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Adraeus posted:You guys are weird. See you're missing the point that I don't give a poo poo who's working on it, and even if Chris Avellone was the game's director and lead writer I'd be skeptical. It's a sequel to a 13 year old game without the original license. I'll believe it's good when I play it and it's good. Like 500+ people gave Monte Cook's Numenera KS 200+ dollars. I'm staying neutral until I see a finished product, they're the ones jumping to a conclusion.
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Feb 25, 2013 12:20
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Adraeus posted:You guys are weird. Well, that's the setting in which it is based, but that's not exactly the same thing. I expect there were a number of literary influences on Torment, and that very few of these were in the setting. And a lot of people seem to be saying it's the literary value of Torment that was what they dug about it or something. Me, I really liked the setting weirdness so I'm cool with two of its designers being on board with this. PS the 'canon' answer to that nature of man thing was totally 'regret' I reckon, because I'm pretty sure that was one of my high wisdom/high intelligence answers. If the stats unlock it, it's the truth.  Also, was I the only one who used to call the PI 'Practical Pig'?
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Feb 25, 2013 13:08
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Chairchucker posted:PS the 'canon' answer to that nature of man thing was totally 'regret' I reckon, because I'm pretty sure that was one of my high wisdom/high intelligence answers. If the stats unlock it, it's the truth. I prefer: The Nameless One posted:If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I've seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me. Which really reminds me how much I want a Chris Avellone stretch goal. Even if the others know the setting, his writing made Torment what it was. That said, I don't mind not going back to Planescape - it was certainly a great setting to explore, but I'm much more interested in having a new, equally unique world. In fact, I think if we did go to Sigil again, the fact we're familiar with it would make it lose a lot of what appealed about it in the first place now that it's less of a mystery. Numenera certainly looks like it could be weird enough and nobody's particularly familiar with it so that's actually one of the aspects of the game I'm least worried about.
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Feb 25, 2013 13:34
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We'd like to have gotten Chris involved too but sadly there's only one of him to go around. It really is a practical matter more than the preferences of either inXile or MCA.Drifter posted:What I don't really understand - I accept my credibility loss here, I suppose - is the use of one tabletop rule set over another as it translates into a game. I totally understand the rule sets in honest to god P&P, because you have to do all that poo poo by hand, but it's all automated and behind the scenes in a video game, right? I agree that this is an interesting question, and something we've been digging into with Numenera deeply, before and after settling on it. The setting is in many ways the primary draw, because it is perfectly suited to the theme of legacy this will run throughout Torment. The system...is not perfect for a cRPG in every way. If anyone's familiar with it, you'll probably know the focus of the system of simplicity as to enable quick resolution and GM agency. That is perfect for a p&p, but not so much for a cRPG. Luckily, we're jumping on board of Numenera really early, and will work with Monte closely, and we'll look to adapt the basic ideas of the rule system into something that is more well-suited for a cRPG. We're not licensing and working within tight restrictions, we're licensing and working closely with the creators. Drifter posted:inExile basically got a pre-order free pass from me for W2, for various reasons, but they haven't actually done anything noteworthy to earn another. Yip. Very understandable. Skepticism is warranted. Honestly, we'd like to delay the Kickstarter to after Wasteland 2 is out and settled and we know what kind of reception it's got, we'd like to do that, but from our perspective it's not all that feasible. We've got writers, Kevin Saunders, concept artists, people working at inXile know who don't work on Wasteland 2 (at least, not much) and whose work can't be paid out of WL2's budget because all of WL2's budget goes to WL2 (naturally). We're not big enough to self-fund the pre-production of this game, but we don't want to fire all these people and then just hope they're still there when we roll into the new production. Not to mention we'd then create another pre-production period after Wasteland 2 where our programmers would have nothing to do. Starting pre-production now and rolling over when WL2 is out, patched and modkitted up creates the most natural workflow, and will prevent unnecessary delays and firings. That's our perspective, which I hope you can understand. Of course, developer-end perspective is not the same as consumer-end, and you have every reason to be skeptical. As long as you get why we're doing it, I guess. PS: Oh also, hi guys. My name's Thomas Beekers, line producer at inXile. Hi! Brother None fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 17:57
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Man, Chris Avellone is a good writer but he's far from the only good writer, and his involvement or lack of it (or even blessing or lack of it) should not make or break a project. Plenty of games have turned out fine even without Chris Avellone working on them, strange but true.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:05
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https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/305859371286528001 Chris really wants you to believe in this.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:06
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Brother None posted:cool Hey, brotha. Good to have you here, man. What's a line producer accountable for? I've not heard that title before (I don't really pay attention to titles). Would you guys consider a "Live the Dream" type thing where backers of Wasteland 2 get some X dollar/percent off whatever pledge tier they back for Torment? They believed in us before anyone in their right minds would have.  Haha, I suppose if the beta slice we get of Wasteland 2 is really good I'd experience less cognitive dissonance in putting my support behind the Torment game. I like to support things, and people, but gently caress, pre-ordering anything is a fuckin' dangerous way to use money these days. Everything is marketing, even from honest people, and you never know who's honest until after the fact. I understand the "Chris or bust" mentality some people are feeling, when he's a proven agent and his results and works can be seen in multiple projects. I guess a thing that could help me feel better would be small script samples, to see how the game world can be interacted with and the quality of dialog and response. Drifter fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 18:16
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I've been thinking about the theme for Torment 2 "What is a man's life worth?" Obviously, one of the most popular examples of a work that posed and explored that question is It's a Wonderful Life. George believes that his life is worthless [or at least worth less than the amount of his life insurance] and nearly takes Mr. Potters advice that he's worth more dead than alive. Then through the course of the movie he realizes that his life has touched a great many people and its those people who have made his life worthwhile. It's a feel-good, life-affirming story. But I think there's another story there that's at least as interesting: Mr. Potters story. What would a movie about him be like? Suppose he's an old man near the end of his life. He looks back and thinks "I've lived a good life. I've made a lot of money and I've turned this little business of mine into a powerful force. I've never wanted for anything in years and I live a life of luxury. Where others failed, I succeeded." But then Clarence appears and shows him the fruits of his life: the people he's hurt, the families he's destroyed, the lovers he's spurned or cheated on, the rubble he's left in his wake because of his greed. For all his material wealth, he has no friends, his family wants nothing to do with him. And when he finally dies, his name will live on only as a curse. Now that I really think about it, of course, that's basically the story of A Christmas Carol. BUT in this case there would be no chance for redemption. Potter is too old for that, too frail. He had his chance, but now it's too late. That's the kind of thing I'd like to see Torment 2 explore. Rather than giving the option right at the very end to be good or evil [as some games made by developers who I will not mention tend to do], the game takes what you've done and shows you the impact that you've had. Did you save the child from drowning? He grew up to become a doctor who helped save hundreds of people. Did you shoot that bandit that tried to surrender? He had a wife and two kids who starved waiting for him to come home. Obviously, that's incredibly ambitious, but I think a Torment sequel has to be incredibly ambitious. Just my own little thoughts on the matter. Great Rumbler fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 18:56
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Great Rumbler posted:cool Like the Witcher crossed with Fallout 2's ending.  But more reflective writing.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:05
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Great Rumbler posted:That's the kind of thing I'd like to see Torment 2 explore. Rather than giving the option right at the very end to be good or evil [as some games made by developers who I will not mention tend to do], the game takes what you've done and shows you the impact that you've had. Did you save the child from drowning? He grew up to become a doctor who helped save hundreds of people. Did you shoot that bandit that tried to surrender? He had a wife and two kids who starved waiting for him to come home. Obviously, that's incredibly ambitious, but I think a Torment sequel has to be incredibly ambitious. This is actually not too far of from what we're looking to do, though y'know, I want to be wary of promising too much since things like scope aren't set yet. But we'll talk a lot more about this in the coming time, I think the core team has some pretty cool ideas in this direction though. Kevin Saunders (project director) talked a bit about this stuff here. These tides (not a judgement of good and evil) are checked throughout the game, your decisions changing the environment and the tides you are tied to. There will definitely be no color selection minigame or anything at the end. Drifter posted:What's a line producer accountable for? I've not heard that title before (I don't really pay attention to titles). I don't think it's a common title in video gaming, it comes from the film industry where the line producer is the guy "on the line" on day-to-day grind. Think of it as an assistant producer, I basically do anything that needs doing, with a focus on Kickstarter and community-end stuff. Drifter posted:Would you guys consider a "Live the Dream" type thing where backers of Wasteland 2 get some X dollar/percent off whatever pledge tier they back for Torment? They believed in us before anyone in their right minds would have. Huh. That's actually a pretty good idea. I'm going to look into it, though to be honest I don't think Kickstarter infrastructure allows for it. Drifter posted:Haha, I suppose if the beta slice we get of Wasteland 2 is really good I'd experience less cognitive dissonance in putting my support behind the Torment game. I gotta be honest and say I'm not even sure we can delay the Kickstarter that far. I can't say much definite on that though. Drifter posted:I like to support things, and people, but gently caress, pre-ordering anything is a fuckin' dangerous way to use money these days. Everything is marketing, even from honest people, and you never know who's honest until after the fact. Agreed. I've worked as a game reviewer the past few years (for GameBanshee) before joining inXile, so I got some games free, but I still bought most games I played. But preordered? I haven't preordered a game in ages. I think...Far Cry 2 was the last one? And boy did I regret that. Not that the game doesn't have its strengths, but it was not worth preordering, for me. But I dunno. I kind of treat Kickstarter a little different, and have backed a bunch of project myself. But I certainly can't blame anyone who is in "wait and see" mode now, and wants to see some products before backing more. It all depends on trust, for Kickstarter, way more than typical "marketing". We just have to hope our team and pitch can convince you guys to get interested in backing it. But we understand it's less than ideal. Drifter posted:I guess a thing that could help me feel better would be small script samples, to see how the game world can be interacted with and the quality of dialog and response. Yip. We'll definitely focus on ideas and writing when offering our pitch. Brother None fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 19:11
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If they send George Zeits over to work on it after his work on Project Eternity, that'd increase my interest considerably. Mask of the Betrayer is the most Planescape-like RPG since Torment. And he was the main lead on that.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:16
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Great Rumbler posted:I've been thinking about the theme for Torment 2 "What is a man's life worth?" Obviously, one of the most popular examples of a work that posed and explored that question is It's a Wonderful Life. George believes that his wife is worthless [or at least worth less than the amount of his life insurance] I could not help smiling, Great Rumbler. Thank you. On topic, I have mixed feelings for this game. They need to elaborate on the theme and mechanics.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:24
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Brother None, I assume that you're planning to get this underway reasonably soon you'll be reusing the W2 engine? If that's the case, does that mean that you're intending to go turn based with this too? Or is the plan real time with pause, like Planescape? I don't really have a horse in the race either way, they both have advantages, I'm just kinda fishing for information.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:25
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CottonWolf posted:Brother None, I assume that you're planning to get this underway reasonably soon you'll be reusing the W2 engine? If that's the case, does that mean that you're intending to go turn based with this too? Or is the plan real time with pause, like Planescape? We're using Unity again, yes. And adapt a lot of the Obsidian tools and other things we made for the engine. That said, it's a different game and it has different goals. We'll look to do things different graphically (hopefully do 2D, but that depends on funding). As for combat, well, this is gonna sound a little odd, but we basically have a list of goals for a combat system, when it comes to character customization and choice, density of encounters (combat will be rare but interesting), etc., and we've been designing different possible systems of it, RTwP and TB and possibly a third. We probably won't pick one prior to the Kickstarter, since we have a nice long preorder period to decide, so we can instead take our time to ask our backers what they prefer and move on from there, post-funding.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:40
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According to Kevin Saunders the plan is for RTwP but they're open to going turn-based instead. It's one of the things the backers will have input on.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:42
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I got to thinking more about the scenario I threw out without out much thought in my earlier post, about the bandit with the wife and two kids. Some interesting ideas came to me and I just figured I'd pass them along. If you kill the bandit, his wife and children starve waiting for him to return. Now what happens if you spare him? That could go in several different ways. Perhaps sparing him alters the universe from where it would go if you killed him. Instead, you learn that he's a total jerk and uses his new-found life to plot revenge against you. He never had a wife and two kids in the universe where you spared him. Either he comes back to haunt you later or he continues his campaign of violence, spurred on by the humiliation of losing to you. Or, maybe the rest of his clan finds out that he surrendered rather than fighting to the death. They find him later and kill him, thus dooming his family. No matter your choice at the end, you doom his family to die by deciding to invade that bandit camp. Some weight could even be added to that by having the family show up in an earlier part of the game. They're polar opposites of the bandit. The wife is a loving mother and she only wants to do right be her children and make sure that they grow up to the be good people. You don't know at the time that they're the bandit's family, but you realize it later after its too late to do anything. But suppose you came across some hint that was later confirmed at you met the bandits. Rather than waiting to find out the fate of the family later, you go straight to them after dealing with the bandit. You can save them, for a price. Caring for three people is expensive, especially when the wife has to care for the children and the children are too young to make a living for themselves. It's going to cost a LOT of money. Do you tell them what happened to their father? Do you tell them your role in his fate? Do you lie and tell them something that won't hurt as much? What you choose to do and what you choose to tell them have an affect on their reaction and how their story eventually ends. If you tell them the truth, they resent you despite your aid. If you lie to them, they refuse your aid and decide to wait until the bandit comes home. If you bend the truth a little bit, they accept your help. Is it worth the cost to help them? No one will even know whether you do or don't, but you'll always know that you could have helped them but didn't. What other uses could that money have been put to? Who else could you have saved with it? How much more powerful could that money have made you? Is it worth that trade off if you don't even get anything in return? How will choosing to help them, or choosing to lie to them, impact the rest of the game? Ha, you could just about right a whole story just around this one minor scenario, but it does raise a lot of really interesting questions if you really want to dig deep into the impact of even the most insignificant choices. Most games really don't do that at all, and it's disappointing. I'm rambling, aren't I? Well, I get excited about things sometimes and tend to ramble about them. Sorry!
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Feb 25, 2013 19:49
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Brother None posted:We're using Unity again, yes. And adapt a lot of the Obsidian tools and other things we made for the engine. That said, it's a different game and it has different goals. We'll look to do things different graphically (hopefully do 2D, but that depends on funding). As for combat, well, this is gonna sound a little odd, but we basically have a list of goals for a combat system, when it comes to character customization and choice, density of encounters (combat will be rare but interesting), etc., and we've been designing different possible systems of it, RTwP and TB and possibly a third. We probably won't pick one prior to the Kickstarter, since we have a nice long preorder period to decide, so we can instead take our time to ask our backers what they prefer and move on from there, post-funding. Huh. That's not the answer I was expecting. Tailoring the system to what works for the game when you've got more nailed down. I guess that makes sense as a strategy. Thanks.
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Feb 25, 2013 19:58
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The naysaying kind of makes sense as I read it, but holy poo poo a sequel to Torment. If it wasn't for Wasteland 2 already being made by these guys, everybody here would be having a fit at all the incredible info coming out, lack of Avellone being the obvious exception, and since I've liked everything that I have already seen from Wasteland 2 so far, colour me excited like a kid on Christmas. On one hand, it's entirely possible that Wasteland 2 will be bad and the new Torment won't even be a good love letter to the old one, on the other hand the next few years of PC gaming is shaping up to be everything I have ever wanted and more and this has the potential to be the diabetes-inducing icing on the cake.
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Feb 25, 2013 20:13
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Paper_Masochist posted:The naysaying kind of makes sense as I read it, but holy poo poo a sequel to Torment. If it wasn't for Wasteland 2 already being made by these guys, everybody here would be having a fit at all the incredible info coming out, lack of Avellone being the obvious exception, and since I've liked everything that I have already seen from Wasteland 2 so far, colour me excited like a kid on Christmas. I get you, brosef. I do want to say that I'm not naysaying; I am being vocally cautious, though. A fuzzy line, I'll admit. I am openly engaged with the idea and have a healthy curiosity to this, though. I really think people's expectations will be a lot higher when it comes to the Torment pitch. I think Nostalgia will draw a lot of people, but not as many, because of Obsidian having Eternity with all of its potentially overlapping expectations as far as story and interactivity and what have you. P:Eternity is basically a spiritual relative to Torment 1, as it was constantly repeated in the gaming tabloids prior and during their Kickstarter. I think the Torment pitch is really going to have to showcase ability of the developers currently and Fargo won't really have his whole "gently caress tha I am really interested in seeing what different gameplay and story mechanics they will be bringing into the Torment 2 project.
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Feb 25, 2013 20:59
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Drifter posted:I think Nostalgia will draw a lot of people, but not as many, because of Obsidian having Eternity with all of its potentially overlapping expectations as far as story and interactivity and what have you.
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Feb 25, 2013 21:07
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Torment 2 does need a very strong, very focused pitch, I agree. It can't just be "Hey, we're doing a sequel to Torment 2, it's going to be an RPG and have cool characters, please give us money." It's going to need details and those details need to be interesting and compelling. It also needs to focus on the people involved, what they bring to the table and how they plan on making this a worthy to successor to what most people consider one of the greatest RPGs and greatest videogame stories ever. Wasteland 2 didn't really have that kind of pressure, I think, but it's definitely going to be there with Torment 2. Make us care! Make us want this so bad that we're willing to throw our money at you nearly two years in advance! Make us feel like this one's going to be a real winner! Wow us, in other words.
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Feb 25, 2013 21:09
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I definitely don't think a Torment kickstarter will triple the goal like W2, but hopefully that difference can be made up with profit off of W2.
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Feb 25, 2013 21:09
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Tunahead posted:I think what this thread needs is an argument. If we're going to try to discuss the two questions philosophically, the biggest thing is that "What is one life worth?" is easily conceived of as a question of ethics (signaled by the word "worth"), of right and wrong and determining the correct courses of action. Which is certainly a fine foundation for a story, and this game's story doesn't have to revolve around ethics, but ethics has been the primary philosophical question pinning down a huge number of RPGs. "What can change the nature of a man?" is a question that lends itself to ontology (signaled by the word "nature"), and discussions of causation, of what it is like to be something and to exist. That is exciting territory for any game, and certainly differentiated P:T from, say, Baldur's Gate. I'm actually loathe to try to speculate and pass judgment on an entire multi-hour game based on one little element (I don't know why this is so incredibly common for games as opposed to movies, you see the same thing in the Bioshock Infinite thread), but if I were, I can see someone making the case for one question being more interesting as a philosophical foundation than the other.
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Feb 25, 2013 21:26
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Great Rumbler posted:Torment 2 does need a very strong, very focused pitch, I agree. It can't just be "Hey, we're doing a sequel to Torment 2, it's going to be an RPG and have cool characters, please give us money." It's going to need details and those details need to be interesting and compelling. It also needs to focus on the people involved, what they bring to the table and how they plan on making this a worthy to successor to what most people consider one of the greatest RPGs and greatest videogame stories ever. Wasteland 2 didn't really have that kind of pressure, I think, but it's definitely going to be there with Torment 2. That's the plan! We've got way more run-up time to this than Wasteland 2 or Eternity had, and plan to use it. Expect a more informative, detailed pitch. Fintilgin posted:I definitely don't think a Torment kickstarter will triple the goal like W2, but hopefully that difference can be made up with profit off of W2. Yip. It doesn't need to be the hit WL2 was. I mean, it wouldn't hurt if it was, but we'll be fine if it's not, we've got a good system set up of risk management and building out or reducing design scope as needed by the budget.
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Feb 25, 2013 21:35
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Brother None posted:That's the plan! We've got way more run-up time to this than Wasteland 2 or Eternity had, and plan to use it. Expect a more informative, detailed pitch. That's what I like to hear. I'm not saying the W2 pitch was bad or vague, but it's strength was more in reviving a genre that most people thought was practically dead and buried. So, the excitement was less about the game and more about the genre, I think. Same with Eternity, though Eternity had the name-recognition from being developed by Obsidian. Built in fanbase and all that. The Torment pitch has to struggle against a genre that is already being revived by several high-profile titles, the fact that it's the second inXile pitch [coming before the release of their first game], and trying to live up to the expectations of what people think a Torment sequel should be. The latter is probably the most important, as getting people to believe that a Torment sequel can work [and that inXile are the people to do it] is going to be absolutely vital to getting them to crack open their wallets. And it's good to hear that you won't necessarily need as much as W2 to make this happen. Of course, I would very much like to see you guys put up crazy numbers on it anyway!
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Feb 25, 2013 21:53
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Paper_Masochist posted:On one hand, it's entirely possible that Wasteland 2 will be bad (Live the gimmick!) This thread is in some ways delightfully reminiscent of the early Wasteland 2 thread, when there was excitement but there were also lots of people like "oh great, the guys who remade Choplifter are making a huge CRPG?" ... fast-forward about a year, and everything is totally falling into place. Brian Fargo is staking his reputation as "savior of old-school CRPGs" on these two projects now, so he has every reason to want to make them both amazing. Now, when he then tries to revive the Magic Candle, Questron, and Ishar franchises, we can worry.
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Feb 26, 2013 00:24
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Quarex posted:Now, when he then tries to revive the Magic Candle, Questron, and Ishar franchises, we can worry. J.R.R. Trollkin is disappointed in your lack of fervor.
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Feb 26, 2013 01:33
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Adraeus posted:You guys are weird. Planescape was really neat and awesome fluff wise, but rules wise it was pretty much horseshit that everyone horseruled out and just used the cool scenarios (from my experience). Which is par for the course for ol' Monty as I stated earlier.
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Feb 26, 2013 01:44
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FRINGE posted:No way I would totally play Questron or Phantasie. Well, Phantasie V is apparently happening down the line a bit somehow or another at the least: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8786 I have no reason to be wary on the staff from for Torment: Numenera here---everybody seems duly excited and the foundations are there, and freshly active to boot, to seemingly follow through on the lot of it. A well run KS that doesn't aim for some sort of insane notion given that they literally know better in all respects should seal the deal nicely.
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Feb 26, 2013 01:46
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Quarex posted:No. Dude, there's a significant difference between staking your reputation on one game and moving on to "staking your reputation on now a second game before the first one you originally staked you reputation on is even released." C'mon. Cut your sycophancy. It's weird, sure. Doesn't mean it's wrong or bad, but it's a challenging thing for many people to accept. We just have to wait and see what the presentation will bring. I'm looking forward to their take.
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Feb 26, 2013 01:51
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Brother None posted:That's the plan! We've got way more run-up time to this than Wasteland 2 or Eternity had, and plan to use it. Expect a more informative, detailed pitch.
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Feb 26, 2013 02:18
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Well, Phantasie V is apparently happening down the line  I never even knew there was a IV. I am a failure. edit: Oh. Japan only I'm off the hook. FRINGE fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 02:30
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Drifter posted:Dude, there's a significant difference between staking your reputation on one game and moving on to "staking your reputation on now a second game before the first one you originally staked you reputation on is even released." While there is, you have to admit that there are few other options if they want to make a Torment cRPG without having to release their writers and concept artists etc. Their only options are to find a publisher, do another Kickstarter, or be super-shady and fund the preproduction of Torment from the Wasteland 2 funds. I don't see of a way to do this game without one of those three options. For various reasons, Infinity-Engine-style cRPGs haven't been an option with publishers, though you could obviously make an argument based upon the Kickstarter funding of Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity that a publisher would take a risk on them again. Ultimately what I will want to know before pledging are: 1) Will a game come out of this? 2) Will the game that comes out of this be fun? 3) Will the game that comes out of this have the Torment feel. For 1) I am pretty easy, probably way easier than you, I saw the recent Wasteland 2 video, that's enough for me. For 2), I'd have to see more gameplay video of Wasteland 2. For 3) I'd want to see the writers talking about P:T, what made it great for them, etc. as well as I'd like to see an absolute ton of artwork of Numenera. I know there's already some for the actual Numenera tabletop RPG, but I'd just want to have a lot more to see if it captures the interesting feel of the Planescape setting.
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Feb 26, 2013 03:50
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I get you and agree with much of what you say. I think we're essentially on the same page. I was just pointing out how odd Quarex's  statement was.I'm not so sure that for these smaller games' studios they are better off going to a publisher, to be honest. I could imagine that between the contracts and IP rights and loan / expenditure repayments and profit sharing it would all be much more restrictive and strictly enforceable. I would think the freedoms afforded going into a very loose  partnership with the Kickstarter backers are so laughably unconstrained that you wouldn't know what to do with yourself for a few days. Plus, it's your property after that, with all that affords.And when you think about it, your option 2 is getting pretty close to a demo of a game. I make a lot of my videogame decisions coming from Giantbomb's 30-60 minute quicklooks. A thirty minute Let's Play of the middle of a game really helps get a feel for it. Your option three is what I'm looking forward to critically judging.  As I said, I'm really interested in seeing what they will bring to the table.
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Feb 26, 2013 04:17
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There should be a Kickstarter goal for changing the title back to just "Torment" from the awkward, oddly maddening, uber-geeky, and even unscientific "Torment: Tides of Numenera". How to name a reboot is a fairly standard process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reboot_(fiction) Despite the fact that the people involved are Planescape experts, if I were to consider backing this project, I'd want inXile to show me that they're really creating a successor to Planescape: Torment and not simply a standalone expansion for "Monte Cook's Numenera". The choice of setting and the decision to add this particular subtitle haven't left me with a great impression. Adraeus fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 05:09
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Brother None posted:Honestly, we'd like to delay the Kickstarter to after Wasteland 2 is out and settled and we know what kind of reception it's got, we'd like to do that, but from our perspective it's not all that feasible. We've got writers, Kevin Saunders, concept artists, people working at inXile know who don't work on Wasteland 2 (at least, not much) and whose work can't be paid out of WL2's budget because all of WL2's budget goes to WL2 (naturally). We're not big enough to self-fund the pre-production of this game, but we don't want to fire all these people and then just hope they're still there when we roll into the new production. Not to mention we'd then create another pre-production period after Wasteland 2 where our programmers would have nothing to do. Starting pre-production now and rolling over when WL2 is out, patched and modkitted up creates the most natural workflow, and will prevent unnecessary delays and firings. drat, so it's pretty much a done deal that the Kickstarter will be long before WL2's release? I know you guys have more experience with this (I'm nowhere close to launching if I even do), but I think you're gonna get burned by going ahead long before WL2's done. I understand the reasons you posted, it makes perfect sense that you need to keep your folks working. But I really hope you've got plans for what happens if you barely make goal or don't even make it. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I think too many fans already have a nice chunk of change invested into kickstarter projects and will be hesitant about going back in with a company that hasn't even released their already cleared kickstarter. One ray of hops is that even if you barely make the goal, you'll still have the profits from WL2's release (which should be a decent chunk of change). So you won't be completely limited by what you can get from kickstarter.
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Feb 26, 2013 06:19
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Yeah, I'm in for over $100 for Wasteland 2 but I'd be very hesitant to pledge a similar amount without seeing a return on my first investment. As much as I like what you guys are doing that's a bit of a tall order.
Pyradox fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 06:37
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Pyradox posted:Yeah, I'm in for over $100 for Wasteland 2 but I'd be very hesitant to pledge a similar amount without seeing a return on my first investment. As much as I like what you guys are doing that's a bit of a tall order. Alkanos posted:drat, so it's pretty much a done deal that the Kickstarter will be long before WL2's release? Alkanos posted:I know you guys have more experience with this (I'm nowhere close to launching if I even do), but I think you're gonna get burned by going ahead long before WL2's done. I understand the reasons you posted, it makes perfect sense that you need to keep your folks working. But I really hope you've got plans for what happens if you barely make goal or don't even make it. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I think too many fans already have a nice chunk of change invested into kickstarter projects and will be hesitant about going back in with a company that hasn't even released their already cleared kickstarter. Anyway, that slight tangent aside, do realize that regardless of anything, right now the main body of inXile is working on Wasteland 2, and that game is fully budgeted, and we are not touching or messing with that budget in the slightest, so if this pitch fails nothing changes there. No matter what happens with Torment, WL2 is moving forward, and for most of this year that's the main thing for most employees. So the company can handle it if Torment falls through, it just means we can't keep our writing and artist team together and that creates a bad transition period between WL2 and the next project and a likely loss of talent. It's still a risk to take, especially in throwing our name and goodwill we've built up out there, but it's a risk we do need to take to enable us to set up a really good production flow to allow us to make good games. It's looking ahead, what happens after WL2. Not fun for consumers, perhaps, but pretty important for developers to always keep in mind. Brother None fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 06:55
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Adraeus posted:There should be a Kickstarter goal for changing the title back to just "Torment" from the awkward, oddly maddening, uber-geeky, and even unscientific "Torment: Tides of Numenera". So, you think they should name it Numenera: Torment or something along those lines? I'm not really sure what your complaint here is.
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Feb 26, 2013 07:04
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Great Rumbler posted:So, you think they should name it Numenera: Torment or something along those lines? I'm not really sure what your complaint here is. No, I think they should get rid of the subtitle. It's too late to complain about the name of the setting, so I won't.
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Feb 26, 2013 07:28
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