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Brown Moses posted:The government is directly involved, this hasn't exactly been a well hidden process. Why did you expect Russia to poo poo a brick over the news, then? Or is this a "we know what's going on, but we aren't going to say anything until it comes up in the NYT" things?
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Feb 26, 2013 16:30
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Space Gopher posted:Why did you expect Russia to poo poo a brick over the news, then? Or is this a "we know what's going on, but we aren't going to say anything until it comes up in the NYT" things? I'd assume the Russians and Iranians would be pretty pissed off the Saudis and US were arming the Syrian opposition with Croatian arms via Jordan.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:32
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Brown Moses posted:I'd assume the Russians and Iranians would be pretty pissed off the Saudis and US were arming the Syrian opposition with Croatian arms via Jordan. Well, of course, but from your description it seems like they'd likely have some idea of what was going on already. Your work has been amazing, but I can't help but think that a team of full-time analysts backed by a major government could do similar work.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:37
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quote:Follow the guns This seems like it will apply in current and coming conflicts. I imagine there has rarely been a war with only two actors.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:43
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Space Gopher posted:Well, of course, but from your description it seems like they'd likely have some idea of what was going on already. Your work has been amazing, but I can't help but think that a team of full-time analysts backed by a major government could do similar work. There's a difference between knowing something quietly and internally, versus having that same information publicly available where you're asked about it and have to respond in public statements. It's diplomatically awkward for Russia, as Croatia was part of the old Soviet client state of Yugoslavia, and now they're actively supplying arms against a current Russian client state.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:43
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Brown Moses posted:Yep, that's why the NYT invited me to do the At War blog and the Washington Post made a big mention of my work in their piece. I'm certain anyone writing about it is basing it off my initial work on the subject. That's incredible. Awesome job. Somewhere in Nevada, a washed up gay porn actor googles his name, and sighs.
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Feb 26, 2013 17:02
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Brown Moses posted:I've also just got a poo poo load of referrals from this Russian news site, be interesting to see how Russia and Iran picks up on this. Lenta.ru is Russia's biggest left-leaning news site - their op-eds are usually snarky as all hell - so that's not close official reaction yet, by any means.
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Feb 26, 2013 17:41
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Deteriorata posted:It's diplomatically awkward for Russia, as Croatia was part of the old Soviet client state of Yugoslavia, and now they're actively supplying arms against a current Russian client state. I think that Yugoslavia split with the Warsaw Pact pretty early on during the Stalin-Tito split. They were founding members of the Non-Aligned Movement, after all.
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Feb 26, 2013 18:24
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Spiderfist Island posted:I think that Yugoslavia split with the Warsaw Pact pretty early on during the Stalin-Tito split. They were founding members of the Non-Aligned Movement, after all. The Soviet Union remained their primary arms supplier. Relations with the Soviets improved considerably after 1955, with Yugoslavia even getting permission to manufacture their own versions of Soviet arms, including T-72 tanks. Their diplomatic relations were cool and sometimes strained, but militarily they a Soviet client state. Tito did buy some Western arms as well, but nowhere near what he got from the Soviets.
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Feb 26, 2013 18:43
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Great job Brown Moses, the NYtimes is the best of the best as far as journalism goes in the US. Do you have any more info on those Chinese manpads? That's the one weapon I'm really confused about in Syria. Maybe there were some in Croatia?
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Feb 26, 2013 19:36
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Charliegrs posted:Great job Brown Moses, the NYtimes is the best of the best as far as journalism goes in the US. Someone has told me they were possible part of a arms sale that included radar equipment, but I've yet to confirm that. Got another interesting weapon post on the way for my blog, should be up soon.
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Feb 26, 2013 19:48
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Here's my latest little post about an American anti-tank missile filmed in Syria http://brown-moses.blogspot.com/2013/02/american-anti-tank-missile-filmed-in.html
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Feb 26, 2013 21:23
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Am I missing it or should I be surprised al-Jazeera doesn't have their own story up yet? Congratulations, Brown Moses.
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Feb 26, 2013 22:14
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Brown Moses posted:Here's my latest little post about an American anti-tank missile filmed in Syria I wonder what side that missile belonged to? That would probably clear up a lot of confusion about where it came from. Since it looks like a rebel video, and the missile is just laying there on the ground I wonder if its something they found? Maybe the regime was using it? In which case it might have come from Iran. Apparently they have a lot of American made ATGMs and build their own copies of missiles like the Dragon and the Tow. Thanks again Reagan...
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Feb 26, 2013 22:17
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GreenCard78 posted:Am I missing it or should I be surprised al-Jazeera doesn't have their own story up yet? I wouldn't be surprised if Al Jazeera knew about the story and is ignoring it. AJ is known to be quite the mouthpiece for the Qatari royal family, and the Qataris probably have a hand in the financing of the Croatian weapons along with Saudi Arabia. It might be a bit of a conflict of interest for AJ to report the story. Charliegrs fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 22:20
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I wouldn't be surprised if AJE did put something up about it eventually. With all due respect to BM it's really not big news in terms of international relations- Iran and Russia would be well aware that the rebels are being armed by SA through a cover. All they'll do is feed the PressTV propaganda in Iran and continue on truck'n.
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Feb 26, 2013 22:40
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At least now regime supporters/'anti-imperialists' have an excuse as to why the SAA hasn't won yet.
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Feb 27, 2013 02:27
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Well I'm a little late for this, but congrats on making the NYTimes, Brown Moses!
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Feb 27, 2013 02:48
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Brown Moses posted:Here's my latest little post about an American anti-tank missile filmed in Syria Was this weapon exported? Cause it seems like someone has some 'splainin to do.
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Feb 27, 2013 06:47
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Lote posted:Was this weapon exported? Cause it seems like someone has some 'splainin to do. The US military was in Iraq for years, sone hardware could have fallen into insurgent hands 
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Feb 27, 2013 06:57
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McDowell posted:The US military was in Iraq for years, sone hardware could have fallen into insurgent hands Dragons were phased out in 2001 in favor for the Javelin, at least two years before the Iraq War. There's surplus, but it's likely an export, I'd say Israel or Jordan. Iran may have largely exhausted their supply due to the Iran-Iraq War (although they have produced a reverse-engineered copy) and the Iraqis supposedly captured a bunch in the same. But those markings seem way too clean, so it had to be a recent sale, which is why I think Israel or Jordan or from American stocks.
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Feb 27, 2013 07:02
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Young Freud posted:Dragons were phased out in 2001 in favor for the Javelin, at least two years before the Iraq War. There's surplus, but it's likely an export, I'd say Israel or Jordan. Iran may have largely exhausted their supply due to the Iran-Iraq War (although they have produced a reverse-engineered copy) and the Iraqis supposedly captured a bunch in the same. Best guess is someone in Jordan had a shipment that fell off the back of a truck.
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Feb 27, 2013 07:20
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So it seems Washington may be considering directly sending the rebels some non "non-lethal" aid http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/syria/us-considering-sending-aid-syrian-rebels-washington-post-reports quote:The White House is considering a shift in policy toward the nearly two-year-long conflict in Syria, and may send the rebels body armour and armed vehicles, and possibly provide military training, the Washington Post reported, citing US and European officials.
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Feb 27, 2013 07:39
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Young Freud posted:Dragons were phased out in 2001 in favor for the Javelin, at least two years before the Iraq War. There's surplus, but it's likely an export, I'd say Israel or Jordan. Iran may have largely exhausted their supply due to the Iran-Iraq War (although they have produced a reverse-engineered copy) and the Iraqis supposedly captured a bunch in the same. The markings put it as being made in March 1977, around the time they were being exported all over the Middle East, including Iran, so it's a big list of suspects.
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Feb 27, 2013 10:25
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Does a 35 year old missile even work anymore ? I remember about the Stingers that were sent to the Mujahedeen the batteries for the fire control unit and the chemical stability of the rocket fuel had a limited life.
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Feb 27, 2013 10:44
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CeeJee posted:Does a 35 year old missile even work anymore ? I remember about the Stingers that were sent to the Mujahedeen the batteries for the fire control unit and the chemical stability of the rocket fuel had a limited life. Well in this case it appears that if it was fired all the guidance motors didn't fire, and it didn't detonate, so possible not.
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Feb 27, 2013 11:58
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Brown Moses posted:The markings put it as being made in March 1977, around the time they were being exported all over the Middle East, including Iran, so it's a big list of suspects. "3-77"  I can't read these markings good. But, you're right, that's at least four countries involved, not including the U.S. Although, isn't there usually a turnaround time before the U.S. starts exporting top-line equipment? Then again, two or three years might be enough, considering we believed there would be a Russian armored assault into the Middle East to seize or deny oil production.
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Feb 27, 2013 13:12
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Brown Moses, how in god's name do you find out who was given what missiles by the P/N number? I can't imagine there are a lot of public records of that.
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Feb 27, 2013 15:59
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Brown Moses posted:The markings put it as being made in March 1977, around the time they were being exported all over the Middle East, including Iran, so it's a big list of suspects. That would make it 35 years old. Don't guided missiles have a shelf-life of about a decade? Edit: Asked and answered.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:11
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Brown Moses posted:Well in this case it appears that if it was fired all the guidance motors didn't fire, and it didn't detonate, so possible not. The Dragon was a piece of poo poo that woudl do exactly that even when it was new sometimes.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:35
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papasyhotcakes posted:So it seems Washington may be considering directly sending the rebels some non "non-lethal" aid I'm sure bringing this up is how Kerry got the SNC to come back to the table, but last year, literally everyone was telling Obama to be more pro-active towards the rebels, and he shut that poo poo down because of the election. We'll see if he does it again. What's sad is that giving up armor and things like that leave more of a footprint that can end up being bad news in the wrong hands compared to establishing a no-fly zone, but it's less politically toxic.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:37
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Torpor posted:Brown Moses, how in god's name do you find out who was given what missiles by the P/N number? I can't imagine there are a lot of public records of that. There's various reports of them being sold to a variety of countries, problem is figuring out which one it is, something I'm working on. Whatever the answer it's bound to be interesting.
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Feb 27, 2013 16:41
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I think that there are complete records of where-when if you have a full serial number and manufacturer available. It is with the Pentagon, who register and conduct the sales/transfers, and also with the manufacturer itself unless I'm mistaken. These kinds of weapons are tracked in every port, in every storage facility, at least nowadays. I'm pretty sure there are organisations around that accept queries and do the work necessary to find stuff out.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:02
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I'd be interested in hearing if and how the NYT story is being reported in non-English language speaking countries, I've already been interviewed by a Croatian paper about it, plus a few other journalists.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:41
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@The47th tweeted you're to blame for fighting breaking out at the Syrian border with Jordan. Now you're not just blogging about it you're causing it.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:51
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If true, Syrian rebels having seemingly taken the war against Hezbollah leadership. Syrian rebels claim to kill Hezbollah deputy chief quote:Hezbollah's deputy chief was killed Tuesday when Syrian rebels bombed a convoy consisting of high-ranking Syrian government officers near the Lebanon border, news portal Now Lebanon quoted the Free Syria Army as saying on Wednesday. Rip Testes fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 17:53
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Highspeeddub posted:@The47th tweeted you're to blame for fighting breaking out at the Syrian border with Jordan. Now you're not just blogging about it you're causing it. He was just teasing, unfortuantly some of my other followers aren't.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:55
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CeeJee posted:Does a 35 year old missile even work anymore ? I remember about the Stingers that were sent to the Mujahedeen the batteries for the fire control unit and the chemical stability of the rocket fuel had a limited life. I hear our military already has trouble firing their Konkurs ATGMs and those are almost 10 years newer than the Dragon. I'm mildly surprised a '77 ATGM still works.
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Feb 27, 2013 18:10
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I wonder what kind of "armed vehicles" the US would send to the FSA? Hummers?
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Feb 27, 2013 20:24
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder what kind of "armed vehicles" the US would send to the FSA? Hummers? I'm sure it wouldn't be any of our stock. Probably just throw money at the Saudis and keep flowing in stuff from Croatia and Libya. Probably some vehicles among all that, and enough to make an impact. Is there a good write-up anywhere of the kinds and amounts of weapons that were used in the Balkans? Obviously, it was a sizable amount, but I'm wondering just how that stock compares to the Syrian army's.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:49
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