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I decided to go ahead and do some soil therapy. The area doesn't have any grass, just clay, and closer to the house I noticed that there was a fairly thick (2-3 inch) layer of composting pine needles. After raking an area clear to just the clay, I found that the pine-needle compost was kind of marbled in the clay, and the area I tested was almost pure clay. So hope is there. This weekend I cleaned the area I would like to use as a plot, and added 12 lb's of organic soil acidifier to the clay, mixing the pine-needle compost into the clay. I'm hoping that by the end of March I'll start to see an effect. The stuff smelled strong enough. I am planning two 12.5x4" beds. I am starting some peppers and onions inside (the peppers will go in pots), so hopefully everything will work out. When it comes time to plant, I am going to mix in about 100 lbs of compost into each bed, along with some manure and possible chicken poop. So maybe I can make the clay soil work for me a bit. I was also thinking about adding some sand to help it drain. I'll post some pictures of the space soon. It still needs alot of work... going to take two or three weekends before it's really good to go.
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Feb 4, 2013 13:47
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Just FYI you don't want to put fresh manure on your veggie beds. When people talk about adding manure they almost always mean composted manure which is fresh manure mixed with sawdust and aged for at least a few months. Fresh manure is going to be very high in nitrogen that can burn plants and also may have pathogens like e. coli.
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Feb 4, 2013 19:55
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It's tough to amend a full bed's worth of clay in one season. It's easier to just loosen it up then dig your rows and backfill with half native soil and half amendment. The next season till again and do the same. Over time your soil will become amazing. An amended clay soil is an excellent growth substrate especially if you are in an area that is dry.
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Feb 4, 2013 20:53
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Also, a digging fork is a good investment in heavy clay soil. You can get in deeper each time you dig compared to a pointed shovel. You still need a shovel once the dirt is well broken up, but you'll get to that point quicker with a fork.
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Feb 5, 2013 00:48
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AxeBreaker posted:Also, a digging fork is a good investment in heavy clay soil. You can get in deeper each time you dig compared to a pointed shovel. You still need a shovel once the dirt is well broken up, but you'll get to that point quicker with a fork.
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Feb 5, 2013 01:45
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We've had a lot of success with a mattock and a square point shovel here in NC. Just be careful using a mattock and try to keep the edge worth a drat. My grandfather buried one in his shin about an inch deep dicking around several years back.
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Feb 5, 2013 02:55
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cowofwar posted:I bought a mattock and it is god's gift to gardener's with clay. I have a landscaping axe, which is a little lighter (4 lbs) and has an axe head and a mattock head instead of a mattock head with a pick on the other side. It was the only way I could pull up the root ball of a Texas Ranger that was cut down in the back yard.
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Feb 5, 2013 06:25
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^^^^ Best tool for stumps but a little dangerous for trenching - I'm a little uncomfortable with the backswing of an axe head pointing at me, and am still extremely careful about placing my feet with trenching, even after using one for 20 years.  vulturesrow posted:So I didnt know vermiculite was quite so pricy. I guess using the Mel's mix is out for the square foot gardening. Would it be better to just use the dirt underneath or would I have better success building raised beds and just using something cheaper ? coyo7e fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 5, 2013 |
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Feb 5, 2013 20:12
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Hi, have some pictures. Turnips, only planted about 4 feet worth of a row  Garlic, 9 of maybe 25 planted  Radish I think, honestly I forget what I planted here This'll be the first year I go full bore with my garden area. Gonna plant some grape vines pretty soon here, depending on cost and time availability! ixo fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 6, 2013 |
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Feb 6, 2013 02:29
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Apparently, our new house's yard has a deer problem. Does anybody have any suggestions* for deterring these things? * Preferably suggestions that don't involve a .30-30.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:26
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 Gotta say I've never had to deal with deer but it works ok for rear end in a top hat squirrels.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:29
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Peristalsis posted:Apparently, our new house's yard has a deer problem. Does anybody have any suggestions* for deterring these things? There are a lot of things to try but none of them are guaranteed to work. You can increase your chances by using more than one. The two main options are fencing or a good dog. Most people usually opt for a fence. Taller is better but city ordinances usually put restrictions on height so you are limited to 6 feet inside city limits. 6 feet can still work if you get it put up before they learn that you have good things to eat inside. You can tweak the fence in various ways too like making it angle outwards to seem taller or building a second fence close enough that the distance between them isn't enough for a running start to jump over. If you aren't in the city then go nuts with 12 or even 14 feet. I have heard of people hanging old AOL CDs to twist in the wind and scare off deer but I never heard back about how well it worked. Chemical repellents do work but they can be expensive, smell terrible and have to be reapplied periodically.
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Feb 6, 2013 05:50
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I've heard that you can deter deer by stringing heavy-test fishing line between poles around your garden, about shoulder-high for a deer (so like 3 to 3 1/2ft high). Apparently deer get completely freaked out by this magical invisible line they run into and run off spooked because they're dumb as hell. I never was able to test it myself since we don't have deer in my neighborhood, but it seems like a fairly cheap/easy thing to try.
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Feb 6, 2013 13:33
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Marchegiana posted:I've heard that you can deter deer by stringing heavy-test fishing line between poles around your garden, about shoulder-high for a deer (so like 3 to 3 1/2ft high). Apparently deer get completely freaked out by this magical invisible line they run into and run off spooked because they're dumb as hell. I never was able to test it myself since we don't have deer in my neighborhood, but it seems like a fairly cheap/easy thing to try.
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Feb 6, 2013 18:05
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Maybe it's time for a new thread? I just tilled my garden today and also cut a ton of overgrown blackberry branches that were taking over one fence in our yard. I still have to work on part of the back fence and a small greenhouse that might be nice without blackberry bushes  Anyway, despite the Northeast getting a ton of snow, it's starting to slowly warm up in Vancouver, BC. Not spring-like just yet, but thawed. I've got crocuses coming up in a bed near my front door and am trying to plan this year's garden again.
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Feb 10, 2013 09:49
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Over the past week, my wife and I have moved most of our biggest seedlings and our pepper starts to the green house. We put in a heater, and I rigged up an extension cord to the green house in as safe a fashion as I could manage. I Strung it across at 6' high, and I made sure it was wrapped around some of the shelving to prevent it from pulling loose from the heater. It's also on a GFCI circuit, so if it pulls loose and arcs or gets wet at the plug power will cut off. I need the power for a little milk house heater in the greenhouse. It's up on blocks to keep it dry, set on low (1300w, more than adequate) and away from things as much as is possible to avoid melting anything. Thus far it's worked well, keeping overnight temps between 60 and 67 degrees F. I have to open the greenhouse most days though, it gets over 100 if I don't. It's decent for 129$, but I can't recommend a Flowerhouse until they improve the quality of the door zippers. One is stuck half shut and the other had the zipper pull stitched into a nearby seam. I cut it loose with no ill effects but that's still janky. That said, other similar priced greenhouses from Big Lots or Harbor Freight look even flimsier. At least this one is structurally sound! My largely barren backyard, the greenhouse and lovely view of the freeway.  The Greenhouse interior, with potting bench, heater and shelving.  Various tomato and pepper seedlings. I have more tomatoes started inside, and I may start more later if something kills a bunch or to replace the determinates after they fruit. If i want to start melons or cucumbers I should wait til March.  Today, I went and purchased 4 cubic yards of compost thinking that raised beds would be easier than digging up all that clay. However, getting the compost to the backyard from the driveway has been a bitch so far. My lovely plastic-wheeled wheelbarrow doesn't like traveling over the red landscaping rock on the side of the house when heavily loaded, so I either have to bust rear end or make twice as many trips. I've done 3, i was thinking it would take 15 but now it may take 30. AxeBreaker fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Feb 10, 2013 |
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Feb 10, 2013 21:08
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AxeBreaker posted:Today, I went and purchased 4 cubic yards of compost thinking that raised beds would be easier than digging up all that clay. However, getting the compost to the backyard from the driveway has been a bitch so far. My lovely plastic-wheeled wheelbarrow doesn't like traveling over the red landscaping rock on the side of the house when heavily loaded, so I either have to bust rear end or make twice as many trips. I've done 3, i was thinking it would take 15 but now it may take 30. Do the old bricklayer's trick for moving wheelbarrows full of mortar across mud: lay down some boards.
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Feb 10, 2013 23:10
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We bummed a much better regular wheelbarrow from my father in law which made things go a lot quicker. W got maybe 5/6 of it moved today, and from the looks of it 4 cubic yards was too much. The first time I saw this stuff, I was worried about the quality, thinking it was just shredded lawn trash and manure and not adequately composted. Well, within two hours of deliver the core of the pile was steaming hot so it's definitely developed compost. I think it will be fine.
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Feb 11, 2013 05:57
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It will pack down over time once it's in the beds and getting watered. The rest of it can sit in a pile until you need it. You really can't ever have too much finished compost.
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Feb 11, 2013 06:49
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A local gardener has written a couple of books on gardening in my climate. in those books, she makes a big deal about several different products or techniques that are kinda fishy, as well as touting a Tomato variety (Hawaiian Tropic) that is hard to obtain anywhere but a business she used to own. This business also sells all the stuff she recommends in small quantities and inflated prices relative to what I've seen on the net. I've found evidence that quite a lot of the stuff she she suggests could work, but i wonder if any of you have bothered and if so, was it worth the money and effort? Examples: Food Grade diatomaceous earth mixed into water and sprayed on plants as pest repellent/insecticide Powdered kelp mixed into water and used as foliar fertilizer Humic acid as a key component in soil or fertilizer Reflective Mylar sheeting as mulch to improve yield and repel insects Compost/Worm casting tea as a source of beneficial microbes The reflective film there's academic studies about, so I think that may be worth it. Foliar feeding is known, but kelp powder is so weak that I question it's efficacy- it's 0-0-1 before dilution, and the amount of trace minerals isn't listed. DE didn't work that well for me last year, but I still have some and I didn't use it much last year.I think my main pesticide will be BT which I will use as soon as I see moths because Hornworms gave me so much trouble last year. Dunno about the rest of it.
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Feb 15, 2013 00:30
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Speak with confidence about gardening and it's really easy to sway people regardless of the facts. Most gardening books use this principle very effectively. Gardening really isn't that complicated and it doesn't have to be that expensive. Knowledge about the plants, insects and soil is going to do you a lot more good and be much cheaper than the latest fad.AxeBreaker posted:Examples: I haven't used any of these exact techniques, but I also don't think they are all that important. Don't till your garden every year, plant a wide variety of plants and practice at least some crop rotation and you shouldn't ever have any major problems. The wide variety of plants will bring beneficial insects (predators) that eat any pests. Crop rotation should prevent pests too by breaking the lifecycle of pests. Kelp meal is a nice addition to organic fertilizers but it's meant to add the trace minerals and micronutrients that the other NPK fertilizers don't have. If you are using compost then I don't think it's necessary due the expense. If you do want to add some minerals then find some rock dust from a local place. They usually will have a pile of "fines" that anyone can come shovel up for free. Mylar sheeting sound pretty ridiculous. Sure it's going to reflect more light to the plants which is good for higher latitudes, but it's also going to insulate the soil which is better for lower latitudes. It seems like it would be a hassle to install and probably not reusable. Red plastic mulch is pretty well known for helping tomatoes ripen. Compost tea and worm tea are more well known for reducing the chance of diseases than beneficial microbes.
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Feb 15, 2013 00:57
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AxeBreaker posted:Powdered kelp mixed into water and used as foliar fertilizer I can't speak for the rest of that, but personally I think foliar feeding makes about as much sense as telling a person with osteoporosis to climb in a bathtub full of milk. People definitely do use foliar feeding, including some commercial growers, but there's never been any real research that proves it to be effective, that I've found. I don't try anything unless I see it's been written about by the USDA or an extension service, just because there's so much hocus-pocus out there, just like with vitamins and herbs for people.
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Feb 15, 2013 01:14
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Just buy cheap compost and mix it in at the end of the season. Don't waste your money on all that other piss and ink.
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Feb 15, 2013 02:24
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For the mylar mulch keep in mind I'm in Vegas, some kind of mulch is a necessity to keep the soil cool and for a vegetable bed, you only have so many options: Straw Silver or red mylar White plastic Other plants, I.E melons. Straw may not be available, last year it wasn't when I needed it. I tried some organic paper weed block, but it didn't really hold up wll. I also had melons in that bed and they were a huge hassle and hiding space for bugs. That leaves plastic and mylar. White plastic is cheaper, 15$ vs 25-50$ for enough to do what I need to, but there are academic studies showing that reflective mulch keeps whiteflies away. Also my soil is cheap compost or last years bagged dirt with cheap compost on top. And that compost is mostly manure, lol.
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Feb 15, 2013 08:56
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That does make a little more sense. Vegas is a much different climate than the PNW. I would still try to go for a living mulch like white clover instead of mylar. For your pest problem it sounds like you've got a lack of predators in your garden. Are you planting a wide variety of plants? What about flowers to attract beneficial insects? Wikipedia says nasturtium, zinnia and a few others are good for attracting predators of whitefly.
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Feb 15, 2013 17:03
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By the time the predators get there, the whiteflies have already given your plants the diseases they're carrying. I had more issue with aphids and the ants they attract, but we had no lack of lady beetles and their larvae. My sunflowers had a praying mantis in them, but those eat the wrong things. I planted marigolds and some little white flowers I can't recall the name of, but they didn't really take off until the fall growing season.
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Feb 15, 2013 19:18
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Nasturtiums are a really good trap crop for aphids.
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Feb 15, 2013 20:09
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but I just started my first garden today. I bought a 4'x4'x7" garden bed made of wood, so it sits above ground, though it is bottomless. I plan on planting a mix of herbs and vegetables, as well as a few flowers. The lady at Home Depot suggested potting mix, so that's what I went with. Will that be okay to plant seeds above ground in?
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Feb 18, 2013 00:39
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illcendiary posted:Sorry if this has been asked before, but I just started my first garden today. I bought a 4'x4'x7" garden bed made of wood, so it sits above ground, though it is bottomless. I think you need to be more concerned with spacing of plants and a watering system. What are you looking at planting? Some stuff like tomatos, peppers and herbs may be better started from seed in little seed starter pots. Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 03:23
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Fog Tripper posted:I think you need to be more concerned with spacing of plants and a watering system. What are you looking at planting? Some stuff like tomatos, peppers and herbs may be better started from seed in little seed starter pots. Some onion, beets, peppers, snap peas. For the herbs, cilantro, parsley, basil.
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Feb 18, 2013 05:35
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Today I finally got all the compost shifted from the street to my back yard, and I potted up some of my tomatoes from 16oz cups to 32oz food containers. I hope they keep doing well, and this will hold them until mid march or the night-time temperatures stabilize. I have other tomatoes ready to go that were started later, but the last thing I want is to miss the start of the season because it's short here. March 15th is the average last freeze, but some say it's better to wait until April. Somewhere between the last two weeks of may and the first two weeks of June, triple digit temps hit and stick around until September. I really want my plants to get big in April and may, because smaller plants go nowhere when it's that hot. Bigger ones can fruit at least and keep growing, at least till it gets really hot. I'm not so concerned about the peppers, yard-long beans, melons and cucumbers, they aren't so tricky. Most need to start later or from sown seed anyways, and can stand the heat better.
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Feb 18, 2013 06:17
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illcendiary posted:Sorry if this has been asked before, but I just started my first garden today. I bought a 4'x4'x7" garden bed made of wood, so it sits above ground, though it is bottomless. What you have is commonly called a raised bed. Potting soil is OK, but probably was a little expensive. Some brands are better than others. It wouldn't hurt to mix in some compost too. There isn't going to be a whole lot of nutrients in the potting soil so you may need some liquid fertilizer later in the season. Fog Tripper posted:I think you need to be more concerned with spacing of plants and a watering system. What are you looking at planting? Some stuff like tomatos, peppers and herbs may be better started from seed in little seed starter pots. It's only 16 square feet so a watering can should be enough. If you're really an absolute beginner you can easily buy starts from a nursery for a bed that small. At that size you'd probably want to read up on Square Foot Gardening too. illcendiary posted:Some onion, beets, peppers, snap peas. For the herbs, cilantro, parsley, basil. All of those plants can easily be direct sown except for the peppers. Unless you're in the ideal climate then you'll need to start them indoors well ahead of when the weather is warm enough to transplant them. Beets don't transplant well so they are better grown from seed directly in the bed. Personally, I would direct sow the onion, peas and herbs too, but you can still transplant them from starts.
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Feb 18, 2013 07:00
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I pre-sprout some of the larger seeds like beans if it's still cool.
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Feb 18, 2013 15:06
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Welp. The danger of "my" garden being at my parents' house is that my dad lives there. Went out to transplant some starts this morning and found he'd leveled the carrots, sage, and parsley while he had the weed whacker out to do the lawn. 
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Feb 18, 2013 17:42
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Molten Llama posted:Welp. The danger of "my" garden being at my parents' house is that my dad lives there.
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Feb 18, 2013 18:24
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I'm a newbie gardener, and I'll be setting up 4 or 5 4x4 raised beds this year for a square foot gardenish garden, but I don't really want to mess with that Mel's Mix crap for various reasons, the main one being availability and cost of the stuff here in Europe. What should I fill the beds with? I waa thinking putting an inch or so of straw covered with chicken poop on the bottom for a weed barrier and fertilizer from the poop, then just 4 or 5 inches of compost soil and some peat moss? Or should I just do regular gardening soil?
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Feb 18, 2013 21:08
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In BC, Canada last year we ordered a couple yards of premium top soil, which was delivered to our driveway. I guess it had 25% washed sand and 75% composted green waste and manures (edited). We built our raised bed garden with that, and everything did super well (leeks, snow peas, cherry tomatoes, cilantro, basil, leaf lettuce, and dill) . The only thing that never took off were the strawberries, but I'm guessing it was a seed or predator problem. Also, the carrots were tiny, but I am guessing they just didn't grow as much due to the top soil being six inches deep, and the ground underneath being pretty rocky. http://www.landscapecentre.com/bulk_material.cfm Jenny of Oldstones fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 22:27
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Armed Neutrality posted:I'm a newbie gardener, and I'll be setting up 4 or 5 4x4 raised beds this year for a square foot gardenish garden, but I don't really want to mess with that Mel's Mix crap for various reasons, the main one being availability and cost of the stuff here in Europe. What should I fill the beds with? I waa thinking putting an inch or so of straw covered with chicken poop on the bottom for a weed barrier and fertilizer from the poop, then just 4 or 5 inches of compost soil and some peat moss? Or should I just do regular gardening soil? 6 inches is probably the minimum, I'd go with a little more because it will settle (and in my climate it blows away), say 8". Old school raised bed instructions say 18", but that's a lot, if you're on top of any kind of dirt with an open or mostly open bottom like you suggest 6-8" will be OK. Here's what I did today, with some pictures. My wife and I potted up some more tomatoes, then mixed up some more starting mix. After that I started mixing up some perlite, peat moss, and some of the compost I have.  Earlier, I had drilled some holes in the bottom of some 18 gallon plastic bins I got on clearance after christmas. I potioned out my mix into them, and i didn't really have enough.  I topped the bins off with more compost, and mixed that up with a pitchfork as well.  Now my peppers will have a home when they get bigger in a few weeks, and I put a dent in poo poo mountain, which has stopped smelling quite so bad. Or maybe I just don't notice it anymore.  Here's some potted up tomatoes. The seedlings in the background are multicolored Habaneros (Lightning Mix) and plain old Jalapenos. The big ones in the front right are Homesteads, Beside them are Iraqi Abu Rawan tomatoes, and in the back are Juliet grape tomatoes.  Here's some more potted up tomatoes. They are Stupice, and are potato leaved while everything else is regular leaf. Well I can't really tell what those seedlings in the back are yet, leaf wise. In the back are some black Cherry and Hawaiian tropic seedlings.  Also, I was at the garden center today and I saw people buying Tomatoes already. I really think it's too early to plant those, the day length isn't long enough and Last freeze is march 15th. One piece of advice I read said wait until April, but I think that's too late. I'm going to wait, and start checking soil and air temps religiously next month until they are in the right range. There's no point in planting when plants can merely survive, plant them when they can thrive. Fullsize: http://imgur.com/iS8d92v http://imgur.com/z2nap2I http://imgur.com/k3rYhVH http://imgur.com/xYXl6Ad http://imgur.com/I21qJWp http://imgur.com/h2e14sW
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Feb 19, 2013 07:01
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AxeBreaker posted:
Also starting our stuff from seed this year. We'd usually pick up plants to drop into holes in the past. I'm trying to recall when we had ours in the ground last year and work back 8-10 weeks. Trying out brussel sprouts this year. Yummo. http://www.letsgrowveggies.com/ is telling me last frost is June 20th-ish. That is such a long way off. 
Fog Tripper fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 15:47
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Fog Tripper posted:Trying out brussel sprouts this year. Yummo. drat, where do you live? Here in Switzerland it's mid-may.
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Feb 19, 2013 16:35
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