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Aargh posted:Regarding Tavore Are you sure you're remembering that right? Tavore is definitely Talon but I don't think Ganoes ever implies anything like that. The actual quote after Lostara sees the talon necklace: "The Adjunct sighed. ‘I am a child of the Emperor – what more is there for you to understand, Lostara Yil?’"
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Feb 18, 2013 08:01
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Fleshpeg posted:Are you sure you're remembering that right? Tavore is definitely Talon but I don't think Ganoes ever implies anything like that. The actual quote after Lostara sees the talon necklace: "The Adjunct sighed. ‘I am a child of the Emperor – what more is there for you to understand, Lostara Yil?’" Yeah, I'm overdue for a TCG re-read so my memory may be completely jumbled and wrong about this, but from what we see of Tavore's motivations there, she seemed to completely dislike the idea of Ganoes being involved in the army (though I can't remember if it was because of the inherent danger or because she didn't want him to experience the life of a soldier), so I'd find it extremely odd for Ganoes to be a Talon just because such a status would be inconsistent with those feelings. Oh Snapple! fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 08:11
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Oh Snapple! posted:Yeah, I'm overdue for a TCG re-read so my memory may be completely jumbled and wrong about this, but from what we see of Tavore's motivations there, she seemed to completely dislike the idea of Ganoes being involved in the army (though I can't remember if it was because of the inherent danger or because she didn't want him to experience the life of a soldier), so I'd find it extremely odd for Ganoes to be a Talon just because such a status would be inconsistent with those feelings. I can't remember if she ever says anything specific about Ganoes being in the army. But he definitely comes across as naive and idealistic in the prologue to Gardens of the Moon when he's talking to Fiddler and Whiskeyjack. Plus we see things from his POV in the books and he doesn't seem to hint at anything like that. Tavore is described as being serious beyond her years, which makes sense if she knew being a Talon was her destiny.
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Feb 18, 2013 08:33
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Dalmuti posted:Sweetest Sufferance and the One Eye Cats would be a pretty sweet jam band This really, really owns.
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Feb 18, 2013 10:21
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the least weasel posted:This really, really owns. next week they're opening for the Ochre Potsherd Inimical Jug Band
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Feb 18, 2013 20:12
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Are the Enkar'al supposed to be small dragons or something totally different? On my first read I thought of them as some kind of giant mantis for some reason and now I realise I was completely wrong
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Feb 18, 2013 22:17
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Fleshpeg posted:Are you sure you're remembering that right? Tavore is definitely Talon but I don't think Ganoes ever implies anything like that. The actual quote after Lostara sees the talon necklace: "The Adjunct sighed. ‘I am a child of the Emperor – what more is there for you to understand, Lostara Yil?’" Quick Ben studdied the mass of soldiers moving through the enemy supplies, and then he rubbed at his eyes. 'Ganoes Paran, what are we? Here, what are we?' Paran felt his face twisting as anxiety gnawed again at his stomach. 'Quick Ben, we're soldiers of the Emperor. It's all we ever have been.' Quick Ben shot him a look 'You were just a child when he ruled' Paran shrugged. 'Nonetheless.' 'Aye,' the High Mage muttered like a man trying to swallow bad news, 'nonetheless. Taken from when Paran, Quick and Kalam are playing with Sister Belie and her Watered. Ok on a reread that might be a bit of a long bow to draw but I'd definitely say Tavore is Talon, the significance of the necklace and she's had links with them in the past.
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Feb 18, 2013 22:49
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Re: the Parans I think it is more likely that Ganoes considers himself 'old guard' rather than a member of the Talon. Tavore we know so little about so and she has the necklace so sure why not
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Feb 18, 2013 23:28
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Scott Bakula posted:Are the Enkar'al supposed to be small dragons or something totally different? On my first read I thought of them as some kind of giant mantis for some reason and now I realise I was completely wrong Yes, sort of. I picture them as drakes, more or less, except maybe heavier in relative bulk, since they're built for physical combat rather than magical. The Enkar'al, Locqui Wyval, and one other named creature are apparently all the same thing, just named differently in different parts of the world. Habibi fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 02:06
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Do the Seguleh reappear after Memories of Ice? In particular the 1st. If so which book do they appear in? Don't tell me anything else though please
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Feb 19, 2013 21:29
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Scott Bakula posted:Do the Seguleh reappear after Memories of Ice? In particular the 1st. If so which book do they appear in? Don't tell me anything else though please Yes, but iirc not the 1st or the 3 from MoI.
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Feb 19, 2013 21:33
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A few show up here and there in later books, yes. More in ICE's books. Orb, Sceptre, Throne in particular is pretty much entirely about them. IMO It's his best novel, too (haven't read the latest yet though).
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Feb 19, 2013 22:23
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Habibi posted:That strikes me as a huge stretch. Its really not.
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Feb 20, 2013 14:07
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ed balls balls man posted:Its really not. Yeah, of course it's not. Why would it be a huge stretch when Ganoes makes no reference to it in his multitude POVs and presents instead a perspective that's virtually incompatible with being a Talon. 
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Feb 20, 2013 16:12
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ed balls balls man posted:Its really not. If he's a Talon, he doesn't know that he's a Talon in Gardens of the Moon. So between Gardens of the Moon and The Crippled God, he's done decades of secret training in spycraft and assassination under Emperor Kellanved?
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Feb 21, 2013 11:46
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I'm doing a reread of this series, the first in a couple of years. Just finished House of chains- drat that was depressing.
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Feb 21, 2013 16:16
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On a re-read of gardens of the moon, the part where Paran was killed by sorry and had his life bargained for by Oponn 'Of course,' the sister responded. "I'll look for another, a death premature. Meaningless, even.' The apparition was silent, then the head creaked in a nod. 'In this mortal's shadow, of course.' 'Agreed' 'My shadow?' Paran asked. 'What does that mean, precisely?' 'Much sorrow, alas,' the apparition said. 'Someone close to you shall walk through death's gate...in your place.' I guess Felisn's death was the price paid for Paran to survive. She was doomed from the start.
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Feb 22, 2013 15:27
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Mr Teatime posted:On a re-read of gardens of the moon, the part where Paran was killed by sorry and had his life bargained for by Oponn It could be worse. Far worse. There's a chance it was MOI major spoiler, later series minor spoiler)Whiskeyjack's death that was bargained for? Doesn't Hood show regret later for pretty much cheating to get him early?
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Feb 22, 2013 19:34
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Hey guys I tried asking this on reddit but I didn't get a response so I'll ask here, it's about Gardens of the Moon: One thing that's always been bugging me since finishing the first book is I cant seem to figure out what exactly Oponn's role was in the book, especially with the coin bearer since he just throws out the coin at the end. I'm guessing it has to do with that noble lady who was looking to get married but I don't understand how that affected other events in the novel and why it was so important for Lorn to kill off Crokus.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:40
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Masonity posted:It could be worse. Far worse. I don't think so. MoI spoilers, obviously: Hood wanted Whiskeyjack anyway for rescuing his sister from Hood's worshipers. He got greedy when Whiskeyjack was confronting Kallor and took the opportunity that was presented on what amounts to unthinking impulse.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:22
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Mr Teatime posted:On a re-read of gardens of the moon, the part where Paran was killed by sorry and had his life bargained for by Oponn Huh, somehow that never occurred to me. I guess at some point I somehow forgot Paran and Felisin were siblings. I was thinking it was one of his parents. Didn't Tavore have them executed with the rest of the nobles specifically to prove her loyalty after Paran went rogue? But yeah, Felisin makes a bit more sense.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:49
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Oh Snapple! posted:I don't think so. Yes. He got greedy and took the opportunity... Something that might have been easier to do if he was already owed a death, no? If Hood is owed a death close to Paran, and gets greedy when the man Paran idolizes is in a dangerous situation, where he is unlucky and ends up dead... Push and pull. It fits, for me.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:40
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Masonity posted:Yes. He got greedy and took the opportunity... Something that might have been easier to do if he was already owed a death, no? It's a distinct possibility, I suppose. It's honestly a pretty interesting thought because we don't know if Hood was given free choice of anyone close to Paran and chose Whiskeyjack, or if the bargain was made for a specific person with no real choice on Hood's part. Felisin and Whiskeyjack really are both perfect possibilities. I'm also wondering if it could have been Lorn.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:47
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Masonity posted:Yes. He got greedy and took the opportunity... Something that might have been easier to do if he was already owed a death, no? So yeah maybe it's possible, but I think it's a complicated possibility. Habibi fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 23, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 00:41
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Just started my first re-read of the series, feel like I've earned the Erickson fanboy medal now  Entire series spoiler question: So in GotM, it is strongly implied that the Rope/Dancer possessed Sorry because of a plan for personal vengeance: taking down the Malazan empire and Laseen. Laseen assassinated the Kellanved (and Dancer?), concocting the story about drowning, and then took over as Empress. Ok, fair enough. However, it is also made clear in a lot of places that Kellanved and Dancer wanted to be assassinated when they returned from traveling the Azath, so that they could ascend and consolidate their hold on Shadow. So why was Dancer on his quest of vengeance in GotM? Even if Laseen didn't know it, they wanted to be killed, so there is no need for vengeance. Was it for appearances only, so that other gods wouldn't suspect their larger plan?
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Feb 23, 2013 19:31
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polyfractal posted:Just started my first re-read of the series, feel like I've earned the Erickson fanboy medal now Possibly just for appearances. Even if she didn't know she was helping them ascend, maybe they wanted it to look like they were mad that she even tried to usurp them in the first place. If it was genuine, maybe it had something to do with Dancer and Surly's rivalry, which culminated with the Claw wiping out the Talons. However, I can't imagine that Dancer would endanger their master plan over a grudge, no matter how loyal he was to his Talons. I think it's commonly chalked up to being one of those GoTM inconsistencies.
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Feb 24, 2013 00:22
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Or was it just a bluff? Those two were planning HUGE poo poo. Freeing and killing and thus further freeing the crippled god. If anyone had realised what they were doing, they would have had a lot of enemies. Instead, they make it look like they are using their new powers to strike out against Surly. Everyone is worried they may make a grab for power and try to re take over the Malazan Empire. No-one watches their plots over in Kolanse. Or it could just be a GOTMism.
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Feb 24, 2013 00:47
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The original founders of the Malazan Empire were originally a tight-knit group of friends. Even though it works towards their goals of ascension, it still hurts on a personal level when someone you thought was a close friend is willing to plant a knife in your back and step over your corpse for personal power.
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Feb 24, 2013 01:10
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Ok just finished TCG and I have some questions. Why did Cotillion have to kill TCG when Heboric was touching him? Was that to ensure he would leave this world because his spirit/soul/whatever went up instead of being all godly on their world? Also, what part of the story set up Karsa going in and chopping that tusk of Fener to kill him over the battlefield? I don't remember that being set up and it was mentioned but not really explained why Fener was ok with dying. Also what happened with Tayschrenn? Last I remember he was holed up in some tower. I can't wait till he does the Karsa trilogy, Karsa and Tehol/Bugg are my favorite characters out of the series. FlyingCowOfDoom fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 24, 2013 |
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Feb 24, 2013 18:19
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Quote does not equal edit, sorry.
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Feb 24, 2013 18:35
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FlyingCowOfDoom posted:Ok just finished TCG and I have some questions. the karsa stuff is kinda foreshadowed in House of Chains when he breaks some random dude's Fener statue in Silver Lake
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Feb 24, 2013 19:00
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FlyingCowOfDoom posted:Why did Cotillion have to kill TCG when Heboric was touching him? Was that to ensure he would leave this world because his spirit/soul/whatever went up instead of being all godly on their world? Yeah, I figured that was just destroying his material form so that he could travel back to his home plane.
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Feb 24, 2013 19:43
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Boogle posted:The original founders of the Malazan Empire were originally a tight-knit group of friends. Even though it works towards their goals of ascension, it still hurts on a personal level when someone you thought was a close friend is willing to plant a knife in your back and step over your corpse for personal power. Also, IIRC the empire was supposed to go to Whiskeyjack. Whiskeyjack was a High Fist and the strongest power in the empire, both in terms of the loyalty he inspired and his individual strength of arms (IIRC he was supposed to be able to hold his own against Dassem). Laseen came in and killed the Emperor while threatening rebellion. IIRC it's implied that Whiskeyjack could have crushed her and become emperor himself, but he decided that allowing her to peacefully take command would be best for the empire. Dancer and Kellanved wanted out but not like that.
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Feb 24, 2013 20:15
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Masonity posted:It could be worse. Far worse. I still think it refers to Felisin, her death at her own sisters hand was both completely meaningless and tragic and the little things that occurred which prevented the rescue her sister had originally planner from happening stinks of 'luck'.
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Feb 24, 2013 21:21
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I'm a bit over half way through Bonehunters now and my memory of what I'd read is really starting to fail. Not sure why I remembered the early books that much better
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Feb 24, 2013 22:18
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Bonehunters just has a lot happening in it, to a lot of different characters spread all over the place. A lot more happens in the second half too. Probably my favorite ending sequence of any Malazan book.
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Feb 24, 2013 23:02
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NovemberMike posted:Also, IIRC the empire was supposed to go to Whiskeyjack. Whiskeyjack was a High Fist and the strongest power in the empire, both in terms of the loyalty he inspired and his individual strength of arms (IIRC he was supposed to be able to hold his own against Dassem). Laseen came in and killed the Emperor while threatening rebellion. IIRC it's implied that Whiskeyjack could have crushed her and become emperor himself, but he decided that allowing her to peacefully take command would be best for the empire. Dancer and Kellanved wanted out but not like that. I don't think it was a guarantee that Whiskeyjack would have beaten Laseen in a civil war, at least not without massive loss of life on both sides. At one point it's stated that that's exactly why he stepped aside - I think that happened in a conversation or flashback in MoI, between WJ and Dujek. Also, to be nitpicky, Laseen wasn't threatening rebellion - she was the regent while Kellenved and Dancer were off exploring the warrens, so she was already Empress in all but name.
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Feb 25, 2013 08:09
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Leospeare posted:I don't think it was a guarantee that Whiskeyjack would have beaten Laseen in a civil war, at least not without massive loss of life on both sides. At one point it's stated that that's exactly why he stepped aside - I think that happened in a conversation or flashback in MoI, between WJ and Dujek.
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Feb 27, 2013 07:00
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I'm nearing the end of Bonehunters now and I realise why I'd got my memory of the end of it and I think Deadhouse Gates so mixed up with Kalam in Malaz city. Other than what happens to Kalam though I don't really remember. Decided to put it off to finish tomorrow
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Feb 27, 2013 23:15
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Masonity posted:A Song Of Omtose Phellack and Tellann? Fuzzy Mammal posted:
Fleshpeg posted:I can't remember if she ever says anything specific about Ganoes being in the army. But he definitely comes across as naive and idealistic in the prologue to Gardens of the Moon when he's talking to Fiddler and Whiskeyjack. Plus we see things from his POV in the books and he doesn't seem to hint at anything like that. Tavore is described as being serious beyond her years, which makes sense if she knew being a Talon was her destiny. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 20:20
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