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iForge posted:Metal fume fever is nothing to play with. It is nasty and will permanently damage you if it doesn't outright kill you. It is not something to take a risk on. Anyone who tells you different is a fool. For tube forges, I always recommend a straight pipe over an elbow- the reason being that cleaning forge debris out of an angled tuyere is a goddamn pain in the rear end, sometimes impossible depending on the design, whereas a straight-shot tuyere that emerges out the other side and has holes drilled at the appropriate point in the side only needs to have the end-cap taken off and the blower opened up full. e: RE- metal fume fever: doesn't it largely depend on the metal doin' the fuming, though? Like cadmium metal fume fever is gently caress No That Will gently caress You Up, but garden-variety zinc is a lot more innocuous. That's not to minimize the risk or the precautions that should be taken, butttt.
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Feb 16, 2013 18:19
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Ambrose Burnside posted:e: RE- metal fume fever: doesn't it largely depend on the metal doin' the fuming, though? Like cadmium metal fume fever is gently caress No That Will gently caress You Up, but garden-variety zinc is a lot more innocuous. That's not to minimize the risk or the precautions that should be taken, butttt. Zinc fumes will kill you in sufficient quantity. You don't want to be around it when it's offgassing.
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Feb 16, 2013 18:40
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A good rule of thumb, I have found, is "you shouldn't breathe anything that isn't air." Are there even (commonly available) respirator cartridges that work for metallic fumes? Or do you have to go with a full-on enclosed oxygen hood if you want to work around a crucible of molten cadmium?
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Feb 16, 2013 19:05
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Sagebrush posted:A good rule of thumb, I have found, is "you shouldn't breathe anything that isn't air." Are there even (commonly available) respirator cartridges that work for metallic fumes? Or do you have to go with a full-on enclosed oxygen hood if you want to work around a crucible of molten cadmium? I BELIEVE- nobody take my word at this, but just-molten cadmium isn't a threat, it's only if you boil/vaporize it. I only say this because low-melt alloys like Field's metal often include non-negligible amounts of cadmium in the alloy, to help with flexibility for pipe-bending and such, iirc. And the only precautions that come with those are "don't heat it to boiling and don't touch it with bare skin when it's molten". Although you'd be very stupid to try melting pure cadmium at all without serious ventilation, I'd think. e: I'll attach this nice cool thing from Wikipedia b/c I really don't want to be the guy who sounds like he's minimizing the risks of cadmium poisoning. quote:Acute exposure to cadmium fumes may cause flu like symptoms including chills, fever, and muscle ache sometimes referred to as "the cadmium blues." Symptoms may resolve after a week if there is no respiratory damage. More severe exposures can cause tracheo-bronchitis, pneumonitis, and pulmonary edema. Symptoms of inflammation may start hours after the exposure and include cough, dryness and irritation of the nose and throat, headache, dizziness, weakness, fever, chills, and chest pain. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 20:03
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Any time something is a liquid it is offgassing at some rate that depends on the temperature, air pressure and general molecular structure of the compound. I don't know what the vapor pressure is for cadmium around its melting point, but if you've got it in a molten state there will be cadmium molecules drifting around. Who knows how bad that actually is, but better safe than sorry. Heavy metal poisoning is not a joke.
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Feb 17, 2013 08:40
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Ok, this is absurd. He is using a galvanized metal container to hold FIRE while inside of a shed. He can seriously hurt his health and Ambrose is downplaying it with statements like  "well its not as bad as cadmium!!!" Zinc galvanized metal starts releasing vapors around 545 degrees Fahrenheit. Whether it just gets him a little sick or kills him, it shouldn't be loving happening and those that know better need to step up and say something to prevent a potentially bad situation. We do this as a hobby and it should be a safe and enjoyable activity free of idiots trying to downplay health risks. Seriously, gently caress you Ambrose Burnside. Zinc fumes are NOT innocuous and you are a fool for posting such.
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Feb 17, 2013 21:49
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iForge posted:Ok, this is absurd. He is using a galvanized metal container to hold FIRE while inside of a shed. He can seriously hurt his health and Ambrose is downplaying it with statements like Dude, I listed a bunch of ways to de-galvanize the thing with my first post on the subject. At absolutely no point did I tell him to go ahead and use it as is, or light it in a garage, or even put himself at risk of inhaling zinc fumes, or any of that. e: Although using the word 'innocuous' wasn't the best choice, no. Especially because I've gotten it a couple times and it's terrible even before you consider the risk of permanent or lasting damage. e^2: Sorry, in retrospect that -does- read like minimizing the risk of zinc fume fever, which wasn't my intent. I was just being a pedant about the statement "metal fume fever can be lethal"- it's like "heart conditions can be lethal". Both are technically true, but misleading, because both are catch-all terms for conditions that are only loosely connected in the causative agents and the actual health risk presented. Although, of course, it -is- inappropriate to be doing where health precautions are concerned. So, yeah, sorry. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 17, 2013 |
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Feb 17, 2013 22:27
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Although, of course, it -is- inappropriate to be doing where health precautions are concerned. So, yeah, sorry. Yeah, it is. Dropping this now.
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Feb 17, 2013 23:29
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Sagebrush posted:A good rule of thumb, I have found, is "you shouldn't breathe anything that isn't air." Are there even (commonly available) respirator cartridges that work for metallic fumes? Or do you have to go with a full-on enclosed oxygen hood if you want to work around a crucible of molten cadmium? P100 filters for a half mask. They're wonderful for so many different metals  Since I'm on the subject I'll plug the 3M 2297 P100 filters again. They are so so so much easier to breathe through than the typical 2097s.
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Feb 19, 2013 12:11
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SmokeyXIII posted:P100 filters for a half mask. They're wonderful for so many different metals Doesn't the P stand for particulate? It doesn't seem like that would be the appropriate kind of filter for metal fumes. It certainly isn't the right kind for organic chemical fumes, you need charcoal filters for that.
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Feb 19, 2013 17:33
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I'm trying to solder a silver wire into a loop for a pendant bail and it's failed... 5 times now. All the other soldered joints went off without a hitch- 6 or 7, I think- but the verrrry last one is absolutely not cooperating, no matter how many times I clean the joint up and reshape it for a better hold. I'm using Tix soft solder because I don't want to heat the pendant up enough to lose the work-hardness I worked into it, which would be the case with hard silver solder or whatever I'd typically use for this. Any suggestions? At this point I'm inclined to just go buy some subtly-coloured epoxy and go with that, as much as it shames me.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:20
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What is it doing when you try to solder it? I assume you've cleaned the joint well and used flux? I don't have any experience with Tix, but I have soldered many a silver jump ring.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:32
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armorer posted:What is it doing when you try to solder it? I assume you've cleaned the joint well and used flux? I don't have any experience with Tix, but I have soldered many a silver jump ring. Tix is just a weird (and very expensive, but I had it on hand) bridge between soft and hard solder- melts at soldering-iron temperatures while supposedly having much more holding strength than yer typical tin-based soft solder. And yeah, I'm doing everything properly, I've done a bit of soldering so I'm not completely lost. You know, flux joint, place solder snippet on far end of joint, place iron at near end so the heat draws it through the joint properly once it melts. It's just refusing to stay put once I stress the metal any, you know, bending the bail back into position or what-have-you, or reshape it to be a little rounder, or whatever. There wasn't much surface area the first couple times and it's easy to forget soft solder needs a Mechanical Connection in the way brazing/welding doesn't, so I rejiggered it to give it a nice big flat surface to hold fast to, and it still came undone while I was polishing it. I might just settle for letting solder spill -over- the sides/top of the bail to, you know, really mechanically hold on, instead of relying on the 'glue force' between two parallel pieces of metal. Tix is silver, so it shouldn't be too obvious, especially if I file/sand it down to be a little more subtle.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:07
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Well I am afraid I'm not going to be of much use to you then, sorry. It sounds like this has more to do with Tix than it does with general silver soldering.
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Feb 19, 2013 19:27
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I've moved, and I finally have my own detached garage. I've even got my wife parking her car outside so I can have the space for metal working. First thing first though, I need to wire the garage for 220v. The last garage I had, I just put 220 in the wall. and the fuse box was conveniently in the garage near the outlet. Now I need an outlet for my inverter and my air compressor. Currently, the fuse box is inside the house. It is one of those old ones from the 1950's, and it doesn't look like there is any open slots to add some fuses for new outlets in the garage. I'm thinking that I will put a new fuse box out in the garage. Any idea on the cost of this setup? What are some of your guys' 220v setups?
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Feb 19, 2013 19:49
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armorer posted:Well I am afraid I'm not going to be of much use to you then, sorry. It sounds like this has more to do with Tix than it does with general silver soldering. Yeah. I'd MUCH rather just silver solder it like a normal human being, but I won't risk annealing it because the construction is fairly rickety and relies extensively on work-hardening to be durable.
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Feb 20, 2013 00:11
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duck hunt posted:I've moved, and I finally have my own detached garage. I've even got my wife parking her car outside so I can have the space for metal working. First thing first though, I need to wire the garage for 220v. The last garage I had, I just put 220 in the wall. and the fuse box was conveniently in the garage near the outlet. Now I need an outlet for my inverter and my air compressor. Currently, the fuse box is inside the house. It is one of those old ones from the 1950's, and it doesn't look like there is any open slots to add some fuses for new outlets in the garage. I ran a sub box off of my main breaker box out to the garage. My household max is only 100A, but I basically never draw much from household, so running a 60A sub box was simple enough. I used an indoor rated line that is rated for 300v at 80 amps (1 phase), and used conduit housing for the brief stint where it leaves my house and goes to the garage. I got a few tut-tuts from my electrician relatives, but was told it would probably still pass an inspection if I finished cleaning up where it enters the garage. So basically- 300v 80 amp line goes from an 60amp breaker off the in house 100A service, goes to garage where it becomes the mains for the box in the garage. I was looking at ~$4000 to have another line run from the city, my setup cost ~$300. Linux Assassin fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 02:21
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kafkasgoldfish posted:Doesn't the P stand for particulate? It doesn't seem like that would be the appropriate kind of filter for metal fumes. It certainly isn't the right kind for organic chemical fumes, you need charcoal filters for that. Nope, P is for oil proof, R is for oil resistant(8 hour lifespan when exposed to oil), and N is for no oil. All are for particulate. Whoever came up with that system is an rear end in a top hat. A fume is solid particulate suspended in air. You wouldn't smell methane fumes, for example, because it would be -182C and your nose would be frozen solid. Likewise you're very unlikely to smell metal vapors because noses don't work well when on fire. 
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Feb 20, 2013 12:25
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iForge posted:Seriously, gently caress you Ambrose Burnside. Not to belittle the topic at hand, but this is a super funny sentence and I'm not sure why. Just reading my morning threads and bam: literal LOL from out of nowhere!
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Feb 20, 2013 18:14
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oxbrain posted:Nope, P is for oil proof, R is for oil resistant(8 hour lifespan when exposed to oil), and N is for no oil. All are for particulate. Whoever came up with that system is an rear end in a top hat. How large does a particle have to be in order to get stuck in the filter, though? Monatomic helium is technically a "particle", for instance, but it's also a gas and passes through any filter that also passes air. So unless your filter is working on an atomic radius scale, any monatomic metal particles produced by offgassing are also going to go through. That's why I think you need some chemical treatment to adsorb the metals, or a closed hood. Or is there research somewhere showing that all metallic fumes form particles large enough to be caught in a regular P100?
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Feb 20, 2013 23:00
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There are respirators specifically rated for metal fumes and welding. They range from cloth with elastic straps to sealed full-face masks with a built in welding helmet and a powered belt-mounted filter unit.
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Feb 20, 2013 23:10
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Sagebrush posted:
From the 3M site about the 2297 I recommended: When properly fitted, use in a variety of applications including welding, brazing, torch cutting, metal pouring, soldering, and exposure to lead, asbestos, cadmium, arsenic, and MDA for concentrations up to 10 times the Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) with half facepieces or 50 times PEL with full facepieces. I know it doesn't specifically address zinc or galvanized but it's what we use on the job and our safety is retarded on site. They have info sheets that come with the filters I'll check if it says galvanized. I seem to recall this coming up before and this being the correct filter to use to protect against almost all welding fumes on clean base metal.
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Feb 21, 2013 14:55
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King of Gulps posted:Not to belittle the topic at hand, but this is a super funny sentence and I'm not sure why. Figured it out: it's funny either because (a) it's the exact opposite of this: quote:Lisa [in her sleep]: I want to help you, George Washington. or it's because (b) I welded a lot of galvanized pipe ten years ago with some box fans for ventilation
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Feb 22, 2013 05:22
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Sup everybody, here's some poo poo I made about a year ago. This was my first welded project, just an angle iron bookstand or something, revisited a while later and added the gold painted steel rod frills/supports and now it's an amp stand:   Then I made these guitar hangers out of ~3/8 rod welded to some old scrap steel gears. I might take a better lit pic of all 4 on the board, it actually looks pretty nice:  Then I made this cutout piece based on a mayan glyphs or something. It's two layers (three including the cheesy wood back) about 3/4" apart, hung on studs i brazed to the back of the front piece that are bolted to the wood. The rust and heat discoloration look more uniform in person, and it's gotten a bit more of a patina since I finished it.  Next to the others is a headless skeleton from a variety of scrap stuff and rods. Really dig the pose i got him to sit with, tried to keep the different limbs in proportion and it payed off. Fully extended i think he's about 5 feet tall. The spine was what I started with, kinda sparked the finished product. Cranked it out super fast for a show, didn't even try to clean up the flux core splatter.   Thanks for looking, anyone else do weird sculptural or architectural poo poo? Or are we a bunch of pipe welders and McLancelots.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:35
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It's pretty easy to remove galvanise using a weak citric acid solution. Citric acid is available from home brew places and is cheap and safe.
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Feb 22, 2013 23:09
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Sagebrush posted:How large does a particle have to be in order to get stuck in the filter, though? Monatomic helium is technically a "particle", for instance, but it's also a gas and passes through any filter that also passes air. So unless your filter is working on an atomic radius scale, any monatomic metal particles produced by offgassing are also going to go through. That's why I think you need some chemical treatment to adsorb the metals, or a closed hood. A p100 filter is 99.7% effective at capturing particles down to .3um. Lead, cadmium, zinc, and some others can create particulate down in the .000Xum range, but the bulk of it will be over .5um. A p100 filter will stop the vast majority, which is fine for intermittent exposure or low concentrations. Chemical filters aren't going to be any better. The only reactions you could do with particulate would be something that makes them clump up so they can be filtered mechanically and that kind of reaction won't fit in a mask cartridge. If you want better than p100 you need supplied air.
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Feb 23, 2013 13:14
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I know that lead, cadmium and zinc (and probably many other metals too) are adsorbed by activated carbon, though, regardless of particle size. So tossing one of those into the cartridge probably couldn't hurt.
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Feb 23, 2013 19:35
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Hey, how do you guys reduce the ringing on your anvil? I was going to just pick up a couple of magnets and place them on the heel/horn, but another smith I know recommended bedding the anvil in silicone (like bath silicone from a caulking gun). Will the magnets work, or do I need to wrap about 1000 chains around the drat thing a bolt it to my stand, bed it silicone, and pray to the smith gods? Edit: The magnets worked really well. sephiRoth IRA fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Feb 24, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 20:28
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Dishman posted:Sup everybody, here's some poo poo I made about a year ago. I like the spine/skeleton you made, that must have taken a while to cut out all the bits and shape them up. Nicely done. I've not had the chance to do anything too creative yet, but I'd like to someday. If I ever get the friggin time.
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Feb 24, 2013 17:42
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I love the skeleton. I really love spines for some reason. They work so well in metal. I've been experimenting with how to forge one. It's coming along well.
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Feb 28, 2013 19:36
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The Syrian rebels apparently have been using a lot of homemade weapons. This includes things like mortar shells made on massive, old-school lathes, armored cars made with welded steel plate and controlled by generic playstation controllers inside looking at tv's, and at least one 15 foot high welded trebuchet.   
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Feb 28, 2013 19:59
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I dig that trebuchet design.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:02
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That silver pendant I was posting about having trouble with earlier has nearly completely collapsed  It turns out that reheating soft solder joints repeatedly severely weakens them, which is magnified by the first failed joint being much, much harder to repair cleanly than the joint was to make in the first place. Time to silver solder it, which I was desperately trying to avoid because the pendant is too thin to afford being annealed any, and my torch is way too huge to be able to control the heat worth a drat in a flattened 1.6 mm wire.
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Mar 1, 2013 02:47
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Ambrose Burnside posted:That silver pendant I was posting about having trouble with earlier has nearly completely collapsed If I'm not too late to make a suggestion: I don't know what the pendant is like so I have no idea if this will work, but can you drill it, run a thicker jump ring through the hole and solder that shut to act as a bail? That way you don't actually have to solder anything to the pendant directly.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:11
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armorer posted:If I'm not too late to make a suggestion: I don't know what the pendant is like so I have no idea if this will work, but can you drill it, run a thicker jump ring through the hole and solder that shut to act as a bail? That way you don't actually have to solder anything to the pendant directly. Normally that's my approach, but- nah, the bail has to have a quarter-inch wide clearance for a fairly large chain, which requires a thick wire for the jump-ring to not instantly warp, which requires a fairly thick base portion to drill, which I absolutely don't have because- the entire structure is 1.6 mm wire round wire hammered down to rectangular strip.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:22
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e: Aahahahahaahah the pendant has completely collapsed and is far too distorted to be salvageable  There goes- ~25 hours of prototyping and fabrication on a project I would mayyyyybe break even on. Commission several months in the works is cancelled and I am sulking and also considering how cool it will be to have: no goddamn money next month. Guess that's what I get for trying to do fine work with lovely equipment and zero (0) money to get anything better!! e^2: ech, meant to edit. Oh well.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:39
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Ambrose Burnside posted:my torch is way too huge to be able to control the heat worth a drat in a flattened 1.6 mm wire. Do you have a pencil torch? They're pretty cheap. like this one, for example, which is $15 on Etsy (why it's on sale on Etsy I cannot fathom, I thought you could only sell handmade stuff there?). Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 19:40
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Leperflesh posted:Do you have a pencil torch? They're pretty cheap. I've given up on butane torches because I have literally never owned one (I have had... 5, 6? Including at least 2 that were actually high-quality) that didn't immediately irreversibly clog up upon the first refill. Only solution is to use very high-quality butane intended for cigars, and (are you noticing a common theme here?) I can't afford it compared to other fuels. Also can't afford to take an entire half-day out and pay $7 round-trip for the bus ride to the cigar place. ...sorry, I'm cranky, trying to do this poo poo for money on a shoestring budget is, as a whole, immensely intensely frustrating.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:48
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And that's why I hate taking commissions. When something isn't coming together I hate not being able to just walk away for a while and coming back fresh at a later date.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:36
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tonedef131 posted:The Miller 211 is right at a grand brand new and works on 110 and 220. I'm thinking about picking one up, I love being able to run 220 most of the time but also having the versatility of 110 when I need to weld somewhere other than my garage.  Picked this up today. Miller has a promotion where you get 15% off (mail in rebate) the welder if you buy $150 in accessories at the same time. Details here - http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/ Worked out good, got to support the local shop and got a great price on the welder and some other gear I needed anyways.
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