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Unicorn is good as long as you have a high tolerance for Newtype Hippy Bullshit. (I love Newtype Hippy Bullshit.)
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Feb 2, 2013 21:27
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I haven't watched any of the UC OVAs yet, but I really enjoy Unicorn as a whole. It's the first Gundam series I've seen in a while that's had anything to say that isn't just a less coherent version of the usual Newtype theory stuff. Granted, it's still about the usual Newtype theory stuff, but it's actually expanding on it rather than just rehashing it. Edit: ^^^^ 
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Feb 2, 2013 21:28
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So it's worth my time (which was more what I was trying to say earlier  ).Spiritus Nox posted:I haven't watched any of the UC OVAs yet Watch 0080 and 08th MS Team. 0080 is honestly one of my favorite anime of all time, and one of like three to ever make me tear up (the others being Jin-Roh and Grave of the Fireflies), but it's also dark and doesn't have a lot of action. 08th MS Team isn't quite as good and really kind of suffered from the original director dying, but it's still totally worth watching and is one of the only Gundam series to really focus on non-Newtype soldiers (which it scores automatic points for in my opinion). e: Also if you hate Newtypes, neither series focuses on them at all and I'm pretty sure 0080 doesn't have any.
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Feb 2, 2013 21:48
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Unicorn has a lot of Newtype stuff happening, but seeing as how the titular MS is kinda made for that purpose in combat it's fitting.
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Feb 2, 2013 21:49
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0083 is absolutely gorgeous and has some great mech designs and fights. Though the mechs they have sort of mess with UC continuity and it has terrible characters, with one of the worst male and female leads in any gundam I've ever seen. It's a ova where you shut your brain off and look at the pretty things.
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Feb 2, 2013 22:39
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Monaghan posted:Although he was wrong about where it came from, gently caress the zogok and all those OYW MSV amphibious suits. I agree with this post, except the opposite of it?? Aquatic mobile suits own, especially the MSVs, and especially the Zogok. It's like Okawara's take on a Go Nagai robot.
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Feb 2, 2013 23:26
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So we're getting another Gundam Age "project". I really don't know why because frankly age was terrible. But hey, Asemu and Zeheart in gen 2 were kinda interesting and that's what its about, so if its just a little standalone war story in a manga I guess it'd be okay. There were some interesting parts of the setting and the characters that were neglected and underdeveloped because of the whole three generations setup which a good writer could do some really cool things with and examine the whole x-rounder/normal person superiority complex Asemu and Zeheart had going on or the realities of being a fanatical vegan soldier, or what society would even look like after a good 30 years of solid war. But age had terrible writing so 
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Feb 2, 2013 23:46
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Red Bones posted:So we're getting another Gundam Age "project". I really don't know why because frankly age was terrible. But hey, Asemu and Zeheart in gen 2 were kinda interesting and that's what its about, so if its just a little standalone war story in a manga I guess it'd be okay. There were some interesting parts of the setting and the characters that were neglected and underdeveloped because of the whole three generations setup which a good writer could do some really cool things with and examine the whole x-rounder/normal person superiority complex Asemu and Zeheart had going on or the realities of being a fanatical vegan soldier, or what society would even look like after a good 30 years of solid war. But age had terrible writing so it's been said before, but jesus christ Vagan pilot suits are hilariously terrible.
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Feb 3, 2013 00:30
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Red Bones posted:another Gundam Age "project" Why won't they just let us forget about AGE? 
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Feb 3, 2013 01:10
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ImpAtom posted:Unicorn is good as long as you have a high tolerance for Newtype Hippy Bullshit. Man, speaking of Newtype Hippy Bullshit I just reached the end of Zeta and god, even hearing over and over what a downer it is didn't prepare me to actually watch so many people die in the last three episodes. I think like, Fa and Haman are the two named characters introduced in Zeta who actually make it to the end alive and without brain damage.
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Feb 3, 2013 02:22
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Spelling Mitsake posted:Why won't they just let us forget about AGE? Heh. I lost interest after episode 6.  And yes, the finale to Zeta is a beating - though Kamille doing the Waverider Crash is one of the cooler Final Villain Kills I've ever seen. It's probably my favorite finale I've seen in Gundam, just ahead of 00 Season 1 for the same sort of reasons. They both just make you watch the main cast get ground down and worn out through one long, losing battle and get ball-crunchingly intense.
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Feb 3, 2013 02:45
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I thought AGE was a complete bomb? 
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Feb 3, 2013 02:53
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Senor Science posted:I thought AGE was a complete bomb? It was, but they're probably not willing to admit that. Asemu and Zeheart were the most popular characters from it so they're hoping to recoup some fan goodwill by focusing on them.
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Feb 3, 2013 03:04
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The AGE project is probably gonna be a manga spinoff or light novel or something else that will never be seen in English (Just like all the other AGE side projects they did).
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Feb 3, 2013 03:07
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Oh good they're going back to brutalize the one part of AGE that was actually kinda decent.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:27
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Pureauthor posted:Oh good they're going back to brutalize the one part of AGE that was actually kinda decent. AGE-3 already took care of destroying any redeeming features on its own quite handily.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:36
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i love hearing people get so mad over it, so can you summarize in spoiler tags what makes AGE so reprehensible? It sounds incredible just how much they screwed it up.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:47
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Captain Invictus posted:i love hearing people get so mad over it, so can you summarize in spoiler tags what makes AGE so reprehensible? It sounds incredible just how much they screwed it up. The answer is basically "everything." But here, as an example, here is Zeheart's character arc: He begins life as a spy for the bad guys. He attends the protagonist's school and befriends the protagonist before eventually being outed. He and the protagonist end up on the opposite side but his time spent with the protagonist enables him to form a friendship and sympathy that other people on his side don't have. Eventually he sacrifices himself and is badly wounded saving the protagonist from injury. We skip to the next generation and the protagonist has gone missing. Zeheart has become effectively a major leader in his organization and we seem him stress constantly that he doesn't believe in meaningless sacrifice and wholeheartedly believes in saving lives. He encounters the protagonist's kid and... basically doesn't give a poo poo. Okay. Sure, why not. Still, you can see this going places. One of his subordinates joins the military to possibly kill Zeheart but is eventually won over to his side after she discovers that he's a kinder person and better leader than the others. Still with me? Alright! So the protagonist's kid discovers that the real leader of the bad guy faction is a complete loving crazy person whose goal involves making all of humanity engage in a constantly bloody war of hatred and violence until 90% of humanity is dead and the only ones left are (in his crazy bullshit theoretical world) a better race of humans. Zeheart finds out about this and goes to confront him. In any other series this would have lead to Zeheart splitting off and maybe a sympathetic enemy faction or something. Zeheart and his people are literally the only villains we've seen who are not evil crazy sociopaths. I am not exaggerating here. So clearly they are there to be the sympathetic ones. In AGE it ends with Zeheart inexplicably going "You know what sounds great? The 'kill all humans' plan!" He then goes crazy and starts talking about how he is god's chosen person, followed by teamkilling a bunch of his own guys in a plan to kill the Gundams which doesn't work at all. Then he is killed in under 12 seconds by Asemu in the second to last episode. Every single one of his sidekicks is also killed in his stupid plan. Every single one. There are literally no named Vagan piloting characters left after that. The final villain is a random super soldier who literally had no lines before the final episode. Literally no lines. Random super soldier. Possessed by a magic space dragon, which also appeared out of nowhere. Every single loving thing in AGE is like that. It is like it is written by a crazy person who has no idea how to end plots or develop characters. Even when they have a solid-if-generic base they go off into loving crazyland to end it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Feb 3, 2013 07:55
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Captain Invictus posted:i love hearing people get so mad over it, so can you summarize in spoiler tags what makes AGE so reprehensible? It sounds incredible just how much they screwed it up. It's just completely incompetent on every level. It's hard to pinpoint something specific and it's really tempting just to quote the entire AGE thread but here's my favourite quote (by the writer of the series no less): quote:The female staff on the team didn't understand at all, but I personally feel it was extremely realistic.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:58
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ImpAtom posted:zeheart's terrible character development You forgot the bit where he is responsible for the slaughter of thousands of civilians when he attacks that town in the start of gen 3, and then we're still meant to have any sympathy for him afterwards.
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Feb 3, 2013 09:50
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Red Bones posted:You forgot the bit where he is responsible for the slaughter of thousands of civilians when he attacks that town in the start of gen 3, and then we're still meant to have any sympathy for him afterwards. You had sympathy for him up to that point? I lost all sympathy for him back in gen 2 when it turned out he was a super-special-awesome pilot that could not be beat. Then gen 3 came along and made it worse when he struggled against an inexperienced child. Because the kid's an X-rounder, and they can't be beat. X-rounders, Kio, Zeheart, and gen 3. The worst bits of AGE.
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Feb 3, 2013 09:57
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Kuroyama posted:You had sympathy for him up to that point? I lost all sympathy for him back in gen 2 when it turned out he was a super-special-awesome pilot that could not be beat. Then gen 3 came along and made it worse when he struggled against an inexperienced child. Because the kid's an X-rounder, and they can't be beat. I think I was meant to be sympathetic toward him with the way he was portrayed, but he was always an incredibly generic mush of "rival guy" qualities with nothing interesting going on. Maybe this new sidestory will make us give a poo poo about him!
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Feb 3, 2013 14:35
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Red Bones posted:Maybe this new sidestory will make us give a poo poo about him! Spoilers: we won't. Gen 3 ruined his character beyond the point of redemption.
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Feb 3, 2013 15:39
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You know how there's a very obvious, huge timeskip during Gen 2? You know, where most of the friendship between Asemu and Zeheart actually happened? What if this side story is that?
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Feb 4, 2013 00:32
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AzraelNewtype posted:You know how there's a very obvious, huge timeskip during Gen 2? You know, where most of the friendship between Asemu and Zeheart actually happened? What if this side story is that? That is almost what it inevitably would be. I'd bet dollars to donuts they had most of that at least basically scripted out and then had to dump it when the incredibly obvious studio mandated rewrite came down the tubes.
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Feb 4, 2013 00:34
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ImpAtom posted:That is almost what it inevitably would be. I'd bet dollars to donuts they had most of that at least basically scripted out and then had to dump it when the incredibly obvious studio mandated rewrite came down the tubes. Wasn't there an interview where the director said he wanted to spend more time focused on Asem and his friends at school?
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Feb 4, 2013 00:49
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Kuroyama posted:Wasn't there an interview where the director said he wanted to spend more time focused on Asem and his friends at school? There was. There's also a lot of other stuff which only makes sense with a rewrite: When Asemu was first announced he was a few years younger. After AGE-1 had a slow start they mysteriously aged him up a few years right to the point where they could get him out of school quickly. The first three or so episodes of AGE-2 don't really make a lot of sense in context. They're clearly setting up a status quo that never happens. (Asemu is the 'secret' pilot of the Gundam, Zeheart is a secret spy, they clash while being unaware of each other's identity.) Instead they drop almost all of that stuff pretty much as fast as they can and shove Asemu off into space ASAP. Asemu's AGE-2 only has one extra form while every other protagonist has two, including Kio's hilariously lovely AGE-3 Orbital. The closest he gets to a second Wear is a white paintjob. He does get an AGE-2 Dark Hound later but that's more akin to Flit's AGE-1 Flat. It's a really weird absence considering they passed up the chance to Sell More Toys. The AGE-2 section of the video game is really weird and feels a lot less coherent than the other sections. It's also the one that has the most straightforward deviations plot-wise IIRC. They've never actually come right out and said "yes, we rewrote the second season in a rush" but it's really obvious they did. Ironically this probably worked out the best for them because they didn't have time to gently caress it up as much.
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Feb 4, 2013 03:05
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ImpAtom posted:Random super soldier. Possessed by a magic space dragon, which also appeared out of nowhere. Wait a minute, hang on. What? Dragons?
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Feb 11, 2013 02:48
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Shazaminator posted:Wait a minute, hang on. What? Sorry. Magic Space Robot Dragon.
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Feb 11, 2013 04:04
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As if that somehow makes it okay.
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Feb 11, 2013 06:38
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Shazaminator posted:Wait a minute, hang on. What? It was technically an ancient AI-controlled super robot that just looked like a giant space dragon. ... yeah.
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Feb 11, 2013 15:03
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I've never seen a single UC Gundam series before Unicorn and I am absolutely eating this poo poo up. I think Newtype Hippy Bullshit sits quite well with me, in fact.
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Feb 12, 2013 14:16
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When I first watched Mobile Suit Gundam I was initially put off by the Newtype Hippie Bullshit, then I thought about it for a bit. Tomino's first few Gundam series are very much a love letter to science fiction of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Science fiction writers at that time, even those who wrote "hard" sci-fi grounded in real scientific theories and backed by pages of calculations like Asimov and Clarke (who wrote one short story backed up by thirty pages of orbital calculations), were totally into writing about the untapped, limitless metaphysical potential of the human consciousness and "the role of Mind in the cosmos". If you want to chart Newtype Hippie Bullshit against something like Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" it wouldn't even show up on the scale. The problem is that only a few Gundam series handle Newtypes well. Edit: Which reminds me, I've got to read "Childhood's End" again. Well Manicured Man fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 15:45
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T.G. Xarbala posted:I've never seen a single UC Gundam series before Unicorn and I am absolutely eating this poo poo up. I think Newtype Hippy Bullshit sits quite well with me, in fact. I really don't mind the psychic/transhumanism that exists in gundam, as long as it's important to the story. While newtypes may have been an excuse for why amuro was able to beat the crap out of zeon aces, at least Tomino and author writers took that and ran with it to make it an important part of the universal century. When it annoys me is when it serves no purpose but to give the main character a power up. thee seed mode and the x-rounders were pretty bad examples of this, as they didn't matter at all in the overall story.
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Feb 13, 2013 03:47
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Monaghan posted:When it annoys me is when it serves no purpose but to give the main character a power up. thee seed mode and the x-rounders were pretty bad examples of this, as they didn't matter at all in the overall story. Did we ever find out what seed mode was? I just remember now and then their eyes got intense and then you know poo poo just got real. Did they even acknowledge that it was a thing, or what?
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Feb 13, 2013 04:00
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Did we ever find out what seed mode was? I just remember now and then their eyes got intense and then you know poo poo just got real. Did they even acknowledge that it was a thing, or what? Nope. The reason why is because it is literally something Fukuda recycled from another series (Cyber Formula GPX). There it's called the Zero Zone and is pretty critical to the plot of Cyber Formula Zero. The villain of SEED Destiny is also literally a Cyber Formula character (very similar design and same voice actor and everything) recycled but done more poorly. They even reuse the drat shots from Cyber Formula's opening sequence in the Destiny OP. Fukuda references Cyber Formula constantly in SEED. Locations are taken directly from Cyber Formula. Athrun's car and Shinn's motorcycle both are Cyber Formula references. Shots are taken directly or very similar to those seen in Cyber Formula. (Just as an example)  Even Yzak's design is a direct reference to Henri Claytor from Cyber Formula.  The Skygrasper and Moebius Zero are not Cyber Formula references but only because they're direct references to GEAR Fighter Dendoh instead. The Skygrasper is the Cell Fighter from that anime and the Moebius Zero is the prototype design for the Cell Fighter. (The gunpods were battery holders instead of remote weapons.) Basically SEED was Fukuda recycling a lot of poo poo from his other shows. Except in almost every case he is recycling something he did significantly better in those shows This makes the completely loving inept usage of it in SEED all the more inexplicable because he demonstrated he can do it well already. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Feb 13, 2013 |
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Feb 13, 2013 04:03
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There was some bullshit about SEED mode being a visual representation of that person surpassing their limits but then Lacus did it sitting on her rear end in the bridge of her pink pacifist warship while a guy who was crippled by her perfect boyfriend and had his wife murdered by him did all the work.
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Feb 13, 2013 08:21
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Whizbang posted:There was some bullshit about SEED mode being a visual representation of that person surpassing their limits but then Lacus did it sitting on her rear end in the bridge of her pink pacifist warship while a guy who was crippled by her perfect boyfriend and had his wife murdered by him did all the work. No but man she was worrying really hard.
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Feb 13, 2013 10:13
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Monaghan posted:I really don't mind the psychic/transhumanism that exists in gundam, as long as it's important to the story. While newtypes may have been an excuse for why amuro was able to beat the crap out of zeon aces, at least Tomino and author writers took that and ran with it to make it an important part of the universal century. I like to think that the concept of Newtypes was there from the start because it's the most Tomino thing because it's so bleak (humanity evolves psychic powers to cope with the loneliness of space by being able to contact one another from a great distance and inevitably uses them to kill one another and newtypes actually end up more isolated than oldtypes because of this).
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Feb 13, 2013 12:12
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Whizbang posted:There was some bullshit about SEED mode being a visual representation of that person surpassing their limits but then Lacus did it sitting on her rear end in the bridge of her pink pacifist warship while a guy who was crippled by her perfect boyfriend and had his wife murdered by him did all the work. If I got a roboarm that was also a loving shotgun out of the deal like he did, then I'd be fine with it. Plus he tought Kira and Cagalli how to properly eat shawarma, and that's all that matters 
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Feb 13, 2013 12:19
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