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Mornacale posted:(Unless they have good enough PR to spin it and get a bunch of loving assholes to throw an Appreciation Day in their honor.) There are probably people out there who will interpret the restaurant's actions as heroic resistance to Obummer so yeah, it could be a concern. Oh, a small side-note: a cousin who's been posting a lot of crap political images on Facebook apparently got his account hacked and it's been spewing ad spam almost nonstop. Feels...right somehow. swiss_army_chainsaw fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 00:08
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darthbob88 posted:Probably, yeah. DoL on the subject. Simplest answer I suppose would be to tell the boss that they'll trade tips for a $5/hr raise plus the Obamacare benefits. That, those links, and asking where Obamacare says they can't take tips should shut him up a bit. The only possible issue I have with this is that the restaurant could decide to fire the troublemaker instead of paying. I mean, it could/would end up worse for them, since it seems like it would open them up to a lawsuit. But would the friend find/get a lawyer to fight it? I mean...I think it's bullshit and she should fight it, but it may cost her the job. The whole "less than minimum wage" thing drives me nuts. And I thought it was "half" of minimum wage? Because my fiancee makes like 2.80 or something, which isn't half of minimum wage anymore.
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Jan 31, 2013 00:36
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Asked in the image request thread as well, but does anyone have that image of the guy basically saying he isn't going to tip because Obamacare? Snowglobe of Doom found this one but I thought there was a different one that specifically mentioned Obamacare too.
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Jan 31, 2013 00:37
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constantIllusion posted:Spitefulness must be a wonderful drug. In the conservative mind, life is a zero sum game.
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Jan 31, 2013 00:47
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Asked in the image request thread as well, but does anyone have that image of the guy basically saying he isn't going to tip because Obamacare? Snowglobe of Doom found this one but I thought there was a different one that specifically mentioned Obamacare too. I've never worked in the food industry, but I wish I could explain to these people that if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out for dinner.
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Jan 31, 2013 00:49
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Let's change things up a bit. Found this while trawling the "gently caress Yeah Marxism-Leninism" Tumblr:  It hyperlinks to this: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/MLKconExp.html Probably just a bunch of poo poo, but does anyone have proof?
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Jan 31, 2013 00:52
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Actually I think that's true. edit: Not the media bit, but the lawsuit bit. nsaP fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 00:58
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Gen. Ripper posted:Let's change things up a bit. http://www.nytimes.com/1999/12/09/us/memphis-jury-sees-conspiracy-in-martin-luther-king-s-killing.html As far as what a civil trial "proves," ianal and all that but probably not a whole lot.
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Jan 31, 2013 01:10
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vyelkin fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Jan 31, 2013 01:47
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vyelkin posted:Someone on my facebook posted this article: The tip-off that the article is complete bullshit is in the second paragraph. Forbes posted:The systematic failure by Keynesian economists and pundits to distinguish between consuming and producing value is the single most damaging fallacy in popular economic thinking. I can't even begin to say how stupid of a sentence this is. It's actually quite hilarious and ironic because the economic model that he is pushing (supply side) IS the most damaging fallacy in popular economic theory.
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Jan 31, 2013 02:02
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Asked in the image request thread as well, but does anyone have that image of the guy basically saying he isn't going to tip because Obamacare? Snowglobe of Doom found this one but I thought there was a different one that specifically mentioned Obamacare too. This one happened, I poo poo you not, in San Francisco of all places.
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Jan 31, 2013 02:03
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swiss_army_chainsaw posted:This one happened, I poo poo you not, in San Francisco of all places. Huh. My grandma, who lives in Napa and who I just visited for Christmas, insisted that she didn't need to tip more than a dollar, because waitresses in San Francisco all make a hundred thousand a year, and that they're doing better than she is (she's a millionaire). If I didn't know that she has a pathological fear of all computers, I would think that was hers.
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Jan 31, 2013 02:17
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XyloJW posted:I haven't tried this, but I think a good response to "Statistics suck, let me tell you another anecdote" is to respond with your own completely contradictory anecdote. "I have a friend who lives in UK and UHS saved his life." Seems like doing that would show someone how frustrating stupid anecdotes are. I can now actually fight anecdotal with anecdotal. I hear stupid UHC stuff and I now get to respond with the fact that the bottom dollar was more important than my 10 week pre-mature twins. They are fine, but they did some stupid poo poo like move them to another hospital right after they were born. That poo poo causes brain bleeds that leads to CP.
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Jan 31, 2013 02:20
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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XyloJW posted:Huh. My grandma, who lives in Napa and who I just visited for Christmas, insisted that she didn't need to tip more than a dollar, because waitresses in San Francisco all make a hundred thousand a year, and that they're doing better than she is (she's a millionaire). Well they don't make a hundred thousand a year, but at least in California we do NOT have a tip credit wage. So at the very least, they're making the same minimum wage as any other industry. It's still poo poo, but at least it's $8.00 worth of poo poo instead of only $3.50 worth.
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Jan 31, 2013 02:43
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TerminalSaint posted:I've never worked in the food industry, but I wish I could explain to these people that if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out for dinner. Also, how disconnected from reality does a guy have to be to think that a waiter is going to read that card and actually think it's Obama's fault rather than knowing that the customer is an rear end in a top hat? I would be sorely tempted to glue the card to a sign that says, "If you have one of these, we aren't interested in serving you." (e: Except from everything I've heard, restaurant management pretty much always caves to customers who are jerks.)
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Jan 31, 2013 02:45
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swiss_army_chainsaw posted:This one happened, I poo poo you not, in San Francisco of all places. This isn't surprising. San Francisco, for all its rap as a liberal haven, is also awash with rich, young men working in the tech sector, which is the perfect habitat to spontaneously generate libertarians.
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Jan 31, 2013 03:11
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Mornacale posted:This isn't surprising. San Francisco, for all its rap as a liberal haven, is also awash with rich, young men working in the tech sector, which is the perfect habitat to spontaneously generate libertarians. What, like slime molds from primordial soup? Or more like rats from grain? 
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Jan 31, 2013 03:23
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Mornacale posted:This isn't surprising. San Francisco, for all its rap as a liberal haven, is also awash with rich, young men working in the tech sector, which is the perfect habitat to spontaneously generate libertarians. You hit the nail on the loving head there. I'm in the tech sector in the bay area, and sooooo many of my peers are libertarians. It is difficult being the only progressive individual that I know of in my field. I don't know how why it is that way, but it is a very real phenomena.
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Jan 31, 2013 03:29
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Sword of Chomsky posted:You hit the nail on the loving head there. I'm in the tech sector in the bay area, and sooooo many of my peers are libertarians. It is difficult being the only progressive individual that I know of in my field. I don't know how why it is that way, but it is a very real phenomena. My suspicion is that the reason is threefold: 1) Working in the tech field is itself a marker of privilege, since it correlates with being a man from a middle-class or better background and presently being well-off. 2) Engineers tend to have high regard for rules and rationality, less regard for emotion (and hence empathy) and subjectivity; they're naturally disposed to authoritarianism and the myth of rational actors. 3) The whole atmosphere of the field is incredibly individualistic and wealth-focused. I've known people at my company who would take part of their lunch hour every day just to go see if the CEO's car was in his parking space. People create startups with the goal of being acquired, not to own a business, and there's a heck of a lot more discussion of an IPO than a new idea to help people. (I wonder if this is because the industry really grew up as the American culture moved fully into open wealth-worship.) Sorry that this is kind of a derail.
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Jan 31, 2013 03:57
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Sword of Chomsky posted:You hit the nail on the loving head there. I'm in the tech sector in the bay area, and sooooo many of my peers are libertarians. It is difficult being the only progressive individual that I know of in my field. I don't know how why it is that way, but it is a very real phenomena. I would wager that the tech sector has a pretty strong perception of the work = results mentality because, for most of them, the work they put into college for engineering or cs comes out in a high paying job due to the high demand for those skills in a growing field. Combined with the high regard for rules and rationality Mornacale mentioned, you can get people who believe that if you take 'x' steps you get 'y' results, every time, privilege and life circumstances notwithstanding. Therefore, if you don't get 'y' results its because you did it wrong and you deserve it. If the code doesn't compile, it's programmer error, or whatever computer metaphor idk
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Jan 31, 2013 05:35
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I think that's certainly the case, compounded with plenty of blindness about the privileges they've benefited from over the course of their life or ignorance of just how much harder poverty makes things.
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Jan 31, 2013 05:55
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Mornacale posted:My suspicion is that the reason is threefold: It's not even just the tech sector. San Francisco is a relatively small city (only 800,000 people) surrounded by about 6 million suburbanites. As soon as you leave the city limits, it's just your standard poo poo Cali towns where people flee to to feel "safe."
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Jan 31, 2013 06:04
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swiss_army_chainsaw posted:It's not even just the tech sector. San Francisco is a relatively small city (only 800,000 people) surrounded by about 6 million suburbanites. As soon as you leave the city limits, it's just your standard poo poo Cali towns where people flee to to feel "safe." I would argue the towns along the Peninsula don't necessarily fit that model (most are just as socially liberal as SF as far as I can tell). But yeah, you still get the whole privileged FYGM attitude among all the techies who scoff at anyone who doesn't want to spend their lives staring at their computers all day.
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Jan 31, 2013 06:24
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DarkHorse posted:I think that's certainly the case, compounded with plenty of blindness about the privileges they've benefited from over the course of their life or ignorance of just how much harder poverty makes things. Anecdotal, but it also seems like a larger than average also have a problem with the concept of most people having less intelligence (as they measure it) than themselves. They tend to have the false conclusion that anyone, short of the severely mentally handicapped, could be intelligent if they applied themselves. This leads to the typical, "I can't stand stupid people" mentality that permeates the culture. This is, of course, all seen through their world view. Someone with musical or artistic talent might be vaguely appreciated but an inability to grasp technical nuances or struggling to remember how to use a program is deemed as "stupidity" and judged harshly. The same could be realistically said of a lot of groups, but in this case the people often times use it to justify their libertarian political beliefs. I've found that once you start breaking down that myth it can create opportunities for as softening of the most regressive opinions. Although, of course, some will agree with your premise but somehow manage not to see (or at least admit) that it invalidates the hyper individualistic core of their political foundation, but what are you going to do?
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Jan 31, 2013 06:39
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vyelkin posted:Someone on my facebook posted this article: The article there is truly strange. They quote Say's Law, and then proceed to treat supply and demand as separable concepts (in a silly way.) The diaper business example really boils down to a misleading prevarication. Well, you see, if you think about it, wages are really investment. Actually, come to think of it, all economic activity ever is investment. (Hey, that might have some relation to what that Say fellow was going on about.) The wages are wages, not investment because wages are spent entirely in the present period (actually, you can't 'save' labor at all!) Why is that distinction meaningful? Because if, at the end of the day, the business has value beyond the wages and materials and unpaid time etc. that went into it, the rents thus created are one marker that growth is occurring! Growth is value beyond the worth of everything that went in at the present time. The critical point that the author misses is that while present saving and consumption are competitive, saving is driven by anticipation of future demand. This is one of the things they hope you get out of basic microeconomics with the inane Robinson Crusoe examples. This basic confusion seems to serve the unexamined assumption that lack of investment is caused by 'uncertainty' which we probably lay at the feet of government. Heck, the closing paragraph opines that growth creates consumption and not the other way around. That's pretty funny, because that's actually a big part of communist economic thinking. See, if Say's Law is true in the trivial 1:1 supply therefore demand way, then you can centrally plan the production of set of goods X which employs the required number of people, ipso facto effective economic planning. But Say's Law isn't relevant in a vacuum separated from the forces it describes. If 50% of the US population were employed making VHS copies of Doom House, the result would not be a demand for Doom House. In fact, eventually whatever madman funded this plan would run out of cash or lose interest and 50% of US GDP would be useless and those people would be unemployed. Hey, that sounds kind of like what happens in economic bubbles. Supply and Demand mismatches creating bubbles, eh? Which leads us to ask the question: why aren't businesses hiring. Uncertainty? Well, there's plenty of that to be had, for sure. But fundamentally businesses don't invest because there isn't a perception of future consumption to induce them so to do. Some of that may be linked to fears of a fiscal european blah blah blah, but those are transient noises. The store isn't going to decline to reorder sold out shelves because they're afraid there might be another downturn in 6 months. Stuff's not selling because people aren't getting paid today, and they aren't getting paid tomorrow. Investment is impossible in that situation. Also, what's with the bizarre engineering essentialism slinging?
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Jan 31, 2013 06:56
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I had shared some meme about Sweden requiring employers give paternity leave to fathers and a friend, who is normally kind, generous and compassionate, yet is still a raging libertarian responds with "maybe this is why Sweden has 25% unemployment for workers in their 20's." Now, I'm not rising to the bait, but that's a strawman, right? What the hell does that have to do with employment?
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Jan 31, 2013 07:03
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Soonmot posted:I had shared some meme about Sweden requiring employers give paternity leave to fathers and a friend, who is normally kind, generous and compassionate, yet is still a raging libertarian responds with "maybe this is why Sweden has 25% unemployment for workers in their 20's." No one will hire young workers because they'll all just get knocked up (or get their wives knocked up) and leave for months at a time. 
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Jan 31, 2013 07:06
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ProperGanderPusher posted:I would argue the towns along the Peninsula don't necessarily fit that model (most are just as socially liberal as SF as far as I can tell). But yeah, you still get the whole privileged FYGM attitude among all the techies who scoff at anyone who doesn't want to spend their lives staring at their computers all day. Also, don't forget that a lot of the more established folks in SF fit the FYGM/"not in my back yard" mold.
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Jan 31, 2013 07:07
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Soonmot posted:I had shared some meme about Sweden requiring employers give paternity leave to fathers and a friend, who is normally kind, generous and compassionate, yet is still a raging libertarian responds with "maybe this is why Sweden has 25% unemployment for workers in their 20's." There's some decent evidence that certain policies that make leaving the workforce easier contribute to unemployment. Europe is the common example of this (in relation to the US.) In fact, the unemployment models have a place for 'government unemployment like stuff.' That being said, this probably doesn't apply, even a little bit. Really sweet unemployment insurance makes you less likely to accept a lovely job if you're out of work. Paternity leave? Heck, if anything, I suspect mandated paternity leave (and maternity leave) contribute to preventing a lot of involuntary exits from the workforce as parents see their skills go stale and their perception in the workplace suffer. That's good long term for increasing your workforce size.
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Jan 31, 2013 07:23
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Mornacale posted:2) Engineers tend to have high regard for rules and rationality, less regard for emotion (and hence empathy) and subjectivity; they're naturally disposed to authoritarianism and the myth of rational actors. Hey eff you buddy. But seriously, I think the answer is as simple as most of them just being entitled shits who actually worked hard to get where they are, turning them into huge entitled shits. (Not ragging on hard work and subsequent success, but it has the capability to produce people with off-the-charts  levels.)
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Jan 31, 2013 15:19
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Soonmot posted:I had shared some meme about Sweden requiring employers give paternity leave to fathers and a friend, who is normally kind, generous and compassionate, yet is still a raging libertarian responds with "maybe this is why Sweden has 25% unemployment for workers in their 20's." Well, if you want to cherry pick age groups I guess it isn't. But their overall unemployment is still far better than ours, so it's kind of a red herring. It's not like people in their 20s are the only ones breeding, and better educated people tend to delay starting a family until they've secured a stable nest; many waiting until they're in their 30s. Edit: I'm also unsure if sweden tracks unemployment in the same way we do, as we discount 'noninstitutional population'(inmates, active duty military?) from the unemployment data. If we were to include the inmates it's near or worse than their youth unemployment. Even if they do exclude inmates and soldiers from their data they have both a much smaller military and incarceration rate, meaning it'd still look pretty favorable for them; but I'm just pulling stuff out of my rear end now. NatasDog fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 15:52
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Look at this poo poo that showed up in my news feed. As a non-American, isn't anti-colonialism one important facet of the raison d'être of the United States? Monroe doctrine and all that?
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Jan 31, 2013 16:02
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Imperialist Dog posted:Look at this poo poo that showed up in my news feed. Thinking of the American Revolution in terms of anti-colonialism is a bit awkward. I mean. It was anti-colonial in a sense. But it wasn't launched as a matter of anti-colonial principle. It's a very complicated event, and while there was some radical political ferment that popped up, the Revolution was really centered on rich dudes. Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 16:06
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Imperialist Dog posted:Look at this poo poo that showed up in my news feed. Where does the "fact" about Obama's ghost writer come from? I don't think I've heard that one before.
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Jan 31, 2013 16:10
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Ha, it's got that bullshit rumor of Dreams from my Father being ghost written by the weather underground guy as a "fact". Of course Obama couldn't possibly write a book himself because he is a dumb
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Jan 31, 2013 16:12
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Troll Bridgington posted:Where does the "fact" about Obama's ghost writer come from? I don't think I've heard that one before. Well, given the hammer and sickle logo next to the word "facts", I guess that these are Communist facts, not real American facts! Who knows if they're true!
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Jan 31, 2013 16:15
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Soonmot posted:I had shared some meme about Sweden requiring employers give paternity leave to fathers and a friend, who is normally kind, generous and compassionate, yet is still a raging libertarian responds with "maybe this is why Sweden has 25% unemployment for workers in their 20's." Actually it's among people 15-25, not 20-30. In other words, high school and college students. The employment rate for teenagers in the US is about the same, around 24%. The BLS goes 19 and younger, then 20-30. If they sampled 15-25 together, it would likely still be the same as Sweden.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:15
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Sweden also has a higher average age for first child among women than the US. Truly the system is being bled dry by lazy people.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:22
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greatn posted:Ha, it's got that bullshit rumor of Dreams from my Father being ghost written by the weather underground guy as a "fact". Of course Obama couldn't possibly write a book himself because he is a dumb Lord knows Marxists can't write books. Not writing books is a tradition started by Marx himself.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:39
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Imperialist Dog posted:Look at this poo poo that showed up in my news feed. I am simply astounded at the amount of people that believe what amounts to conspiracy theories regarding Obama. They just cannot believe that he is legitimately the president or is not some kind of weird blend of Communo-Facist. The little "Dats a fact Jack!!!" at the bottom is also some fine vintage racism.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:50
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