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If Harry's dad was anything other than a plain vanilla mortal the whole tone of the series changes. Harrys' whole thing is that he's a Regular Joe fighting long odds. Without a Regular Joe dad then both his parents are Magictm and we might as well change his last name to Potter.
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Feb 4, 2013 20:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If Harry's dad was anything other than a plain vanilla mortal the whole tone of the series changes. Wouldn't be the first time Butcher did that with a character in a series he was writing. Remember what happened to the main character in the Codex Alera books.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:20
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The difference is that in Alera, the hints were being slapped in your face pretty early on, and it was always intended to be that way. With Dresden, we're over half the series in with only a single possible hook from back in book 2, and a nibble in book 7 - and neither of those really have much to do with Malcolm's nature. I'd really like it if what we know stayed true. Harry's dad was just a good guy, and pure vanilla. Margaret fell for him because, after a lifetime of White Council intrigue and power plays, he was just a good-hearted person. Maybe his death had a deeper significance, but I'd really like at least one person of note to just be average. I'm a bit more curious about Margaret's deal. I just finished Changes again this morning. McCoy mentioned that Ariana learned of his being Margaret's father because of a dinner while she was shacking up with Raith. You might be able to chalk Lord Raith up to "rebellious daughter throws it to the wind and throws in with incubus", but inviting a Red Court noble? Seems coincidental. Is there a deeper play going on with Margaret there - she's on terms with two of the three courts we've seen on screen. Also, what was the White Council counterstroke? Ariana made them too sick to fight back, but the Merlin is pretty clear he intends to wipe them all out, and never gets the chance to. I'd really like to know what his plan was, or if he knew about Maggie and the bloodline curse and pissed Dresden off enough to send him after the red court. He shows up on screen just long enough to rile Harry up, talk about eradicating the red court and leaves again.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:30
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Mortanis posted:Also, what was the White Council counterstroke? Ariana made them too sick to fight back, but the Merlin is pretty clear he intends to wipe them all out, and never gets the chance to. I'd really like to know what his plan was, or if he knew about Maggie and the bloodline curse and pissed Dresden off enough to send him after the red court. He shows up on screen just long enough to rile Harry up, talk about eradicating the red court and leaves again. My best guess is that the White Council generated some kind of entropy curse against the Red King that made everything Harry was trying more probable. In other words, yeah, the Merlin aimed Harry like an arrow, possibly with some degree of magical backup.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:33
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Mortanis posted:Also, what was the White Council counterstroke? Ariana made them too sick to fight back, but the Merlin is pretty clear he intends to wipe them all out, and never gets the chance to. I'd really like to know what his plan was, or if he knew about Maggie and the bloodline curse and pissed Dresden off enough to send him after the red court. He shows up on screen just long enough to rile Harry up, talk about eradicating the red court and leaves again. The Merlin always has three plans. The plan, the backup plan, and the ace in the hole. I don't know what his plan or his backup plan was, but I feel pretty certain that Aiming Harry at the Red Court and standing back was his ace in the hole.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The biggest question I have about Harry's mother is how exactly she got her death curse to "stick" when Lord Raith seems to be otherwise immune to magic. It could have been some kind of connection between the white court vamp and his lover. He'd been chewing on her soul, so I can see that being a magical conduit even if he's otherwise immune.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:41
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docbeard posted:The Merlin always has three plans. The plan, the backup plan, and the ace in the hole. I don't know what his plan or his backup plan was, but I feel pretty certain that Aiming Harry at the Red Court and standing back was his ace in the hole. Wait, the Merlin isn't stupid, an rear end in a top hat yeah, but not stupid. Just like Harry realized in Turn Coat, he has 'the Darth Vader' effect. Harry isn't just an obnoxious walking political liability, he's been through scrapes that would have flattened Wizards 100 years his senior, he doesn't quit, and he never shuts up, and he has demonstrated an unwavering loyalty to many of the council's goals (but not loyalty to the council per se). I kinda think Merlin aiming Harry at the red court like that was more plan A or B. However, I also have a sneaking suspicion the Merlin may also have some sympathy or connection to the grey council, probably nothing overt, and likely even double blind to ensure deniability (dude is essentially a Wizard Politician) but I think somehow the Grey Council's appearance at the battle of Chichen Itza was the "Ace in the hole" plan.
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Feb 4, 2013 21:52
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^^^^ - I wonder if Harry will eventually forgo his grey council schemes and become the Merlin at some point. And/or replace the Gatekeeper. He seems to be getting very powerful, very rapidly. It would be pretty bizarre if he eventually became The Merlin and started time traveling...(that wouldn't prevent me from reading the books, though)Amateur Sketch posted:It could have been some kind of connection between the white court vamp and his lover. He'd been chewing on her soul, so I can see that being a magical conduit even if he's otherwise immune. I'm not sure if "lover" would be the right word. If she loved him, he wouldn't be able to feed on her, right? VVV - I thought death curses were, by their very nature, spur of the moment things. At least Harry doesn't have to worry about the death curse that he was hit with anymore. However, couldn't he be hit with one that said something like "you can't use magic anymore"? Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Feb 4, 2013 |
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Feb 4, 2013 22:12
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They sired a bloodline together, and the curse is connected to Thomas. It probably has something to do with that. It sounds like she had it in mind for a while, and it wasn't a spur of the moment type of thing.
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Feb 4, 2013 22:14
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I want Malcolm to remain exactly what we've been led to believe, a vanilla mortal who loved the idea of (stage) magic, and who through basic kindness and love managed to rescue Maggie from the dark path she was walking with Lord Raith.
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Feb 4, 2013 23:43
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keiran_helcyan posted:I want Malcolm to remain exactly what we've been led to believe, a vanilla mortal who loved the idea of (stage) magic, and who through basic kindness and love managed to rescue Maggie from the dark path she was walking with Lord Raith. I hope she took him on awesome vacations. 
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Feb 4, 2013 23:45
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Alcholism Rocks posted:^^^^ - I wonder if Harry will eventually forgo his grey council schemes and become the Merlin at some point. And/or replace the Gatekeeper. He seems to be getting very powerful, very rapidly. It would be pretty bizarre if he eventually became The Merlin and started time traveling...(that wouldn't prevent me from reading the books, though) It's been implied he will become the Merlin at some point through the foreshadowing such has the books being his wizard journals and that he will one day inherit the original Merlin's journals. He has 2 holy swords to Merlin's 1, etc. I doubt he will be the Gatekeeper though, Harry is now the Warden, the Gatekeeper's equal. He imprisons the great evils that are on Earth. He is also now the Winter Knight, which Cold Days showed to be at the very least, the Gatekeeper's ally in holding the Outer Gates. Alcholism Rocks posted:VVV - I thought death curses were, by their very nature, spur of the moment things. At least Harry doesn't have to worry about the death curse that he was hit with anymore. However, couldn't he be hit with one that said something like "you can't use magic anymore"? Death curses have to be cast still, a wizard who isn't expecting death won't have time to cast it. That's a big plot point. A wizard can think about what kind of death curse they want to cast, I think Harry even has one planned out just in case he dies in battle in Changes.
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Feb 4, 2013 23:49
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The way Harry talks about his death curse implies he definitely has it planned out and it's something along the lines of "make everything in the immediate vicinity explode".
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Feb 5, 2013 01:26
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FigurativelyHitler posted:The way Harry talks about his death curse implies he definitely has it planned out and it's something along the lines of "make everything in the immediate vicinity explode". Please, he can do that already, unless by "immediate vicinity" you mean "the tri-state area".
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Feb 5, 2013 01:47
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FigurativelyHitler posted:The way Harry talks about his death curse implies he definitely has it planned out and it's something along the lines of "make everything in the immediate vicinity explode". Harry's death curse would probably be something that would psychologically torment his killer forever: "The only thing that will ever make you happy is eating your own feces while other people are watching." Or something simple like "You will have an uncontrollable urge to kill all of your children." VVVV - I'm pretty sure the starborn thing is merely a reference to his use of soulfire. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 01:56
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That's all interesting stuff. I was referring to the way we know almost nothing about Harry's dad. Also that his mother was human and mortal, and I'm almost certain that Harry's specialness as a "starborn" has to do with more than just the time and place of his birth. docbeard posted:He did say he was only allowed to appear to Harry because something had changed, with the implication being that Lasciel's shadow awakening within him was the impetus for that change. Unless Michael swore an oath never to mention it. Which he would keep, no matter the circumstances or how much you tortured him.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:56
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AlphaDog posted:That's all interesting stuff. I was referring to the way we know almost nothing about Harry's dad. Also that his mother was human and mortal, and I'm almost certain that Harry's specialness as a "starborn" has to do with more than just the time and place of his birth. That's not entirely true. If keeping that secret put his family (especially his children) in danger, he'd speak up.
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Feb 5, 2013 02:42
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apostateCourier posted:That's not entirely true. If keeping that secret put his family (especially his children) in danger, he'd speak up. Yeah, there's that. I don't think it's actually what's going to happen, it's just that Michael is really unlikely to break a promise.
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Feb 5, 2013 02:54
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Something that occurred to me while reading this is I wonder if each of the 'titled' council members have a specific law of magic they're allowed to break. Gatekeeper - Travels beyond the gates to the Outsiders Blackstaff - Kills with magic The Merlin - Travels time? From the part of the legend that Merlin lived his life backwards
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Feb 5, 2013 05:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The biggest question I have about Harry's mother is how exactly she got her death curse to "stick" when Lord Raith seems to be otherwise immune to magic. I took it as she out-thought it. Basically Papa Raith has protection against attacks on him, so she targeted around him. Think Harry vs Shagnasty. Like he told Bob, Shagnasty had defense too tough for him to punch through so he was going to go after the environment, which he did - he looped Shaggy around the throat and tried to let him defeat himself. Of course, Bob said Shagnasty would be too smart for that, and he was, but the same principle applies. Maggie couldn't punch through Lord Raith's defenses. So she bound him within them - nothing in, nothing out now applies to all power, not just offensive power.
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Feb 5, 2013 05:08
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Have we any speculation as to who the third mother is? We've got Clotho for Mother Summer, Atropos for Mother Winter. Who's Lachesis?
Dietrich fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 05:11
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Dietrich posted:Have we any speculation as to who the third mother is? We've got Clotho for Mother Summer, Atropos for Mother Winter. Who's Lachesis? Theoretically, there's an Autumn Court*, or maybe just an in-between court, or the Wild Fae have a Lady, Queen, and Mother too, and their natures are different from the Winter/Summer thing. *The RPG books mention that there used to be an Autumn court, in a side note. Maybe there is/was a Spring Court too. Who knows?
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Feb 5, 2013 06:12
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AlphaDog posted:*The RPG books mention that there used to be an Autumn court, in a side note. Maybe there is/was a Spring Court too. Who knows? It's more that the RPG puts forth the idea to give people a bit of creativity in character concepts outside of what the books actually say is the case, so sessions don't devolve into "the Cast of the Dresden Files go on interactive adventures." Also, to go back to Denarianchat for a bit, I don't know why everyone thinks Michael would pick up a coin. If any Carpenter picks up a coin, it's going to be his son Daniel, who - as shown in Ghost Story - is exactly the kind of righteously stupid, headstrong twit who would think "everyone else has been taken over or corrupted by the Denarian coins, but I'm special and awesome and totally capable of beating a 6,000 year old fallen angel in mind games, and I'll do it for the greater good!" For bonus irony points, he'd probably run off and do it after a Sword rejected him for not having pure intentions in wielding it. Basically what I'm saying is that Daniel is a prime candidate for Darth Vaderization here.
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Feb 5, 2013 06:27
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mr. stefan posted:It's more that the RPG puts forth the idea to give people a bit of creativity in character concepts outside of what the books actually say is the case, so sessions don't devolve into "the Cast of the Dresden Files go on interactive adventures." Yeah, but Butcher had a lot of input in the RPG, apparently including all the little character snippets beside the text, which is where that is mentioned. I'm not saying that the books are definitely going in that direction, but that's how his mind seems to work - If there's Summer and Winter and Unaligned, that means that there's the potential for Autumn and Spring and possibly other stuff if he has a cool idea. For instance, an active Autumn Court doesn't make sense so far (it would have been mentioned), but imagine a plot about someone trying to revive the hibernating Mother Autumn...
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Feb 5, 2013 06:40
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mr. stefan posted:It's more that the RPG puts forth the idea to give people a bit of creativity in character concepts outside of what the books actually say is the case, so sessions don't devolve into "the Cast of the Dresden Files go on interactive adventures." Seems pretty likely. And it would make Harry's life worse, which as we all know, is nearly a surefire way to see that it'd happen, along with the chances of explosions.
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Feb 5, 2013 07:05
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404GoonNotFound posted:Please, he can do that already Well, yeah. But it's not usually visible from space. AlphaDog posted:Yeah, but Butcher had a lot of input in the RPG, apparently including all the little character snippets beside the text, which is where that is mentioned. According to quotes floating around from Jim and the folks who did the RPG most of his input was limited to pointing out things that contradicted established canon. But they were good enough at guessing that there were some things where he actually had to say "No, you can't print that because no one is supposed to know about it for another five books." So, it's possible, but not really likely or it would have gotten pulled.
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Feb 5, 2013 07:11
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Stroth posted:According to quotes floating around from Jim and the folks who did the RPG most of his input was limited to pointing out things that contradicted established canon. But they were good enough at guessing that there were some things where he actually had to say "No, you can't print that because no one is supposed to know about it for another five books." So, it's possible, but not really likely or it would have gotten pulled. Yeah, they actually guessed that Chichen Itza was gonna be a thing two books early, and he let them keep it behind a black mask that you could just C/P the text from.
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Feb 5, 2013 07:19
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veekie posted:Seems pretty likely. And it would make Harry's life worse, which as we all know, is nearly a surefire way to see that it'd happen, along with the chances of explosions. On top of that Daniel was the one screwed in the brain by the monsters who stole Molly which adds extra heaping helps of guilt there and we all know Butcher loves making Molly's life crap.
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Feb 5, 2013 15:09
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Based on a recommendation earlier in this thread, I picked up the first three books of the Laundry Files from Amazon. I'm a third of the way through the first one, and it's pretty great so far. It seems to be one third each of spy thriller, lovecraft, and office-worker satire. I'm enjoying the hell out of it and have no idea where it's going. It hasn't grabbed my attention quite as hard as Dresden Files, but it has a very similar vibe to it without being a similar plotline and universe. I particularly love how magic exists but it's been all science-ified, with laser pentacles and palmtop computer based tracking spells and stuff, and the government is covering it all up (spoilers for the first few pages of the novel in case you want to be surprised).
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Feb 6, 2013 03:19
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AlphaDog posted:Based on a recommendation earlier in this thread, I picked up the first three books of the Laundry Files from Amazon. The second book is what really suckered me in, but still not to the point where I have to go out and read the next one right now. But I feel that way about all Charles Stross books. They're good but I never feel the need to run after the next sometimes I just have to decompress for a few months first.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:20
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Was I the only one that really hated Daniel's whiny bitchiness in Ghost Story? God I couldn't stand him.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:22
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FigurativelyHitler posted:They sired a bloodline together, and the curse is connected to Thomas. It probably has something to do with that. It sounds like she had it in mind for a while, and it wasn't a spur of the moment type of thing. I honestly read the whole thing as her death curse is what caused the White Kings magic immunity. And that implied it was magical in order for them to feed. I looked at it as she hated him so much she wanted him to starve to death as he slowly weakened but needed to anchor it in Thomas. At least that was my impression, I never got that he was randomly immune to magic when no other White Court vampire was. I thought that was the event that caused it.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:43
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Ramadu posted:I honestly read the whole thing as her death curse is what caused the White Kings magic immunity. And that implied it was magical in order for them to feed. I looked at it as she hated him so much she wanted him to starve to death as he slowly weakened but needed to anchor it in Thomas. At least that was my impression, I never got that he was randomly immune to magic when no other White Court vampire was. I thought that was the event that caused it. In the same book Ebenezar flat out states that Raith got to where he is because of some big bad demon/force that protects him from magic. Margaret just stole his mojo.
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Feb 6, 2013 08:57
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Hughlander posted:Something that occurred to me while reading this is I wonder if each of the 'titled' council members have a specific law of magic they're allowed to break. Didn't they say (either in the RPG or the books, I don't recall) that the Blackstaff is allowed to break any of the laws if he/she needs to in the course of their duties? So really, he could do any of that illegal stuff, we just haven't seen him do it?
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Feb 6, 2013 19:15
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Dushkani posted:Didn't they say (either in the RPG or the books, I don't recall) that the Blackstaff is allowed to break any of the laws if he/she needs to in the course of their duties? So really, he could do any of that illegal stuff, we just haven't seen him do it? Yeah, in Blood Rites, when Ebenezar first explains what being the Blackstaff means, he goes through the entire list of the seven laws (which might be the first time they're listed in their entirety) as things he alone is authorized to do.
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Feb 6, 2013 19:46
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CainsDescendant posted:In the same book Ebenezar flat out states that Raith got to where he is because of some big bad demon/force that protects him from magic. Margaret just stole his mojo. Sounds like Outsiders, given their innate magic-resistance.
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Feb 6, 2013 22:04
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Argas posted:Sounds like Outsiders, given their innate magic-resistance. He made a deal with HWWB. She got around that by starving him and tying the magic to her kids.
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Feb 7, 2013 00:36
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wiegieman posted:He made a deal with HWWB. She got around that by starving him and tying the magic to her kids. You know, it suddenly occurs to me, that if Lord Raith's magic immunity was indeed Outsider-sourced, then tying her death curse to Harry in particular might have been key to making it work.
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Feb 7, 2013 01:43
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CainsDescendant posted:In the same book Ebenezar flat out states that Raith got to where he is because of some big bad demon/force that protects him from magic. Margaret just stole his mojo. You know, I just assumed that the big force that protected him was the death curse she leveled on him. To force him to starve to death I guess.
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Feb 7, 2013 02:55
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Ramadu posted:You know, I just assumed that the big force that protected him was the death curse she leveled on him. To force him to starve to death I guess. If he didn't have anything protecting him she'd have just Death Cursed him to death rather than go to such convoluted and ineffective means. You wouldn't spend the last of your magic and life on something like that if you could hurt him.
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Feb 7, 2013 03:12
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