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grover posted:Yeah, the massive secret underground uranium enrichment facilities are obviously just for posturing and peaceful nuclear power and not actually enriching weapons grade uranium. It's like they think someone would bomb it or something! quote:Maybe if Russia or France or someone would have offered to just enrich that uranium to commercial power grade for them, they wouldn't have to go to such lengths. Why would any country want a critical part of their infrastructure to depend on the whims of foreign powers? Sounds like something that could be exploited to exert pressure on them, with little to no recourse!
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Feb 22, 2013 15:31
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| # ? May 28, 2024 17:28 |
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If you spin counterclockwise three times shouting "Why hate Israel?" the LF'ers start to come out of the walls It's always fun to see the scale of the Iranian centrifuges against, say, American ones.  vs  
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Feb 22, 2013 15:33
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:It's like they think someone would bomb it or something! Iran at first agreed, but a few days later refused to give up their own enrichment program (which is WAY bigger than required for Iran's commercial and medical research requirements), which was kinda the whole point of the offer, and the deal fell apart.
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Feb 22, 2013 15:45
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It would seem foolish to go to the efforts of burying and obscuring your fuel enrichment facilities to protect them from air attack if that fuel is just going to get put in a big easily bomb-able power reactor complex. Iran also can't produce or maintain steam turbogenerators due to sanctions, and without those any nuclear power facility is a bit of a pipe dream.
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Feb 22, 2013 16:01
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Snowdens Secret posted:If you spin counterclockwise three times shouting "Why hate Israel?" the LF'ers start to come out of the walls Whoever is doing this, could you please stop?
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Feb 22, 2013 16:15
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grover posted:I wasn't being hyperbolic, I was being sarcastic. France and Russia called Iran's bluff in in 2009 and made a serious offer to enrich Iran's uranium for them in exchange for Iran ceasing and disassembling their uranium enrichment program. This would be win-win for all involved: Iran would get all the uranium they need for commercial nuclear power and medical research, the rest of the world would be happy, tensions would be reduced, and a lot of the sanctions on Iran would be dropped. Would be perfect! Well, perfect if the whole commercial power thing wasn't just a cover story for a nuclear weapons program. Yes, contracting out your uranium enrichment to foreign powers is the perfect way to prevent your infrastructure from relying on foreign powers.
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Feb 22, 2013 17:22
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Why would any country want a critical part of their infrastructure to depend on the whims of foreign powers? Sounds like something that could be exploited to exert pressure on them, with little to no recourse! Especially when you're Iran and have suffered from this in living memory. The Shah, the Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War are kinda important events to consider when looking at Irans behaviour today and why they are not exactly hot on the idea of making themselves dependent on foreign powers again.
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Feb 22, 2013 18:48
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hepatizon posted:Yes, contracting out your uranium enrichment to foreign powers is the perfect way to prevent your infrastructure from relying on foreign powers. Magni posted:Especially when you're Iran and have suffered from this in living memory. The Shah, the Revolution and the Iran-Iraq War are kinda important events to consider when looking at Irans behaviour today and why they are not exactly hot on the idea of making themselves dependent on foreign powers again. It's blatantly obvious Iran's entire modern goal is to produce nuclear weapons. Because Iran's quickest way to not be dependent would be to actually abandon nuclear weapons, and get the embargoes lifted. The 2009 deal would truly have been a win-win deal for EVERY nation involved. The only loss would have been Iran's nuclear weapons program. grover fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 19:01
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Hey Grover, it was cool that you left out the Iran-Brazil-Turkey fuel deal that dropped the absurd "simultaneous swap" that is a logistical nightmare. Of course the US and the rest of P5 agreed with this and kidding they passed more embargoes despite Iran saying they wouldn't refine uranium. So you can see why Iran said "pissoff" and kept refining. They're being held to a previously non-existent standards and they aren't even making any nuclear weapons according the the US and Israelis.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:02
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LP97S posted:Hey Grover, it was cool that you left out the Iran-Brazil-Turkey fuel deal that dropped the absurd "simultaneous swap" that is a logistical nightmare. Of course the US and the rest of P5 agreed with this and kidding they passed more embargoes despite Iran saying they wouldn't refine uranium. So you can see why Iran said "pissoff" and kept refining. They're being held to a previously non-existent standards and they aren't even making any nuclear weapons according the the US and Israelis. grover fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 19:08
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Not anymore than Lockheed does in delivering a plane that doesn't kill it's pilots. Iran signed the NPT, there's no credible evidence that they're perusing nuclear weapons, and the biggest critics of it is a rogue nuclear state with 400 nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver in an 11,000 km and range and like the other one has been known to attack people with little provocation.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:34
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LP97S posted:Not anymore than Lockheed does in delivering a plane that doesn't kill it's pilots. That's completely irrelevant and a horrible attempt at drawing a parallel. You should be embarrassed.
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Feb 22, 2013 19:53
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Godholio posted:That's completely irrelevant and a horrible attempt at drawing a parallel. You should be embarrassed. Not really, if they guy who's obsessed with claiming that he knows more than the US, Israeli, and countless other agencies about the motivations of Iran's nuclear program has a history of propping up any claim in the face of evidence and facts, it should be counted.
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Feb 22, 2013 20:00
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LP97S posted:there's no credible evidence that they're perusing nuclear weapons
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Feb 22, 2013 21:00
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yes, I'm sure all their work on exploding bridgewire detonators and symmetric metal implosions was for the famous domestic Iranian fireworks industry. But I guess researching all the precursor technologies for a nuclear bomb isn't proof they're working on a nuclear bomb. They could just be very curious. It could also mean they desperately want the ability/option to make a nuke but haven't yet decided if they actually want to make one.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:05
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mlmp08 posted:It could also mean they desperately want the ability/option to make a nuke but haven't yet decided if they actually want to make one. It could also mean OH GOD SHUT UP AND TAKE IT TO D&D JESUS CHRIST POST PLAAAAAAANNNNNNEEEEESSSSS!!!!      
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Feb 22, 2013 21:12
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Feb 22, 2013 21:17
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Dead Reckoning posted:Yes, I'm sure all their work on exploding bridgewire detonators and symmetric metal implosions was for the famous domestic Iranian fireworks industry. But I guess researching all the precursor technologies for a nuclear bomb isn't proof they're working on a nuclear bomb. They could just be very curious. Option to explore doesn't mean the actual exploration. Feel free to complain about that all you want but don't buy the bullshit "seconds from a bomb" I've heard nearly every week since the start of the last bullshit war. I'm concerned about this because another war would be disastrous, especially since this one would last generations. But gently caress it, taking this to D&D is a no go so the conversation will die here. 
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Feb 22, 2013 21:21
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There's already several bad threads for everyone to pretend that they have a deep understanding of theocratic government in. Iran nuke chat is not even tangentially related to the Cold War.
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Feb 22, 2013 21:24
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In an effort to re-rail the thread: Thuds give me a stiffy. If they don't have a similar effect on you, go back to the veganism thread. 
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Feb 22, 2013 23:49
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MrYenko posted:In an effort to re-rail the thread: Thuds give me a stiffy. So what did you fly in Vietnam? A MiG-17, -19, or -21?
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Feb 23, 2013 00:21
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The only thing better than SEAD planes are bigass angry missiles. The Talos was one of the oldest US Navy SAM systems but because it was such an early design it was also goddamn huge, carried a big gently caress-off warhead, and in general tended to make a mess out of anything it hit (including ships!). One of the upgrades to the missile allowed it the option to passively home in on radiation emitters like RADARs or radio antenna. This combined with the 100 mile range led to the idea of launching these big outdated SAMs at mobile RADAR sites which were otherwise difficult to explode. Cue mysterious radar van explosions in Vietnam. http://www.okieboat.com/Talos%20antiradiation%20shot.html One of the other fun things about the Talos was that if it lost the original signal it was sent after it could actually find other enticing signals to go after instead. Like any good cold war rocket you could even strap a nuclear warhead on it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgFIhomusc8 Warbadger fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 23, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 00:25
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Snowdens Secret posted:It's always fun to see the scale of the Iranian centrifuges against, say, American ones. Hah, apparently fighters aren't the only thing that is smaller in Iran.
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Feb 23, 2013 00:30
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Warbadger posted:One of the other fun things about the Talos was that if it lost the original signal it was sent after it could actually find other enticing signals to go after instead. This sounds like the beginning of one of those old stories about airplanes getting shot down by their own missiles. Content:  My notes say that this is a Lockheed SP-2E Neptune, not sure if I got those specifics correct but whatever, it's a Neptune and they're pretty rad. The most interesting thing about this one was that it still had the whole big list of what types of munitions it could carry inside the bomb bay. I tried to get a picture of that specifically but my hands were too shaky.
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Feb 23, 2013 00:53
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StandardVC10 posted:This sounds like the beginning of one of those old stories about airplanes getting shot down by their own missiles. During one of the tests for the long range version a missile missed an airborne target (no warhead, so no boom when it passed by it) and promptly decided it really didn't like some other ill-fated jammer they had running on the ground and hosed that up instead. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 23, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 00:55
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Did someone say Thuds and missiles?  Phantom and SA-2 meet. 
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Feb 23, 2013 01:58
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Imagine losing 1700+ planes 
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Feb 23, 2013 05:03
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Koesj posted:Imagine losing 1700+ planes Just 1700? Spring in 1943 for Russia! Altogether Germany and Russia both lost over 100,000 aircraft in WW2.
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Feb 23, 2013 05:18
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That is pure sex-on-wings.
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Feb 23, 2013 05:27
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gently caress Reagan, the F-20 Tigershark was one of the best things to come out of Northrop.
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Feb 23, 2013 06:31
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   Forget if I posted all of these before...from the USS Hornet. Two planes and a print shop.
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Feb 23, 2013 07:52
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Forums Terrorist posted:gently caress Reagan, the F-20 Tigershark was one of the best things to come out of Northrop. I love the Tigershark and I have no idea why it doesn't get more attention as a cool plane. It's my favorite plane to tool around in in Ace Combat.
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Feb 23, 2013 08:36
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I love the Tigershark and I have no idea why it doesn't get more attention as a cool plane. It's my favorite plane to tool around in in Ace Combat. Back in college we played a lot of http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3613/air-superiority, a wargame by an actual F-16 pilot. The F-20 worked out really well in game terms, so it was a favorite in US-USSR Cold War matchups. It's also dead sexy.
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Feb 23, 2013 08:57
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Snowdens Secret posted:It's always fun to see the scale of the Iranian centrifuges against, say, American ones. That's because everybody (Americans included) now think that centrifuges that long are nuts. EDIT: Americans got into some really long centrifuges back in the day, because of the higher efficiency of each enrichment stage. However, since centrifuges are AFAIK all vertical, that means higher and higher bottom bearing loads as a trade-off. This leads to higher maintenance, stricter monitoring, and more outages. Groda fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Feb 23, 2013 |
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Feb 23, 2013 12:06
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Groda posted:EDIT: Americans got into some really long centrifuges back in the day, because of the higher efficiency of each enrichment stage. However, since centrifuges are AFAIK all vertical, that means higher and higher bottom bearing loads as a trade-off. This leads to higher maintenance, stricter monitoring, and more outages. Surprisingly, you can read all about it online.
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Feb 23, 2013 14:25
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I love the Tigershark and I have no idea why it doesn't get more attention as a cool plane. It's my favorite plane to tool around in in Ace Combat. Because it was marketed primarily as an export aircraft for nations that were looking for a high performing lightweight fighter but who we wouldn't necessarily trust with exporting our top of the line fighter (i.e., the Viper) to. Basically the same thought process as the F-5, just with better performance. Some of the restrictions on exports were also due to the Carter Administration's policy of restricting exports of top tier U.S. equipment to NATO, Australia, and Japan (although there were many, many exceptions to this policy.) When Reagan took office, this policy was relaxed, which meant that frontline aircraft like the F-16 were being marketed and sold to allies outside of that narrow group under Carter. Additionally, because the F-20 was developed as part of a govt program (the FX FMS program) it meant that even though it had been developed on Northrop's dime Northrop couldn't unilaterally market it overseas; all marketing efforts had to go through the State Department, which drug its feet. Northrop still managed to gin up some foreign sales, but most of these were contingent on the aircraft being adopted in some form by the USAF, and when the final idea of having the ANG buy some was rejected in favor of additional F-16s, the program died.
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Feb 23, 2013 19:34
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With the dual cockpit, the A-4 looks like a cartoon caricature of a military jet. Adding another seat does strange things to some aircraft proportions.
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Feb 23, 2013 21:19
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grover posted:They don't have to be vertical, as the pull of gravity is inconsequential at the speed they're spinning, but turns out combining vertical orientation with asymmetrical heating creates convection currents that dramatically increases centrifuge efficiency. Why wouldn't a convection current be just as inconsequential as gravity at the RPM's they're operated at?
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Feb 24, 2013 03:18
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Groda posted:Why wouldn't a convection current be just as inconsequential as gravity at the RPM's they're operated at? 
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Feb 24, 2013 03:47
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| # ? May 28, 2024 17:28 |
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I just found this thread yesterday, and I'm still back on page 16. However, I found some images on my PC from a trip to the Stafford Air and Space museum a few years back that are pertinent. Kind of an interesting find for being in podunk, western Oklahoma. The lighting wasn't great, and it was an older digital camera, but here are some of the decent images: Mig-21   Titan booster. They have some mockups of a Gemini Capsule and a warhead, but they aren't the real deal.  And some Cosmonaut gear(There's more, but the pictures are poo poo):  The guy that heads the museum it is General Stafford, former Apollo Astronaut and AF test pilot. He commanded the Apollo Soyuz linkup mission, and him and his Commie buddy from it exchange knick-nacks. If you're ever driving along I-40 in Western OK, stop in Weatherford and spend the $5 to go check it out. It's a neat little place.
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Feb 24, 2013 18:24
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