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I'm going to crosspost this video from the aforementioned europe thread, because more people need to see the loving joke our country is!KoldPT posted:http://www.cenasmaradas.com/miguel-relvas-tenta-cantar-grandola-vila-morena/ For context: that song was played in the radios to signal the start of the Carnation Revolution in 1974, and it's a song written by a communist about the peace and fraternity in a small portuguese village. Recently, people interrupted the PM's speech with the song, and nuestros hermanos in Spain seem to have adopted it too. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 19, 2013 14:53
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Amused to Death posted:Do you happen to know what specific city this was taken in? I've always imagined Bhutan as a pristine little place, this picture is just feeding that stereotype. That's Phuentsholing, opposite Jaigaon in West Bengal. This is the border gate as seen from the Bhutanese side.  I was really fascinated by that specific picture, too.
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Feb 19, 2013 15:08
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midnightclimax posted:Italy is about to vote in the general election come sunday the 25th february. Will Silvio make a triumphant return? Is Europe ready for more Bunga Bunga? I should probably read the Europe thread, because I really don't know. I am of two minds when it comes to Silvio. On the one hand he's a horribly corrupt and incompetent piece of poo poo that ran Italy into the ground and has almost complete control of the media. On the other hand the man is insanely amusing to watch on a global stage.  Berlusconi praises Fascist dictator Mussolini on Holocaust Remembrance Day  Oh Silvio...
Darkman Fanpage fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 15:58
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Dusseldorf posted:Well you probably can't imagine raping the slaves you own so there's a second thing. It was this odd, beautiful moment, and made it easier to see a white male slaveowner spouting racial superiority in public while still lusting after his slaves in private. And it made me even sadder about slavery.  On topic: slave quarters in Mt. Vernon. George Washington's slaves slept here. 
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Feb 19, 2013 15:59
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Crasscrab posted:I am of two minds when it comes to Silvio. On the one hand he's a horribly corrupt and incompetent piece of poo poo that ran Italy into the ground and has almost complete control of the media. On the other hand the man is insanely amusing to watch on a global stage. God, don't please. I loathe this argument "Yes, he's incompetent and horrid, but he's funny!", it's all you ever hear about Boris Johnson. Anyway, on border chat: 
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Feb 19, 2013 16:07
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Patomanso posted:"Before you kill yourself, take a banker with you" There's a wave of people setting themselves on fire in employment agencies(and other places) in France as well.Well there's been 4 cases in two days. 
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Feb 19, 2013 16:08
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Experto Crede posted:God, don't please. I loathe this argument "Yes, he's incompetent and horrid, but he's funny!", it's all you ever hear about Boris Johnson. Yeah, this guy is pretty much the poster child for that:  "Look at him do [ego-stroking thing]! Isn't he cool?" *Undermines civil rights, suppresses journalists and dissidents, etc.* Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 16:14
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Feb 19, 2013 20:09
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Experto Crede posted:God, don't please. I loathe this argument "Yes, he's incompetent and horrid, but he's funny!", it's all you ever hear about Boris Johnson. This looks like it might be in Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog.  A small village in the Netherlands containing 22 Belgian exclaves, which in turn contain seven Dutch exclaves. Some of the borders follow modern-day landmarks (such as the main roads out of the village), others appear to be completely random, diagonally intersecting streets and houses or defining little rectangles of unremarkable farmland. It's mostly the result of 14th century politics between nobles, ultimately set in stone by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1843. There have been several unsuccessful attempts to resolve this situation, and it caused the Germans a fair bit of confusion and frustration during both wars, but these days it seems be regarded mostly as a harmless oddity (which might be because it's the only remotely interesting thing about the village).
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Feb 19, 2013 21:22
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From Earth posted:This looks like it might be in Baarle-Nassau/Baarle-Hertog. For an artificially constructed buffer state, you'd have thought Belgium would have more clean, simplified borders.  And look what happens when you create artificial states along arbitrary lines. The sign says "Flemish Solidarity with White South Africa".
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Feb 19, 2013 21:39
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bowser posted:
Wow, I had no idea this was even a thing. Turns out Spain owns a tiny part of North Africa. Who knew?  The spanish city of Ceuta in Africa by LTCE, on Flickr
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Feb 19, 2013 21:42
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Wolfsbane posted:Wow, I had no idea this was even a thing. Turns out Spain owns a tiny part of North Africa. Who knew? They got a bit too excited with the Reconquista and carried on once they hit the coast. 
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Feb 19, 2013 21:49
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There's also the Brazil/France border:
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Feb 19, 2013 21:53
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bowser posted:PYF border pics To contribute to border chat, this is a "Dreilandenpunt" (at least it is in Dutch) - meaning "a place where the borders of 3 countries meet at a single point", and I'm the kind of sad old dinosaur who finds places like this fascinating. There are very few of them in the world, and fewer still that have all 3 segments of the border on dry land. (Assumedly if one of the countries is represented by a river as in the photo above, this would be a Wetlandenpunt ho ho). A couple of years ago I went to the one near to Vaals (in the Netherlands), and here is me (with face poorly photoshopped to protect the innocent), lying with my head in Belgium, my rear end in The Netherlands and my lower legs and feet in Germany. 3 countries for the price of one !! (Yes, yes, fat old bloke lol). This location is also interesting - at least to History buffs like me - for being very close to the exact point where Von Kluck marched his army across the Belgian border in 1914, therefore triggering the Great War. 
HCO Plumer GCB GCM fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 22:02
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IDF sniper instagramming his target. Also his target is apparently a kid.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:04
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HCO Plumer GCB GCM posted:To contribute to border chat, this is a "Dreilandenpunt" (at least it is in Dutch) - meaning "a place where the borders of 3 countries meet at a single point", and I'm the kind of sad old dinosaur who finds places like this fascinating. There are very few of them in the world, and fewer still that have all 3 segments of the border on dry land. I am not sure if I am understanding you right, because this is blantatly untrue. In America alone there are 14, helpfully marked out in pink on this random map I found(apparently it has something to do with quality of life).  "There are currently 157 international tripoints (i.e., tricountry points) by some accounts, and as many as 176 (or even 207) by others." Medieval Medic fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 22:20
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Medieval Medic posted:I am not sure if I am understanding you right, because this is blantatly untrue. In America alone there are 14, helpfully marked out in pink on this random map I found(apparently it has something to do with quality of life). Also, Kluck marching through into Belgium wasn't what triggered the Great War.  Von Kluck
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Feb 19, 2013 22:36
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Medieval Medic posted:I am not sure if I am understanding you right, because this is blantatly untrue. In America alone there are 14, helpfully marked out in pink on this random map I found(apparently it has something to do with quality of life). 157 places in the world. Re-sort the list for "places I could get to without winning the lottery". That's very few places. As you'll note from this helpful wiki list .. quite a few are pretty inacessible, and even when they're not, they're in quite exotic places. Anyway, by "rare" I guess I meant "not something you necessarily bump into in everyday travel". They're also rare and special enough that where they do exist, they're often marked by fuckoff big spectactular poo poo like this ..  .. whereas a pissant little 2-country border (like the one earlier between Netherlands and Belgium in some village somewhere), is often just a bunch of markings on the road, if there's a marker at all. Front wing flexing posted:Also, Kluck marching through into Belgium wasn't what triggered the Great War. Well, sure, several countries had declared war by that point, and ultimatums were flying, but the violation of neutral Belgium certainly made the situation even more of a "no-way-back-now" one than previously, and it absolutely did trigger the involvement of Great Britain, who until that point had a large fence post between their arsecheeks. Plenty of pedantry in this thread today. Should I start a Great War thread ? HCO Plumer GCB GCM fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 22:43
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Border crossing chat isn't the worst place this thread has gone to.  Franco-Dutch border.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:49
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Experto Crede posted:
That's Voorpost for you:  Can't really chalk this one up to Belgium. They'd still be racist assholes in an independent Flanders.
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Feb 19, 2013 22:50
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"Fall" of the Soviet Union? Never heard of it.    Transnistria
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Feb 19, 2013 22:55
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front wing flexing posted:Also, Kluck marching through into Belgium wasn't what triggered the Great War. I'm having trouble accepting that there was a general named "Von Kluck." It's like something out of a Warner Brothers cartoon. 
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Feb 19, 2013 23:05
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 On This Day in Pittsburgh History: February 19, 1968 “Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood,” the longest-running program on public television, premieres in America
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Feb 19, 2013 23:19
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Phlegmish posted:That's Voorpost for you: Yep, what's really bizarre is the general disdain for both Belgium and Netherlands amongst large swathes of the independence movementq. All my father would go on about is his contempt for Walloons, the dutch, the idea of Flanders in the Netherlands and Bart De Weever. Crazy bunch.  Karel Dillen, a key founder of thr mainstream racist flemish independence movement.
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Feb 19, 2013 23:30
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As an American tourist wandering through an older part of Antwerp I went into a cool looking bar that was painted yellow and had a giant black lion painted on it. I'm young and had longer hair then, and immediately got stink-eyes from a bunch of old men at the bar. Nevertheless me and my brother ordered a beer in English and sat down, when I realized the wall was covered in literal nazi propaganda and other fascist poo poo, including a poster honoring SS veterans. I finished my beer fast and got out of there. Here's a pic of it I found by googling "antwerp nazi bar" 
a bad enough dude fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 23:40
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Experto Crede posted:Yep, what's really bizarre is the general disdain for both Belgium and Netherlands amongst large swathes of the independence movementq. All my father would go on about is his contempt for Walloons, the dutch, the idea of Flanders in the Netherlands and Bart De Weever. Crazy bunch. So your dad is Flemish? Yeah, it's really quite confusing, you have organisations like Voorpost that are all about the Greater Netherlands, but in general the idea of reunification is very fringe. I guess your father doesn't like Bart De Wever and the N-VA because they're not hardcore enough, despite being separatist? Bart De Wever, mayor of Antwerp and chairman of the N-VA: Before  After 
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Feb 19, 2013 23:51
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Phlegmish posted:So your dad is Flemish? Yeah, it's really quite confusing, you have organisations like Voorpost that are all about the Greater Netherlands, but in general the idea of reunification is very fringe. I guess your father doesn't like Bart De Wever and the N-VA because they're not hardcore enough, despite being separatist? His logic, such as it is, is that De Wever and his party are hypocrites, all about Flemish independence during elections, but more than happy to take positions in the government afterwards. It's almost as if a party is more capable of achieving its goals in government than out, madness! Plus the whole BHV issue is a big sticking point. But basically he's a xenophobic person, both of race and political opinions. Because they're not radical racists, he thinks they're traitors to the cause.  Vlaams Belang hold all pork barbecue outside of a school with a large number of muslim students, before members break in and start attacking the kids with said pork. Claim it is a legitimate protest.
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Feb 20, 2013 00:14
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a bad enough dude posted:As an American tourist wandering through an older part of Antwerp I went into a cool looking bar that was painted yellow and had a giant black lion painted on it. I'm young and had longer hair then, and immediately got stink-eyes from a bunch of old men at the bar. Nevertheless me and my brother ordered a beer in English and sat down, when I realized the wall was covered in literal nazi propaganda and other fascist poo poo, including a poster honoring SS veterans. I finished my beer fast and got out of there. Here's the door of the bar:  Don't see it? Look closer.  See it?  Yup. There was a bit of a controversy about it when it was discovered, but I don't know if they actually removed it. I mean, seeing as it's full of nazi poo poo, why would they? Ah yes, the amorous relationship between the Flemish movement and the Nazis, it's something else. Flemish separatists actually collaborated during both world wars, though while they were still kinda wary during the first, they went balls out during the second.
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Feb 20, 2013 00:35
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R. Mute posted:Ah, you've found the Lion of Flanders. There's actually a little hint that should register even to non-Belgians that it's a Nazi-den: So uh... does it get burned down often? "July 10th 1932 - The original AFA holds congress" 
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Feb 20, 2013 01:08
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R. Mute posted:Yup. There was a bit of a controversy about it when it was discovered, but I don't know if they actually removed it. I mean, seeing as it's full of nazi poo poo, why would they? Ah yes, the amorous relationship between the Flemish movement and the Nazis, it's something else. Flemish separatists actually collaborated during both world wars, though while they were still kinda wary during the first, they went balls out during the second. Yes, because this one bar clearly equals 'the Flemish Movement'. You know, that's probably one of my biggest problems with Vlaams Belang and its satellites, they're the perfect excuse for people like R. Mute who don't give a poo poo about actual ideological nuances or the complexities of history and just have a political axe to grind.    From left to right: Louis Franck, Maarten Rudelsheim and Nico Gunzburg. These three Flemish Jews played an important role during the struggle for the Dutchification of the University of Ghent.
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Feb 20, 2013 01:14
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Ol' Bart here got in some trouble recently when he said he wanted to expand the currently existing law in Antwerp which says that public servants aren't allowed to wear any sort of garment or sign that would indicate they're part of some religion or some sort of political movement. They have to be neutral. This law is ridiculous as it is, because it's basically only to pick on Muslims. Anyway, he wants to expand this law to include rainbow-themed and other LGBT themed clothing/items. Now, of course saying that homosexuality isn't 'neutral' raises the question: what does Bart De Wever think is neutral in terms of sexuality and gender? But he took it one step further by calling homosexuality an 'obediëntie' - an archaic word used only in terms of monastic orders and freemasonic lodges which implies that homosexuality would be a choice. Of course, this is all hot air designed to get himself more attention. I spoke to the person who conducted that interview. He said he gave BDW the chance to go over the text and check to see if everything was right and he didn't change anything. Afterwards, he claims the usage of the word was meant to be 'ironic'. Of course, he then went straight to what he was waiting for all this time: another chance to cry about how everybody keeps being mean to him. How? By saying he was starting to fear a Pim Fortuyn scenario. Pim Fortuyn was a racist Dutch politician who really hated Islam and who was really popular during the early 2000's.  Fun fact: Pim Fortuyn was gay himself. Less fun fact for him: He was shot in 2002.  dead guySo, BDW is afraid of somebody shooting him (and plenty of people have a motive, I guess, seeing as he rages against pretty much every group out there) and he decides to express this fear shortly after he decided being gay wasn't 'neutral' and also was a choice. Also, for someone who vehemently denies that his party is racist, he chose a strange person to compare himself to. Of course, once enough headlines were written, he said it probably wasn't a good idea to say such a thing, because look at how people responded. Basically, Bart De Wever is total scum. But don't worry about him, only two politicians have been assassinated in the history of Belgium. One was Belgian Communist Julien Lahaut, who was gunned down on the 18th of august 1950 after yelling 'Vive La République' during King Boudewijn's coronation. The exact details of the affair are still murky, but an investigation is still digging up facts to this day. The gunmen were probably Leopoldists, Belgian royalists who were pissy about the whole Vive La République thing. They were part of the rightist, royalist resistance during the Second World War and were probably part of the anti-communist stay-behind network organised by the CIA - Gladio. You may have heard about Operation Gladio, it was involved in a lot of dirty things all over West Europe, but their role in Belgium hasn't really fully seen the light of day yet. They've been linked to a lot of things, though, ranging from this murder, to the clusterfuck that was the independence of Congo, the murder of Patrice Lumumba and the separatism in Katanga, and - maybe less plausibly - to the Bende van Nijvel. It's thought that the murder of Lahaut was meant to cause a violent reaction by the Belgian communists, who came out of WW2 with considerable support due to their large part in the resistance. Several other communist leaders were also on the kill-list. The violent response would then finally lead to the establishment of a right-wing, authoritarian system in Belgium, with the king at its head. The communists didn't respond violently, though, so in the end nothing came of it. The investigation into Lahaut's murder took this long to come to some conclusions, because the police and intelligence agencies were determined to do basically nothing about it. It took until two historians decided to figure it out in 1985 to get some more answers and to respark some interest. Interest that has only slowly been growing, but in the past few years some official research institutions have been tasked with finding out the truth once and for all. Interesting enough, there was an inquiry into Gladio during the early 90's, but nothing came of it and 'nothing untoward was found'. Anyway, here's Lahaut:  Here's his corpse  if you're squeamish. Here's his kick-rear end grave monument in Seraing:  The other assassinee was André Cools, a politician from the Parti Socialiste, who was on 18 July 1991 by two Tunisian hitmen with a Sicilian Mafia background hired by Alain Van der Biest, another PS-politician. I don't know a lot about this one, but the investigation into his death laid bare a bunch of corruption scandals which got a bunch of social democrat politicians in a lot of trouble. So again, André alive:  André dead: Click
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Feb 20, 2013 01:37
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Phlegmish posted:Yes, because this one bar clearly equals 'the Flemish Movement'. You know, that's probably one of my biggest problems with Vlaams Belang and its satellites, they're the perfect excuse for people like R. Mute who don't give a poo poo about actual ideological nuances or the complexities of history and just have a political axe to grind. 
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Feb 20, 2013 01:52
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R. Mute posted:Pim Fortuyn was a racist Dutch politician who really hated Islam and who was really popular during the early 2000's. Pim Fortuyn was a very interesting character and I don't feel like I'm able to say for certain whether he believed or stood for any single position out of any kind of ideological conviction or belief that a policy would lead to some kind of societally beneficial goal. The man would at times turn on a dime when it came to his policy positions and went from being an associate professor in Marxist sociology and communist to a xenofobic hard-right demagogue politician who had a good shot at being Prime Minister. A lot of his initial political message was about making the government smaller in scale to allow it to be brought closer to the people. Smaller schools, more health clinics, more local politics. At the same time, however, he also wanted less government involvement in education and healthcare and the police had to become tougher on crime. US Republican talking points, but masked very well as the ideas of a man who wanted to cut down bureacracy and bring the government closer to the people. A great way to sell neoliberalism in Europe, where people don't have the inherent distrust of government that seems to be so prevalent in the US. I've given it a lot of thought, and I think Fortuyn cared about one thing and one thing only, power for Fortuyn. He'd say anything, take any position, as long as he thought it'd get him more power. The most memorable moment, to me, and I only really saw this a year or maybe two ago, yet I think of it regularly, is his acceptance speech on November 25th 2001 as leader of the Livable Netherlands party (who kicked him out a couple months later, leading to him establishing his own party). He goes over all his policy positions on all kinds of domestic issues, and his charisma and talent at speeching shines, as he manages to hide his neoliberalism incredibly well, and paint a desirable vision for the future. Then he comes to this moment where he says "(in English) I had a dream (in Dutch) and that is a dream, of a world without borders, where you can be where you want. Where you can meet people, experience loves, make yourself useful, in the place which you choose. And then a plane came, and then another plane, and another plane and another plane, and then the dream was shattered." At the time I first really saw this a few years ago (I didn't pay so much attention to politics at the time this all took place) I thought that Pim Fortuyn was the face of cowardice. That part of his speech is unadulturated cowardice. To let 20 idiots destroy a vision, a dream, just like that, is to be a complete and utter coward. I think now however, that it was something worse. It was the face of a calculating demagogue who knew that many people were scared, and he could use and manipulate that fear to gain more power. Instead of aspiring to be a leader who would inspire people and help them find the courage to stand together, he encouraged them to embrace their fears and rip eachother apart. Islamophobia and racism were just a means to the end of him gaining more power. I'm glad he's dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGY37cYJOQ 4:44 in this video for the segment Unfortunately, his political legacy lives on.  
Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 02:24
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A better version of that poster:  and, as always when we have this same discussion, have some more Flemish collaborationist propaganda: "look towards the future, join the Germanic 'weersportkampen'"(seems to be some sort of games organised by the Hitler-jugend)  "Civilization or barbarism, do you still not understand?"  "Together we will crush him"  "Europe has assembled, with the Flemish voluntary legion in the battle against Bolshevism" 
ekuNNN fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 02:37
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Pim Fortuyn was a gay man who despised homophobic ideologies and made no secret of it. The establishment reaction to the new European right in the 1990s was bizarre to watch from over here in the US. It seemed like they focused their whole campaign on apocalyptic predictions of an imminent literal fascist takeover while allowing the neoliberal essence of Haider and Fortuyn's appeal to go unchallenged.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:50
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The producers of this "film" gave Ron Paul a silver coin and he mocked Ben Bernanke with it at a hearing. They're very proud of themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkQQ4MLasgs
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Feb 20, 2013 02:53
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R. Mute posted:Just tell me what's wrong about the statement that the Flemish nationalist movement was neck deep in the collaboration-bizz during WW2 and what part of my statement was wrong. Note that I didn't say 'literally every single Flemish Nationalist has Hitler tattoo'd on his or her rear end', so don't bother coming up with more single non-despicable Flemish nationalists as if the majority of the movement didn't root for the wrong team during the Second World War. (and the first, but that wasn't a majority) You stated, specifically, that there is 'an amorous relationship between the Flemish Movement and the Nazis', as if that's some kind of axiom that holds true regardless of space, time, context and the actual people/organisations involved. I'm not expecting anything remotely resembling an intellectually honest analysis from you, but don't be surprised when you get called out on it. Even the currently pro-Belgian communist PVDA has its origins in what was originally a 'nationalist' protest for the complete Dutchification of the University of Leuven, even if its later members mostly stressed the egalitarian aspect.  Here we have Ludo Martens, who would go on to co-found the PVDA, giving a speech about student democracy in 1968. The same Ludo Martens who, incidentally, started out as a member of the Catholic/nationalist KVHV. What a Nazi. On a more positive note, I do appreciate the fact that you spontaneously brought up the Royal Question, since it allows me to highlight the relationship between regionalism and the worker's movement in Wallonia. The Royal Question was about whether or not Leopold III would be allowed to return to Belgium after World War II. He was seen by many as having been too buddy-buddy with Hitler. In general, royalism/unitarism wasn't very popular in Wallonia at the time, especially among the socialists, who resented being dominated by a conservative Flanders. On top of that, there was the use of Belgian symbolism by fascist collaborators during WWII:   Eventually, a referendum was organized. A majority of Belgians voted to allow the king to return, but results diverged widely between Flanders and Wallonia, with Walloons being mostly opposed.  Fairly soon after that, riots and massive strikes broke out in the south of the country. At one point, several Walloon politicians even considered proclaiming independence.  These four people were shot by police near Grâce-Berleur and buried with the Walloon flag.  Text reads: 'THE KING...for the Flemish clergy! LAW & LIBERTY...for the Walloons!' 'Wallonia always fights and never gives in' 'Never again the king of the Walloons less still [the king] of the workers' The Walloon labor movement and regionalism/federalism remained inextricably linked in the following decades, which allowed Belgium to move towards federal structures from the 1970's on. ekuNNN posted:"Europe has assembled, with the Flemish voluntary legion in the battle against Bolshevism" Which is basically the same as the poster they used to recruit Dutch volunteers:  Those lazy, lazy propagandists. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 03:05
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bowser posted:PYF border pics China-Afghanistan, at the Wakhjir Pass, the only pass between the two nations. It has the largest time zone jump of any border (UTC+4:30 to UTC+8), is only 76 km long, and the closest road is 15 km away on the Chinese side and 100 km away on the Afghan side.  China-Pakistan  China-Tajikistan  China-Kazakhstan  China-India (not as far west, but still neat looking) 
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Feb 20, 2013 04:04
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you forgot one of the coolest china border which is between Nepal and China in a place known generally as Khasa (The town is called Kodari in the Nepali side and Zhangmu in the Chinese side): View from the Nepali side  View from the Chinese side  The bridge  The border goes along the river that passes through called Bhote Koshi. It has been an important trade location for a long time, and was one of the largest black-market route of entry for a good while, so much so that in Nepal people use the term Khasa to refer to something that is really cool/trendy/expensive looking (example; "those are some khasa jeans"). I remember back in 1998 when i went there, there were really no security stopping people from crossing and moving about. On the chinese side you could get all manner of goods from bootleg rolex watches to herbs and "medicine". But i heard that lately security has been stepped up and things have changed.
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Feb 20, 2013 04:29
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All this discussion of separatists in Europe reminds me of this clip from Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's trip to Quebec: Skip to 7m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF43P-FJrFo&t=7s
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Feb 20, 2013 04:32
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