|
Thanks for the info guys. Isos are the poo poo, and I usually rely on them when I'm training around a joint injury. It's too bad people don't do them more, because most trainees can't hold position for poo poo and I'm convinced that's where the majority of non-catastrophic injuries come from. (I've been teaching my fiance some mobility stuff and she's getting a hell of a workout just keeping her shoulders in the pocket when she stretches.) I'm looking at doing barbell complexes and some kb work twice a week in addition to skill practice and some light running. 10kcal/pound. Boring, simple stuff.
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 16:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:04 |
|
|
Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Thanks for the info guys. I like doing that kind of stuff when I'm looking to put on weight, but with kettlebells especially it's difficult to get into the rep range I want (3-6). I also tend to be mindful of working particularly muscle groups too much -- when it comes to barbell complexes for instance, while there's nothing necessarily wrong with doing, say, cleans and upright rows on the same day, I know personally that it would fatigue the poo poo out of my shoulders and make me less effective at practice the next day and more susceptible to injury. I also dislike Olympic-style lifts in general, but that's more of a personal bias. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 16:22
|
|
|
Julio Cesar Fatass posted:Hey Shiny, since I'm in the same boat as KidDynamite (gotta cut a weight class or two over the next year) could you talk some more about weight training for martial arts guys trying to lose weight? For the sake of argument let's say a guy is willing to train twice a day at least once a week. In my mind, loosing weight for sport performance is very different than loosing weight as a normal person. For most regular folks I would suggest all sorts of different routines (HIIT, resistance training, LISS, ect.) combined with a good diet. When sports performance is the goal you need to come at weight loss differently. Your number one goal should still be training for your sport. With that in mind, I would focus on diet for your weight loss. 02-6611-0142-1 posted:This is a good series of articles on this: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-for-athletes-part-1.html This is a good series. I would intake a bit less protein than what this guy recommends, more like 1-1.5g per kg of body weight, but overall there are lots of good points covered. Biggest thing I would say is to start monitoring your calories and macro nutrients. If your weight is stable drop your calories, while making sure you get enough protein for your body weight and about 25% of your total calories from fat. Fill the rest in with carbs focused around around your workouts. Don't go to crazy with the weight loss. Loosing a pound or two a week is fine. In regards to weight training I would focus on maintaining strength and muscle mass, not different things to help you drop the pounds. Using KidDynamite as an example I would stick with the 5-3-1 basic exercises and then limit my accessory work a little. A couple of extra exercise done bodybuilding style (3 set/8-15 reps) after your main lifts. If you can workout multiple times a day put your weights in the mornings and then train your sport in the evening. This shouldn't effect you training too much, will maintain most of your strength as you drop weight classes, and shouldn't risk overtraining too much. One point about 5-3-1, there is a focus on overhead pressing which I love for regular populations, but a lot of times combat sport athletes have such rounded shoulders that this can cause issues. I would be ok dropping these if you have even the slightest issues. The biggest thing I would say is as long as your conditioning is up to snuff just try and train your sport often while maintaining a caloric deficit. Mechafunkzilla posted:Isometrics and upright rows. The reason isometrics aren't used more is that they only strength a muscle at the angle they are trained at. So if you do an isometric hold at 90 degrees you are only stronger a 90 degrees. That doesn't carry over to any kind of performance. You do see isometric work in regards to core training and that is because you want your core to be strong in that more neutral position, stopping lumbar movement. Upright rows are a pretty lovely movement (not saying you think they are awesome, I just want to bring this up). For a large majority of regular folks and almost all in combat sports you are risking massive shoulder impingement. If you absolutely have to do some sort of over head shoulder movement I would recommend neutral grip dumbbell shoulder press.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 22:06
|
|
|
Lt. Shiny-sides posted:The reason isometrics aren't used more is that they only strength a muscle at the angle they are trained at. So if you do an isometric hold at 90 degrees you are only stronger a 90 degrees. That doesn't carry over to any kind of performance. You do see isometric work in regards to core training and that is because you want your core to be strong in that more neutral position, stopping lumbar movement. Yeah, I was giving upright rows as an example of an exercise I don't do because of the shoulder strain. I think you'd also be surprised at how much isometric strength is involved in grappling, with things like clinches and positions and whatnot. Of course, iso work should be supplementary to regular lifting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 22:13
|
|
|
Upright rows are death to my shoulders, but I've used the karwoski row (an upright row to the navel) to work my upper back before without problems. Talking about OHP, benching has been more painful than pressing for years. I used to parrot the elitefts "OHP fucks your shoulders, 2 board press for life" party line, but welp  Lt. Shiny-sides posted:The biggest thing I would say is as long as your conditioning is up to snuff just try and train your sport often while maintaining a caloric deficit. Sounds simple enough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
Lt. Shiny-sides posted:The biggest thing I would say is as long as your conditioning is up to snuff just try and train your sport often while maintaining a caloric deficit. As a trainer, but not a scientist, it's glaringly loving obvious who's trying to lose weight at a deficit. Your training goes down the shitter so fast. vvvv: super pedantic poo poo like this is why I hate posting in this thread. I assumed he meant cutting caloric intake below what is recommended for one's height/weight/lifestyle ratio. countdown til someone whines about how inaccurate the ratio is... Guilty fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Feb 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 23:09
|
|
|
Guilty posted:As a trainer, but not a scientist, it's glaringly loving obvious who's trying to lose weight at a deficit. Your training goes down the shitter so fast. Isn't "lose weight at a deficit" a tautology? You can't exactly lose weight at a caloric surplus...
|
|
#
?
Feb 26, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:I think you'd also be surprised at how much isometric strength is involved in grappling, with things like clinches and positions and whatnot. Of course, iso work should be supplementary to regular lifting. I don't think I'd be that surprised. I have been involved in MMA since 2004 and wrestled before that. I have also trained MMA guys and elite grapplers. The issue with isometric work is that every clinch is different. Sometimes my elbow will be bent at 80 degrees fighting for an underhook and other times 110 degrees in wrist control. If I train isometrics at 90 degrees I will get no strength carry over to those two situations. Guilty posted:As a trainer, but not a scientist, it's glaringly loving obvious who's trying to lose weight at a deficit. Your training goes down the shitter so fast. If you are dropping your calories below homeostasis just enough to lose a pound or two a week your shouldn't see any major performance differences other than a plateau or eventual decreases in maximal strength. That is, until you become way too underweight. On the other hand if you a starving yourself I totally would expect (and have seen) guys fight/train like poo poo. As for your hate of this thread. Speaking for myself, I love your insights in the technical aspects of Muay Thai. You are clearly very knowledgeable. My issue (and I think others) is when you start posting about stuff not relating to technique it becomes obvious that you don't really know much about the topics. When corrected you become extremely defensive. I feel the need to point out your errors as many follow your advice regarding striking and may take your word on other issues when it is not in their best interest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 01:22
|
|
|
I wish I knew about this isometric stuff before this winter season...no wonder all the squats I've been doing did jack poo poo to improve my endurance holding a snowboarding stance. Although I do recover quicker than my fellow boarders. And thanks Shiny-sides, as a former researcher turned admin I appreciate all the science on fighting sports and such.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 02:13
|
|
|
Ari Bolden got his brown belt  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99_6dyso3k
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Guilty posted:As a trainer, but not a scientist, it's glaringly loving obvious who's trying to lose weight at a deficit. Your training goes down the shitter so fast. I came off a cut using the wrong method around September last year and you're right. That being said my trainer just gave me a new diet routine to try and I started this week, haven't had an issue rolling or sparring so far and that's at a caloric deficit. I'm training again tonight and apart from the usual stiffness and soreness I have no issue with my energy levels at all. People eat the wrong things at the wrong times when they're cutting or they get a stupid diet from some body building website that's designed for you to stand on stage in a g-string with too much spray on tan, not punch, scrap and work for an hour or two at a time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:35
|
|
|
Dolce has his guys loading up on carbs and everyone is jogging again. I'm about ready to trade in my under armour for some lavender warmups and a pair of reebok high tops.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:45
|
|
|
As a 30-something dude who's never done a martial art before, I've spontaneously developed an interest over the last couple weeks. Does anyone have any recommendations for the Ottawa, Ontario area? I'm knee-deep in research right now. Being a former (middling) fencer, the idea of JKD has some appeal, but the Ottawa-area clubs I've found don't inspire a lot of confidence.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:51
|
|
|
Pfox posted:As a 30-something dude who's never done a martial art before, I've spontaneously developed an interest over the last couple weeks. Is JKD jeet kun do? Because if it is, you should forget it and do something real like kickboxing
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:54
|
|
|
Do Kyokushin, I understand it's like fencing with no swords and no head shots.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:55
|
|
|
Pfox posted:As a 30-something dude who's never done a martial art before, I've spontaneously developed an interest over the last couple weeks. Dont do Jeet kune do my man. JKD isnt really anything, its Bruce lee's made up martial art but it was basically philosophically just a precursor to Mixed Martial Arts. If bruce lee was alive now JKD would probably look more or less like MMA, but every JKD club Ive seen is a bunch of dorks doing stuff from kung fu movies and occasionally biting each other or hitting each other in the dick (no rules!!!) What are you interested in getting out of a martial art? Fitness, competition, self-defense, tradition/culture? It's easier to recommend something to you if you know what you're trying to get out of it. There are tons of good clubs around ottawa too
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 04:56
|
|
|
manyak posted:occasionally biting each other or hitting each other in the dick (no rules!!!) On second thought this sounds pretty fuckin cool
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 05:05
|
|
|
manyak posted:Dont do Jeet kune do my man. JKD isnt really anything, its Bruce lee's made up martial art but it was basically philosophically just a precursor to Mixed Martial Arts. If bruce lee was alive now JKD would probably look more or less like MMA, but every JKD club Ive seen is a bunch of dorks doing stuff from kung fu movies and occasionally biting each other or hitting each other in the dick (no rules!!!) That's what I was afraid of. I have no compunctions about doing some dude's made up martial art, but it would need to be with people who aren't living out their live-action D&D fantasies. I'm at a point in my life where I don't have time for competitions, so this would primarily be for a fitnessy thing to do between lift days. Something with a competitive underpinning would be nice, in case I really dig it and find myself with more personal time. Also, stop-hits. It should have stop-hits.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 05:10
|
|
|
Pfox posted:Also, stop-hits. It should have stop-hits. I'm not saying stop-hits don't work, but you'd have to be so much better than your opponent for them to be consistently effective. They are also much harder to use when you're gloved (like you ought to be for safe striking training).
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 05:59
|
|
|
Google let me down, what the hell are stop-hits?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
Ashenai posted:Google let me down, what the hell are stop-hits?  Basically it's a counter-attack that lands before the originally attack. In the picture above, left is the original attacker, but is interrupted by right and the original lunge doesn't land.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
Pfox posted:
Based on that description i think that will happen in any real striking art. When you said stop hits i thought you meant something along the lines of 'trap hands' like Wing Chun/JKD guys (i.e. bruce lee) liked to do, which would be harder to find. If you are looking for something that will get you in shape and you want it to be fairly competitive then I have to recommend the standards, boxing or muay thai if you want to do striking, and judo or BJJ if you want to try grappling. An MMA gym will have both but unless youre lucky you will get about half the level of instruction of each so youre better off just starting out picking one. Those are the main arts that have any kind of real competitive base and are popular enough that you can go compete at various levels of expertise if you want to. Since people can compete and you have to train "live" gyms usually develop a reputation and its a lot less likely that a boxing/BJJ gym will be a money making scam like 80% of Karate dojos. Almost any good gym will offer you a trial class or a trial period or at least will let you sit and watch a class so go and try some out and see what you think. It almost matters more that you find a gym where you can get along with the people and enjoy the atmosphere rather than what style you train. And dont write off grappling, because lots of people think theyll hate it and then eventually learn to love rolling around with sweaty men, touching their asses, etc and its fun
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 06:45
|
|
|
Pfox posted:As a 30-something dude who's never done a martial art before, I've spontaneously developed an interest over the last couple weeks. What do you want out of it? Are you looking to get into the more philosophical side of it?. "Self-defence"?. Competitive? (At 30, it'll be a struggle in most arts). Having said that, I've seen a fair amount of fencers successfully transfer into kendo and even become quite competitive too. (Obviously I'm biased towards kendo). You'll have to unlearn a lot of stuff, but the core skills are remarkably similar.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 07:03
|
|
|
I think there are strong similarities between boxing and fencing. Footwork doesn't seem to be world's apart, there's distance control involved and you've different elevations or head/body attacks to think about. They seem historically linked and there used to be more common cross-training between the two. Plus if you're right handed, and subsequently led with your right hand in fencing you could get the bonus of coming into boxing as a southpaw. I don't fence but I have a couple friends who were fencers and now box and they always say fencing helped them pick up boxing as quickly as they did.
SlyUses fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Feb 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 07:29
|
|
|
I showed a fencer some boxing fundamentals once, and nothing worked until I said to use his sword hand as lead (in front) instead of power (in the rear). Then he could jab with speed, power, and great timing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 07:46
|
|
|
ImplicitAssembler posted:Competitive? (At 30, it'll be a struggle in most arts). There have been 30+ beginner divisions at every large grappling tournament I've ever been to. Do grappling!
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 07:56
|
|
|
Counterpoint: I was a pretty good fencer in high school and I am a sack of farts at boxing
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 12:08
|
|
|
Whose genius idea was it to start teaching all the fencers how to box anyway, now they're going to be running all over the place stabbing people with their fists and punching with swords. Total anarchy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 14:42
|
|
|
I used to train at a JKD gym and it was just Muay Thai, no-gi jiujitsu, and Kali classes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 16:47
|
|
|
Fat Twitter Man posted:I used to train at a JKD gym and it was just Muay Thai, no-gi jiujitsu, and Kali classes. that was a good JDK gym then. The bad ones are really, really bad because they manage to ditch both tradition and effectiveness. So it really is just dancing around doing "kung fu" moves someone made up yesterday.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 16:57
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:that was a good JDK gym then. The bad ones are really, really bad because they manage to ditch both tradition and effectiveness. So it really is just dancing around doing "kung fu" moves someone made up yesterday. Dancing around doing made-up kung fu moves sounds like a lot of fun though...
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 16:59
|
|
|
Share hilarious retarded YouTube vids! http://youtu.be/i5UFB5Chwgo Seems legit. If you're fighting a boxer, just push his hands back into his eyes and you will win.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:19
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:Dancing around doing made-up kung fu moves sounds like a lot of fun though... Then you really want to do Capoeira.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:24
|
|
|
gimpsuitjones posted:Share hilarious retarded YouTube vids! The best part is the conversation in the comments, where someone points out this would never work on a boxer who's resisting, and the video's poster responds "this is not meant for someone who is resistant." So yeah, good technique to use on sleeping boxers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:27
|
|
|
FreakyMetalKid posted:Then you really want to do Capoeira. I don't get to dramatically wipe my nose with my thumb in Capoeira though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:28
|
|
|
http://youtu.be/_jjTamEoxxU Krav Maga! Or bad kickboxing. I can't tell the difference!
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:46
|
|
|
gimpsuitjones posted:http://youtu.be/_jjTamEoxxU Bad, but hey, it's unscripted sparring with contact, which is already better than the Krav Maga schools I've heard of. My 55-year old boss does Krav Maga and is currently enjoying his midlife crisis, and watching him show off his mad knife defense moves to every female receptionist and junior consultant in the office is incredibly funny.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 17:58
|
|
|
http://youtu.be/MiG2UXu73l4 I think I could qualify for a KM black belt?
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 18:00
|
|
|
gimpsuitjones posted:http://youtu.be/MiG2UXu73l4 Those spin kicks 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:04 |
|
|
Ashenai posted:Those spin kicks So hilariously telegraphed. Wait til you get to the grappling! I could do this all day http://youtu.be/Fz3b4kd7Dt4 http://youtu.be/tfCcpyqO4Io gimpsuitjones fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2013 18:06
|
|