Koramei posted:I think there would be a bit of an outcry if they used the Shogun 2 campaign map units in the Rome 2 campaign, so I don't think you have to worry there. "It isn't a Yari Samurai, it is a Celt. See? different hat...."
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Feb 25, 2013 16:13
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Jerusalem posted:The computer now just masses all of its units into a giant ball and sends them charging directly at the opposite army, the General constantly blasting his horn the entire way You know, if the general is particularly poo poo and it's a tribe or something, this wouldn't even be terrible behaviour. It'd be really bad if it happened over and over again, ofcourse, but I can see it work.
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Feb 25, 2013 16:23
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Orange Devil posted:You know, if the general is particularly poo poo and it's a tribe or something, this wouldn't even be terrible behaviour. It'd be really bad if it happened over and over again, ofcourse, but I can see it work. If the AI did it every once in a while it could be quite interesting, I can totally see a human players carefully arranged army being smashed if the AI just bumrushes them.
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Feb 25, 2013 16:28
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A good AI would be cool, certainly. What I want most is them to find voice actors that aren't total poo poo. That'd be nice.
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Feb 25, 2013 17:25
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Doctor Reynolds posted:A good AI would be cool, certainly. What I want most is them to find voice actors that aren't total poo poo. That'd be nice. If I had to choose between voice actors and gameplay, I'd choose gameplay.
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Feb 25, 2013 17:30
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Which is why I didn't say I only wanted that! It's just something that's always made me laugh/cringe.
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Feb 25, 2013 17:32
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Doctor Reynolds posted:A good AI would be cool, certainly. What I want most is them to find voice actors that aren't total poo poo. That'd be nice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJPce-e_zU What are you talking about. Actually though I quite like the voice acting in all the games. How comical it can sometimes be doesn't bother me nearly as much as the over the top gruffness of most games. Them not speaking the language correctly in Shogun 2 is my only problem with it. After Medieval 2 especially it gets pretty reasonable? edit: I even liked the greek announcer  Koramei fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 17:42
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Koramei posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJPce-e_zU I was actually disappointed that the general speeches in S2 weren't in English. It was entertaining as gently caress in Rome that all of the generals sounded like they were starring in Gladiator. "UNITS! AWAIT MY ORDERS!" While in S2 the generals just kind of drone on. Some of the units were pretty fun though. "ONNA BUSHI!" "Tono! Sessha no meirei wa?"
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Feb 25, 2013 18:08
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I've never got in a position to fight a battle with Onna Bushi, it's very disapointing.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:23
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I've never got in a position to fight a battle with Onna Bushi, it's very disapointing. If you want to give Radious' unit pack a try it lets you recruit them. It's a little overpowered, but I hadn't used them either before that. I think they have completely unique voice lines from the warrior nuns and such; funny that they have such a minor role in the base game.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:29
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I've never got in a position to fight a battle with Onna Bushi, it's very disapointing. Darthmod spawns Onna Bushi as garrison units for Castles as well as Citadels, so you actually have a chance of using them and getting that achievement. They're pretty great defending walls.
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Feb 25, 2013 18:37
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Pretty sure Onna Bushis spawn at either tier 3 or 4 in vanilla. I've used them before when I was nowhere near Epic Architecture.
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Feb 25, 2013 20:41
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This doesn't really bear any relevance to TotalWar other than I found it on the TotalWar Reddit but I thought it was really interesting and very well done so maybe think of this next time you see your little men fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc
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Feb 25, 2013 20:46
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Tomn posted:Isn't AI considered to be probably the single hardest thing to make properly in computer programming? It's hard as balls, i know that, which is why i made a joke about simply copy pasting not terrible human MP behaviour. It would be better than the "march forwards in a line and see how it goes" or "just stand still, no one move!" that describes most of the AI's moves.
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Feb 26, 2013 05:22
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Mans posted:It's hard as balls, i know that, which is why i made a joke about simply copy pasting not terrible human MP behaviour. unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. I loved switching from boosted garrisons to regular garrisons in Darth depending on whether I was defending or attacking.
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Feb 26, 2013 05:30
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I really hope the music for Rome 2 is just as good as Rome's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC-uATAqSo8
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Feb 26, 2013 05:57
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achillesforever6 posted:I really hope the music for Rome 2 is just as good as Rome's There was a snippet of it in a snapshot or something a while back and ... I'm really not hopeful. The composer they've got is better technically, but it seems like he can't do anything that isn't orchestral. It worked well for Empire and Napoleon, it won't for any other periods. The music in Rome and Shogun 2 may not be perfectly composed but it was extremely characterful and distinct, and I'm pretty sure Rome 2 is going to lack that. Hopefully there'll be a lot of stuff drawn from the original soundtrack though, like the motif at the end of the live action trailer was. I do wish they'd gotten Jeff Van Dyck back, I wonder why they didn't. He sort of goes hand in hand with Total War games. Koramei fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 06:09
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achillesforever6 posted:I really hope the music for Rome 2 is just as good as Rome's I just love that Rome's pre-battle music was straight up called "Time 2 Kill".
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Feb 26, 2013 06:10
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concerned mom posted:This doesn't really bear any relevance to TotalWar other than I found it on the TotalWar Reddit but I thought it was really interesting and very well done so maybe think of this next time you see your little men fighting. That was really cool, thanks for sharing!
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Feb 26, 2013 06:18
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concerned mom posted:This doesn't really bear any relevance to TotalWar other than I found it on the TotalWar Reddit but I thought it was really interesting and very well done so maybe think of this next time you see your little men fighting.
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Feb 26, 2013 07:16
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Dont know is this has been shared here yet but anyways. 3 new pics. http://imgur.com/a/JO4bC Teutoburg map, agents? and battlescene
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Feb 26, 2013 13:36
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Carolus posted:Dont know is this has been shared here yet but anyways. 3 new pics. The first one is talking about the tactical map. It says enemy units show up on it only if they're not hidden or are in line of sight and you won't be able to see enemy troops at all on it on the toughest difficulty. I guess the tactical map is just a more detailed minimap because you can't use it to order your troops around. The second one talks about how battles are still going to be the focus of Rome 2 but agents are going to "be key" for the campaign side and there will be three agent archetypes for each faction: officers, priests and spies/explorers. Each faction is going to have different agent skill trees, saying specifically a Greek priest is going to be different than a Roman one. It also says there's a "new camera" that you can place above your unit to watch them go into the fight at a closer zoom but I'm pretty sure you could do that in every total war game with the delete/insert keys. The last one just describes Teutorborg.
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Feb 26, 2013 18:22
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Ok, I wonder how the "officer" agent is used? About the camera, I belive its a little different than earlier games in that before you just followed the unit overhead but in Rome2 they have said that you can follow a particular soldier and see it through his eyes with emotion, sound etc that he would experience in such a situation.
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Feb 26, 2013 18:49
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Carolus posted:Ok, I wonder how the "officer" agent is used? Probably something like the foreign veterans in FoTS. Shogun 2's expansions really took away from the clear-cut agent roles of the previous games.
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Feb 26, 2013 19:16
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I am really looking forward to the new priestly agents, especially if/when Christianity becomes a major force in the expansion DLC's. Can anyone else see turning the Christians to worshipping Wodnez?
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Feb 26, 2013 23:06
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Carolus posted:Ok, I wonder how the "officer" agent is used? You could already do a first person view by hitting insert, if the dude was a cav you would see his horse as if you were FPS riding it. Pretty cool I guess but I wish CA would stop focusing on all this close in poo poo, I've probably zoomed in to watch the 1v1 fighting maybe a dozen times over the course of the series. I would much rather they focus on having the game look the greatest from the overview than on the ground level. Sick2Nasty motion cap synch kills and all that are cute but it limits the performance and I hate how the game just cuts units into lovely looking sprites after x many units are on screen even on max settings. I realize they can limit this with intelligent use of LOD but it seems like every game in the series has gotten lazier and lazier with LOD and instead just puts more units into sprites that look like trash. Koramei posted:Probably something like the foreign veterans in FoTS. Shogun 2's expansions really took away from the clear-cut agent roles of the previous games. For those of us that never played S2 expansions can you elaborate on how they mixed up the agent types/roles? Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 02:45
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Captain Beans posted:For those of us that never played S2 expansions can you elaborate on how they mixed up the agent types/roles? God I don't even remember the specifics of all of the FoTS units (I didn't play that campaign nearly so much as vanilla and rise) but I'll give it a go; although that I can't remember should be some indication of how muddy it got. And I'm not necessarily complaining about this either, it's nice to have multi-purpose agents. But let's compare the agents as the series progresses. In Rome, you have three (right? I think): Diplomat, Spy and Assassin. Diplomat is for talking to other factions and buying towns and armies, spy is for spying, assassin is for assassinating. They all have those particular roles, and while planting spies in cities can potentially remove a town from play just like diplomats, they don't really overlap at all. In Medieval 2, they add the Merchant and Priest. Every one of these agents, except for the one particularly intended for killing, can interact with their role, another of the same agent, and nothing else. compare that to vanilla Shogun 2: Priest/Monk, Ninja, Metsuke, Geisha. Every one of these is able to take every other out of play. This is, I believe, the case for all the Shogun 2 units except FoTS Geishas and RoTS Shirabyoshis (who are functionally identical to FoTS Geishas I think). So they all have effective assassin roles; not to mention the vanilla Geisha doesn't perform any role the Ninja can't. In vanilla Priest/Monk and Metsuke also both have direct anti-town roles; in RoTS monk and shirabyoshi literally do the exact same thing to armies (and the ninja-equivalent might be able to too, I've actually never gotten one); in FoTS there are I believe imperial and shogunate agents that are functionally identical, and foreign veterans that can assassinate just like the FoTS Shinobi. Basically, while the agents all have a specific role only they can perform, so it's not like they're all the same, there is a great deal of redundancy.
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Feb 27, 2013 03:31
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The two FotS police units (Ishin Shishi for the Empire and the Shinsengumi for the Shogunate) while similar actually do have minor differences. The Ishin Shishi, when embedded in an army, "instill fervor" which improves charge bonus while the Shinsengumi "instills discipline" and increases melee defense. The city action is nominally different, with the Ishin Shishi doing something like "inpire populace" while the Shinsengumi "supresses dissent." I don't know if they're functionally different. I think both increase happiness based on the level of support for your faction and I think suppress dissent counts as repression while inspire populace doesn't. The foreign agent is pretty interesting since his actions are to reduce recruitment costs in provinces and cities, slowly build experience for your troops in armies and cities, and assassinate and sabotage armies like a ninja. I don't remember what his enemy city action is, if he has any. My favorite bit about foreign agents is that yellow fever causes them to be especially vulnerable to seduction by geisha.
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Feb 27, 2013 06:37
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Koramei posted:Yeah, people often seem to miss that. The Total War AI could certainly be improved, and in Empire it was pretty inexcusable, but for most of the series it's really not that bad, all things considered. Like, the only RTS ever with AI that doesn't obviously cheat is Starcraft 2, and that was in development for like 10 years by the wealthiest game studio ever. The AI in Rome and Medieval 2 was trash as well. Rome AI specifically could have just rolled dice on the strategic map and been more convincing. On the tactical map it would bug out, get caught on terrain, charge stupidly etc all the time. The AI in the original shogun and medieval were more convincing to me because they were generally more constrained (the strategic map was just 2d provinces and tactical maps were relatively simple). The main improvements in the AI since Rome have mostly been in bringing back more constraint, strategic maps have been getting progressively smaller and "tighter" with each iteration, the tactical map AI seems to be at least somewhat more reasonable with its attack/defense and can deal with terrain a little better. The marginal improvements seen each iteration are pretty disappointing when you consider how long they've been working on this series, although I consider Shogun2 to be the best balanced and most fun of the series since the first 2 games. TheNakedFantastic fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 08:03
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shalcar posted:I just assumed the post was sarcastic, because AI programming is by far the most complicated and difficult software to write, especially when you figure in the capacity constraints that the system is under (making choices in a split second).
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Feb 27, 2013 08:16
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In shogun is there any specific way to reliably get your units to charge? It seems like most of the times when my troops engage they don't say "Charging" or anything like that.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:53
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Affi posted:In shogun is there any specific way to reliably get your units to charge? It seems like most of the times when my troops engage they don't say "Charging" or anything like that. Double right click the enemy with the selected unit, make sure your melee option is turned on and formations off.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:15
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What do formations actually do anyway? I'm a pretty bad Shogun 2 player but every time I try to put my army in formation it just puts them near each other and doesn't seem to convey a numerical or tactical bonus.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:24
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Actually, what specifically does guard mode actually do? Whens the best time to leave it on/turn it off? Playing Med 2 at the moment, SS mod.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:26
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Rabhadh posted:Actually, what specifically does guard mode actually do? Whens the best time to leave it on/turn it off? Playing Med 2 at the moment, SS mod. Makes them not chase enemy units. It's worthwhile during siege defenses so your guys don't run outside the walls.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:33
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I find guard mode most useful when running away, so that they actually keep going and leave stragglers rather than committing to a fight with 200 men because one person got caught.
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Feb 27, 2013 22:31
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Use it too when trying to maneuver around an enemy unit but you don't have the space to pull it off without bumping into them. With guard mode off your unit will stop and attack theirs as soon as they touch but with guard mode on they'll keep running.
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Feb 28, 2013 01:19
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Brannock posted:What do formations actually do anyway? I'm a pretty bad Shogun 2 player but every time I try to put my army in formation it just puts them near each other and doesn't seem to convey a numerical or tactical bonus. Formations confer no bonus. They're just premade organizations for you. I think most people just make their own. You can lock a group of units into their current formation by grouping them with G.
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Feb 28, 2013 01:25
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TheNakedFantastic posted:That's true, but the tactical stuff is actually the only semi decent part of the AI. Small studios were making better diplomacy and strategic AI more than a decade ago. It really feels like Creative Assembly knows they can get by with just throwing the same broken AI in game after game since the series has continued selling well regardless of how broken certain layers of the AI are. At least with Empire and Shogun 2 though they caught on to designing aspects of the game to cover for the AIs deficiency's. Explain to me these small amazing studios who were making good diplomatic and strategic AI.
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Feb 28, 2013 01:31
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Panzeh posted:Explain to me these small amazing studios who were making good diplomatic and strategic AI. Rose Coloured Glass Studios, I think.
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Feb 28, 2013 01:48
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