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So this thing was just brought to my attention for the first time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_(Famicom) Was an English version ever made?
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Feb 28, 2013 17:34
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:08 |
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13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. I will say anyone who told me it has better combat than 13 is a dirty, dirty liar who should feel bad and sleep poorly at night with the weight of their deceitful sins. On to X-2, my marathon of cash-in sequels and unloved FFs continues 
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Feb 28, 2013 18:41
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I was actually getting pretty into FFXIII and having a lot of fun with it, but then I had to send my PS3 in for repairs and all my save data was erased. I don't think I'm ever going to finish it now. The thoughts of walking through the hours of tutorial corridors a second time is just too much. 
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Feb 28, 2013 18:44
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Ironically I went in to 13 expecting to tolerate it at best and came out enjoying it on the other end. 13-2 was the opposite experience.
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Feb 28, 2013 18:55
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victrix posted:Ironically I went in to 13 expecting to tolerate it at best and came out enjoying it on the other end. 13-2 was the opposite experience. Pretty much the same here. The thing was, all the good things about XIII-2 were dropped over the course of the game. I don't remember ever getting any dialogue choices in the second half, and there was no reason to capture and upgrade monsters when ones you catch in the first area are good enough to carry you through the game. The only reason why I'm looking forward to Lightning Returns is because it steals ideas from Majora's Mask.
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Feb 28, 2013 19:18
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victrix posted:13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. The combat is exactly the same, except it doesn't take 20 hours to unlock, and one of your characters is three monsters. What is the big problem?
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Feb 28, 2013 19:44
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victrix posted:Ironically I went in to 13 expecting to tolerate it at best and came out enjoying it on the other end.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:15
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Tempo 119 posted:The combat is exactly the same, except it doesn't take 20 hours to unlock, and one of your characters is three monsters. What is the big problem? Also you don't immediately get a Game Over screen when the character under player control gets KO.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:23
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victrix posted:13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. The combat IS better, but the difficulty of enemy encounters is not outside of a few end-game secret fights and DLC. I still loved the game overall, it's much better than 13.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:36
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I have to say I really enjoy Terra's and Cecil's games as my favorites from the numbered series, but I have an incredible soft spot for 12. I've beaten it so many times... I wish that Zodiac Edition with the class boards would get a NA release. Basch is such an awesome example of a knightly character despite his goofy wardrobe. That being said, my true love is FFT. Across so many playthroughs, War of the Lions, fan-made difficulty hacks... there is no FF game that is as fun to break to smithereens over your knee as this game. I hated FFTA 1 and 2, and would give Squeenix All The Money to get a true sequel. Honestly, I loved Vagrant Story, too. I guess I just really like Ivalice.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:47
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Firstborn posted:I have to say I really enjoy Terra's and Cecil's games as my favorites from the numbered series, but I have an incredible soft spot for 12. I've beaten it so many times... I wish that Zodiac Edition with the class boards would get a NA release. Basch is such an awesome example of a knightly character despite his goofy wardrobe. No shame in that. Ivalice is undoubtedly the best-realized world in the series, which I admit doesn't exactly say a lot.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:53
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If you haven't, get thee hither over to Tactics Ogre PSP - if you haven't played it and you loved all of Matsunos other games, you need to play it now.
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Feb 28, 2013 20:57
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Tactics Ogre doesn't have quite the same charm for me. Although it is nice to be able to move, realize your attacks are out of range, and cancel that movement.
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Feb 28, 2013 21:11
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victrix posted:13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. The combat is exactly the same as 13 except enemies don't take 10 minutes to kill. 13-2 is an more playable version of 13 with a dumber plot.
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Feb 28, 2013 22:03
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victrix posted:13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. If you pretend the special potions don't exist, it's EXTREMELY better. It REQUIRES you to rush through the plot, though.
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Feb 28, 2013 23:37
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Aureon posted:If you pretend the special potions don't exist, it's EXTREMELY better. I did rush through and still had a stupidly, mindlessly easy time. I think I spent 95% of my fights in com/rav/rav or com/com/com :| Com-X was broken as gently caress. At least the last fight was tough I guess! 95% might even be an over-exaggeration in favor of the 5%, I really can't think of many battles where I had to use a syn or a sab, the few hard hitters were easily mitigated by a quick sen/med switch and back again. It was a real letdown after the endgame of 13, I'll put it that way The rest of it, well, yeah. Like I said, don't want to waste the words
victrix fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 23:43
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The combat is exactly the same as 13 except enemies don't take 10 minutes to kill. 13-2 is an more playable version of 13 with a dumber plot. Enemies don't take 10 minutes to kill in FFXIII either. That's part of why FFXIII-2 is not really fun. People who absolutely refused to learn the mechanics of FFXIII ended up getting a game where they didn't have to do that. Anyone who did just got to steamroll everything in the entire game. The basic mechanics are the same but the design is infinitely worse. It really shouldn't be that way but a lot of the mechanics just end up worthless or boring because they made it so you don't even have to bother to understand how anything works. The fact that the only way to come close to a fun fight is to pay money for DLC is like the icing on the cake. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Feb 28, 2013 |
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Feb 28, 2013 23:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The combat is exactly the same as 13 except enemies don't take 10 minutes to kill. 13-2 is an more playable version of 13 with a dumber plot. If oyu actually have to take 10 minutes to kill normal enemies in 13 you're doing something wrong.
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Feb 28, 2013 23:49
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victrix posted:13-2 was an abomination. I'm not even going to spend the words to describe all the reasons it was awful. victrix posted:Ironically I went in to 13 expecting to tolerate it at best and came out enjoying it on the other end. 13-2 was the opposite experience. Uhm, all the reasons the combat sucked in 13 were mostly fixed in 13-2, at least the bad parts anyways. The reasons were stated by other posters pretty succinctly. victrix posted:I did rush through and still had a stupidly, mindlessly easy time. Head Hit Keyboard posted:If oyu actually have to take 10 minutes to kill normal enemies in 13 you're doing something wrong. Except for Long Gui.
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Mar 1, 2013 00:27
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Except for Long Gui. I wouldn't classify Long Gui as a normal enemy by any stretch of the imagination. He's as much a "normal enemy" as WarMech is in FF1.
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Mar 1, 2013 00:45
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FF13 was balanced but took way too long to introduce its mechanics and let you customize your characters. FF13-2 took little time letting you do whatever you wanted with the gameplay system, but they didn't really balance it that well, thus leading to a majority of the game being too easy if you do enough side stuff. Then again, FF games are usually hit-or-miss in terms of difficulty and pacing anyway.
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Mar 1, 2013 02:17
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Mega64 posted:FF13 was balanced but took way too long to introduce its mechanics and let you customize your characters. FF13-2 took little time letting you do whatever you wanted with the gameplay system, but they didn't really balance it that well, thus leading to a majority of the game being too easy if you do enough side stuff. RPGs seem so hard to balance. Sometimes it feels like 90% of people that play RPGs only know to grind and level up to brute force things. I think as long as a game has the ability to get through content by just grinding more people will often take that path rather than playing the game. I still see people describing all kinds of games as "grindy" where the content is clearly supposed to be taken at the level range you are when you reach there normally, even the optional content. Like, if anything presents any challenge of any time the NES part of people's brains flip on and say "welp, I guess I should walk in a circle and level up till pressing attack beats this".
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Mar 1, 2013 02:36
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I don't know if they are that hard to balance, because some games (eg. Persona) manage to balance the combat really well without really using anything complicated. Maybe what's hard is to create new and original ways to make balanced battle systems when people are usually satisfied with something that's really standard
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Mar 1, 2013 02:42
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I don't think there's actually anything inherently wrong with the option to grind in an RPG and trivialize content. For some people raising their characters to the point where previously difficult content is easy to blow through is very gratifying, and going at least back to the SNES days it's never been a goal of Final Fantasy from a thematic or design perspective to be a super-challenging game; Final Fantasy is a mainstream series primarily concerned with lush audiovisual experiences and experimentation with JRPG mechanics. Making a game challenging 100% of the time for hardcore series fans just makes it impossibly difficult for casual gamers and genre newbies, and this series is pretty notable as a "gateway drug" JRPG. Doing away with difficulty selection (of which grinding is one form), means you have to deny somebody what they want. When it fulfils some greater artistic aim or is being made for a niche market, that's fine. FF isn't trying to be either of those things. Paperhouse posted:I don't know if they are that hard to balance, because some games (eg. Persona) manage to balance the combat really well without really using anything complicated. Maybe what's hard is to create new and original ways to make balanced battle systems when people are usually satisfied with something that's really standard Persona 4 has one of the most wildly uneven difficulty curves of any JRPG I've played in years, one of the first bosses in the game is among its most difficult and gave me a lot of trouble even as somebody who plays a ton of JRPGs and beat P3:FES. Most of the Persona games are pretty well-balanced (with some exceptions) for experienced JRPG players, but Final Fantasy has a broader appeal. Baku fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 02:47
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I have no problem with grinding as a basic idea but I dislike it when it is trivial enough to do that you can do it simply by playing the game normally. It's one thing to make a conscious decision to spend an hour grinding up levels. It's another to end up too powerful just because you dared to do something besides rush ahead at mach 10 and ignore all optional content.
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Mar 1, 2013 03:01
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Xavier434 posted:So this thing was just brought to my attention for the first time: Apparently so, but it largely has the same script. There's a mini-LP of it going on in the LP FF7 thread.
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Mar 1, 2013 03:08
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victrix posted:If you haven't, get thee hither over to Tactics Ogre PSP - if you haven't played it and you loved all of Matsunos other games, you need to play it now. Playing the original is good too. Especially if you like to break a game inside and out. Nothing trivializes a game like Animate->Retissue->repeat->Snapdragon->equip on someone with Dragon Magic. Yeah you need to go through Hell Gate to get most of that, but even just having Wipeout and Starion lets you unload battlefield-wide attacks from two characters. Just remember to give some MP items to faster characters so they can get going on the first round. Then you have the Shamans and their forbidden magic, gunners with their infinite range, Haborym's ungodly high accuracy with spells like petrify...etc. Even the 'summon' spells can turn in to a 10-hit attack on single targets for 400+ damage if aimed right. Most of this isn't in the PSP version IIRC. Tactics Ogre is so drat good. Playing that really shows FFT's roots well.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:10
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ImpAtom posted:I have no problem with grinding as a basic idea but I dislike it when it is trivial enough to do that you can do it simply by playing the game normally. It's one thing to make a conscious decision to spend an hour grinding up levels. It's another to end up too powerful just because you dared to do something besides rush ahead at mach 10 and ignore all optional content. Actually I rushed through everything as fast I could, and it was super easy until the very end when it got way too hard fast, and I had to switch to easy because one of the final boss' attacks could wipe my team from full HP while all in Sentinal. ...I didn't care for XIII-2.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:24
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ImpAtom posted:I have no problem with grinding as a basic idea but I dislike it when it is trivial enough to do that you can do it simply by playing the game normally. It's one thing to make a conscious decision to spend an hour grinding up levels. It's another to end up too powerful just because you dared to do something besides rush ahead at mach 10 and ignore all optional content. This is a completely valid point, and it's actually the reason FF6 is so easy; I've posted about it in this thread before but basically the completely open-ended nature of the World of Ruin means that if they want a hundred sidequests with rewards, they either have to make the game easy for people who do everything or difficult for people who don't. When Final Fantasy has to make those decisions, I think it's wise of them to err on the side of making it easy for people who do everything, which is in fact part of why some people do everything; the whole point of Knights of the Round is to render everything except sort of the optional bosses trivial, and the point of optional bosses is to provide a challenge for people who minmax and play for 100% completion. I agree that it leads to problems sometimes, and while I haven't played enough 13-2 to be sure yet I'll take your and others' word for it as an issue there. And in that specific case, they should have erred on the side of challenge if only because the majority of 13-2 players are probably people who played FF13 and liked it enough to buy a sequel, people already familiar with the core mechanics. In a broader sense I'm not sure what the solution to the ultimate problem is. FF13 tried to solve it by putting a ton of arbitrary restrictions on your abilities and giving you absolutely no optional content for most of the game (and none which presented overpowering rewards or challenges ever), and that didn't go over very well with players.
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Mar 1, 2013 04:34
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Granted I played it when I was 12, but as I recall Chrono Trigger was pretty well balanced. The final boss was a threat even if you had the super weapons at the end of the game, and throughout the game the difficulty felt just right without being bullshit. Maybe I just didn't know about the broken stuff, though.
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Mar 1, 2013 07:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:RPGs seem so hard to balance. Sometimes it feels like 90% of people that play RPGs only know to grind and level up to brute force things. I think as long as a game has the ability to get through content by just grinding more people will often take that path rather than playing the game. I still see people describing all kinds of games as "grindy" where the content is clearly supposed to be taken at the level range you are when you reach there normally, even the optional content. Like, if anything presents any challenge of any time the NES part of people's brains flip on and say "welp, I guess I should walk in a circle and level up till pressing attack beats this". A lot of games still force you to grind. The Last Remnant is purportedly some kind of strategic RPG (based on how you can customize groups and attacks) but there are definitely some walls the game throws at you that force you to grind for a few hours before you're allowed to progress. It's stupid and annoying when you can blow up any trash mobs on the world map but one boss can totally gently caress you up in 5 turns.
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Mar 1, 2013 07:46
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1st AD posted:A lot of games still force you to grind. The Last Remnant is purportedly some kind of strategic RPG (based on how you can customize groups and attacks) but there are definitely some walls the game throws at you that force you to grind for a few hours before you're allowed to progress. It's stupid and annoying when you can blow up any trash mobs on the world map but one boss can totally gently caress you up in 5 turns. I never had to grind until I reached the final boss, so YMMV.
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Mar 1, 2013 07:48
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I got stuck on one boss, I forget where but it was at a point in the story where you storm some fortress. Getting in was easy, but the boss inside had loving pistols and one-shotted all my dudes. It was annoying.
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Mar 1, 2013 07:51
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The Fallen and optional bosses (Fallen is one, but despawns if you don't do it before final boss) are the only grindy battles, tbh.
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Mar 1, 2013 14:05
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MrAristocrates posted:Seeq aren't as bad as the Garif, which have an extremely low spawn rate in one specific area of Ozmone Plain. They're goddamn impossible to find. Seeq are probably the second easiest humanoid race to fill out the bestiary for (the first being Baknamy) since they appear two at a time in Mosphoran Highwaste in two areas I think. Garif are hard to spawn and only show up in one area and one at a time, so they're the worst for sure. Bangaa are pretty hard to find too, definitely the second worst. Evil Fluffy posted:Tactics Ogre is so drat good. Playing that really shows FFT's roots well. I've only played one Tactics Ogre game, Knight of Lodis. I remember thinking it was okay, but ultimately I lost interest in it and traded it to a friend for something else. Is it just not as good as the other Tactics Ogre games or something?
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Mar 1, 2013 15:59
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1st AD posted:A lot of games still force you to grind. The Last Remnant is purportedly some kind of strategic RPG (based on how you can customize groups and attacks) but there are definitely some walls the game throws at you that force you to grind for a few hours before you're allowed to progress. It's stupid and annoying when you can blow up any trash mobs on the world map but one boss can totally gently caress you up in 5 turns. I played that game start to finish and never felt like there was anywhere I needed to particularly grind. That game had a ton of systems though so I bet that is exactly what I'm talking about, you were probably strong enough to beat the boss but assumed you had not ground enough. I don't think you are even dumb, I honestly think that there is a ton of gamers that have been conditioned that "die in RPG = grind more" instead of 'master the gameplay more'. Grinding as an option is fine but it seems like a lot of people don't know they are picking one option, and never really learn to play the game they are playing and just declare it's "grindy" which is typically said as a thing they DIDN'T like about the game instead of someone choosing to grind as a deliberate choice to power through things.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:05
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Twelve by Pies posted:I've only played one Tactics Ogre game, Knight of Lodis. I remember thinking it was okay, but ultimately I lost interest in it and traded it to a friend for something else. Is it just not as good as the other Tactics Ogre games or something? Not really. It was done by another team, and was sloooooooow. It also told a very small side story. TO for the PSP is a (wonderful) remake of the original game. It's fast as hell and has some really genius features - you can rewind combat any time you want up to 50 steps, and extending on that meta feature, once you beat the game, you can rewind time to any point in the branching story and play a different path. It also has an obscene amount of content. Just doing one branch of the story can be 20-40 hours or so. Doing everything is usually 100+
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Mar 1, 2013 16:16
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It's been so long since I played FFT, is it remotely necessary to steal all of Elmdor's gear? I kind of just want to blaze through these two battles and not have to micromanage accessories and poo poo to survive long enough to steal it all.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:34
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pretend to care posted:It's been so long since I played FFT, is it remotely necessary to steal all of Elmdor's gear? I kind of just want to blaze through these two battles and not have to micromanage accessories and poo poo to survive long enough to steal it all. Not necessary at all. It's some of the best armor in the game, but you can easily beat the rest of the game without it. He can be a pain in the rear end to kill even in vanilla FFT. I always went straight for Elmdor with high magic like Flare and Knight Sword skills while ignoring the 2 assassins.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:48
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:08 |
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It's only as necessary as you make it. That is to say, if you can live with yourself after letting those missable disappear forever. 
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Mar 1, 2013 16:49
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