|
I remember the Bungie guys giving a talk at Animex here in Middlesbrough about metrics, balance factors and minute, iterative tweaking of the Halo multiplayer which is crucial to the long term enjoyment of an FPS. I wish I'd have gone to it, sounded genuinely interesting.
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 23:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:30 |
|
|
....and I learned some important terminology today, thanks!
D1Sergo fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 23:58
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:California has pretty high taxes in comparison yet there's companies popping up left and right due to the amount of population and talent available. I think if anything's weird, it's how few major developers are based out of anywhere near NYC.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 02:31
|
|
|
Two words, my friend: Living. Expenses.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 02:38
|
|
|
GetWellGamers posted:Two words, my friend: Living. Expenses. Yup. As a Baltimore artist, my rent is hilariously negligible (I'm getting a crazy deal on my rent where I'm paying ~400/mo+utilities and living with one other person in a 2BR, 3.5BA townhouse in the city)- and probably the only reason I'm not freaking out too badly about being potentially unemployed soon. I suspect a lot of Baltimore development stemmed from Micropose in the way back, and it's been a small hub since. And we've got some art/dev/design talent popping up from schools like MICA, UB, UMBC, and UMCP. Our public education system is actually top notch (depending on the county). 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 03:02
|
|
|
Frown Town posted:Yup. As a Baltimore artist, my rent is hilariously negligible (I'm getting a crazy deal on my rent where I'm paying ~400/mo+utilities and living with one other person in a 2BR, 3.5BA townhouse in the city)- and probably the only reason I'm not freaking out too badly about being potentially unemployed soon. I suspect a lot of Baltimore development stemmed from Micropose in the way back, and it's been a small hub since. Well you're talking to a guy who grew up in Fairfax county in VA so i'm more knowledgeable about MD public schools in the counties surrounding DC which are somewhat...sub par Still with the kind of money that flows in and out of the DC area I'm surprised that Mythic is the really the only studio I can name off the top of my head in Northern VA. Though I feel like Firaxis used to be in Fairfax... True cost of living is pretty pricey, but it's not much worse than a lot of other places I've seen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 03:30
|
|
|
GetWellGamers posted:Two words, my friend: Living. Expenses. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Feb 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 03:51
|
|
|
I've got a life question and not sure who else to talk to! I got into Nintendo some years ago doing your basic product testing. Had a great time, etc, but it ended rather abruptly and then a bunch of other poo poo happened and now I'm a custodian for a nearby school district. Heck of a change in profession and one I'm really hating lately. Here's the deal; Volt will hire me on call to do for others what I did at Nintendo. It's less than what I do here by a few bucks and it sounds pretty likely that I'll be working less. Until I've shown enough good work, then they'll add me to some first call list that get all the action. I'm prepared to make less money in order to up my happiness factor some. The aspect I wanted to bring up was this; I don't have any higher education and have no plans to get any. I'm not clever enough to be an artist or smart enough to write code - the thought of formal training puts me in a panic. This isn't a career, and from all accounts it isn't one that will magically turn into one all on it's own. Still, I like dealing with people and generally don't rub anyone the wrong way. Yet I don't see these skills being well translated for the industry in a career sort of way. I suppose what I'm asking is, can someone untrained move around? Must everything be back by a degree in one thing or another, or can a hard working, dedicated employee get noticed and go "somewhere"? I'm not looking for greatness and I could be happy testing games forever, but would I have nothing to look forward to? Maybe I haven't realised how stagnant the position can be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 05:28
|
|
|
What are you looking to do? You just said you aren't willing to learn any skills that would put you in a development position, so you can probably max out at lead tester at best. Are you opposed to higher education? Because maybe somewhere there could possibly be a place that will help pay for schooling and then some day you could move into a production (management) role, but given the kind of idiots in a production role they're the kind of folks that benefit from having a degree to their name. QA is swamped with college grads with Barista degrees, so I would imagine you would find stiff competition for any salaried tester positions at all, much less lead, and I would be surprised if you made it to an associate producer level without a community college BA at least. Yhe people without degrees who get jobs all have demonstrable skills (coding, design, art, sound). If you want to be a developer of some sort ( you didn't rule out design), QA can actually be something of a trap as you'll burn out on overtime playing games and not want to come home and make them. Conversely, your poo poo janitor job lets you daydream about cool things and then coming home and making games is a relaxing change of pace - I was a self taught artist who would come home from business classes or my call center job and model stuff for fun. A lot of the QA guys I worked with at my last job would complain that they didn't want to spend their free time making art/designing after crunching 60 hour weeks. I don't want to tell anyone to not chase their dreams but you don't seem to have a dream figured out yet. Also I would really question how much happiness a temp QA gig is going to give you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
Lothire posted:I'm prepared to make less money in order to up my happiness factor some. The aspect I wanted to bring up was this; I don't have any higher education and have no plans to get any. I'm not clever enough to be an artist or smart enough to write code - the thought of formal training puts me in a panic. This isn't a career, and from all accounts it isn't one that will magically turn into one all on it's own. Still, I like dealing with people and generally don't rub anyone the wrong way. Yet I don't see these skills being well translated for the industry in a career sort of way. As it happens, the one (and I repeat, one) career path that most often leads out of QA is production. So it isn't a horrible choice for you, if you take that route. If you do this, you're going to need to become a kick-rear end tester, and you're going to need to network yourself into being an in-house tester at a studio that promotes their QA'ers into production. That describes a relatively small subset of the industry's QA on a whole, so be warned. I would suggest looking at larger mobile studios, these days. If you can get into that position, though, and prove you're fun to work with and not a goober, odds are good you can segue into a Jr Producer / SCRUM Master / etc role. From there, you keep working on your soft/people skills, and aim for a higher-level producer role. A really, really good skill to have for this is the ability to project confidence. If you can do that, you can work toward being "the business guy" who knows everyone and can charm money out of a stump. It also isn't a skill you'd ever get from a degree program, so it'd just be down to how well you could push yourself. Should you end up as this kind of person, shazam, you're suddenly the most important founding member of a startup studio (someone who can bring in money/work + run business-side + act as production manager and save everyone time). If it's beyond you, then you probably top your career out as a Sr. Producer somewhere - which is perfectly fine. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Feb 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 06:03
|
|
|
Does anyone know a producer without a BA? That seems like a major issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 07:51
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:Does anyone know a producer without a BA? That seems like a major issue. Gameloft has plenty of producers without a BA. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 08:02
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:Does anyone know a producer without a BA? That seems like a major issue. I don't know if not holding a degree will be an issue as much as the fact that nearly everyone in QA wants to move into production roles. It is not an easy jump to make. I'd go as far as to say it is basically impossible to do as a contract tester.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 10:35
|
|
|
Never understood the QA->Producer jump. The skill sets for good ones of each don't seem to overlap at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 10:40
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:What are you looking to do? You just said you aren't willing to learn any skills that would put you in a development position, so you can probably max out at lead tester at best. Are you opposed to higher education? Because maybe somewhere there could possibly be a place that will help pay for schooling and then some day you could move into a production (management) role, but given the kind of idiots in a production role they're the kind of folks that benefit from having a degree to their name. "Not having figured out a dream" is really what this boils down to. This isn't much unlike a verbose version of "I wanna work for video games." But I really appreciate what you're saying and that goes for everyone looking to chime in. I have an unbelievable attraction to video games, but when I break them down I find that I can't really settle on one aspect that really stands out for me. On top of that, I've never been scholastically successful. A lot of what a game is about requires that kind of higher learning and I just don't think I can reach that kind of goal. It isn't that I'm against it, I simply don't feel like it's a realistic thing for me to achieve. This leaves me kind of out of the loop when it comes to being a part of the industry, and I'm wondering just what is left when those things are ruled out. I like the idea of going through QA because it's a job that I do well. My time at Nintendo cemented this as I received a lot of recognition for finding unique problems. Those issues people bring up - burning out, getting bored, etc - I admit to having but I always came home and did one thing; played more god drat video games. I had a sense of pride in finding unique bugs, or the occasions when I had the most reported/corrected problems. Is it my dream job? If it paid more, sure! I mingled with so many different types of people, all of which I genuinely enjoyed being around. But I realize making minimum wage all my life is not that viable a thing. Then I started looking up the totem pole to team leads, managers, a bunch of other positions I can't recall.. If I could get somewhere up there, maybe it'd be worth it? I was close to getting into lock check but things dried up before I could get on board. Shalinor posted:You're describing the background of a lot of project managers and producers. They're not generally creatives, they're managers, but they're still extremely important and end up having a lot of critical influence on how a game comes together. That sounds incredible, and may just be the thing I can fill. I don't expect anything to happen for a very long time, either way. The nice thing about QA, for me, is that it's something I can feel fulfilled doing. At the very least, I'm a spec on the bottom of the game industry's boot. This is better to me than being under the boot of anything else. Maybe more time spent there will help me figure out where to go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 10:49
|
|
|
FreakyZoid posted:Never understood the QA->Producer jump. The skill sets for good ones of each don't seem to overlap at all. Base QA not so much but QA lead, yeah there's a bit of overlap there. Team leadership, critical path analysis, team management. There's a lot that lines up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 11:37
|
|
|
Sion posted:Base QA not so much but QA lead, yeah there's a bit of overlap there. Team leadership, critical path analysis, team management. There's a lot that lines up. Don't forget reloading Kotaku and ordering pizza.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 12:31
|
|
|
BizarroAzrael posted:Don't forget reloading Kotaku and ordering pizza. You forgot not defending your team to upper management because you don't want to get fired.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 12:34
|
|
|
Am I the only person that's had positive experiences with both QA leads and production?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 15:49
|
|
|
Sion posted:Am I the only person that's had positive experiences with both QA leads and production? Until you work with a good producer, they make no sense, but once you work with a good one, it's magical. Same can be said for QA.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 15:51
|
|
|
Sion posted:Am I the only person that's had positive experiences with both QA leads and production? You just weren't paying attention enough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 15:51
|
|
|
Sion posted:Am I the only person that's had positive experiences with both QA leads and production? Usually one or the other, but you live a charmed life if you've had both at the same time!
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 16:19
|
|
|
Monster w21 Faces posted:You just weren't paying attention enough. No, I was, but I've had a couple of other jobs since then. edit - no that's a stupid question Sion fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Feb 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 17:17
|
|
|
FreakyZoid posted:Never understood the QA->Producer jump. The skill sets for good ones of each don't seem to overlap at all. I agree tht it probably happens more often than it should, but it is hard to find people who both understand game development and want to be producers rather than actually develop. I've had good individual experiences with both QA and Production, but I've had plenty of bad ones as well. I hope tht my experience with good and bad producers combines with my background as an artist to be a good producer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
It's the whole 'Those who can't do, teach' thing we all found so hilarious as kids.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 17:59
|
|
|
FreakyZoid posted:Never understood the QA->Producer jump. The skill sets for good ones of each don't seem to overlap at all. Neither one requires any actual skills so...  I'm just kidding I actually spend 50% of my time as a producer lately and I do think good ones are useful on a large enough team.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 18:03
|
|
|
devilmouse posted:Until you work with a good producer, they make no sense, but once you work with a good one, it's magical. Same can be said for QA. Only the bad ones usually go way past "making no sense" and charge straight into "want to murder them with the spork that came with the crunch food".
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 18:24
|
|
|
Lothire posted:I've got a life question and not sure who else to talk to! Don't take the Volt position if you need steady, stable income. I've known a few people who have worked at Volt, generally during the summer. It's something a lot of Digipen students do for extra cash. The testing they do is often the most mind numbing, boring stuff like verifying that you can launch and run every Xbox 360 game release on each dashboard update. It's important stuff that needs to be tested, but it's a no/low skill QA position, and you won't be building anything towards a career. It's also really boring, some of the most boring QA work I've heard of anyone doing. Volt is only QA, so there is really no chance for vertical advancement. The way Volt works is, people show up and line up at the beginning of the day, usually more people than they need for the day. They pick who they want to work for the day, and everyone else goes home, hoping they can work the next day. Volt is great for Digipen or other college students who want to earn some extra cash in the summer, but it's not a career path at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
I can confirm that from second hand experience. A bunch of my friends worked at Volt and they all hated it. It is more for those who need the extra cash.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
That's also an issue. I've heard nothing but unflattering things about 'em, and when they called me it felt like they were trying really hard to convince me that I'd be doing what I did for Nintendo, when really it's more like what you both mention. So long as I have a plan to pursue, I don't have to swap jobs right away. I make a decent check every month and can save up, which is my current goal right now. Eventually I want to get into QA again and the Volt aspect felt like a way to do it, but it doesn't sound like the thing I was hoping for. In any case, I'm still browsing craigslist and general google searching in hopes of finding something out there. WA seems to have a fair bit of studios spread about the place. Aerotek is the group that hooked me into Nintendo, so I'm also keeping an eye out for such companies able to do that again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2013 01:19
|
|
|
Lothire posted:That's also an issue. I've heard nothing but unflattering things about 'em, and when they called me it felt like they were trying really hard to convince me that I'd be doing what I did for Nintendo, when really it's more like what you both mention. If you actually want to get into QA, the most useful place to do it is for a developer directly, though you'll probably benefit from some QA experience when applying for those jobs since there are far fewer of them available. The other option is publisher QA, which can gain you QA experience but won't be useful for much beyond getting other QA jobs. I don't think working for a contract company outsourcer like Volt would be very useful for anything beyond doing that specific job, but it also depends which company Volt is hiring you to work for.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2013 03:05
|
|
|
Monster w21 Faces posted:It's the whole 'Those who can't do, teach' thing we all found so hilarious as kids. This is slightly off topic and I apologize but I have to object to the "those who can't do, teach" notion. I used to think this when I was younger but since I've gone back to school I've met a lot of people who genuinely love to teach, and none of those people are unable to "do." I've discovered I have a love of teaching of my own (thus the Math for Game Developers videos) and I'm a doer myself. Ever since I've reformed my opinion on this phrase I mainly hear it from people who have some kind of beef against teachers eg they-are-liberal-and-I'm-a-neocon or i-wasted-my-education-and-i-blame-the-instructors. I'll try to bring the topic back around to something relevant by pointing out that Richard LeMarchand, former designer for Naughty Dog, accomplished a lot in his career and now holds a professorship at USC. Warren Spector also spent a lot of time teaching.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2013 03:50
|
|
|
Lothire posted:That's also an issue. I've heard nothing but unflattering things about 'em, and when they called me it felt like they were trying really hard to convince me that I'd be doing what I did for Nintendo, when really it's more like what you both mention. Since it sounds like you're in the neighborhood, Bungie has some in-house QA positions open.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2013 22:56
|
|
|
I'm currently attending a 4-year college as a Computer Science major with an Art minor (mostly 3D modeling) and wanted to get a little advice on my future while I'm still about a year and a half off of graduation. For the past year or so I've been studying with the intent of either doing web design or video game development and have recently made my mind to lean heavily into working in the game industry and begun working on a small game project with 3DS Max and Unity as a portfolio piece. Would employers prefer a large number of very small games and prototypes over a few polished games and pieces? I recently watched a GDC presentation about getting into the industry and one question from the audience was about having experience in multiple fields of development, in this instance they mentioned programming and design, and the panel said they very much enjoy hiring people who have experience in multiple aspects of development. As it is right now by the time I graduate I should have experience in programming, game design, and 3D modeling. I suppose my question is rather simple: Should I consider focusing heavily in one of these aspects or do employers really appreciate having experience in a number of different fields within development? On the latest Idle Thumbs podcast a rather gloomy opinion about the availability of game development jobs was mentioned, stating that it is pretty hard to find a job right now. Is this opinion correct?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 00:00
|
|
|
It depends on the company, but in general, medium to big companies usually want you to be really good at one thing and anything else is just a bonus. Then a few companies, particularly small indies and casuals, will prefer jacks of all trades. Even then, what kind of mesh of abilities they value could change from place to place. One place might prefer a 2D artist who can code and design, while another might prefer a 2D artist who can do 3D and animate. I'd say your best bet is to focus on one thing. Anything else is gravy. Of course, that doesn't mean that you have to ignore the other stuff, that stuff can only make you better. As for the jobs, I can't tell because I am currently blissfully employed, but I think that if you are good and perseverant (and don't mind possible relocation) you will find a spot somewhere. Chernabog fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Feb 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 00:24
|
|
That Gobbo posted:I suppose my question is rather simple: Should I consider focusing heavily in one of these aspects or do employers really appreciate having experience in a number of different fields within development? It's really not that hard to find a job. The hardest part is building a great portfolio of really nice work. Also about the focusing thing. It entirely depends on what kind of studio you want to work at. If you want to do indie development then you'll probably want to specialize in at least one or two fields. Most big name developers want very specialized people though. Also, if you want to do game development, prepare to move to wherever the jobs are in most cases. Unless of course you do your own thing and can support yourself that way.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 00:27
|
|
|
Paniolo posted:Since it sounds like you're in the neighborhood, Bungie has some in-house QA positions open. Mucho appreciation. My Nintendo friends sometimes mention things like this and it feels like a really helpful thing, getting my resume out there and such.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 01:55
|
|
|
That Gobbo posted:I'm currently attending a 4-year college as a Computer Science major with an Art minor (mostly 3D modeling) and wanted to get a little advice on my future while I'm still about a year and a half off of graduation. For the past year or so I've been studying with the intent of either doing web design or video game development and have recently made my mind to lean heavily into working in the game industry and begun working on a small game project with 3DS Max and Unity as a portfolio piece. Would employers prefer a large number of very small games and prototypes over a few polished games and pieces? Like Chernabog said smaller companies generally prefer multi-disciplined devs, so they don't have to hire a guy for animation, one to do UI, another to due concept art and another to do 3D. A lot of the time in a small company there isn't enough work in one discipline to keep someone busy forever, if they can get all those disciplines from one guy and be able to switch them onto different tasks without that person throwing up their hands and going "I'm not an animator" or "I don't DO UI" in a very Uni Student kind of way, that all works in the company's favour. For these jobs, startups, Mobile studios, handheld and net games you want to show your range and adaptability, show them you will never turn around and say "No" to work because you don't like the idea of doing X, or Y, like some stubborn artists I know. That's a death sentence at a small studio. At these places you're gonna be doing something totally different each day and it gets pretty wild. 2D, 3D, Concept Art, UI, Animation, all sorts. From what I can gather second hand, in bigger dev teams and on AAA, the list of jobs to do in a particular discipline (e.g. character animation) will be significantly longer due to the naturally larger size of the project, that joblist is going to extend on for months. So not only is the value of multidiscipline dudes not as great, as an employer you want the absolute best at that given job and you've a massive talent pool of specialists to pick from because everybody wants to go work at Blizzard or Valve. For these jobs, larger companies, Triple A, Quality always beats Quantity. A few meshes and texture sets (or animations, or levels, etc) perfectly made will easily demonstrate ability to a senior's eye. I don't want to suggest you don't go for bigger hotshot studios, but startups and mobile studios were my way into the industry and I suspect that's going to be the case for a greatly increasing number of people as the years go on and as bigger studios focus less on training new talent and instead on poaching and headhunting from other companies. GeeCee fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Feb 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 03:18
|
|
|
Funny enough, Valve wants it both ways: extremely specialized people who are adept in a variety of other fields.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 03:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 10:30 |
|
|
Aliginge has some really good observations. I think a couple polished games/pieces are going to show better universally to mobile/social and AAA/console studio. I only have a few minutes to spare to check out someone's portfolio/projects, so I'd rather see one quality project/piece that really hooks me. And in terms of specializing versus generalizing, it definitely depends on what you want out of your early career. Do you like having your hands in a bunch of areas of development (and maybe you have a bit of ADD)? Then you'll be most valuable to a smaller studio, probably working on mobile/social/casual games with a shorter development cycle. Do you want to work on huge, epic projects, and do you have a good attention span and ability to focus on a problem for a long period of time? Then AAA could be your end goal. Imo, console development's a bit harder to get into because the kind of expertise an employer wants can be pretty difficult to acquire/demonstrate while in school. Start looking for internships where ever you can, as getting hands-on industry experience is one of the most valuable things you can do to get a leg up on your graduating class. For me, mobile development has felt like a better fit for me as an artist since I prefer to have a greater stake in a project and like the faster development cycle; and I find the idea of spending four or five years of my life pouring my soul into a project only to see it canned or fail pretty painful.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2013 03:41
|
|