Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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NightGyr: Mar 7, 2005; I � Unicode

grover posted:

It's doubtful the "full-scale" aircraft is even capable of flight. Most people are speculating what's seen flying is an R/C model. Even to my untrained eye, there are obvious omissions, like no HUD or HMD (and thus incapable of combat) and there's no way that exhaust design would work without the fiberglass burning. No room for radar in the nose. No pitot tubes, no antennas, etc. And the design is not only unconventional, it's nonsensical. I'm surprised the R/C model was capable of flight, really.

Lots of things work at scale that wouldn't work full size. Just look at the flying lawnmower on YouTube.

# ? Feb 4, 2013 03:35

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:06

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

grover posted:

It's doubtful the "full-scale" aircraft is even capable of flight. Most people are speculating what's seen flying is an R/C model. Even to my untrained eye, there are obvious omissions, like no HUD or HMD (and thus incapable of combat) and there's no way that exhaust design would work without the fiberglass burning. No room for radar in the nose. No pitot tubes, no antennas, etc. And the design is not only unconventional, it's nonsensical. I'm surprised the R/C model was capable of flight, really.

How does lack of a HUD or HMD make it incapable of combat?

# ? Feb 4, 2013 03:37

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

vulturesrow posted:

How does lack of a HUD or HMD make it incapable of combat?

Sorry, was assuming modern aircraft, but it doesn't even have an old-school iron sight. Also, appears to lack guns or missile hardpoints. And doesn't have radar. Or even non-distortive glass. There are things that are absolutely necessary for combat. Though, I guess they could pack it full of explosides and kamikaze ram a ship or something, but that's not really what they seem to be going for.

# ? Feb 4, 2013 05:12

Previa_fun: Nov 10, 2004

Distortion through the cockpit glass? Heh, let me tell you all something about beyond visual range combat. :smug:

_{Don't ask me about landing.}

# ? Feb 4, 2013 07:52

OptimusMatrix: Nov 13, 2003; ASK ME ABOUT MUTILATING MY PET TO SUIT MY OWN AESTHETIC PREFERENCES

iyaayas01 posted:

Basically this is what should've been playing when they unveiled the aircraft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0CyOAO8y0

For some reason I always hear this in my mind when I look at that "Iranian Fighter"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5inpbUWwczw

# ? Feb 4, 2013 07:52

Micr0chiP: Mar 17, 2007

Maybe they've developed the HUD in the helmet thing (without lag) and internal payload before the F-35

# ? Feb 4, 2013 13:28

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Micr0chiP posted:

Maybe they've developed the HUD in the helmet thing (without lag) and internal payload before the F-35

I bet Iran paints crosshairs on helmet with green-glowing radium paint and calls it helmet mounted display for PR purposes.

e: Here's the helmet from the press-release photos.

grover fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Feb 4, 2013

# ? Feb 4, 2013 15:53

AzureSkys: Apr 27, 2003

There are a few more pictures here:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/02/irans-new-qaher-313-stealth-fi.html

I can't rehost them at the moment.

# ? Feb 4, 2013 15:57

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

AzureSkys posted:

There are a few more pictures here:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2013/02/irans-new-qaher-313-stealth-fi.html

I can't rehost them at the moment.

The video at the bottom of that link is hilarious. When the pilot sits in it, the damned thing wobbles around like when I hoist my fat rear end into a 150. This is obviously 100% for Iranian domestic consumption, "LOOK AT HOW THE GLORIOUS ISLAMIC REVOLUTION EMBRACES TECHNOLOGY," and poo poo, because nobody else who's spent even a few minutes around aircraft is going to believe that poo poo.

# ? Feb 4, 2013 16:07

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

STATE OF THE ART TECHNOLOGY

for a home made canoe

# ? Feb 4, 2013 17:55

Kilonum: Sep 30, 2002; You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

And now Gizmodo is laughing at it.

http://gizmodo.com/5981525/why-irans-new-indigenous-stealth-fighter-will-never-get-off-the-ground

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: Laughing at Iranian Aviation since 1979

# ? Feb 4, 2013 23:00

Tremblay: Oct 8, 2002; More dog whistles than a Petco

Kilonum posted:

And now Gizmodo is laughing at it.

http://gizmodo.com/5981525/why-irans-new-indigenous-stealth-fighter-will-never-get-off-the-ground

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: Laughing at Iranian Aviation since 1979

Gizmodo writers can barely speak to anything above a third grade level. Jesus Diaz needs to get his eyes stabbed out. Sam Biddle isn't any better.

# ? Feb 4, 2013 23:57

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

MrYenko posted:

The video at the bottom of that link is hilarious. When the pilot sits in it, the damned thing wobbles around like when I hoist my fat rear end into a 150. This is obviously 100% for Iranian domestic consumption, "LOOK AT HOW THE GLORIOUS ISLAMIC REVOLUTION EMBRACES TECHNOLOGY," and poo poo, because nobody else who's spent even a few minutes around aircraft is going to believe that poo poo.

either that or it's a bit of disinformation propaganda.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 00:12

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

It's all a clever disinformation ploy- leak details from an obviously fake project to hide the REAL stealth fighter development in plain sight. It's brilliant- if any details of the real stealth fighter leak out, they'll be dismissed out of hand.

Yeah, that's it, I'm sure of it. Iran's got a long and glorious track record of highly successful indigenous weapons projects.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 00:28

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

grover posted:

It's all a clever disinformation ploy- leak details from an obviously fake project to hide the REAL stealth fighter development in plain sight. It's brilliant- if any details of the real stealth fighter leak out, they'll be dismissed out of hand.

Yeah, that's it, I'm sure of it. Iran's got a long and glorious track record of highly successful indigenous weapons projects.

Well, they did manage to kludge Hawk SAMs into service as AA missiles on their Tomcats.

Or at least hang them there for the cameras.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 00:31

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

grover posted:

Yeah, that's it, I'm sure of it. Iran's got a long and glorious track record of highly successful indigenous weapons projects.

Of course they-

...don't.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 00:33

Duckboat: May 15, 2012

MrYenko posted:

Of course they-

...don't.

"Our missiles will blot out the sun!because they've been photoshop-pasted over it"

# ? Feb 5, 2013 03:33

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

grover posted:

It's all a clever disinformation ploy- leak details from an obviously fake project to hide the REAL stealth fighter development in plain sight. It's brilliant- if any details of the real stealth fighter leak out, they'll be dismissed out of hand.

Yeah, we did that with the F-117 and the B-2, it worked pretty well. Not that I think Iran is following suit, but it's a legit good idea.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:07

Plinkey: Aug 4, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

Godholio posted:

Yeah, we did that with the F-117 and the B-2, it worked pretty well. Not that I think Iran is following suit, but it's a legit good idea.

Do you have any links to examples/stories for these. Sounds pretty interesting.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:09

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Plinkey posted:

Do you have any links to examples/stories for these. Sounds pretty interesting.

IYAAYAS does. CONSTANT PEG (the MiG program in Nevada) was used to cover for the F-117, and I remember the F-117 was used to cover for the B-2.

Edit: Christ I'm a moron.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Feb 5, 2013

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:16

Chillbro Baggins: Oct 8, 2004; Bad Angus! Bad!

Plinkey posted:

Do you have any links to examples/stories for these. Sounds pretty interesting.

Either you're under 21, or old and hip enough to not remember the '80s. Here's the stealth fighter of my youth:

It was rather jarring when the real thing was publicly acknowledged.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:25

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Plinkey posted:

Do you have any links to examples/stories for these. Sounds pretty interesting.

Like Godholio said, read up on CONSTANT PEG (you should do this anyway because it is an amazing story and Steve Davies's book on the subject is quite readable). The cliff notes version is that it was basically a cover story within a cover story...the Red Eagles were flying MiGs from Tonopah, but from the start of the Red Eagle program there were people high up in the USAF's SAP/black world at the Pentagon that were planning on using it as cover for the F-117. So since CONSTANT PEG started off as a black program, there were cover stories established as to why there were dudes going up there to fly...most of them involved flying random aircraft up to Tonopah for random things to establish that there was a benign USAF presence there (it started life as a DOE airfield supporting nuclear testing), but nothing to hint at what the true purpose of the increased presence was. By the mid '80s CONSTANT PEG was more of a grey world open secret (even the Soviets knew we had MiGs up there by then, although they didn't know what we were doing with them, which was the real secret), but this was right around the same time that the F-117 program was ramping up, also at Tonopah...so CONSTANT PEG made a very convenient unofficial "cover" story for why the airfield was being expanded and built up, as well as for the increased activity there, especially since it was still ostensibly classified but such an open secret that almost everyone in a position to be asking detailed questions about Tonopah (i.e., folks in uniform) knew about the MiGs. "Oh, you're wondering what's going on up there? Well, I can't tell you, but...you know...it's Tonopah...*wink*"

There was also the "F-19" bit with the F-117, as well as the "Aurora" program name being tied to the B-2.

e: Just to add to the F-19 thing, it wasn't just models and children's toys that were taken in by that, publications like Aviation Week and the like were saying that was what the new stealth aircraft looked like.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:28

ickna: May 19, 2004

Delivery McGee posted:

.

I built a model of this one as a kid, and it was the best. I was a bit disappointed when they unveiled the F-117 and it looked like a flying pyramid.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:33

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

ickna posted:

I built a model of this one as a kid, and it was the best. I was a bit disappointed when they unveiled the F-117 and it looked like a flying pyramid.

I have the GI Joe version of this, but it's in absolutely terrible shape rotting outside in my parents' back yard.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:44

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

I got to participate in an exercise a while back at Tonopah Test Range and we stayed at the place where everyone was housed during the F-117 development. Wikipedia has a good article on TTR; Mancamp is the place where we stayed. The road between the airfield proper and Mancamp is no kidding open, high desert range. It was pretty funny when we got a brief from the security guys and they told us "You really want to stick to the posted speed limits because there is a good chance you'll hit a wild horse if you don't." Staying there was pretty cool and tad bit spooky for some reason.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 05:46

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Delivery McGee posted:

I like how it's flying into the sun

In retrospect the 'fighter' bit was kind of misleading. Though I've read the F-19 design has a small radar cross section.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 06:24

HandlingByJebus: Jun 21, 2009; All of a sudden, I found myself in love with the world, so there was only one thing I could do:
was ding a ding dang, my dang a long racecar.

It's a love affair. Mainly jebus, and my racecar.

Delivery McGee posted:

Either you're under 21, or old and hip enough to not remember the '80s. Here's the stealth fighter of my youth:

It was rather jarring when the real thing was publicly acknowledged.

I played the F-19 Stealth Fighter slight sim a thousand times. Loved the hell out of it. This is still a beautiful "aircraft" to me. :allears:

# ? Feb 5, 2013 06:29

Finger Prince: Jan 5, 2007

grover posted:

It's all a clever disinformation ploy- leak details from an obviously fake project to hide the REAL stealth fighter development in plain sight. It's brilliant- if any details of the real stealth fighter leak out, they'll be dismissed out of hand.

Yeah, that's it, I'm sure of it. Iran's got a long and glorious track record of highly successful indigenous weapons projects.

More likely a photo op on the film set of "Top Gun: Iran" distributed out of context by Mossad or just some keen anti-iranian hobbyist. It's not like they don't know what a western stealth fighter looks like, they have Internet.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 10:24

Tsuru: May 12, 2008

Raikyn posted:

I did a couple of wallpapers for someone

With all the spergin' about stealth this is not getting enough love. Glorious new desktop found... thank you!

# ? Feb 5, 2013 11:00

RandomPauI: Nov 24, 2006; Grimey Drawer

I hope someone makes an Iranian "Stealth Fighter" kit plane. It'd be like flying building and flying something from GI Joe.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 15:14

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Linedance posted:

More likely a photo op on the film set of "Top Gun: Iran" distributed out of context by Mossad or just some keen anti-iranian hobbyist. It's not like they don't know what a western stealth fighter looks like, they have Internet.

Problem being, one of the requirements for this fighter program was that it be able to fit on the largest turntable the country currently produces.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 16:21

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

A student posted:

I hope someone makes an Iranian "Stealth Fighter" kit plane. It'd be like flying building and flying something from GI Joe.

It should get stocked along with the anime and Warhammer kits.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 16:22

azflyboy: Nov 9, 2005

Godholio posted:

Yeah, we did that with the F-117 and the B-2, it worked pretty well.

There's also an interesting story about the cover program used to train early F-117 pilots and test some of the security measures in place for the Nighthawk.

Since the F-117 hadn't entered production yet, the USAF took some of the A-7's they were using, painted them black, and then added drop tanks equipped with a flashing light and all kinds of ominous warnings/labels like "reactor coolant filling port". A story was allowed to leak about the drop tanks being some kind of super-secret radar jamming technology, and armed guards often accompanied the A-7's when they flew away from home, going so far as to force ground crews look the other direction when the aircraft were taxiing past.

Once the F-117 entered service, the A-7's were used for a pilot training until the Nighthawk was declassified, at which point T-38's took over the training duties.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 17:28

SyHopeful: Jun 24, 2007; May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

Tremblay posted:

Sam Biddle isn't any better.

I read this post, thought "that name sounds familiar" and then remembered that he is the author of this turd of an article.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 21:18

FullMetalJacket: Apr 5, 2008

Good news everyone!

I landed a job building these bastards:

FullMetalJacket fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 5, 2013

# ? Feb 5, 2013 21:53

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

FullMetalJacket posted:

Good news everyone!

I landed a job building these bastards:

When working on the line, I think it'd be a funny joke to take a coke can and seal it between layers, so that the plane has an annoying rattle its entire life. On the off chance that somebody actually fishes it out, put a note inside that reads "rattles, don't it?"

# ? Feb 5, 2013 22:16

3 Action Economist: May 22, 2002; Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

FullMetalJacket posted:

Good news everyone!

I landed a job building these bastards:

Congratulations.

Now what kind of discount do you get? :v:

# ? Feb 5, 2013 22:18

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

I can't wait until FAA revises rules on UAVs so I can start getting food delivered by quadcopter.
http://www.gizmag.com/burrito-bomber-uav/25468/

Burrito bomber is a good start, though.

MrYenko posted:

Of course they-

...don't.

FYI, there's an Iran/North Korea thread in GiP for anyone who wants to yack about the "stealth fighter" or other shenanigans without derailing this thread.

# ? Feb 5, 2013 23:33