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JT Jag posted:Slay Loren L. Coleman, wear his flesh, and do things once thought impossible! Do this. I have no idea who Loren L. Coleman is, but I'm always strongly in support of slaying, flaying, and skin-wearing.
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Jan 31, 2013 17:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:Do this. I have no idea who Loren L. Coleman is, but I'm always strongly in support of slaying, flaying, and skin-wearing.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:05
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JT Jag posted:Slay Loren L. Coleman, wear his flesh, and do things once thought impossible! But he's one of the
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Jan 31, 2013 18:08
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Then Robert Thurston would be touching you. Why would you want that?
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Jan 31, 2013 18:28
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Reboot Battletech to like 3025 or something, delete Clan Wolf, and bam(!) immeasurably improved universe.
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Jan 31, 2013 18:57
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Servicio en Espanol posted:Reboot Battletech to like 3025 or something, delete Clan Wolf, and bam(!) immeasurably improved universe. Then the falcons become the author insert clan, are ruined and the same thing happens. STACKPOLE CANNOT BE SATED WITHOUT HIS MARY SUE TIE INS OKAY.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:04
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Axe-man posted:Then the falcons become the author insert clan, are ruined and the same thing happens. STACKPOLE CANNOT BE SATED WITHOUT HIS MARY SUE TIE INS OKAY. The clans in general have an air of Sueness about them. They are a genetically optimized warrior culture focused on glory and honor that operates on a fairly effective meritocracy; despite inhabiting marginal worlds with little preexisting infrastructure, they managed to not only retain Star League tech but dramatically improve upon and produce it. When they invade the Inner Sphere, they manage to capture huge swathes of territory, despite their massive logistical and numerical disadvantages. When they are finally defeated, the Inner Sphere finds that it, for some reason, can't figure out how to mimic Clantech without incurring great expense, yet the clans holding territory in the Inner Sphere are able to continue doing so. Honestly, the fact that the invasion was as successful as it turned out is evidence of their Suedom to me.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:19
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Just turn them into Zentradi and the circle of Battletech will be complete 
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Jan 31, 2013 19:21
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There is no quick and easy fix. BattleTech is going to have to either make a clean break and start fresh with whole new factions; or admit that they'll be saddled with legacy mechanics and balance issues. If they do reboot in 3250, they should honestly go with "engine, heat sinks, and armor advances have rendered the old overpowered weapons less powerful so now things are basically the same as they were in 3025" and then do a complete rebalance; rather than MW:DA's "We don't know how `Mechs work, so everyone is fighting in walking space tractors."
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Jan 31, 2013 19:23
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I still say the idea behind a Dark Age was the right one, where a centralizing and de-escalating authority collapses (really the story of the original star league collapse, writ small), but they can't do that again at 3250 without making it look like they're just desperately taking a second crack at the Dark Age. As such, a century of peace and some major tech upgrades that makes the old generation of war-tech obsolete is probably the right way to do it. Getting back to a 3025 feel of mechs being rare and precious really requires either a hundred years of peace to let everyone slowly demilitarize/advance past existing arsenals or a century of absolute, bloody succession war that nukes the setting back into the stone age.
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Jan 31, 2013 19:47
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A Fifth Succession War where some inbred Davion decides to wipe his rear end on the Ares Conventions would probably do the trick nicely, yes?
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Jan 31, 2013 19:54
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fool_of_sound posted:The clans in general have an air of Sueness about them. They are a genetically optimized warrior culture focused on glory and honor that operates on a fairly effective meritocracy; despite inhabiting marginal worlds with little preexisting infrastructure, they managed to not only retain Star League tech but dramatically improve upon and produce it. When they invade the Inner Sphere, they manage to capture huge swathes of territory, despite their massive logistical and numerical disadvantages. When they are finally defeated, the Inner Sphere finds that it, for some reason, can't figure out how to mimic Clantech without incurring great expense, yet the clans holding territory in the Inner Sphere are able to continue doing so. It makes more sense when you realize that the Clans are supposed to represent the Mongols threatening your medieval world. Granted, they decided to switch things up and have their Mongols invade Norway, Japan, and Germany rather than the more historical Russia and China axis that you'd have gotten at the Marik/Liao border, but even so that was more or less the plan. And since the thing that made the Mongols nigh unstoppable on the battlefield was the mobility, accuracy, and range of their horse archers over the armored knights who were their opponents, the Clans got faster 'mechs with targeting computers and better pilots as well as longer ranged guns. No matter that the Mongols developed they way they did because they didn't have the resources that the "civilized" nations did but you would need equivalent or better resources to develop better 'mechs the way the Clans do. By god the Mongols came out of nothing to threaten the world, and so shall the Clans! Hell, the Clans even had the death of the Great Khan forcing everyone to go home to pick a successor that actually happened to the Mongols in history. Granted, there are some pretty stark differences. For one thing, the Mongols were masters of breaking their enemies' coalitions against them apart by playing on barely papered over rivalries. The Clans, on the other hand, were so inept at this kind of diplomacy that they managed to forge a new Star League to fight against them. Furthermore, the Mongols had a zero tolerance policy towards resistance. If you resisted after they gave you a chance to surrender, they burned your whole city to the ground and killed everyone who lived there. The closest the Clans had to that was Turtle Bay, and they only did it the once. Obviously that's because they wanted people to be willing to play the new factions (and thus, buy the new miniatures and TROs with Clan stuff in it) and couldn't have the Clans be as ruthless as their historical counterparts lest they drive away most of the players. Also, they couldn't have the Clans be as effective as the Mongols because they'd win, and you can't ever have anyone win for real in a game setting like this or else there wouldn't be a game. You know, how no one plays in 2700 to do "police actions of the Star League". Anyway, the point is that the Clans are just flimsy versions of Space Mongols who get some of the advantages that the historical ones get because that's how it was in history. Frankly, I'd prefer it if they did full reboot back to 3025 and either do away with the Clans entirely, or if you must have them, at least rework them to something more interesting and less stupid than Space Mongols with the serial numbers filed off. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 20:13
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jng2058 posted:Anyway, the point is that the Clans are just flimsy versions of Space Mongols who get some of the advantages that the historical ones get because that's how it was in history. Frankly, I'd prefer it if they did full reboot back to 3025 and either do away with the Clans entirely, or if you must have them, at least rework them to something more interesting and less stupid than Space Mongols with the serial numbers filed off. But the Mongols are cool! Historically speaking; I imagine they sucked for anyone in their way. And in all honesty, the Clan invasion is a massive failure. They capture, what? 20% of the IS, and never get anywhere near Terra? Dangerous, sure, but they simply don't have the resources to fight the sheer numbers the IS can produce. Really though, the Clans tech edge makes at least as much sense as the way politics and the nations of the IS worked, people just like to pick on them because of the dumb eugenics poo poo they added on top of that. Kerensky was able to see all this tech-murder bullshit coming and, playing off the pride and self-righteousness of mechwarriors in general, built a society that wouldn't just nuke everything in warfare. It's basically how the Japanese nobility constrained the Samurai caste from just murdering everyone: some guys wrote a bunch of stuff about how things were when they were Well, anyway, if you're not actively killing your tech base, and scientists are around doing their thing anyway, you're going to get better and better tech. It's kind of what really loving smart people do, they just invent poo poo. Honestly, the IS having lost drat near everything makes even less sense, given the sheer numbers of people in the IS and how spread out they'd have been. It works for the setting though, so, whatever. More reasons for stompy robots to shoot each other is always good.
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Jan 31, 2013 20:39
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Arquinsiel posted:You're assuming that someone is going to grab TRO 3085 off the shelf and not at some point notice that it's just a fluff book which is somewhat of a flawed premise. The starter box is a fine introduction to the game, and it's pretty much the de-facto thing for any wargamer to buy when looking at a new system. Your conclusion is solid, but really? Mentioning GW as an example or not maintaining compatability? Dude..... just no. But no, I'm not talking about picking up TRO 3085 with zero understanding of the game. I'm talking about the learning curve between a standing start and being able to understand the latest CGL news release. The gap between Tech 1 and Tech 2 is large, and Battletech is very complex for a wargame even at Tech 1. I don't see why you're discarding GW out of hand, when they sell a very similar game and haven't shrunken down to a tiny rump fanbase.
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Jan 31, 2013 20:40
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2750 is awesome, mang. It was basically 3025 scale combat but with better tech and everyone dressing up their units in pirate costumes so they can pretend not to know. "Police actions of the Star League" actually turned out to be awesome.
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Jan 31, 2013 20:40
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jng2058 posted:The closest the Clans had to that was Turtle Bay, and they only did it the once. On that scale? Yes. The Smoke Jaguars were pretty big on putting resistors to the sword though, and the other Clans did too to some degree or another. For all the talk about Clan Wolf having the lightest footprint, they'd still shoot the hell out of protestors. Then again, shooting rioters is pretty much one of the things Inner Sphere powers go out of their way to hire mercenaries to do. But anyway, this discussion is getting pretty far afield of things that are directly relevent to the thread. I don't want to discourage people from talking about BattleTech, but we're not here to solve Catalyst's problems. Edit: I'll start the update process as soon as I get home from work. Discussion about the canon BattleTech universe is still A-OK, but try not to scare new readers away with huge essays. We have a megathread for those. VVV Well, huge essays about canon are totally OK. Huge essays about how Catalyst is loving up probably belong in the megathread. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 21:17
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Huge essays are some of the best parts of this thread. Which reminds me...
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Jan 31, 2013 21:27
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Defiance Industries posted:2750 is awesome, mang. It was basically 3025 scale combat but with better tech and everyone dressing up their units in pirate costumes so they can pretend not to know. "Police actions of the Star League" actually turned out to be awesome. I would be delighted if they restarted Battletech back during the SLDF. SLDF/C* mechs are some of my favorite, and gently caress the Periphery always. The setting would be a lot better if it involved more Periphery torment.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:37
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I would love that, unironically. That'd let people have their military games and have "It's broke and passed down from father to son" game simultaneously. Plus, we'd get to see more Camerons Behaving Badly while the SLDF struggles to keep things from falling apart and a menacing personage from outside manipulates things to his own ends. I am, of course, referring to one Mr. Jerome Blake.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:40
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I was kinda surprised that Blake seems semi-decent in the 2750 books. He comes off a lot better than Kerensky for sure.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:43
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Defiance Industries posted:I was kinda surprised that Blake seems semi-decent in the 2750 books. He comes off a lot better than Kerensky for sure. Blake was just trying to keep the interplanetary phones working. A humble man with a humble ambition. It's those who came after him that started loving things up.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:48
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The original ComStar source book is a good read for early Blake stuff. It has the revised Focht history and WoB "truth" edits. Vvvv: That's putting it lightly. Taerkar fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 21:51
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landcollector posted:Blake was just trying to keep the interplanetary phones working. A humble man with a humble ambition. It's those who came after him that started loving things up. Conrad Toyama is the king of jerks.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:52
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Defiance Industries posted:I was kinda surprised that Blake seems semi-decent in the 2750 books. He comes off a lot better than Kerensky for sure. I'm twisting things intentionally. If we're talking a reboot I don't any advantage in keeping everything the same. Just enough to keep things familiar.
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Jan 31, 2013 21:57
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landcollector posted:Blake was just trying to keep the interplanetary phones working. A humble man with a humble ambition. It's those who came after him that started loving things up. Eh, most of the other Hegemony leaders who were supposedly "just trying to keep things together" were wildly self-aggrandizing like DeChevelier or totally unable to do anything that wasn't smashing things and killing people like Kerensky. Blake actually seemed like he had his poo poo together. PoptartsNinja posted:I'm twisting things intentionally. If we're talking a reboot I don't any advantage in keeping everything the same. Just enough to keep things familiar. I think it's more of a twist to have something associated with Blake be both competent and beneficent. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 21:59
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^^^ That'd be Amaris's role. Speaking of twists, the next political update is going to be fun. I've missed them. Update process is beginning! Update status: Nobody has died (yet)!
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Jan 31, 2013 22:14
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Blake and Amaris can be the only reliable narrators. They are portrayed so poorly in future literature because they forgot to hire someone to spin things for them.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:16
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Political updates are the most wonderful thing. Look at how bananas our Inner Sphere has become due to goon interference.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:17
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Someone very important is going to die. VVVVV Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Victor Steiner-Davion New Avalon wgah'nagl fhtagn PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 22:21
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Is it a dimension-hopping VSD? Please say it is!
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Jan 31, 2013 22:23
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PoptartsNinja posted:Someone very important is going to die. The Primus seems like a stiff wind could do that.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:26
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Would I ever kill off anyone so obvious?
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Jan 31, 2013 22:33
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KnoxZone posted:I would be delighted if they restarted Battletech back during the SLDF. SLDF/C* mechs are some of my favorite, and gently caress the Periphery always. The setting would be a lot better if it involved more Periphery torment. No Vindicators in the Star League days so your idea is terrible (sorry.)
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Jan 31, 2013 22:38
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PoptartsNinja posted:Someone very important is going to die. Someone drops Vlad Ward's beaker.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:39
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jng2058 posted:You know, how no one plays in 2700 to do "police actions of the Star League". Cease to Hope posted:People totally do pick up TRO 30XX off the shelf with no idea how BT works other than having maybe played MW4 years ago. It's a book full of pictures of giant robots, and 3085 is the most attractive print TRO since... ever, really. People like giant space robots.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:Someone very important is going to die. RIP Korean Robert. Your death shall not go unavenged.
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Jan 31, 2013 22:44
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KnoxZone posted:RIP Korean Robert. Your death shall not go unavenged. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! /vader VV: Second place is the same as first loser in my book. 
anakha fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 22:46
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^^^^Mine's better.KnoxZone posted:RIP Korean Robert. Your death shall not go unavenged. Noooooooooooo!!! Zeroisanumber fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 31, 2013 |
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Jan 31, 2013 22:48
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PoptartsNinja posted:Would I ever kill off anyone so obvious? The obviousness is what makes it surprising. Because I know that you know that everyone suspects it so they know that you know you won't do it.
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Jan 31, 2013 23:01
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Defiance Industries posted:The obviousness is what makes it surprising. Because I know that you know that everyone suspects it so they know that you know you won't do it. That's it. We've hit peak PTN, game over.
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Jan 31, 2013 23:43
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