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Coohoolin posted:
I think the joke is 'gently caress Alex Salmond' so it's probably hilarious if you agree with that opinion. The Guardian don't seem to be massive fans, to say the least.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:14
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Crameltonian posted:I think the joke is 'gently caress Alex Salmond' so it's probably hilarious if you agree with that opinion. The Guardian don't seem to be massive fans, to say the least. I mean, why did they make the font for the word "rule" so small? You can't even see it behind Salmond's head.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:19
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Generally  is some people read it as rule and some people read it as gently caress. Depending on what you came to depends on your opinion of the whole Scottish independence.Guardian:  Telegraph:  Indy:  Daily Mail:  quote:In a shake -up of police the Home Secretary has announced that it will be possible for chiefs of police from other countries to work here. quote:“Okay, Guys. Listen up. The Brits want me to kick rear end over in the UK. But don’t worry, It’s a reciprocal arrangement…” Fluo fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 15:25
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Bell/The Guardian is a poo poo on Scottish independence.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:28
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mfcrocker posted:Bell/The Guardian is a poo poo on Scottish independence. It's because Alex Salmond is getting a bit OCD about the wording. quote:Alex Salmond accepts election watchdog's criticism of original wording as well as its proposed campaign spending limits.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:32
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I know what the "joke" is. I highly doubt Bell's come up with a rorschach test for Scottish independence. The Guardian have been reliably terrible about independence coverage, except that latest piece where Kevin McKenna, who'd been smearing mud all over the place with terribly misinforming pieces, converted to independence. EDIT: Re Daily Heil. Like any NY cop would use the word "reciprocal".
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Jan 31, 2013 15:35
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Coohoolin posted:I know what the "joke" is. I highly doubt Bell's come up with a rorschach test for Scottish independence. The Guardian have been reliably terrible about independence coverage, except that latest piece where Kevin McKenna, who'd been smearing mud all over the place with terribly misinforming pieces, converted to independence. Generally because most newspapers and all English based newspapers are pro union, which I guess is why Salmond tried to befriend Murdoch like every Prime Minister has tried to do since Thatcher. Also The Guardian generally is 'liberal' most the time. Rowson and Bell are mostly right but I learnt growing up that no-one has the 'right' opinion 100% of the time. Like with Political parties, if everyone had a perfect political party we'd have 50 million or so political parties, which I agree with but this is used a lot to keep the status quo of 3 neo-liberal party style which I hate. Fluo fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 15:46
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Fluo posted:It's because Alex Salmond is getting a bit OCD about the wording. As did the No campaign before him. Both sides will try and get the wording that will most benefit their side, this is not a shock. Bell has been a poo poo about Scotland on multiple occasions and it's a little tiring.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:49
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mfcrocker posted:As did the No campaign before him. Both sides will try and get the wording that will most benefit their side, this is not a shock. I agree, it reminds me of the AV vote which Rowson summed up.  Just replace AV with Independence and Cable with Salmond. And yeah Bell is a Unionist. Fluo fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 15:53
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mfcrocker posted:Bell/The Guardian is a poo poo on Scottish independence. The thing that surprises me about the Scottish referendum is that the rest of the UK don't get any say in the matter. Maybe if they end up voting 'stay' then the rest of us should get a vote to see if they're allowed to. Maybe on renegotiated terms, like the (possibly) upcoming Euro referendum...
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Jan 31, 2013 17:32
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GTO posted:The thing that surprises me about the Scottish referendum is that the rest of the UK don't get any say in the matter. Maybe if they end up voting 'stay' then the rest of us should get a vote to see if they're allowed to. Maybe on renegotiated terms, like the (possibly) upcoming Euro referendum... This is not how self-determination works.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:40
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GTO posted:The thing that surprises me about the Scottish referendum is that the rest of the UK don't get any say in the matter. Maybe if they end up voting 'stay' then the rest of us should get a vote to see if they're allowed to. Maybe on renegotiated terms, like the (possibly) upcoming Euro referendum... Are you loving serious.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:58
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GTO posted:The thing that surprises me about the Scottish referendum is that the rest of the UK don't get any say in the matter. Maybe if they end up voting 'stay' then the rest of us should get a vote to see if they're allowed to. Maybe on renegotiated terms, like the (possibly) upcoming Euro referendum... Baroness Symons agrees with you: the BBC posted:In the Lords, Labour's Baroness Symons called for the whole United Kingdom to be included in any plebiscite. Realistically residence is the only eligibility criteria that's workable, but I know a number of Scots who're pretty upset that I for instance (Scottish but born and grew up in England so my accent is all wrong) will be allowed to vote just because I live here, whereas True Scotsmen like their Uncle Jim who lives in Canada won't get a say. Don't even get them started on residents originally from the rest of the EU. This is probably a stupid derail though, I think there's an independence thread over in D&D. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 18:08
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Coohoolin posted:Are you loving serious. It's about time England had some say in the way Scotland is run.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:11
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English people voting on the independence is silly, its like if Britain wanted to leave the EU and everyone in The EU having a vote on whether or not they leave. (I'd not want Britain to leave the EU but that is one of the things that first came to my head.) The one thing I do find weird is a friend of mine who is in the Navy who lived his whole life in Scotland but because he is in the Navy had to move to Portsmouth a couple of years ago isn't allowed to vote because he has to be living in Scotland in the 3 years before the vote happens. Or something along those lines, whatever the rules are he will be unable to vote. Fluo fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 18:19
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I've heard a fair number of people trying to argue that both Scotland and the UK-remnant would have to re-apply to everything following Scottish independence, because the UK would no longer exist and England/Wales/Northern Ireland would be a new entity just like Scotland. If, and only if, that was the case, then the referendum should certainly be nationwide, just like the consequences. But that's also a really lovely approach to international legal theory, so keep the Scottish vote to the Scottish people.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:28
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Freudian posted:I've heard a fair number of people trying to argue that both Scotland and the UK-remnant would have to re-apply to everything following Scottish independence, because the UK would no longer exist and England/Wales/Northern Ireland would be a new entity just like Scotland. If, and only if, that was the case, then the referendum should certainly be nationwide, just like the consequences. But that's also a really lovely approach to international legal theory, so keep the Scottish vote to the Scottish people. From the news I've heard from the EU England/Wales/Northern Ireland wouldn't but Scotland will and because of the Spanish and other EU countries which have areas that want to become Independent like Catalonia they want to make it as hard as possible for Scotland. They will be put in a waiting queue to join the EU also its said any country to join the EU will have to take up the Euro. http://www.parliament.uk/documents/...dhat_101212.pdf http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20664907 quote:The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, has said that any new independent country would have to apply to join the EU. quote:Ireland's European affairs minister has said an independent Scotland would need to apply to become a member of the European Union.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:40
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Yeah, that seems an unlikely scenario. According to this interview at least, Scotland would have to reapply and the rest of the UK would remain the UK and continue as before.BBC Hardtalk posted:Interviewer: The Commission has made it clear that any country, a country like Scotland, that would choose to be independent, would need to reapply for EU membership. When you think about how that would work, would it just be nodded through, do you think? Bolding mine. Of course nobody is sure yet and I've no doubt that there are hordes of legal experts just waiting to get their teeth into this should independence look like something that's going to happen.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:40
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Fluo posted:its like if Britain wanted to leave the EU and everyone in The EU having a vote on whether or not they leave. Except that would be fine, because our vote to leave would be enthusiastically ratified by 98.9% of EU citizens voting "gently caress off then and good riddance".
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Jan 31, 2013 18:52
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HCO Plumer GCB GCM posted:Except that would be fine, because our vote to leave would be enthusiastically ratified by 98.9% of EU citizens voting "gently caress off then and good riddance". But it wouldn't really be fair, since most of us would want to stay? D:
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Jan 31, 2013 18:54
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Coohoolin posted:
It's a bit cleverer than it looks, it's a visual pun. A nickname for Alex Salmond is "wee Ec'" (short for Alec, which is short for Alex, which is short for Alexander - we'll never use a whole syllable up here if we can help it). I'll leave you lads to figure the rest out for yourselves.  But yeah, Bell's never come up with a caricature for Salmond beyond "Scottish", which is a bit of a shame because the fat bastard could do with a better lampooning.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:15
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Murderion posted:the fat bastard could do with a better lampooning.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:22
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Coohoolin posted:Now this is something I find genuinely confusing. Why? What's so bad about Salmond? What is it about him that gets people's sashes in a twist? I'm a Scot who's swithering over independence, but Alex Salmond always comes across as a self-publicist and full of talk. My impression of him is very much a populist, and his cosying up to Rupert Murdoch is something I intensely dislike. Still, the SNP have done lovely things with not cutting everything and I definitely support them over Labour and (holy poo poo they're nuts) the tories.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:26
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Coohoolin posted:Now this is something I find genuinely confusing. Why? What's so bad about Salmond? What is it about him that gets people's sashes in a twist? He has the same relationship with big business as toilet paper does with the rest of us, see Trump et al. Also he seems to know slightly less about post-independence Scotland's EU position and defense policies than the average poster in this thread. To be fair, he and his party is good on policy for the most part, and all around they're far more politically savvy than the rest of the clowns in Holyrood (with the possible exception of ~*Annabelle Goldie~*~, although she's a Tory). I just said it because I'd like to see a decent caricature of him, really.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:35
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Uhm. You do know it was Michael Moore that got Trump into Scotland in the first place. I don't understand this "populist" stuff. Is it populism to propose policies that benefit the populace? Surely not, the negative connotions to populism (i.e. demagoguery) are in appealing to the populace on issues that are harmful to them (racism, protectionism, exclusionism, etc). Sure, I'll grant you that the low corporate tax stance isn't agreeable. But I still have a hard time understanding where this intense dislike comes from. For context, I grew up in Switzerland and came to Scotland three years ago. My first impressions of Alex Salmond were those of an eloquent and informed speaker, a talented debater, a straightforward propagandist (this is a good thing- avoiding doublespeak and waffling is very rare among politicians), and a genuinely committed and optimistic guy. So he needs to rub shoulders with some nasty people. With the extent of the anti-independence bias that exists within pretty much every mainstream publication, Murdoch is kind of the only place he can actually go. It's a shame, but don't blame Salmond for that- blame Unionist tabloid media. I understand the need to criticize politicians, I really do, I just find it weird how Salmond seems to inspire more hatred than Cameron and Clegg at times.
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Feb 1, 2013 02:48
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Coohoolin posted:My first impressions of Alex Salmond were those of an eloquent and informed speaker, a talented debater, a straightforward propagandist (this is a good thing- avoiding doublespeak and waffling is very rare among politicians), and a genuinely committed and optimistic guy. So he needs to rub shoulders with some nasty people. With the extent of the anti-independence bias that exists within pretty much every mainstream publication, Murdoch is kind of the only place he can actually go. It's a shame, but don't blame Salmond for that- blame Unionist tabloid media. This was pretty much said with Tony Blair / Murdoch in the late 90s (but replace Unionist with Tory).  Also don't forget all that Leveson stuff. With all politicians you praise them when they are good, rail at them when they have been bad. It's a dangerous point to get to when having to come up with excuses for a politician you like when s/he has done something bad. I had to deal with people who voted Lib Dem but were coming up with excuses on why Clegg went back on the student pledge.  Guardian:  David Cameron's trip to Libya Telegraph:  Independent:  Daily Mail:  quote:Charles and Camilla have tried for the first time in 27 years travelling by tube. quote:“I don’t understand. Charles and Camilla said it was quite jolly.” Fluo fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 1, 2013 |
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Feb 1, 2013 04:12
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Fluo posted:
I use the Tube about once a year on average so I don't see what this is getting it. Travelling on the Tube is... bad? Not fun?
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Feb 1, 2013 05:09
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Crameltonian posted:I use the Tube about once a year on average so I don't see what this is getting it. Travelling on the Tube is... bad? Not fun? Full of minorities.
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Feb 1, 2013 05:10
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Crameltonian posted:I use the Tube about once a year on average so I don't see what this is getting it. Travelling on the Tube is... bad? Not fun? since the "drawing a fat man with a big nose as a fat man with a big nose is antisemitic" thing, i've been applying to every cartoon. mac scores four jewish stereotypes there, and most of his new york cops on his previous cartoon.
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Feb 1, 2013 10:40
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Murderion posted:It's a bit cleverer than it looks, it's a visual pun. A nickname for Alex Salmond is "wee Ec'" (short for Alec, which is short for Alex, which is short for Alexander - we'll never use a whole syllable up here if we can help it). I'll leave you lads to figure the rest out for yourselves. I'm really stupid and I can't work it out even with your explanation. Is it something to do with 'Ec' sounding like 'feck'?
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Feb 1, 2013 11:00
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Holy poo poo that Mac one is like Where's Wally of racist cariacatures. Except you don't have to look very hard because they're everywhere. I mean, look at that bottom left corner. Christ.
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Feb 1, 2013 11:07
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Surprised by the lack of Burkas in that DM one But going by Mail logic , they probably get gold plated taxis (paid by the taxpayer), or they don't have jobs to go to because they are stealing all your benefits
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Feb 1, 2013 11:55
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ClownSyndrome posted:Surprised by the lack of Burkas in that DM one  Where's Wally of racist caricatures indeed.
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Feb 1, 2013 12:07
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ah, I stand corrected!
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Feb 1, 2013 13:08
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Exclamation Marx posted:Full of minorities. Welp, I'm not as good as picking up on racism as I thought. Saw the minorities and just thought 'well duh, it's London'. I was assuming it was some banal comic about how people don't talk to each other on the Tube or something...
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Feb 1, 2013 13:39
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Fluo posted:Guardian: I know it's Libya and not Iraq, but is this a reference to that statue? Crameltonian posted:Welp, I'm not as good as picking up on racism as I thought. Saw the minorities and just thought 'well duh, it's London'. I was assuming it was some banal comic about how people don't talk to each other on the Tube or something... It is a banal comic about people not talking to each other on the Tube, but Mac is awful and can't help but draw bigoted poo poo even when that's not what the cartoon is about. Or at least that's my (probably over charitable) interpretation.
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Feb 1, 2013 16:11
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If you type "Jesus on a tube train" into GIS Charles and Camilla are the third result.
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Feb 1, 2013 16:15
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cloudchamber posted:If you type "Jesus on a tube train" into GIS Charles and Camilla are the third result. Ahaha what the gently caress!  Guardian:  Cameron's African adventure. Parody of Edward Linley Sambourne's famous "Cecil Rhodes bestriding Africa."  Stephen Collins   And this thing.  Telegraph:  Indy: 
Fluo fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Feb 2, 2013 |
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Feb 2, 2013 11:45
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I love that Collins comic. Donk.
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Feb 2, 2013 12:03
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Fluo posted:Indy: After Gustav Courbet's Beunos Dias Señor Courbet, although the why escapes me. 
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