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Shageletic posted:By "illegal connections" are we talking about the drug cartel stuff? I don't anything about the business, but one thing stopping me from participating as a consumer is the chance I might be helping really bad people. Very little decent-quality marijuana comes from cartels. Almost all of it in the midwest is grown by hippies or white collar folks, distributed by hippies or white collar folks, and smoked by the same. By "illegal connections" we're talking about hippies that drive herb from medically legal states to those which are not, tapping into the distribution network there of (you guessed it) hippies, college kids, and white collar folks.
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Jan 30, 2013 14:04
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Space Crabs posted:I don't know how it's going in greater CO but as I posted earlier the county commission voted to ban recreational marijuana sales in Colorado Springs/El Paso County. I kinda hope the more outspoken commissioner talking about Marijuana's dangerous cancer causing addictiveness and dropping "think of the children" defense is experiencing her last term. I'm sure she's being pressured heavily by the local Christian fundies and the military bases there more than anything. Up here in the north it's the beer industry who's lobbying against it surprise surprise.
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Jan 30, 2013 16:29
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Space Crabs posted:I don't know how it's going in greater CO but as I posted earlier the county commission voted to ban recreational marijuana sales in Colorado Springs/El Paso County. I kinda hope the more outspoken commissioner talking about Marijuana's dangerous cancer causing addictiveness and dropping "think of the children" defense is experiencing her last term. This is because Colorado Springs is full of old people that need to die off. Why do you think God sent his holy fire to burn half of that place to the ground.
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Jan 30, 2013 17:47
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Especially the Springs, they're so broke they can't keep the street lights on. Heh, you think that a municipality that would rather watch itself burn to the ground than raise taxes to pay for firefighters would let a little thing like street lights turn them around on devil grass?
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Jan 30, 2013 18:47
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Heh, you think that a municipality that would rather watch itself burn to the ground than raise taxes to pay for firefighters would let a little thing like street lights turn them around on devil grass? quote:On June 26, when near-hurricane force winds caused a firestorm that swept into the city, “I don’t care if we had 2,000 people, there’s nothing we could have done,” Brown said. The city has 413 firefighters and recently graduated its first new class of recruits in five years, he said. Also yes, I do think Co Springs will reverse this ban and allow the devil grass. The Springs is a very unique social mixture that I don't think exists in many places. Not only is the city full of Christian fundies and military personnel, but it is also home to some of the biggest potheads I have ever met. People regularly smoke in public, I've witnesses it in the Springs far more than in Denver that's for sure. The biggest binding factor of the whole city is that most consider themselves Libertarian which is an amazing new political movement that is resulting in people's cognitive dissonance being shattered on the subject of drugs.
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Jan 30, 2013 19:19
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Very little decent-quality marijuana comes from cartels. Almost all of it in the midwest is grown by hippies or white collar folks, distributed by hippies or white collar folks, and smoked by the same. By "illegal connections" we're talking about hippies that drive herb from medically legal states to those which are not, tapping into the distribution network there of (you guessed it) hippies, college kids, and white collar folks. Pretty much this. It's hard to say no to someone whose offering you twice the price per pound when it's so goddamn easy to move product around the country it's a joke. Not so much helping cartels, as it's each person choosing what their relative risk level is. Also, if you hate capitalism (like myself), you may not enjoy black markets. Because it's seriously soul-crushingly depressing, the first time you're exposed to the real idea that 'anything and everything can be bought' life kinda loses some of it's innocence. Pro-tip; if you want to be successful, run your poo poo like a socialist co-op farm with proper profit sharing. When everyone's paid, they're happy. If people aren't getting their 'fair share', your rear end isn't going to last long. Or you're a cartel and you have the muscle to back you up.
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Jan 30, 2013 19:27
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Lol if you're going to make a political point, please be careful not to cite a source that invalidates your claim It doesn't actually invalidate the claim that they cut police and fire service rather than raise property taxes and then relied on the feds for help. The point is that they are economic morons and are more than willing to avoid revenue gathering strategies if it doesn't fit with their ideology. I don't doubt that there are a bunch of weed smokers but there obviously aren't enough potheads to keep the municipal government from re-banning weed after voters decided it should be legal state-wide.
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Jan 30, 2013 19:31
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Space Crabs posted:I don't know how it's going in greater CO but as I posted earlier the county commission voted to ban recreational marijuana sales in Colorado Springs/El Paso County.
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Jan 30, 2013 19:33
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800peepee51doodoo posted:It doesn't actually invalidate the claim that they cut police and fire service rather than raise property taxes and then relied on the feds for help. The point is that they are economic morons and are more than willing to avoid revenue gathering strategies if it doesn't fit with their ideology. I don't doubt that there are a bunch of weed smokers but there obviously aren't enough potheads to keep the municipal government from re-banning weed after voters decided it should be legal state-wide. Like I said earlier, the municipal government is being pressured by the US Army, US Airforce, US Airforce Academy, Focus on the Family, New Life Church, Christian and Missionary Alliance, etc etc. I'll be sure to post back when the ban is overturned by public pressure. The French Army! posted:Then again, everyone knows that Colorado Springs is the Rotten Republican rear end in a top hat of this great state. And I lived in Pueblo. 
NathanScottPhillips fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 19:43
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NathanScottPhillips posted:On top of that it is very economically savvy to get aid from the feds instead of paying it out yourself, the biggest corporations in the land do this with great effect. Yes it is at that. It's the American way to make others pay for your tax cuts. NathanScottPhillips posted:Like I said earlier, the municipal government is being pressured by the US Army, US Airforce, US Airforce Academy, Focus on the Family, New Life Church, Christian and Missionary Alliance, etc etc. I'll be sure to post back when the ban is overturned by public pressure. Please do, I would be overjoyed to be wrong. But it seems like you might be over estimating the amount of pressure the public can bring to bear against all of those well-financed forces you listed above.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:04
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NathanScottPhillips posted:The biggest binding factor of the whole city is that most consider themselves Libertarian which is an amazing new political movement that is resulting in people's cognitive dissonance being shattered on the subject of drugs. This is sarcasm, right?
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Jan 30, 2013 20:05
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:This is sarcasm, right?
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Jan 30, 2013 20:18
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Yes it is at that. It's the American way to make others pay for your tax cuts. quote:Please do, I would be overjoyed to be wrong. But it seems like you might be over estimating the amount of pressure the public can bring to bear against all of those well-financed forces you listed above.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:24
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Goddamn Texan and Californian conservative assholes coming to our ex-hippy paradise Are you aware of the electoral history of Colorado? The state has been getting bluer, not redder. I'm an ex-Californian and my girlfriend is an ex-Oregonian, we live in Denver, and we're certainly not conservative. I think the majority of transplants into the Denver/Boulder area are at least as left as current Democrats.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:38
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Radbot posted:Are you aware of the electoral history of Colorado? The state has been getting bluer, not redder. I'm an ex-Californian and my girlfriend is an ex-Oregonian, we live in Denver, and we're certainly not conservative. I think the majority of transplants into the Denver/Boulder area are at least as left as current Democrats. Also places like Boulder are a shitload more conservative now than they were, say in the 1970-1980s (when there were hippy communes everywhere). e: this is getting off topic but basically all I wanted to say is that weed is legal yay I love smoking weed with gun nuts and also Libertarians are our best chance at a viable 3rd party and an important ally in the War on the War on Drugs. NathanScottPhillips fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 23:35
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Personally I'd rather have weed be illegal and still have a functioning social safety net and public services in general, so I guess I'm not quite as enthused about libertarian power as you.
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Jan 31, 2013 01:16
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Radbot posted:Personally I'd rather have weed be illegal and still have a functioning social safety net and public services in general, so I guess I'm not quite as enthused about libertarian power as you.
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Jan 31, 2013 15:43
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Legalizing weed is not a good enough reason to subscribe to the added craziness that libertarianism brings. "Yeah, we'll let states decide about important issues like marijuana!" sounds good until you realize that a good chunk of southern states would use this to set back social progress 100 years.
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Jan 31, 2013 16:59
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It would not surprise me if Colorado Springs remains weed free. I mean most KY counties are still dry 80 years after prohibition ended! It won't matter, Denver will have it legal, state will get its money and rural people will still get their state money.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:05
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hobbesmaster posted:It would not surprise me if Colorado Springs remains weed free. I mean most KY counties are still dry 80 years after prohibition ended! It won't matter, Denver will have it legal, state will get its money and rural people will still get their state money. To be clear here, is Colorado Springs only banning sales within the jurisdiction, or also consumption? While there's plenty of dry counties, almost all of them do allow you to drink the alcohol you brought in from the nearest "wet" one.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:26
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RichieWolk posted:Legalizing weed is not a good enough reason to subscribe to the added craziness that libertarianism brings. "Yeah, we'll let states decide about important issues like marijuana!" sounds good until you realize that a good chunk of southern states would use this to set back social progress 100 years. I thought genuine libertarianism was supposed to be about letting people decide how to live their lives. But yeah, even then it's highly debatable whether that's worth abandoning anti-discrimination laws and social safety nets.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:32
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Install Gentoo posted:To be clear here, is Colorado Springs only banning sales within the jurisdiction, or also consumption? While there's plenty of dry counties, almost all of them do allow you to drink the alcohol you brought in from the nearest "wet" one. I may be mistaken, but from what I understand the legality of weed is now part of the Colorado constitution, which means no jurisdiction within the state can ban private possession and consumption by individuals.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:38
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:I may be mistaken, but from what I understand the legality of weed is now part of the Colorado constitution, which means no jurisdiction within the state can ban private possession and consumption by individuals. This is correct. Amendment 64 pretty explicitly says that individual localities cannot make possession or consumption illegal. Amendment 64 posted:(3) Personal use of marijuana. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF LAW, THE FOLLOWING ACTS ARE NOT UNLAWFUL AND SHALL NOT BE AN OFFENSE UNDER COLORADO LAW OR THE LAW OF ANY LOCALITY WITHIN COLORADO OR BE A BASIS FOR SEIZURE OR FORFEITURE OF ASSETS UNDER COLORADO LAW FOR PERSONS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER: Interestingly enough, (a) also lists purchase of up to 1oz of pot as something that localities cannot make illegal, so I wonder if the Colorado Springs law is in direct conflict with the amendment? I'm sure there's some loophole that allows it though.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:45
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The Maroon Hawk posted:This is correct. Amendment 64 pretty explicitly says that individual localities cannot make possession or consumption illegal. That would be this: quote:A LOCALITY MAY PROHIBIT THE OPERATION OF MARIJUANA CULTIVATION FACILITIES, MARIJUANA PRODUCT MANUFACTURING FACILITIES, MARIJUANA TESTING FACILITIES, OR RETAIL MARIJUANA STORES THROUGH THE ENACTMENT OF AN ORDINANCE OR THROUGH AN INITIATED OR REFERRED MEASURE; PROVIDED, ANY INITIATED OR REFERRED MEASURE TO PROHIBIT THE OPERATION OF MARIJUANA CULTIVATION FACILITIES, MARIJUANA PRODUCT MANUFACTURING FACILITIES, MARIJUANA TESTING FACILITIES, OR RETAIL MARIJUANA STORES MUST APPEAR ON A GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT DURING AN EVEN NUMBERED YEAR.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:54
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RichieWolk posted:Legalizing weed is not a good enough reason to subscribe to the added craziness that libertarianism brings. "Yeah, we'll let states decide about important issues like marijuana!" sounds good until you realize that a good chunk of southern states would use this to set back social progress 100 years. hobbesmaster posted:It would not surprise me if Colorado Springs remains weed free. I mean most KY counties are still dry 80 years after prohibition ended! It won't matter, Denver will have it legal, state will get its money and rural people will still get their state money. Also I should point out that this is similar to when MMJ first passed, Colorado Springs imposed harsh regulations and fees that effectively banned dispensaries from operating in the city. They were overturned. e: Also I should say that the vast majority of MMJ dispensary sales are being flipped on the black market. People buy a stock with their card and then sell to their friends that don't have a card for a small mark up. Once retail shops open up, there would be no reason to do this so I suspect dedicated MMJ shops will start to dry up. NathanScottPhillips fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 19:00
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:I may be mistaken, but from what I understand the legality of weed is now part of the Colorado constitution, which means no jurisdiction within the state can ban private possession and consumption by individuals. Ok, thanks. It wasn't clear whether they were attempting to do so despite the amendment.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:01
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NathanScottPhillips posted:I agree. Good thing I never argued for that! My #1 priority is getting a viable 3rd party that is not steeped in the theater of politics and challenges the status quo. The Feds descheduling marijuana would be in no way a precedent for states overturning civil rights, I'm not sure where you think that part comes in. Things like the Civil Rights Act are solidified in law and Congress has asserted that they are necessary to enforce the constitution. Ain't going anywhere. Descheduling marijuana would only require a consensus and some paperwork. Well, those counties in KY still could make money off booze and yet they vote themselves dry. I bet Colorado Springs will be the same way.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:34
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NathanScottPhillips posted:I agree. Good thing I never argued for that! My #1 priority is getting a viable 3rd party that is not steeped in the theater of politics and challenges the status quo. The Feds descheduling marijuana would be in no way a precedent for states overturning civil rights, I'm not sure where you think that part comes in. NathanScottPhillips posted:Libertarians are gaining political power and are the only party pushing to end the War on Drugs. You really think that a libertarian senator/representative wouldn't vote for other libertarian bills and push for things other than marijuana legalization? Have you actually looked into what the libertarian party says? Let me help you; here is a video from the official libertarian party https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1KzKURfVc Let's get rid of all those pesky regulations for farmers that supply the nation's food. Why should they be required to spend a bunch of money to guarantee there's no "bacteria" or "feces" in your food, when the free market will eventually bankrupt the people who sell tainted meat?  Legalizing weed is important, but jesus christ libertarians are crazy and shouldn't be encouraged.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:40
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RichieWolk posted:You really think that a libertarian senator/representative wouldn't vote for other libertarian bills and push for things other than marijuana legalization? Have you actually looked into what the libertarian party says? Let me help you; here is a video from the official libertarian party People like you are why our country is such poo poo. Such picky babies who won't work with anyone else unless you're views align 100%. The Republicans believe about 100,000 different conflicting things but somehow always come together to vote in their man. hobbesmaster posted:Well, those counties in KY still could make money off booze and yet they vote themselves dry. I bet Colorado Springs will be the same way.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:52
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NathanScottPhillips posted:And are they large metropolitan areas with medical alcohol dispensaries and private medical alcohol grows in people's backyards? Like I said MMJ shops were banned in the Springs too, until they were overturned by popular support. For some bizarre reason people in some of these counties don't like people starting wineries, thats simple zoning stuff. Home brewing isn't illegal so I guess you can do that. If theres popular support of course then it'll happen eventually. I'm just saying it isn't the end of the world if a few counties don't allow shops, its par for the course.
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Jan 31, 2013 20:17
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Here's a good informative panel talk on Amendment 64 including two lawyers and 2 people who wrote the amendment plus a man helping to write the bill governing industrial hemp and a local politician at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fhwqDSVof8 They elaborate on the retail ban in Co Springs, social clubs, new business ideas, interaction with the Feds, and industrial hemp. Fun fact, asphalt companies have been looking into hemp oil instead of petroleum or soy oil that they use now. Come to El Buderado, where the streets are paved in green! NathanScottPhillips fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Feb 1, 2013 |
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Feb 1, 2013 06:12
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computer parts posted:That would be this: The law is in conflict with the amendment, then, because the prohibition on marijuana facilities was implemented without being placed on a ballot on an even-numbered year. Now, whether anyone will actually do anything about it is an entirely different story.
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Feb 1, 2013 06:38
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NathanScottPhillips posted:What they want to do and what they can do are two very different things. The EPA is enshrined in law and backed by two branches of government. Libertarians want to stop subsidies to corporate farms and oil companies, too, which is something that actually is possible. The EPA has done nothing but had its teeth pulled out one at a time for the past three decades, so implying that it's some holy bastion that can't be completely destroyed with legislation rings hollow to me. Implying that there are not elements of the libertarian party wouldn't do everything it could to destroy it seems to contradict public statements from various people.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:36
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No doubt the EPA has been corrupted to the extreme. I don't support everything Libertarians stand for, as I've said, having a viable 3rd party is far more important to me. I view Libertarian threats against the EPA is the same way I view Republican threats against gay marriage and abortion. Just political BS to get simple minded votes. On top of all that the Libertarian goal of stopping fossil-fuel and corn subsidies would arguably be more beneficial to the environment and stopping climate change than the EPA as it currently exists (and maybe if the discourse shifts the EPA will have to justify itself). Also ending the War on Drugs is a priority goal mentioned by almost every Libertarian politician and is in section 1.2 of the Libertarian platform on their main website, which is what this thread is about IIRC.
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Feb 4, 2013 23:14
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The Maroon Hawk posted:The law is in conflict with the amendment, then, because the prohibition on marijuana facilities was implemented without being placed on a ballot on an even-numbered year. If they did they'll just deny a building permit for [reasons] until they officially ban it, assuming it doesn't take >2 years to get through the courts anyway.
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Feb 4, 2013 23:14
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quote:Members of Congress will introduce historic legislation on Tuesday to permit for the regulated production and retail sales of cannabis to adults in states that have legalized its consumption.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:47
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tastethehappy posted:http://norml.org/news/2013/02/05/members-of-congress-to-introduce-federal-measure-to-legalize-cannabis-regulate-sales Whoohoo! Maybe our State's liquor control director won't be arrested on RICO charges. For those who didn't follow I-502, it basically set a timeline for the Liquor Control Board to get marijuana growers, processors, and vendors licensed and compliant. After it passed the WSLCB put together a series of public forums around the state to hear citizens concerns or plans. A video of the first Seattle one is available here and so far the biggest concern is actually finding a bank that can take the mandatory taxes for the state. Right now federally insured banks aren't supposed to bank for known drug dealers, and since the State will effectively be in the drug business, we've got a slight problem. Personally I am hoping that Washington funnels its tax money to the Cayman islands, Mitt Romney style, for maximum irony.
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Feb 5, 2013 20:59
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Red_Mage posted:Right now federally insured banks aren't supposed to bank for known drug dealers, and since the State will effectively be in the drug business, we've got a slight problem. Didn't seem to bother HSBC too much. 
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Feb 5, 2013 21:10
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NathanScottPhillips posted:What they want to do and what they can do are two very different things. The EPA is enshrined in law and backed by two branches of government. Libertarians want to stop subsidies to corporate farms and oil companies, too, which is something that actually is possible. Please, explain why being "enshrined in law and backed by two branches of government" means a goddamn thing. Prohibition was enshrined in law and backed by the full force of the US Constitution, as an example. In other news, Colorado localities are starting to take on A64, and surprisingly, it isn't the Springs that has the problem: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22500645/greenwood-village-ordinance-test-pot-legalization-law#ixzz2JxToJ0Eb quote:An ordinance passed last month in Greenwood Village is poised to become a test case for how far cities can go to keep marijuana out of their communities after legalization. Seems to me this is pretty clearly illegal and flies in the face of the Colorado Constitution post A64, particularly the part about making it illegal to transport through the city. That lawyer needs to go back to law school if she thinks cities "own" streets and sidewalks in the same way they own government buildings. Radbot fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 21:12
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quote:The ordinance makes it a municipal violation to possess marijuana on city streets, sidewalks, parks, trails and government buildings. Haas Davidson, the city attorney, said police will have a light hand in enforcing it.
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Feb 5, 2013 21:20
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