|
By the sounds of it, Vriska/Aranea is only mind controlling few select groups of ghosts, and the rest are just kinda... showing up after them of their own accord. So it's less of a genocide and more of a mass-murder.  I'm willing to give Hussie time on this one, this, coupled with Sollux's talk last time about the realness of alternate selves and Davesprite makes me hope Hussie is going somewhere with this, and that since he became a ghost he doesn't just kind of do things arbitrarily
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
Nephthys posted:Also remember that the army of ghosts is ahead of them. Meaning that Vriska's ship is actually closer to Lord English than they are. It doesn't seem like she's suicide-charging them at LE as I think some might be thinking. But it's a circle, which Caliborn already described as a ruse, so...
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:26
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:I think it's not so much the die now/die later dichotomy, rather than the lack of choice. The fact that they're doing it to alternate timeline doomed copies seems to exculpate them in their minds. Doomed timelines are, much like Vriska, causality's chew toy. According to the game's rules beta timeline players are doomed, so of course she sees nothing wrong with personally seeing to their dooming and profiting from it in the process. This is Vriska we're talking about. She is awesome and terrible like that. Aradia's position kinda makes sense if she thinks this is the only way to ensure her own survival, but Aranea's apparent shift in outlook is harder to parse. I guess Vriska just brought out her inner rear end in a top hat and Aranea is enjoying it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:29
|
|
|
You have 1000 people (you included). If you do nothing, all 1000 of those people will die. However, you have the opportunity to sacrifice 900 of those people to let 100 live. You also get to choose which of those 1000 people will live, which includes a number of your friends. What do you do? Although the situation is not even as bad as all that since most of the population is just carbon copies of people you do know (and want to live) except you don't know them and don't care about them. There's also the fact that there are apparently countless copies of the people you do care about and as far as we know Vriska isn't sacrificing every single one of them (just some). It's really grey morality but it's not just a straight up massacre for fun. Kit Walker fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:29
|
|
|
There's not much point in making an "ends justify the means" argument when Vriska is making it clear she doesn't think of the souls of dead beta-people as "people", especially since she's not really demonstrating remorse and is also playing favorites with who she uses as bait and is overpowering their consent. Not everyone's a strict utilitarian and even those who are usually expect you to be aware and respectful of the moral cost of your actions. Also if you use "well I don't know them/find them personally unpleasant" in your moral calculus, well... I'd like to believe that this is all pointing at underlying issues with the characters that need to be addressed and one day Dave or Karkat is going to come across this and not be willing to shrug their shoulders and walk away. I'm more worried it'll just be swept under the rug as plot convenience. Remember how Hussie warned that breaking the 4th wall too much can permanently ruin people's ability to give a poo poo? Kind of a similar situation. Dolash fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
I bet this is what he leaves everyone on until he gets back from the con, so everyone has plenty of time to tear each other to shreds over the morality of Vriskatime. drat you, Hussie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Kit Walker posted:You have 1000 people (you included). If you do nothing, all 1000 of those people will die. However, you have the opportunity to sacrifice 900 of those people to let 100 live. You also get to choose which of those 1000 people will live, which includes a number of your friends. What do you do? A brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley, approaching a fork in the track. The brain is hooked up to the trolley in such a way that the brain can determine which course the trolley will take. There are only two options: the right side of the fork, or the left side. There is no way to derail or stop the trolley, and the brain is aware of this. On the right side of the track there is a single railroad worker, Jones, who will definitely be killed if the brain steers the trolley to the right. If Jones lives he will go on to kill five men for the sake of thirty orphans (one of the five men he will kill is planning to destroy a bridge that the orphans’ bus will be crossing later that night). One of the orphans who will be killed would have grown up to become a tyrant who made good, utilitarian men do bad things, another would have become John Sununu, a third would have invented the pop-top can. If the brain in the vat chooses the left side of the track, the trolley will definitely hit and kill another railman, Leftie, and will hit and destroy ten beating hearts on the track that would have been transplanted into ten patients at the local hospital who will die without donor hearts. These are the only hearts available, and the brain is aware of this. If the railman on the left side of the track lives, he, too, will kill five men – in fact, the same five that the railman on the right would kill. However, Leftie will kill the five as an unintended consequence of saving ten men: he will inadvertently kill the five men as he rushes the ten hearts to the local hospital for transplantation. A further result of Leftie’s act is that the busload of orphans will be spared. Among the five men killed by Leftie is the man responsible for putting the brain at the controls of the trolley. If the ten hearts and Leftie are killed by the trolley, the ten prospective heart-transplant patients will die and their kidneys will be used to save the lives of twenty kidney transplant patients, one of whom will grow up to cure cancer and one of whom will grow up to be Hitler. There are other kidneys and dialysis machines available, but the brain does not know this. Assume that the brain’s choice, whatever it turns out to be, will serve as an example to other brains in vats, and thus the effects of its decision will be amplified. Also assume that if the brain chooses the right side of the fork, an unjust war free of war crimes will ensue, whereas if the brain chooses the left fork, a just war fraught with war crimes will result. Furthermore, there is an intermittently active Cartesian demon deceiving the brain in such a way that the brain is never sure that it is being deceived. Question: Ethically speaking, what should the brain do?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:36
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:I bet this is what he leaves everyone on until he gets back from the con, so everyone has plenty of time to tear each other to shreds over the morality of Vriskatime. drat you, Hussie. Oh my god, that would be the most hilarious thing. By the time he came back, Tumblr would have eaten itself alive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:36
|
|
|
I noticed a few people saying Aradia is sensible and should be against this. I think you need to be reminded of the time she sent thousands of doomed copies to attack the Black King through her time powers. Sending thousands of ghosts who are already dead and doomed to spend life in dream bubbles isn't all that different when you take that into account. Regardless of that, this does feel a bit like a step back in Vriska's character. She's gone to her old ways of "ends justify means" and doesn't care that she's dooming all these ghosts to destruction. She has a point in that everyone was twiddling their thumbs and not making up any plans to take down Lord English, but even so this is extreme. I would have better liked to see Meenah, Vriska and Aranea together convince the others that they need to fight this guy who is threatening their existence. Meenah alone couldn't, but I'm sure people would have listened to Aranea. Also for being the "light-hearted nice Vriska" that Aranea was presented as in her introduction, she's helping doom all her friends by flinging them at Lord English. That's really messed up. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:38
|
|
|
Kankri would tell you guys to stop homicide shaming. It's what he wants, respect his (Vriska's) wishes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:40
|
|
|
lotus circle posted:I noticed a few people saying Aradia is sensible and should be against this. I think you need to be reminded of the time she sent thousands of doomed copies to attack the Black King through her time powers. Sending thousands of ghosts who are already dead and doomed to spend life in dream bubbles isn't all that different when you take that into account. All those Aradias were Aradia, acting of her own free will. They mutually made the decision to sacrifice themselves in the fight against the King. It's incredibly different based on that alone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:41
|
|
|
Android Blues posted:All those Aradias were Aradia, acting of her own free will. They mutually made the decision to sacrifice themselves in the fight against the King. It's incredibly different based on that alone. That or she's a double agent, in that she wants to secure her own existence by secretly helping LE. But I don't think that's in her character. We'll see.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:43
|
|
|
We have an overwrought doomsday scenario looming and the day can only be saved if one character breaks all ethical boundaries and acts like a huge jerkass, leading some to argue over the nature of heroism. Please, nobody ever introduce Antonin Scalia to Homestuck. I don't think my heart could take it. the liveblog would be amazing though
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:48
|
|
|
Seoinin posted:A brain in a vat is at the wheel of a runaway trolley, approaching a fork in the track. This post was terribly confusing until I realised that apparently in America a trolley is some kind of train and not something you put your shopping in at the supermarket.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:49
|
|
|
lotus circle posted:Fair enough. My point is Aradia has a very warped sense of death and finality. She sees dead bodies and wants to throw a party. She's open to greeting the many dead Nepetas as she is welcome to flinging them at Lord English. Y'see I'd love it if scenes like this were meant to highlight the fundamentally hosed up parts of these characters that are eventually going to matter somehow. Aradia's fatalism making her a happy, willing pawn of Lord English who turns on her friends and helps him kill them? That'd be gold. Vriska's inability to change biting her in the rear end when the others won't accept her even if her actions end up saving the day? Also good. Aranea slowly becoming more and more Mindfang until she starts playing around with sadism for fun? An interesting development. Just, kind of the worst thing that could happen is if all this ghost killng happens and then everyone (who lives) ends up getting a happy ending we're supposed to care about without addressing their hosed up issues. Even John really needs to snap out of it and start being more of a proactive, heroic protagonist if he expects people to actually be invested in whether he succeeds or not, as of now it's hard to seriously root for a guy who doesn't seem to have strong opinions on murder but is very angry about Nicholas Cage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:49
|
|
|
Seoinin posted:Question: Ethically speaking, what should the brain do? Vriska should kill the brain.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:50
|
|
|
lotus circle posted:Regardless of that, this does feel a bit like a step back in Vriska's character. She's gone to her old ways of "ends justify means" and doesn't care that she's dooming all these ghosts to destruction. I'm thinking Vriska's character development isn't becoming less of a huge jerk, but rather more channeling her huge jerkiness to, ultimately, help more people than she dooms. Also, not quite so much of blaming everything around her for her own misfortune. Anyone who thought Vriska was going to grow into a considerate person was probably deluding themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 17:52
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:I'm thinking Vriska's character development isn't becoming less of a huge jerk, but rather more channeling her huge jerkiness to, ultimately, help more people than she dooms. Also, not quite so much of blaming everything around her for her own misfortune. That bit where she killed Tavros then expressed her regret to John before resolving to die trying to save her remaining friends did at the time seem to suggest Vriska was developing empathy. That she now sacrifices souls en mass non-consensually means either that was a fakeout (rather a waste of character development) or we're being told this totally doesn't count and shouldn't indicate anything about her character, which is pretty jarring. Just imagine one scene where one of those mind-controlled ghosts slips Vriska's control long enough to scream that they don't want to die (again) and imagine John watching impassively from the ship 'cause hey gotta break some eggs to save the universe and the problem with this scene should be pretty apparent. I guess we'll see where it goes, but Hussie doesn't have a great track record with exploring inconvenient consequences of his characters' actions. Edit: I guess I am officially an old man because I tried to go to tumblr to gauge their reaction and can't figure out how to navigate it. Searching homestuck just gives me a big pile of pictures, there's got to be a more convenient way. Dolash fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:02
|
|
|
Prison Warden posted:This post was terribly confusing until I realised that apparently in America a trolley is some kind of train and not something you put your shopping in at the supermarket. No, those are Trains and Shopping Carts in America. I have no idea where hes from.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:11
|
|
|
So, uh, where are all the beta Vriska's and beta Meenah's? I looked closely at the mini-strife and while there were a few beta Arenea's there wasn't either of the aforementioned characters in sight. What would they think about being sacrificed? Why didn't Meenah think of contacting more of herselves for her army, except for maybe that genetic need to kill her kin?
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:14
|
|
|
I'm reminded of Hickman's run of New Avengers, running with the theme of death and the extreme measures with which superheroes are preparing to carry out to save the Earth at the expense of countless peoples.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:14
|
|
|
You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down and you see a tortoise. It's crawling towards you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't, not without your help, but you're not helping. Instead you shoot it with a machine gun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:17
|
|
Seoinin posted:Question: Ethically speaking, what should the brain do? Math, to the best of it's ability in the time it has, and then choose the smaller number.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:30
|
|
|
Dolash posted:That bit where she killed Tavros then expressed her regret to John before resolving to die trying to save her remaining friends did at the time seem to suggest Vriska was developing empathy. That she now sacrifices souls en mass non-consensually means either that was a fakeout (rather a waste of character development) or we're being told this totally doesn't count and shouldn't indicate anything about her character, which is pretty jarring. Yeah, that's a horrid mental image, but I guess Vriska's a bit of a utilitarian in this. Send thousands to their death, or let a swole green pimp destroy everything. I mean, it's callous with life, but Homestuck has been callous with life from the word go. This a story that begins with all life on two planets being exterminated-- having been predestined to be nothing more than futile endevour leading up to one event that ultimately discards that planet as a useless husk-- because some kids wanted to play a computer game. Sometimes it's played for humor (some of it very black), sometimes it's a backdrop of 'what the hell happened to our lives'. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:39
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:Yeah, that's a horrid mental image, but I guess Vriska's a bit of a utilitarian in this. Send thousands to their death, or let a swole green pimp destroy everything. Admittedly they didn't know that was going to happen, but still. And in the case of the trolls, it was probably a lot more than one planet; they were a massive galaxy-spanning empire, after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:41
|
|
|
LOCUST FART HELL posted:You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down and you see a tortoise. It's crawling towards you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't, not without your help, but you're not helping. Instead you shoot it with a machine gun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
Ablative posted:Admittedly they didn't know that was going to happen, but still. I'm not sure if not knowing makes it much better. Vriska, at least, is pretty drat sure that this is going to save everything. Prior to that, everyone just fell rear end-first into the extinction of their species as a side-effect of everything and plowed ahead, already in for the proverbial penny. Having had to walk through the destruction of their entire civilizations as a necessary part of their salvation might have affected their view on this sort of thing. Cabbit fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
Dolash posted:Edit: I guess I am officially an old man because I tried to go to tumblr to gauge their reaction and can't figure out how to navigate it. Searching homestuck just gives me a big pile of pictures, there's got to be a more convenient way. For anyone else trying to navigate that whirlwind of teenage emotions the tag for checking reactions to the most recent Homestuck panel is "upd8".
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:00
|
|
|
Actually, this is exactly what's been so frustrating about Act 6 so far: the flatness and total lack of development of the characters. In Act 5, the human kids were pretty savvy with the trolls, sussing out their intentions and coming up with witty comebacks. The act introduced long, tender and intimate exchanges between several characters, with tons of growth happening: John/Vriska, Dave/Terezi, Kanaya/Rose, Karkat/Karkat/Jade/Jade. That act also had a diabolical arch-villain in Doc Scratch, who made for a perfect love-to-hate, intelligent, manipulative Satan figure. Now we get a bunch of characters with completely stunted development: our arch-villains may as well be cardboard cutouts. Caliborn is stuck being a prepubescent proto-serial killer, while HIC seems to be basically just a spoiled hundreds-of-years-old teenager. The ghost trolls are all locked into their selves as they died. The B2 kids seem to be a combination of all the worst traits of the B1 kids, but minus the wit. Worse still, they are stuck in a void session where they stagnate and have boring, emotionally dysfunctional relationships until development is forced on them through juju drugs and being killed into god tier. It certainly captures the feel of the void session, but man is it depressing. Meanwhile, the characters who actually have been growing are all stuck in the background. Gamzee is up to something, and seems to have a fairly deep plan, but has barely said a word all act. Rose and Terezi are both addicts. Jade has barely said a word before being mind controlled into silence. John has gotten to talk, but it's mostly been nodding his head and going "Uh huh. Yeah." to Vriska. For gently caress's sake, his biggest chunk of dialogue has been a loving tantrum about Nicolas Cage. I just hope this picks up soon. We need to actually care about the characters again for there to be any suspense when the story picks up. OK, rant over.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
Seoinin posted:Question: Ethically speaking, what should the brain do? False equivalence. In both of your choices, everyone doesn't die. In one of these choices, everyone dies. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number We can only build close relationships with a small number of people. It's not really strange to put more value in people you're close to than people you don't know or don't know very well. If you have to sacrifice some people you don't know to ensure that people you do know and care about about survive (especially if doing otherwise ensures those other people will die anyway), why wouldn't you? Kit Walker fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:31
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:I bet this is what he leaves everyone on until he gets back from the con, so everyone has plenty of time to tear each other to shreds over the morality of Vriskatime. drat you, Hussie. Either this, or somehow finding an even worse part of the conversation to leave off on before his trip. We can always dig deeper. But knowing Hussie, he very well could be going somewhere with this, so I won't be surprised if after a week or so(alternately: much longer) we end up with some kind of satisfactory development. Every so often in the comic Hussie will do something with the plot that people don't like or don't trust, and then complain about wondering if they're going to want to keep reading with the direction the comic is going, and then suddenly something happens and it all works and makes sense, and the plot is exciting again. (The Trickstermode part comes immediately to mind as the latest example.) I've seen this loop repeat itself quite a few times with readers I know, and sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't immediately assume that Hussie's jumped the shark every time something happens. Dolash posted:it's hard to seriously root for a guy who doesn't seem to have strong opinions on murder but is very angry about Nicholas Cage. Some might say this makes John the quintessential internet nerd. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:43
|
|
|
I laughed out loud at this update. Same old Vriska. Never change. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 19:45
|
|
|
Thundarr posted:According to the game's rules beta timeline players are doomed, so of course she sees nothing wrong with personally seeing to their dooming and profiting from it in the process. This is Vriska we're talking about. She is awesome and terrible like that. But they're only doomed to death, not double-death. lotus circle posted:I noticed a few people saying Aradia is sensible and should be against this. I think you need to be reminded of the time she sent thousands of doomed copies to attack the Black King through her time powers. Sending thousands of ghosts who are already dead and doomed to spend life in dream bubbles isn't all that different when you take that into account. Again, for all we know double-death is absolutely permanent and destroys the soul, as opposed to regular death which all of those Aradias had already experienced anyway. In addition, all of them made the decision to give their lives. What Vriska's doing is inarguably worse in every way. lotus circle posted:Fair enough. My point is Aradia has a very warped sense of death and finality. She sees dead bodies and wants to throw a party. She's open to greeting the many dead Nepetas as she is welcome to flinging them at Lord English. Actually, her sense of finality perfectly fits what death is in Homestuck. Or it would if she hadn't gone along with Vriska's plan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 20:26
|
|
|
Jewel Repetition posted:But they're only doomed to death, not double-death. You're speculating, there, we don't know precisely how doomed doomed is. That Sollux has reappeared might mean an explanation is forthcoming, though, him being a Doom player.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 20:43
|
|
|
Midnight Raider posted:I've seen this loop repeat itself quite a few times with readers I know, and sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't immediately assume that Hussie's jumped the shark every time something happens. No, I'm with you. Hussie goes on about it a lot but I honestly think it is, once again the nature of serial readership as opposed to archival readership. When you read a book or watch a movie, you are getting the story all at once, in one big chunk, so any low points in the story which are used to set up drama or foreshadow future events etc fade into the overall arc of the story, whereas here we have a long time to analyse each detail. Even in other serial works, such as TV and novel series the story breaks at particular moments that the writer ideally uses as a good stopping point. Homestuck on the other hand is constantly new material and while Hussie may hold back a few panels or something while he is working on a run, I think it'd be silly to try and claim every single break at every single update is calculated to be an ideal break point in the story flow. I think I've used this example before but to be a giant nerd I will again. think of Star Wars, if there were only two movies you;d probably be a little pissed at how the story was going down. Han captured, Luke lost his hand, the characters' personal arcs are incomplete, the day isn't saved and everything is going to poo poo. Now imagine if you just stopped watching like 30 minutes into Empire, you'd be even more annoyed, right? But if you actually think about it, you know there is more movie to come, and even when Empire came out it was obvious from the story set up that there was another act to come in the story just as it is here. But because of the serial nature of Homestuck we are near-constantly in "between books" or "between episodes" analysis mode and I don't think any story would hold up 100% under that kind of scrutiny.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
No one has been a louder supporter of the archival experience here than me, but these past two months have really disappointed me in a way that hasn't happened before. It feels like a lot of things are happening only to backtrack where Hussie may have written himself into a corner. Why did anything with Roxy on Derse happen if it didn't change anything because she was just going to get Trickstered and end up on the bed anyway? Why was Jake so blatantly set up to have brain damage if it was just going to probably go away with godtiering? Why did Hussie ever try to make dramatic tension of whether him being godtiered would even work with his dreamself's early death? Why did we have that thing with HIC's book to Roxy? Why did we end up having two characters mindcontrolled by a badguy yet a-loving-gain when we just then got done with the Trickster stuff? It may be consistent with prior events for it to potentially happen, but how is it tense or dramatic for this card to be played for probably the tenth time? Everything that has happened before Act 6 Act 5 has been keeping with a cohesive narrative, but to me it is all falling apart now. I'm scared Hussie is trying to wind things down into a neat little bow too fast and too early, treating questions about how everything will come together as a logic puzzle instead of as pieces of compelling fiction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:18
|
|
|
It's not like there's any guarantee that it will be resolved. It's not like homestuck doesn't have things in it that stay weird. (mindfangs journal mindfangs journal mindfangs journal) Jazu fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:29
|
|
|
MrBims posted:No one has been a louder supporter of the archival experience here than me, but these past two months have really disappointed me in a way that hasn't happened before. It feels like a lot of things are happening only to backtrack where Hussie may have written himself into a corner. Why did anything with Roxy on Derse happen if it didn't change anything because she was just going to get Trickstered and end up on the bed anyway? Why was Jake so blatantly set up to have brain damage if it was just going to probably go away with godtiering? Why did Hussie ever try to make dramatic tension of whether him being godtiered would even work with his dreamself's early death? Why did we have that thing with HIC's book to Roxy? Why did we end up having two characters mindcontrolled by a badguy yet a-loving-gain when we just then got done with the Trickster stuff? It may be consistent with prior events for it to potentially happen, but how is it tense or dramatic for this card to be played for probably the tenth time? 1) Who says it won't? The Condesce set Roxy up with the book/plan and what not, but Triskter mode was Caliborn's deal, so now that a bunch of them are under her control why wouldn't she bring that up again (either as a second chance or a you had your chance way) especially if this is part of a rebellion against LE/Caliborn 2) Who says it went away? 3) Well, we were worried if Jake could go god-tier, so the dramatic tension worked? I'm not really sure what this complaint is about. 4) Same as the first point 5) This is... the third time a main character has been straight up mind controlled by a bad(?) guy (not counting Vriska here though). Grimdark, trickster, Condesce. Also I really don't see how Jade, the most powerful kid, being mind controlled isn't tense. Coming right off Triskter mode I sort of see the complaint, but I'm not really sure we're supposed to be treating them as two separate 'events'. One was Caliborn(/Calliope) attempting to force the kids into brutally fast character development. Not a take control plot, but a 'I want things this way' type deal. It was a childish attempt to 'help'. Hussie even dressed down Caliborn for it. Now compare to the Condesce's sneak attack. What we've seen so far is that it's brutal, ingenuous and calculated ie. an 'adult' plot (especially compare to Vriska or maybe even Terezi's similar plans). It's a compare and contrast type situation. Like some other people said, the story's not done yet. A lot of the stuff you mentioned has been dropped for now, sure, but that doesn't mean it won't come up again later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:55
|
|
|
MrBims posted:Why did anything with Roxy on Derse happen if it didn't change anything because she was just going to get Trickstered and end up on the bed anyway? Because it's not about the destination, it's about the journey, maaaaaaaan. But seriously, how alone she found herself when everyone else was loving up and she was trying to hold it together served to characterise how the characters had developed over the course of unseen weeks well in a small amount of space. That she could get kidnapped and no-one else knew or even noticed her missing perfectly highlighted the breakdown of the group. quote:Why was Jake so blatantly set up to have brain damage if it was just going to probably go away with godtiering? Isn't this just a random fan theory that is also explained by jake is a derp/realised what a derp he was when a friend exploded at him and thus went through some character development? quote:Why did Hussie ever try to make dramatic tension of whether him being godtiered would even work with his dreamself's early death? I'm pretty sure dramatic tension is itself the answer. At the time we didn't know what was happening. Jake was already dead? What the hell? Is he gonna be able to god tier? Is he really dead? How hosed are the kids? quote:Why did we have that thing with HIC's book to Roxy? That was pure funny and awesomeness. quote:Why did we end up having two characters mindcontrolled by a badguy yet a-loving-gain when we just then got done with the Trickster stuff? It may be consistent with prior events for it to potentially happen, but how is it tense or dramatic for this card to be played for probably the tenth time? I can't really work out this complaint. Who has been mind controlled in this manner before to such an extent that to even use mind control again is a bad idea? Rose was still basically Rose, just in some crazy fester throes rather than being mind controlled by a horrorterror, right? None of the Troll crew that I can remember except for little bits with Vriska and even then never in this manner. None of the Carpacians or Felt. Also we don't really know what the hell's going on with the crazy English Jack, it might be mind control it might just be Jack with crazy powers and a warped personality.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 11:29 |
|
|
MrBims posted:No one has been a louder supporter of the archival experience here than me, but these past two months have really disappointed me in a way that hasn't happened before. It feels like a lot of things are happening only to backtrack where Hussie may have written himself into a corner. Why did anything with Roxy on Derse happen if it didn't change anything because she was just going to get Trickstered and end up on the bed anyway? Why was Jake so blatantly set up to have brain damage if it was just going to probably go away with godtiering? Why did Hussie ever try to make dramatic tension of whether him being godtiered would even work with his dreamself's early death? Why did we have that thing with HIC's book to Roxy? Why did we end up having two characters mindcontrolled by a badguy yet a-loving-gain when we just then got done with the Trickster stuff? It may be consistent with prior events for it to potentially happen, but how is it tense or dramatic for this card to be played for probably the tenth time? Half of what your complaining about was not implicit in the plot, but fan theories that ended up not panning out. As for Roxy, I think it's pretty obvious she wound up on Derse specifically to get the Queens ring, which judging by the foreshadowing of a similar ring in John's possession, is going to be very plot-relevent. As to what HIC wanted her to do, I think we will find out as soon as the current intermission is over, seeing as how she is once again captured. As for the mind control, what other major character has been controlled by a villain? Edit: Beaten, twice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 21:58
|
|
