger was that the only 1-on-1 match for the entire show was Terri Runnels vs. The Kat And even they had Moolah and Mae Young in their corners I remember reading that every single match was multi-man and not believing I didn't notice that before. Watching it again though, it doesn't really come off like a cluttered PPV. It doesn't even feel half as over-booked as Wrestlemania XX was if you ask me.
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Jan 29, 2013 20:04
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LightsGameraAction posted:And even they had Moolah and Mae Young in their corners  I'm pretty sure everyone involved has realized that was just too much.That one actually had TWO four-way tag title matches on it, with zero heat between them. It was awkward watching Too Cool dance in front of an apathetic crowd. 
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Jan 29, 2013 20:38
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triplexpac posted:Ok I watched this fairly recently so here goes (I may get some things wrong, it's a bit fuzzy): You know, booking-wise, this seems pretty sharp, and they tied everything together fairly closely, but it ended up being too confusing, because you have four people with four different agendas, and you're asking fans to take sides with either (or both?) of the two faces, when in reality, fans would have the ability to pick one of the four to root for. The only time WrestleMania worked with a main event involving more than two people was HHH vs. Shawn Michaels vs. a blurred out person no one remembers. The only reason that worked was because Shawn and HHH had been going at it for so long. They each saw WM as the chance to finally put the other away. Complicating their showdown was the Royal Rumble winner, who I don't remember. He was a real underdog, and everyone was sure he'd just be swept aside, or possibly challenge for the other title. Instead, he, whoever he was, wanted THAT belt, and wanted both Hunter and Shawn, two of the top guys in the business, to accept him as an equal threat - he (who WAS he?) wanted to force his way into the big picture. And it worked. Vince Russo did a semi-decent job of building some decent match-ups while he was in charge of the WWF, but then, he'd try to do something nonsensical, just to shake things up, and you'd have a four-way title match at the biggest show of the year involving people who had no real issue, because it was a SWERVE!
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Jan 29, 2013 21:03
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They should have had the Foley/Triple H title vs. career Cell match at Mania, in retrospect, but at the time that was just a bridge program to get Hunter over as a heel.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:09
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jeffersonlives posted:They should have had the Foley/Triple H title vs. career Cell match at Mania, in retrospect, but at the time that was just a bridge program to get Hunter over as a heel. Was it the Cell match or the street fight at Mania where Triple H's leg basically exploded?
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Jan 29, 2013 21:13
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LightsGameraAction posted:Was it the Cell match or the street fight at Mania where Triple H's leg basically exploded? It was the street fight. I think a piece of the pallet goes into his leg.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:14
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Yeah that street fight is one of my favourite matches of all time.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:36
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sportsgenius86 posted:It was the street fight. I think a piece of the pallet goes into his leg. It was a nail sticking out of the pallet.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:53
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Gonzo McFee posted:You're lucky you put that in quotation marks or I would come down your internet and sing The Internationale at you till your ears bleed. Just to be clear, I completely pro union and pro WWE getting what's coming to it, the scummy, disgusting business it is.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:09
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While we're talking about Wrestlemania 2000, does anyone else remember the "Wrestlemania All Day Long" thing they did? You paid like $10 extra and got 8 hours of past Wrestlemanias before the show. It was awesome.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:12
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Thauros posted:Russo and Ferrara went to WCW in the fall of '99, but I believe they still followed the outline of Russo'z plans for a while after that. Many of Russo's storylines existed only in his own head, so much of what was happening in the late summer of 99 had to be rewritten on the fly.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:18
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Vince Russo should be locked away in a Siberian gulag.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:22
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Gonz posted:Vince Russo should be locked away in a Siberian gulag. I want Vince Russo to re-start Ring of Glory and make it an Evangelical Wrestling Tour. Actually no, that might make him even more wealthy than he's already become from being the WORST WRESTLING WRITER.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:29
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MassRayPer posted:Many of Russo's storylines existed only in his own head, so much of what was happening in the late summer of 99 had to be rewritten on the fly. I welcome anyone who would dispute this to watch Wrestlemania XV again. Seriously. It's supposed to be the most planned-for event of the year and it felt like it was being re-written between matches.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:30
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It's not like Russo had full reign over Mania XV though. Everything he did was working with JR and Vince
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Jan 29, 2013 22:34
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Like many people who find success in their field, Russo needs to be around the right people to rein him in and provide a healthy filter for his ideas. He's like a Prince or George Lucas in that regard. Or I dunno, maybe he just got lucky for a few years.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:34
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Minidust posted:Like many people who find success in their field, Russo needs to be around the right people to rein him in and provide a healthy filter for his ideas. He's like a Prince or George Lucas in that regard. Or I dunno, maybe he just got lucky for a few years. That's essentially what Cornette said about him too. Russo just scatterguns ideas, he needs someone to filter out the gold from the poo poo.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:41
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The strange this is that Russo was consistently dreadful for his whole career. He started doing a dirtsheet/ Radio show that was sub lords of pain, he ended up working for WWE magazine which under his reign was terrible, He ended up becoming the booker for Raw and while we look back fondly on those years everything that didn't involve a main event star was fairly terrible but fit into their new theme of a show and then he went to WCW and was dreadful there to a new level because for the first time he was given a free reign and wasn't being filtered. Then he decided that he was a Christian now and he was forgiven, writing two terrible autobiographies in which he blamed everyone else for everything he did and pretended to be holier than though while still writing horrible, racist, sexist poo poo for TNA and his two show promotion Ring of Glory. In a way it's sort of admirable. He's made an entire career out of being an obnoxious, over confident, delusional fuckwit of no discernible talent.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:54
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I haven't watched it since it originally aired so I have no idea when I'd think of it as an adult, but I loved '98-'99 WWF and I suppose he does deserve some credit for the good from that period as well as the bad. He obviously ran out of ideas quick and he should've never been placed in a creative position without heavy oversight, but it's not like he was totally incompetent before leaving for WCW.
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Jan 29, 2013 23:10
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Thauros posted:I haven't watched it since it originally aired so I have no idea when I'd think of it as an adult, but I loved '98-'99 WWF One thing I noticed about these years is that they are very into having cliffhangers at the end of almost every show and PPV. I don't know who was responsible for that, but they really did a good job of keeping you hooked, making you want to see how things play out. I think this is because they booked with more long term planning (at least in the main events). You can have the heel lay out the face at the end of the show if you know where you're going down the line, how the good guy is going to get his revenge. If you are changing plans all the time, it's safer to just have the good guy win and send everyone home happy so you don't upset anyone.
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Jan 29, 2013 23:21
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triplexpac posted:While we're talking about Wrestlemania 2000, does anyone else remember the "Wrestlemania All Day Long" thing they did? You paid like $10 extra and got 8 hours of past Wrestlemanias before the show. It was awesome. I have that on tape somewhere. The content was great but it had Michael Cole during his second worst period as the announcer and hoo boy...
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Jan 29, 2013 23:24
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We'll have the new WWE champion on qvc or soemthing after the show.... Erm.. If we have a new champion (they had a new champion)
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Jan 29, 2013 23:28
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The Croc posted:We'll have the new WWE champion on qvc or soemthing after the show.... Erm.. If we have a new champion (they had a new champion) That would be kind of funny. The Rock in his prime wins his title and has to go on QVC to sell things as part of a promotion. "I guess I'll need some cocaine for this!" And we get the Rock hustling to move product cutting promos on grills, computers, the models and people full on.
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Jan 29, 2013 23:47
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Gatts posted:That would be kind of funny. The Rock in his prime wins his title and has to go on QVC to sell things as part of a promotion. The joke was that Cole gave away the title change.
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Jan 29, 2013 23:58
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Gatts posted:That would be kind of funny. The Rock in his prime wins his title and has to go on QVC to sell things as part of a promotion. "And The Rock has a 3 disc DVD-set featuring the best of Dusty Rhodes... In fact, The Rock's even gonna buy one of these for himself, for only 39.99... hell, for the MILLIONS.... and MILLIONS of The Rock's customers, I'll drop it to 19.99, and anyone who says 20 can check directly into the Smackdown Bargain Bin!"
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Jan 30, 2013 00:04
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Red posted:The joke was that Cole gave away the title change. Man, Cole in that November 1998 - WrestleMania XV period was so bad. He got a little better when JR was able to return to work (I think in January) and started feeding him lines from backstage, but the commentary at Rock Bottom is so astonishingly terrible.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:05
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Don't forget that odd short stint that JR had as Dr. Death's heel manager during that same period as well.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:07
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It did lead to the hilarious mini booth JR rigged up in front of the regular announce desk on an episode of raw.... But yeah Heel JR was terrible, who really wants to boo him?
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Jan 30, 2013 01:10
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The Croc posted:It did lead to the hilarious mini booth JR rigged up in front of the regular announce desk on an episode of raw.... But yeah Heel JR was terrible, who really wants to boo him? Vince McMahon.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:14
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One thing that Russo did very well was making the mid-card seem like it mattered. Everyone on the roster was given a purpose. Sure, most of the booking was illogical but everyone was recognizable by even the casual fan. You would never have guys like Tyson Kidd or Curt Hawkins just there for no reason. Effort was put into talent like The Brood, Val Venis, The Godfather, etc. You did get garbage mixed in like Meat and Beaver Cleavage, but even they were given a story.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:20
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budreck posted:One thing that Russo did very well was making the mid-card seem like it mattered. Chris Kreski did a much better job.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:27
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Timby posted:Man, Cole in that November 1998 - WrestleMania XV period was so bad. He got a little better when JR was able to return to work (I think in January) and started feeding him lines from backstage, but the commentary at Rock Bottom is so astonishingly terrible. Other than Tony on WCW the worst thing about Foleys title win is that JR was not the one announcing it. It was a great moment but would have been better with him.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:34
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:Chris Kreski did a much better job. The majority of the Attitude era mid-card was established before Kreski took the reigns. As much as I respect Kreski for actually using storyboards, I'm not sure if he was involved with mid-card characters at all. Too Cool/Rikishi and the Hurricane are the only memorable guys who get over huge after Russo left and before Stephanie took the reigns. Hurricane MIGHT be another.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:42
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According to WIkipedia, Kreski was in charge of creative from October '99 to November '00, and he stuck around after Stephanie took over until sometime in'02. I'd say he did a hell of a job with the midcard, especially getting over the tag division. That might be the best year the tag division has ever had.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:50
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