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"cop cop" took about a week to teach to my dog. It's one of my favorite tricks to show people and she likes to do it too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHWuFb9Lb4Q
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Feb 18, 2013 17:56
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Thanks a life less, but he actually can spin! I'd totally forgotten until you mentioned it, sorry. Will add it in my post! I think that's all his tricks though. He is coming over in an hour so we will have our first bonding session tonight. 
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Feb 18, 2013 19:25
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I'm not really sure where to put this, but here goes: My girlfriend's dog pees in my house. A lot. And poops in my house. A lot. He's only been here six days altogether and has already peed four times and pooped twice. To the best of my knowledge, he never does this at her house. Now, it's not my dog so I generally let her take care of admonishing him or whatever, but does anyone have any idea why this would be? He's outside more when he's here than at her house (she lives in Queens and I live in the woods so I'll run around outside with him for an hour or so) so I don't think it's that he's being let out enough.
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Feb 20, 2013 16:40
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I'm not really sure where to put this, but here goes: My girlfriend's dog pees in my house. A lot. And poops in my house. A lot. He's only been here six days altogether and has already peed four times and pooped twice. To the best of my knowledge, he never does this at her house. Now, it's not my dog so I generally let her take care of admonishing him or whatever, but does anyone have any idea why this would be? He's outside more when he's here than at her house (she lives in Queens and I live in the woods so I'll run around outside with him for an hour or so) so I don't think it's that he's being let out enough. Admonishing doesn't work that well. Link to housebreaking post. He needs a housebreaking refresher, since dogs don't generalize well - houses aren't interchangeable. He's learned not to eliminate in her house, but your house is just another new place that smells different. The upside is that if he's housebroken in one place, it will go much faster to housebreak in a new place, but you need to monitor and contain him so that he doesn't have many more chances to screw up. I'd probably start relaxing the 'supervised at all times in the house' after a week with no accidents, starting with short blocks of time after he's gone out.
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Feb 20, 2013 17:01
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Engineer Lenk posted:Admonishing doesn't work that well. I actually think the link I put in the OP of the Puppy thread is a little more fleshed out. Link is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u53Bw5jWag--ZqjooOa14Fv7XzNyVZ9IpqLGbxQWnxc/edit Puppies are no different from adult dogs in terms of house training.
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Feb 20, 2013 19:35
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My dog Lola has been getting a little aggressive with my mother lately. When my mom is on the computer in the living room Lola will sit next to her and start to growl and paw at her legs for a treat. She only does this with my mom though and never when I'm around. She has toys and antlers to chew on in that area but she wants treats specifically. My mom would ignore it but Lola's pretty heavy handed with pawing and her nails are pretty thick and it's painful. How do I deal with this?
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Feb 21, 2013 23:27
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What you describe is not aggressive behavior. If this is truly just bratty whining that results in her getting a treat, she's training your mother to give her treats on command. To eliminate it, just stop. Your mother will experience what's called an "extinction burst" first, which means the behavior will get more and more insistent because it has worked so well in the past until finally the dog gives up all together and the behavior becomes "extinct." If you truly believe that your dog is displaying aggression, you need to be more detailed about what is actually occurring.
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Feb 22, 2013 01:59
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MrFurious posted:What you describe is not aggressive behavior. If this is truly just bratty whining that results in her getting a treat, she's training your mother to give her treats on command. To eliminate it, just stop. Your mother will experience what's called an "extinction burst" first, which means the behavior will get more and more insistent because it has worked so well in the past until finally the dog gives up all together and the behavior becomes "extinct."
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Feb 22, 2013 16:17
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Rixatrix posted:Make sure to get your mom to give Lola treats when she is doing something nice. People often tend to only notice "bad" behavior and ignore the "good", when generally it should in fact be the opposite. Specifically, I would start rewarding the dog for sitting or laying down, both with attention and with food. You can go ahead and ask for the sit or down at first to show that's what you want and then just make sure you reward it anytime it happens spontaneously until the dog has learned that sit=treat in that context. My dog used to do the clawing thing and it was painful and she valued any attention she got from it, even if I was just pushing her off cuz she was hurting me or getting up to remove her. Putting her in another room was only marginally effective because she didn't know what else to do with herself when she came back (which isn't to say it won't work on a different dog, with some it is very effective). So the best solution for her was to give her an alternative behavior and really reinforce it. Just make sure you don't accidentally chain the behavior (dog claws -> you ask or wait for sit -> dog sits -> treat -> repeat). You can avoid this by getting the sit in there before the clawing starts or, after the dog has learned that sitting is rewarded, only rewarding for sitting without clawing.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:43
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Proofing recall. Okay, my dog is about 90% good for this when off-leash in a dog park where there are not a lot of dogs. However, if there are a lot of dogs, his percentage goes way, way down. Here's what I've tried: Taking him to the dog park on a long (30-ft) lead. Outside the park, having him come to me 20 times before we go into the park, using high-value treats. Then, in we go, and he does look at me when he's playing--but he knows he's off-leash at this point and there's nothing I can do. I can't give him high-value treats because if I take them into the dog park, I get mobbed. Somebody's big dog actually knocked me down. (This did not go over well with my dog and I had to grab him and leave. He was out for revenge. I don't know whether he felt protective of me, or his treats, or, probably, both.) Or: he will gallop across the dog park when I call him and swerve when he gets just out of reach. Mostly not, but he does this enough that I would say we are at some sort of plateau. There are places in this city where, if a dog is reliable, it's considered ethical to let him off the leash. If there is even the slightest chance he might run and bother somebody, then it's rude. There are also a couple of off-leash places that aren't fenced, and I can't take him there until he's ready to come when I call him, 100% of the time. How do I get him there?
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Feb 27, 2013 07:12
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First, I'd still bring the highest value treats you can to the park to work on recall. If you're getting mobbed by other dogs, the other dogs' owners need to step in. It's completely inappropriate for them to act like that. Sometimes I get dogs following me and sniffing/mobbing at my bait pouch (and one that jumps up and actively tries to dig in) but for the most part if you ignore them they'll go away. If they don't, speak to the owners. Have you read all the links in post 4 of the OP dealing with recall? There's some good stuff in there. If you're absolutely serious about wanting to work on your dog's recall and have a few hundred bucks burning a hole in your pocket, I believe Susan Garrett's Recallers 5 is about to open up registration. I took it with Cohen and it helped immensely. I'd say that her recall is 98-99%, and the missing 1-2% is when there's food on the ground, and I admit I've not worked on food-on-ground distractions enough with her. The key is to make yourself the gateway through which your dog receives all reinforcement. You need to offer not only great food rewards, but awesome play rewards too. A dog is not always motivated by food, but if you offer hugely fun times too you can increase the odds of your dog choosing you over its environment. A basic run down of the activities I remember doing is... lots of restrained recalls, hide and seek, chase games, tug-drop-run-tug, distance control, conditioning a dog to recall to its name, crate games, the "go see" game where you cue your dog to go say hi then come right back for a reward... Consider starting over with a new recall cue. If "come" is optional, create a new cue that is not optional, and hasn't ever had the opportunity to be ignored. Use hand touches and collar grab games to work on his tendency to stop short & just out of reach. Collar grab games are just working them into fun times and classically conditioning you grabbing the collar via high value rewards. Hand touches help bridge the gap too - I use them a lot with my Chihuahua. You need to figure out what he's having trouble with, and arrange these things on a list of easiest to hardest. You'll also want to create a list of reinforcement items and behaviours, arranged from least to most valuable. Work easiest to hardest, and use an appropriate value reward. As behaviours get easier, keep the best stuff for the harder exercises. Here's a link to Garrett's webinar. She normally releases a slew of these as course registration opens up. I've not actually watched this round, but if it's like last sessions, there will be links to part 1 and 2 available here too. They normally have some good ideas. And please forgive the heavy advertising slant. http://r4.brilliantrecalls.com/sq/22998-synchronizing-desires E: I also am not a huge fan of having a dog drag a long leash. I kind of think that it adds a level of compulsion into recall that can poison the cue. Instead, don't let your dog off leash if you think there's a chance he'll blow you off, especially when you're first re-teaching the cue. I think I was told not to let my dog off leash unless I was willing to bet $100 she'd come. There's plenty of middle ground type of situations where you can offer some freedom while working within the confines of your dog's abilities. a life less fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 14:40
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I've only gone to one dog park here in Los Angeles but there are big signs that say no food allowed inside. I have seen people in there with food on the ground for their puppy. Penny smelled it and checked it out but had no interest in eating it when the people offered her a piece. Which is normal at a dog park. No food allowed or food allowed?
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Feb 27, 2013 19:11
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Rhymes With Clue posted:Here's what I've tried: Taking him to the dog park on a long (30-ft) lead. Outside the park, having him come to me 20 times before we go into the park, using high-value treats. Just to address this, by calling him to you and rewarding him so much outside of the park when he's on the long lead, then not doing so when he's inside, you are making a very clear boundary that behaviour in X place gets him this reward, and behaviour in Y place gets him no reward. Dogs aren't dumb, and by calling him so much before you go in you're actually cementing that boundary further. Do you call your dog to you often and not reward him in the park? Or only call him at the end when it's time to go? For the former you're actively showing him that recalls inside the park are rewardless, and for the latter you'd be associating a recall with end of fun. a life less posted:E: I also am not a huge fan of having a dog drag a long leash. I kind of think that it adds a level of compulsion into recall that can poison the cue. Instead, don't let your dog off leash if you think there's a chance he'll blow you off, especially when you're first re-teaching the cue. I think I was told not to let my dog off leash unless I was willing to bet $100 she'd come. There's plenty of middle ground type of situations where you can offer some freedom while working within the confines of your dog's abilities. Are you saying that you think a dog should either be on a normal sized leash or off leash? That's pretty limiting. Long leashes are a great backup security measure.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:19
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Hdip posted:I've only gone to one dog park here in Los Angeles but there are big signs that say no food allowed inside. I have seen people in there with food on the ground for their puppy. Penny smelled it and checked it out but had no interest in eating it when the people offered her a piece. I think it's kind of a regional thing. Here it's completely normal to bring food. The rationale behind food not being allowed is so as not to instigate a resource guarding conflict, which I can understand, but I would rather have to be a bit more vigilant and still bring my food out with me. Fraction posted:Are you saying that you think a dog should either be on a normal sized leash or off leash? That's pretty limiting. Long leashes are a great backup security measure. Limiting for sure. Though as always what you limit to start should pay off via it being less limiting later. I don't think anyone is going to really going to experience much fallout when occasionally using a long line as a back up measure, but I think that there's a greater issue if you need to compel your dog to come to you. If you rely on it habitually what reason does the dog have to come to you unassisted in the future? Plus I find them inconvenient and gross once I see it dragged through a recent pee or poo spot.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:37
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What is consider a high value treat?
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Mar 1, 2013 22:07
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That depends on the dog. The dog determines what is high value to them. Generally things like tiny chunks of "human food" (e.g. cheese, hot dogs, ham, chicken) are considered high value. Some people find their dogs flip out over baby carrots.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:13
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Me again. So, is there a way to teach Winston to not sit right beside our bed, at face level, whining that is after 6am and we aren't up yet? If I have the day off, or drew the short straw and have to work a closing shift, he just assumes I'm never getting up and it's his doggy duty to wake me up. Letting him out of the bedroom works, I just wondered if there was a "proper" way to handle. Edit: he will kill your family for a slice of apple. Your. Whole. Family.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:22
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I have a similar problem to XIII. Our nearly 2 year old border terrier has recently started waking my husband up early. She used to be really well trained and never bothered us until our alarm went off, she's also never had problems holding her pee during the night. Over the past few weeks she has been whining earlier and earlier, my husband has reinforced her behaviour by getting up, putting her out to pee then feeding her (despite me telling him over and over not to, grr!). This week my husband finally lost his temper and agreed to ignore Eccles no matter what, as a result Eccles has started peeing indoors, something she has never done in the mornings before. Any ideas on how to break this nasty new habit? I read one tip online about setting the alarm earlier, then gradually setting it later and later until the dog gets back into the habit of not rising before the alarm. Does this sound like a good idea? Anybody have success with other techniques?
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Mar 4, 2013 08:35
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Dr Scoofles posted:Any ideas on how to break this nasty new habit? I read one tip online about setting the alarm earlier, then gradually setting it later and later until the dog gets back into the habit of not rising before the alarm. Does this sound like a good idea? Anybody have success with other techniques? There's two different problems and you're trying to address them as if they're one. Break it down: 1 - Dog wants to get up earlier than is acceptable. The answer to this is the same as before - just ignore it. It will take time, but it will eventually stop, provided you don't reinforce the behavior from now on. 2 - Dog needs to pee early in the morning. Clearly she's drinking shortly before bedtime. Start monitoring her water intake starting about two hours before bedtime. It's best if you have a reasonably set schedule for when you go to bed and when you get up. If it's changing all the time, it's not very fair to the dog. Make sure you give her a chance to pee right before you head to bed. In my house, we distinguish this as being different by calling it "last outs", but that's not really necessary. If she's peeing before bed and still having accidents in the morning, then you need to take up her water at least 1 hour before bed, maybe 2.
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Mar 4, 2013 15:51
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A quick hint to Rhymes with clue first: Do not use your future 100% cue, if you think your dog won't come. You need to make it work in tough situations using gradually increasing distractions. If you think your dog won't go and get him. If he won't come you can pretend you're leaving, crying, "sniffing the ground" and/or use another cue (get him to come close and cue sit for instance). I actually promote using up to four different "recalls" depending on the situation. The lifesaver recall (conditioned reflex (to a dog whistle)), your basic recall, a come closer cue and a proper obedience recall if applicable. I know one could use one and be successful, but as I have a tendency to talk to my dogs I've needed something (the come closer cue) I don't have to worry about poisoning. With Healy and TyTy I'm not worried about their recalls. I know they will come, when I want them to come. It might take a couple of cues, but they will come. (I haven't really actually taught TyTy a recall using tangible rewards yet. Healy has been taught the proper obedience recall.) Dr Scoofles posted:Any ideas on how to break this nasty new habit? I read one tip online about setting the alarm earlier, then gradually setting it later and later until the dog gets back into the habit of not rising before the alarm. Does this sound like a good idea? Anybody have success with other techniques? If you've crated that could work, but I think this step requires that you are sure it's not medical.
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Mar 4, 2013 18:17
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Riiseli posted:A quick hint to Rhymes with clue first: Do not use your future 100% cue, if you think your dog won't come. You need to make it work in tough situations using gradually increasing distractions. If you think your dog won't go and get him. If he won't come you can pretend you're leaving, crying, "sniffing the ground" and/or use another cue (get him to come close and cue sit for instance). Unfortunately, everybody says her name a billion times (I had a coworker who'd greet her with "Devodevodevodevodevodevo!" every morning) so her name doesn't seem to be the safest word to use. She also gets confused by other people besides me whistling, occasionlly. I maybe say her name once or twice to half-dozen times a day, mostly when I'm recalling her away from other dogs and out of people's offices, so I thought I could get away using it, but I will probably have to work on prioritizing the other recalls/checks over her name. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 20:39
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So after a long period of having a clicker and only half heartedly using it (turns out we weren't using a high enough value treat for her) and long periods of reading through this thread, I felt confident enough to start using this properly. Our rescue Rottweiler has come out of her shell when she's with us now, which has revealed a whole bunch of problems neither of us were ready for, for instance see my earlier posts in this thread where it turned out we were basically doing EVERYTHING wrong. She's become super territorial of the house, to which we had an incident where she managed to escape our grasp, and threaten two poor people who were walking past, it was scary, we felt awful and at that point made a resolution to start taking this seriously. I started the clicker training after watching the youtube videos linked in the OP as well as all the relevant information and ordered the beginners click training book by Karen Pryor, and things have gotten off to a magnificent start. The tricks she knew are now very firmly ingrained, and has picked up new ones very, very quickly. But the biggest one for us is to get her to ignore strangers, normally she'll run to the front door, barking and growling and making all kinds of a ruckus, but we found out we can get her to elicit the same reaction under a controlled environment by having one of us go the front door, while we keep her in another room and have them knock on the door. We tried it with Ada (our dog) in the very back room of the house with the hallway door closed, the knock was loud enough for her to hear it, but not so loud that it drew all her attention, and with the clicker and some hot dog pieces in tow, we managed to get her to a point where she would cock her head and look...and that was it, we could draw her attention to us very easily and quickly. I think this is the right thing to do but I am new to this, but I guess I just want some confirmation that we are proceeding correctly. The plan after is to slowly move her progressively closer and closer to the front door (we have lots of branching rooms so she won't be able to see my partner knocking), and then to have my friend, with their very relaxed dog, to practice just walking past on the foot path, then eventually to have THEM knock on the door. Is this a good plan to proceed? Also, what's the consensus on DAP diffusers and collars? She is already a fearful dog, and I want to use as many tools as I can to help, but they're expensive to pick up in Australia, so i want to get some opinions on it before I drop all that money. How long should a training session last? We had a good run tonight and she seemed eager to keep going, and all up spent about 40 minutes in 20 minute blocks training with her. All that aside, thanks thread! For having all this information freely and readily given and available, I already feel much more confident about having a dog like her and dealing with the problems that have come up
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Mar 5, 2013 11:48
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I'm not sure your handling of the strangers issue is appropriate, but it's hard to be sure because there are some things that are unclear. If the problem is simply that she charges the door to see new people, then what you're doing is appropriate. You are essentially training an incompatible behavior cued by the doorbell or the knock so that she doesn't rush the door. If, on the other hand, your dog is afraid of strangers, you are managing the situation, but you aren't changing it. In that case you need to be counter-conditioning (which doesn't use a clicker) your dog to strangers and people in general in different environments. quote:Also, what's the consensus on DAP diffusers and collars? She is already a fearful dog, and I want to use as many tools as I can to help, but they're expensive to pick up in Australia, so i want to get some opinions on it before I drop all that money. quote:How long should a training session last? We had a good run tonight and she seemed eager to keep going, and all up spent about 40 minutes in 20 minute blocks training with her.
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Mar 5, 2013 16:45
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Hello! I need some assistance with "down" A little back story about my dog, she was abused, and is very cautious of new people and places. We are in CGC classes at the moment and it has helped her immensely with her self esteem and she has improved greatly. Now, she KNOWS all the commands, she will sit, stay, come etc etc with NO TREAT. Now, the down... she will listen, and obey to my "down" command when theres a treat. When theres no treat, she completely ignores me and stats looking around. This is when I get her to "LOOK!", and sometimes she doesnt even do it, but will keep her focus on other things, like her surroundings etc. I am getting frustrated, I cant lie, so we have been practicing daily (multiple times) for short amount of times, and when I see her drifting off or if I can sense I am am getting frustrated, we stop. The only reasons why she will fail the test is because of this (if she doesnt shy away from the evaluator). She knows the command. I have tricked her by thinking I have the treat and it works 1 time until she realizes I have none. This is a command I want her to know, and master, and I dont know why she will not do it. She is so great with everything else. Her sits are seamless, auto stops are fast and never need correction. and this down, is just driving me crazy! I dont know what I can do to make her feel more comfortable, or maybe, shes just not ready. Maybe its too submissive for her and maybe we just need more time?
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Mar 5, 2013 19:03
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What type of dog is she? If she has a thin coat or a boney frame then the position may be uncomfortable for her. Try working on a pad, blanket, bed, etc. It sounds like you're running into the issue of not being able to fade the lure. You need you branch from luring with the treat right on her nose to hiding in your hand to luring with one hand and rewarding with the other to series of behaviours for one reward, etc. A lure is a bribe. A reward comes after the behaviour has been achieved. This is an important distinction that will help you better, more reliable behaviour in the future. It also sounds like you've poisoned your "down" cue. That means that there are negative associations made with it that will make the dog unwilling to comply as a result. I would go back to the beginning and teach down all over again with a new word and everything. Pretend she's a puppy who has never learned the behaviour before. Now that you're re-teaching it, it's your #1 priority to ensure your dog enjoys the learning process every step of the way. Keep a high rate of reinforcement, keep the mood light and fun, keep sessions short and use lots of play to break up the sessions. You need to stop your sessions way before she starts losing interest. That may mean that you only work on the behaviour for 15 seconds at a time a few times a day to start. Always leave her wanting more. If you feel yourself getting frustrated, STOP. Take a breath. Remind yourself that training is supposed to be fun for both you and your dog. If it's not, you're doing something wrong, so take a break to figure it out and reapproach when you're both feeling better. Sensitive dogs can pick up on your frustration instantly and it's not really an option to work through it.
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Mar 5, 2013 19:23
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a life less posted:What type of dog is she? If she has a thin coat or a boney frame then the position may be uncomfortable for her. Try working on a pad, blanket, bed, etc. Thanks! She is an American Bulldog. She has a short coat, she is lean but not boney. I will try to use a different word for down, maybe "lay" ? I guess I may have spoiled it and made in a negative thing, unknowingly even though I would stop as I felt frustrated!  Also, I will use the technique you mentioned of luring with the treat and then switching the hands the treat is given from, I never even thought of that! Great advice! I will work with her on this when I get home. Thanks! 
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Mar 5, 2013 20:36
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malcriada posted:Thanks! She is an American Bulldog. She has a short coat, she is lean but not boney. You can see the "fake cookie hand switch" tactic here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI10cPj7kYA It's a good way to get your dog used to following a hand signal even if there's not foot immediately present, as she will learn that a reward will come even if it's not dangling in front of her face.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:45
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MrFurious posted:I'm not sure your handling of the strangers issue is appropriate, but it's hard to be sure because there are some things that are unclear. If the problem is simply that she charges the door to see new people, then what you're doing is appropriate. You are essentially training an incompatible behavior cued by the doorbell or the knock so that she doesn't rush the door. Well we haven't started with doing anything with strangers yet, but I guess to clarify, it's not a "happy-run-to-the-door-to-say-hello" kind of rushing, it's a "get the hell off my property" rushing. She's become quite territorial of the house since she's began to trust us more and settle in since we got her, and she is definitely wary of strangers which is one of her biggest problems, so it's probably a mix of the two which is causing it. So I guess we're not doing it completely correctly. What would be the best way to counter-condition her aversion to strangers on our property? I watched the video linked in the OP, would it just be a case of getting people we know (and trust) to come towards the door and load her up with treats?
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Mar 6, 2013 11:24
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screaden posted:Well we haven't started with doing anything with strangers yet, but I guess to clarify, it's not a "happy-run-to-the-door-to-say-hello" kind of rushing, it's a "get the hell off my property" rushing. She's become quite territorial of the house since she's began to trust us more and settle in since we got her, and she is definitely wary of strangers which is one of her biggest problems, so it's probably a mix of the two which is causing it. So I guess we're not doing it completely correctly. There are a number of ways you can handle this. You're asking about strangers specifically on your property, but what about outside of the house? Do you take her anywhere? How does she behave there? What about when you go to the vet? To start - if you ever believe that there is a chance, even remote, that she could bite someone when you're working with her, make sure she wears a muzzle. Look for a basket muzzle (like this). This is for your safety, the individual in question's safety, and more importantly, your dog's safety. Next, get some extremely high value treats that she can take through the muzzle. This varies from dog to dog, but make sure you use small pieces or, even better, you can get something mushy (peanut butter, Kong Stuff'N, whatever) and put it in a frosting dispenser. There are some products like this out there, but I can't find any in a 60 second amazon search. Lastly, you need the stimulus you're trying to counter-condition -- strangers. If you can open the shades and let her watch people on the street, perfect. If you need to set something up, you can do that too. Remember that if your dog is not taking food, the stimulus is too strong and you need to reduce it. In this case, that means you need to increase distance, most likely. Do small sessions (5-10 minutes) multiple times a day and see how it works. Good luck.
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Mar 6, 2013 15:41
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screaden posted:She's become super territorial of the house, to which we had an incident where she managed to escape our grasp, and threaten two poor people who were walking past, it was scary, we felt awful and at that point made a resolution to start taking this seriously. How exactly did she behave towards those people? Posturing? Barking? Rushing and snapping? Was this a typical response for her? Has she reacted in a similar way before? Knock training sounds like a good way to start helping your dog become less anxious or territorial. It sounds like you have a good plan for working on that. Training an appropriate reaction to people entering your house is something I'm working on with my own dog presently (though it's slower going when you don't have people to help you). You should also work on your dog's feelings towards strangers, both in and out of the house. A training session's length is highly dependent on an individual dog, in my opinion. The general rule of thumb is for them to not exceed fifteen minutes iirc though.
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Mar 7, 2013 12:18
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Fraction posted:Just to address this, by calling him to you and rewarding him so much outside of the park when he's on the long lead, then not doing so when he's inside, you are making a very clear boundary that behaviour in X place gets him this reward, and behaviour in Y place gets him no reward. Dogs aren't dumb, and by calling him so much before you go in you're actually cementing that boundary further. If I have the Chuck-It armed and ready to launch, I can get him to sit or go down even when he's really far away from me. He thinks if he does that, then I will throw the ball for him, because that's what always happens. So yeah, I call him in the park, but I don't reward him because he comes toward me but not to me, and he's not interested in a treat even if I do get hold of him. I thought that having him come to me outside the park would reinforce this, but it didn't actually work that way. The thing is it's hard to come up with a middle ground. It's either not much distraction, or a whole lotta distraction. Outside the dog park was supposed to be the middle.
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Mar 10, 2013 06:17
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^^^ Could you call him to you & reward with a ball toss, outside and inside the park? Just: cue recall, throw ball, take ball, send him back to play. How do I train my dog to... stop scratching up the carpet/door when she's in another room in colder months? Jess takes herself willingly in there when it's warmer, but when it's cold she just wants to sit in front of the fire. If I go to the door to shout at her (the only way to get her to stop - when she first started doing it I ignored it, but we live in a rented house), she tries to slide past me out of the door, won't settle on her chair, and is just generally an rear end. It's not separation anxiety. When she gets out she isn't interested in me, just the fire (even if it's not on; she thinks if she sits there enough I'll turn it on). It's not horribly cold in there, no colder than anywhere else, but it's the only place I can put her when I walk Lola or am out of the house. She scratches in the crate in my room if I stick her in there, but if she's crated upstairs she also whines loudly the entire time. Just stop scratching dogggggg
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Mar 10, 2013 12:00
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Whats the safety issues with using an electronic collar on an older lab (12) that has been trained using the electronic collar. Basically, Im running into the issue that this well behaved dog now realizes I cant punish it, plus it now having a better more relaxed lifestyle than before, since it was a pheasant hunting dog and only that. Now its a pet, but some bad behavior signs are starting to show through. Mainly in regards to having her stay close. Used to she would stay within 30 yards, ALWAYS. Now, after some testing, she has decided that she can range farther. This isnt an issue on the leash, but in the woods, I would prefer her close, especially since she is a quiet dog. Recall well trained, as is heel, but their compliance levels are going down slowly. Unfortunately, her ears are going as well, so sometimes I wonder if its honestly her not hearing me. Which brings us to the electronic collar. Would using the warning buzzer (very light, not painful to the palm of my hand) serve as a better recall tool? Ive tried a clicker and a whistle, but she doesnt respond well to either of those. The vet who helped train her is a close family friend, and confirms that she had an electronic collar during training and during hunting trips. Whats yalls feelings on this matter?
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Mar 11, 2013 05:28
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Trauts posted:Whats the safety issues with using an electronic collar on an older lab (12) that has been trained using the electronic collar. Basically, Im running into the issue that this well behaved dog now realizes I cant punish it A good recall should be more "wait for it --- ok, you may come to me now" with the animal running to you in eager anticipation of something great happening, rather than "come to me now or else". I think the last few pages have had a lot of good discussion on training a good recall. If the dog wants to come to you because you're the best thing in the world, it won't want to wander off too far either. Or if it does, you can call it back as soon as you want and each time you call it to you, the recall will get stronger and stronger because it's based on good things and reinforcement. You should also check the OP and get some of the books and other materials referenced in there. If your dog is indeed losing its hearing, I don't think there's a problem with choosing a non-audible recall cue. Topoisomerase has a deaf dog and might have better input on this. Edit. Tell me more about how you used the clicker and I might be able to give you more specific input.
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Mar 11, 2013 07:36
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Is your lab ball crazy like most of them are? Ball crazy dogs can be pretty easy to train to have a fast, reliable recall if you always reward with fetch and restrict balls to training rewards only.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:42
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Trauts posted:This isnt an issue on the leash, but in the woods, I would prefer her close, especially since she is a quiet dog. If you're just worried about where she is when you can't see her, put some bells on her collar. The bells will keep you from jumping most animals and you'll be able to hear her a lot further than 30 yards. There is probably very little chance of a 12 year old lab running away on you so letting her range a bit further means she gets more exercise.
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Mar 11, 2013 16:01
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I have a wonderful but super reactive mutt named Rufus. When we adopted him, we were warned that he was a "butthole" with other dogs, but that this should just mean he wouldn't be a dog park dog but would be OK otherwise. Well, that ended up being a huge understatement, although I think we have also made his reactivity worse. What he does inside: sees dog outside window, growls, barks, tail wags like crazy, whines if curtains are closed or dog moves out of sight. His range is very long for this- growling will start as soon as he can see a dog, and he will run to the window from another room if he can hear a dog. What he does outside: from long range (~50 yards) will lock on to a dog, stare, start shaking, pull on the leash. A few yards closer and he will get down in a crouch and start barking. Around 30 yards he'll jump and lunge and start snapping, and he just gets worse if a dog gets closer than that. The trainer at the MSPCA (where he was adopted) started us with desensitization, but we haven't been very consistent with it. His training in general has kind of slipped lately (not as fast to respond to sit or recall, slow to go down from a sit on request). We also went with a head halter for walks after speaking with her. So, my plan is to reboot the training, work on the mat work someone posted above and move on to the protocol for relaxation and deference from Dr. Overall they posted, and once those are in place and he's starting to learn how to relax more in general start the desensitization again. Does that make sense? Our dog walker wants us to start correcting him (jabbing him at the hip joint, pressing him into a wall) for the barking but that seems like bad juju to me, and I haven't done it. Any suggestions on where we can consistently see dogs for desensitization but have good control over distance? We got frustrated with trying to do it on walks because it was so rare that you'd see a dog at a good distance for it (as opposed to dogs popping out of doors or around corners, which happens all the time and pretty much ruins the rest of the walk for any kind of training). Would working on obedience in general when he's outdoors/distracted help or be a waste of time?
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Mar 12, 2013 17:56
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boboto posted:So, my plan is to reboot the training, work on the mat work someone posted above and move on to the protocol for relaxation and deference from Dr. Overall they posted, and once those are in place and he's starting to learn how to relax more in general start the desensitization again. Does that make sense? Our dog walker wants us to start correcting him (jabbing him at the hip joint, pressing him into a wall) for the barking but that seems like bad juju to me, and I haven't done it. Any suggestions on where we can consistently see dogs for desensitization but have good control over distance? We got frustrated with trying to do it on walks because it was so rare that you'd see a dog at a good distance for it (as opposed to dogs popping out of doors or around corners, which happens all the time and pretty much ruins the rest of the walk for any kind of training). Would working on obedience in general when he's outdoors/distracted help or be a waste of time? You are definitely right not to start correcting him. It sounds like your dog is acting out of fear, putting on a display when another dog gets too close that is meant to scare the other dog away. My dog does the same thing. Punishing a dog for such behavior will just cause them to hide the signs that they are uncomfortable and eventually they will snap and could really do some damage when you think everything is okay. I would highly recommend finding a trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods and has experience with difficult behavior or, better yet, a veterinary behaviorist. They will be able to help you tailor a plan to fit your dog's behavior. The best way I know to have desensitization sessions where you can have control is to find a friend who is willing to lend you their dog or work with a private trainer. You can try going to an area where other people walk their dogs and standing waaaay back from the action, but like you said, this is unpredictable. Unfortunately, real life doesn't allow us to control what our dogs see all the time and still get them adequate exercise most of the time, so try to have your walks in a less trafficked area and employ any methods you need to avoid your dog going over threshold (cross the street, turn around, have your dog sit facing the other direction...anything that works). Working on obedience in general while outside will help things enormously. Work on your dog's recall to you (even from the end of the leash) and eye contact. You need to work on this for all levels of distraction (starting with the least distracting) in order to get to a point where your dog even has a chance of deferring to you over the biggest distraction of all: a dog he's terrified of. Make yourself so much more interesting/rewarding over the environment that your dog happily turns to you without even thinking about it. Then later, after you've done a lot of desensitization and counter-conditioning and your dog is ready for operant reactivity training, you can play games like Look at That and call your dog's attention back before he goes over threshold. There are a lot of techniques for dealing with reactive dogs and the absolute best way to learn them is to find a good trainer/behaviorist. While you are learning/looking for a trainer, remember that your dog gets better at what he practices, so you should manage things as best you can. Play music, keep him away from windows, go on walks at 6am, whatever. The more he practices his reactivity, the more bad habits will be burned into his brain and the harder it will be for you to replace those habits with good ones. Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 12, 2013 |
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Mar 12, 2013 19:05
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boboto posted:I have a wonderful but super reactive mutt named Rufus. When we adopted him, we were warned that he was a "butthole" with other dogs, but that this should just mean he wouldn't be a dog park dog but would be OK otherwise. Well, that ended up being a huge understatement, although I think we have also made his reactivity worse. I would not use that dog walker any more - for any reason. If you fell off the wagon on your training, you're going to see a lot of backsliding. This sort of rehabilitation is a 3 steps forward, 2 steps backwards daily progression, so if you don't keep up with it, you aren't going to see any progress. And frankly, a lot of the progress is so glacially slow that you can't see it anyways. I think your plan depends upon what the root cause is. What you describe sounds a lot like barrier frustration, but it's not clear whether he just wants to greet or if he actually wants to pick a fight. You say he growls - is this scary growling or is it just vocalization? Do you feel you could distinguish between the two? Based upon the advice you were given it may be that he truly is reactive. In either case, mat work can help, but it isn't the only piece of the puzzle. I'd work heavily on desensitization as well. As for spots, the dog park might be a good fit, but you don't want to actually be AT the dog park. For example, some of the dog parks near me are also next to recreation fields for soccer and baseball. Pick an off time during the day and head to the far end of one of those and see if your dog can handle it. If not, try something further away. Trauts posted:Whats yalls feelings on this matter? Rixatrix covered the feelings on e-collars well. As far as a marker for a deaf dog, I'd like to see what Topoisomerase has to say as well. I can say that we do occasionally get deaf dogs in the shelter where I volunteer. I've only worked one of them, and only a couple of times before she was adopted, but the protocol there was to use a visible hand signal in lieu of the clicker. In an effort to keep it distinct, we kept our marking hand at our hip at all times and popped a thumbs up to signal a click. edit: sorry - I'm super slow this morning.
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Mar 12, 2013 19:15
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MrFurious posted:Rixatrix covered the feelings on e-collars well. As far as a marker for a deaf dog, I'd like to see what Topoisomerase has to say as well. I can say that we do occasionally get deaf dogs in the shelter where I volunteer. I've only worked one of them, and only a couple of times before she was adopted, but the protocol there was to use a visible hand signal in lieu of the clicker. In an effort to keep it distinct, we kept our marking hand at our hip at all times and popped a thumbs up to signal a click. I use a thumbs up as well, but I feel like the timing on that sort of marker is never really right and you can't use it from a distance so it's not really a satisfactory alternative to a clicker for a lot of behaviors. Additionally that method tends to limit the signals you can use - sometimes I like to use both hands to tell my dog a thing. But that's probably not a huge concern when you're first starting out and teaching the dog to watch you and establishing some communication standard, or in a shelter situation. I guess this is a good time to say that I started Pippa in an adult life skills class, both to establish a relationship with trainers in this area to trade ideas back and forth and to get her some more structured opportunities for working around distractions in an environment where it is likely be productive. We went to our first class on Sunday and I think that it will be useful for both of us. I emailed the trainer who leads the class ahead of time and asked about bringing a deaf dog and she actually did some research and was ready to talk to me about marking behaviors and such too. Basically said she was putting feelers out there to other trainers for brainstorming too. Topoisomerase fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Mar 12, 2013 |
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Mar 12, 2013 19:57
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