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Red_Mage posted:I loving hate you you ban happy son of a bitch. Beans don't belong in loving chili and even if they loving did they don't come out of a loving can. Also what the gently caress is this chili powder poo poo. I know where you loving live, go down to the hispanic store and buy some christ forsaken peppers. Furthermore and while you are at it use fresh tomatos god loving drat you goony sperg. It's even better the next day once the flavors have had a chance to really blend. Splicer posted:By "Buying it" do you mean "purchasing" or do you mean "believing the "it's like 4E!" bullshit"? Pretty sure he means the latter. The refrain of "Next is throwing 4E under the bus" would almost be some annoying kneejerk thing except, well, it's pretty hard at this stage to point at anything in Next and go "this, right here, is what Next has taken from 4E." I don't really know if that's how the universal D&D that Next has been billed at is even supposed to work...here's the chunk from 2E, here's the bit from 3E, here's the 4E part, here's a dash of BECMI, etc...but at the moment it's not really too clear what the appeal of Next is supposed to be if you're a fan of 4E. It's not even enough to say "well maybe they'll make a module for combat on a grid!" because grid combat isn't the be-all end-all of why people like 4E any more than, I dunno, freeform multiclassing is the be-all end-all of why people like 3E. It's definitely a reason, but it ignores a lot of other important things along the way. And if WotC has determined that the way to fabulous D&D riches is to move away from 4E and back towards other things that's their prerogative and I wish them the best of luck, but I also wish I got a more...enthusiastic feeling off of all the Next stuff? Like, say what you will about 3E and 4E but both editions felt like things that the people making them were really loving excited about, you guys are gonna love this poo poo oh man it will be so amazing. Even if Next turns out to be a game I dislike I'd rather it be something people are super loving enthusiastic about, I dunno. Old Kentucky Shark, you're a Kentucky man. While I know that real life is not like Justified, they keep name-dropping Pappy Van Winkle bourbon on the show and I'm wondering if you've ever had it before. Is it worth looking into acquiring a bottle?
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Mar 2, 2013 18:26
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Ulta posted:I have three points, in order of importance. I'd highly recommend a drink called 'Rum Chata', an alcoholic drink based on horchata. It is an abosolutely delicious dessert liqueur, and it tastes like cinnamon toast crunch. It fits both "dessert" and "cordial". I'd recommend bringing two fifths though; one for you, and one for everyone else.
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Mar 2, 2013 19:35
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I'd like to go back to cast iron skillets for a second. Specifically, the warrior monk character Yang's wife in Final Fantasy 4 could give you a frying pan. Will monks in D&D Next be able to use frying pans as a weapon? And second, will they have to get them from their wives? What if I play a monk that is female or homosexual? Does that lock me out of the frying pan option?
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Mar 2, 2013 19:42
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Kai Tave posted:Old Kentucky Shark, you're a Kentucky man. While I know that real life is not like Justified, they keep name-dropping Pappy Van Winkle bourbon on the show and I'm wondering if you've ever had it before. Is it worth looking into acquiring a bottle? Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 20:25
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Splicer posted:By "Buying it" do you mean "purchasing" or do you mean "believing the "it's like 4E!" bullshit"? The latter, as moths and Kai have said. Kai Tave posted:And if WotC has determined that the way to fabulous D&D riches is to move away from 4E and back towards other things that's their prerogative and I wish them the best of luck, but I also wish I got a more...enthusiastic feeling off of all the Next stuff? Like, say what you will about 3E and 4E but both editions felt like things that the people making them were really loving excited about, you guys are gonna love this poo poo oh man it will be so amazing. Even if Next turns out to be a game I dislike I'd rather it be something people are super loving enthusiastic about, I dunno. This is why I stopped updating the old OP and why the old thread died. I don't hate 5e. I'm bored of it. Nothing about 5e interests me. Nothing about it makes my eyebrows raise or makes me want to look into it deeper. I mean, I was actually pretty drat anti-4e when it came out, but it still made a scene. It made me pay attention. 3e and 4e both (sorry, too young for when 2e first came out!) were statements. 5e so far is a whimper. This is also what I see happening on other forums. People are losing interest rapidly. 5e has declared it won't do anything new. It's the ultra conservative edition where nothing changes. And as a result, it has a few people idly commenting on it when news comes out, but there's no excitement. Even on the forums that 5e appears to be tailor made for, people are rarely commenting on 5e, and far more often just being drawn into the same edition war bullshit that just uses 5e as an excuse to get going.
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Mar 3, 2013 01:00
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I figure it will stay a whimper until maybe this time next year, when you are gonna see a full court press of marketing on the ROAD TO GENCON for the release. I am assuming it will be released at GenCon of next year, anyway. This huge lead is so silly. On a related note, I just knocked back two sammiches of crock pot pulled pork. Holy poo poo, those were good.
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Mar 3, 2013 01:47
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There are a handful of "might be neat" things in 5e- I like the idea of turning most status effects into advantage/disadvantage, I like that they're aiming for a core that's as basic as Basic D&D was even if they're going about it the wrong way, etc. But yeah, nothing's really sizzling. When 3e (which even in light of its flaws I'll never bring myself to fully hate) came out, my reaction was "Wow! I've got so many more options! I can make an elven paladin, a dwarf wizard, everyone advances the same, wizards get more than one spell to start," and so on. With 4e it was "Wow, this is a lot easier and makes more sense! Look at all the neat abilities!" Etc. 5e doesn't show me anything I can't already do. There is no sizzle. It might be an okay game but it offers nothing new.
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Mar 3, 2013 01:49
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Winson_Paine posted:I figure it will stay a whimper until maybe this time next year, when you are gonna see a full court press of marketing on the ROAD TO GENCON for the release. I am assuming it will be released at GenCon of next year, anyway. This huge lead is so silly. Did you make your own sauce for this or just use something out of a bottle? If the former, I'd love to see the recipe. Been trying my own for a week or two, haven't found anything I love yet.
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Mar 3, 2013 01:53
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CaptCommy posted:Did you make your own sauce for this or just use something out of a bottle? If the former, I'd love to see the recipe. Been trying my own for a week or two, haven't found anything I love yet. I tend to vary what I do for the rub, but it generally goes like... a tablespoon of chili powder, salt, and brown sugar each. After that? powdered garlic, black pepper, cinnamon, whatever I happen to have on hand and smells good. Rub your pork shoulder with that poo poo, let it sit for awhile in the fridge, and then crank your oven to 500 or so and throw your rubbed pork in there. You want the oven stupid hot, because you are looking to carmelize and char, not cook. After a half hour or so in the oven when you have some cooked bits on the outside, throw it in your crock pot with a chopped up onion and some garlic. Use beer or chicken stock in there, maybe a cup or so. Cook that poo poo on low for a few hours, flip it after two or three. Make sure your liquid doesn't get to low. I just eat it like that, although this time I threw some sauce on top for grins.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:02
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Winson_Paine posted:I figure it will stay a whimper until maybe this time next year, when you are gonna see a full court press of marketing on the ROAD TO GENCON for the release. I am assuming it will be released at GenCon of next year, anyway. This huge lead is so silly. This huge lead is really, really puzzling. Like, WotC is banking on a tiny handful of releases and reprints being good enough to keep their elfgame department afloat until Next drops. I am not a smarty-man business major or anything but that seems incredibly loving weird to me. I guess there's DDI too, but this seems a lot like quitting your job and then deciding "hey, maybe I should look for another job?" I know that some people think this means the next year is Paizo's chance to dominate the market and usher in a new era of elfgaming, but I can't help but feel that as D&D goes so goes the retailer elfgame market. WotC could loving file chapter 11 tomorrow (not that they will, Magic is huge money, but work with me) and it wouldn't kill the elfgame hobby what with social networking, self-publishers, Kickstarter, et al...but if we're talking "putting books on shelves, selling poo poo in stores" then I'm honestly kind of curious whether the big brand name in pretend-elf going mostly digital reprints and DDI subscriptions for the next year won't have some sort of knock-on cooling effect on the retail side of the hobby. I mean, I don't care, it's not like I own stock or anything, I'm just wondering how this will play out. Or maybe nobody else will care either, who can say. Maxwell Lord posted:There are a handful of "might be neat" things in 5e- I like the idea of turning most status effects into advantage/disadvantage, I like that they're aiming for a core that's as basic as Basic D&D was even if they're going about it the wrong way, etc. But yeah, nothing's really sizzling. I actually kind of dislike the whole advantage/disadvantage thing because it's pretty thoroughly binary and has no nuance to speak of, which I guess is fine for people who are into ultra simplified stuff but to me it just feels kind of ehhhhhhhh, and also it's swingy as hell or it was the last time I messed with Next where it felt like the game was D&D: Find Ways to Gain Advantage Edition. I don't need an exhaustive list of status effects to enjoy an RPG, but I feel like the ad/disad system isn't very fun. I think the most interesting trick arrow Next has in its arsenal is actually the Expertise Die setup they keep tinkering with. Expertise Dice could, in theory, be a really interesting and fun mechanic, but like everything in Next the developers keep flailing around when it comes to how they're going to implement it. There's no real driving vision behind it, it feels like...it's just "well people like rolling dice, so here's some dice. Maybe you can spend them to do cool things, or maybe you can spend them to do more damage, we aren't sure. Maybe they'll be Fighter only, or nope, maybe we'll give them to all these other classes. Maybe we'll change them again later, who can say." But in theory Expertise Dice could be rad as hell, they could be the basis for an entirely new way of designing D&D classes the way that 4E's unified AEDU structure was.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:03
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I would love to see expertise dice be a unifying concept, it seems that casters would be able to fun with the design space. For instance, a mage class built around using expertise dice to craft effects in a freeform manner but maybe tied to one of a few keywords you choose for your mage. Or a wizard who gets a bunch of relatively generic spells but can metamagic them with expertise dice. Or a druid who can take on aspects of creatures and nature, gradually being able to do more as she has more dice to play around with. Or any of the many other takes on using expertise dice as part of a core mechanic for a class. Sadly, I have little faith in the Next team's ability to create those without being abusable and/or worthless.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:16
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SilverMike posted:I would love to see expertise dice be a unifying concept, it seems that casters would be able to fun with the design space. For instance, a mage class built around using expertise dice to craft effects in a freeform manner but maybe tied to one of a few keywords you choose for your mage. Or a wizard who gets a bunch of relatively generic spells but can metamagic them with expertise dice. Or a druid who can take on aspects of creatures and nature, gradually being able to do more as she has more dice to play around with. Or any of the many other takes on using expertise dice as part of a core mechanic for a class. Sadly, I have little faith in the Next team's ability to create those without being abusable and/or worthless. Well, the bigger stumbling block to using Expertise Dice in a unified fashion like that is the audience that WotC is courting recoils from anything that smacks of unified class design. Remember, in 4E all classes were literally the same class because they all had the same progression of abilities and therefore Fighters = Wizards and everything is ruined forever. But beyond that I totally agree that ED could be a great core mechanic for designing classes around, but that it would require way better design and a willingness to ignore the outcry of angry fair-weather fans in order to do it and I don't think the Next team is full of that at the moment. Also, to be honest, I don't have a vast amount of faith in the ability of the Next design team to deliver stellar mechanics even if they were willing to ignore the outrage. It's possible I'm being horribly unfair but between Iron Heroes and his captain's-chair work on 4E, I've come to the opinion that Mike Mearls is a decent idea man but not really the guy you want in charge and that his ability to follow through on things is actually pretty lackluster. I don't know the guy, I'm not saying he ran over my dog, I just don't feel like he is a super-exceptional elfgame designer.
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Mar 3, 2013 03:27
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Kai Tave posted:angry fair-weather fans
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Mar 3, 2013 05:18
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Winson_Paine posted:I myself endorse very few things, but recommend Snake Juice. It is delicious.
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Mar 3, 2013 05:59
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I really liked 4e, and was looking forward to the next iteration on the formula ironing out some of the kinks, but fell out of rpgs for a while so didn't really see much about Next till now. It looks like total bullshit. Meat related, I recently was made aware that kangaroo has higher chance of salmonella contamination than other red meats due to the killing process(out in the field rather than in an abbatoir), this is especially a problem since you generally eat it pretty rare. So now I think I will stick to slow cooking it in things like curries rather than doing it on a hotplate.
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Mar 3, 2013 06:28
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Kai Tave posted:This huge lead is really, really puzzling. Like, WotC is banking on a tiny handful of releases and reprints being good enough to keep their elfgame department afloat until Next drops. I am not a smarty-man business major or anything but that seems incredibly loving weird to me. I guess there's DDI too, but this seems a lot like quitting your job and then deciding "hey, maybe I should look for another job?" I'm convinced they wanted it to be done this year, but early playtests showed them they had a LONG way to go. Monte Cook's departure was probably an indication of some larger discord and I wouldn't be surprised if they started again from square one after that. quote:I actually kind of dislike the whole advantage/disadvantage thing because it's pretty thoroughly binary and has no nuance to speak of, which I guess is fine for people who are into ultra simplified stuff but to me it just feels kind of ehhhhhhhh, and also it's swingy as hell or it was the last time I messed with Next where it felt like the game was D&D: Find Ways to Gain Advantage Edition. I don't need an exhaustive list of status effects to enjoy an RPG, but I feel like the ad/disad system isn't very fun. I was going to mention Expertise Dice as another potential good thing, but like you said, they keep monkeying with it because it's never quite what they want it to be, even if they keep it confined to the space of "stuff for fighters to do."
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Mar 3, 2013 07:11
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Maybe I'm just jaded but even expertise dice seem sort of weaksauce to me. "Instead of having a static modifier, you have a variable modifier to add to your variable dice roll. Except that the variable modifier is sometimes a resource instead." I sort of want to be convinced on why it's cool. The idea of a modifier that is MORE swingy (in a system where +1 to something is a huge deal) doesn't enthrall.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:15
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Mendrian posted:Maybe I'm just jaded but even expertise dice seem sort of weaksauce to me. Yeah, this is a thing I've noticed over the course of the Expertise Die's evolution but haven't really bothered to mention because it almost feels like I must be missing something, but it really feels like Expertise Dice just want to be a token pool of some sort. Having them be dice works for a few things, like if you want to let people spend them for extra damage, but then some other uses just seem to be straight-up "spend these like points" and other uses than that employ them as dice but to really loving stupid effect (add your ED roll to your jumping distance in inches). Plus with the whole "flat math" goal they're striving for, a big pool of swingy randomized bonuses feels like it kind of works against that maybe. Winson has a point in that rolling dice is one of those roleplaying game "feel-good" things, but I dunno, as it stands ED feel sort of unmoored. But the general idea of "each class has its own pool of points that it can pay out for to do STUFF" is a pretty nifty one and in theory you could do all kinds of cool stuff with it. Iron Heroes tried to do this and while the actual execution was all over the place (Iron Heroes is a book that needs a lot of errata) the idea is intriguing enough that with better design it could work out all right. I mean, other games do similar stuff, it's not some WILD and RADICAL new idea, though I imagine it'd be a hard sell for a new edition of D&D.
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Mar 3, 2013 07:42
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Well, using dice as the tokens should also be fine, and is actually a fairly elegant way to represent a point pool. If they noticed that they are doing that and then worked from there, they'd have the basis for a martial resource system (or more but let's be realistic here). Looking at Expertise dice as sort of like Action Points and so forth would be pretty cool. Especially if there were some basic uses of them to distinguish the classes that have them from other classes the way that spellcasting does (like spending X dice for an extra turn the way you would an Action Point). I haven't been keeping up- did they extend the concept to other classes like the Rogue? Making Backstab an ability that spends Expertise dice would make a great deal of sense.
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Mar 3, 2013 08:11
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It was a huge red flag for me when Mearls was posting about spending a year playing each iteration of D&D to isolate the soul of D&D. On company time. Someone in an old thread suggested Next as an endeavor in job security and office chair wheel-spinning, and in that context the insane lead time and minimal progress make more sense than anything else we've been given. Here's a really tasty mixed drink: In a pint glass combine 2oz well bourbon, a few ice cubes, and nearly fill with cola. Add lemonade mix as if you were making a pint of straight lemonade. Stir like crazy and enjoy! I like using two squirts of those MiO mixes, but I think Crystal Lite or any other single-serving lemonade mix would be fine. Tang would be pretty cool to try, but I usually wind up using a half-serving to zing up citrus tea or vodka.
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Mar 3, 2013 08:39
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I've never tasted a whiskey or bourbon that didn't make me want to throw up a little.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 3, 2013 10:08
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I've played elfgames since 2e, and I honestly hated D&D and played other stuff. 4e came out and I liked it, mostly, I find it funny that my personal 4e = wow bit boils down to " like MMOs, 4e is more fun when you play with goons." So, I'm watching all this next stuff, and it's leaving me kind of cold on the whole affair. Expertise dice seems fun, but also seems like something that other games do better. It's tough for me to care. However, two things I care a lot about are booze and meat. I'm no connosieur or anything but Wild Turkey is my go to bourbon. As for burgers, I like to add shredded cheese, egg, and green onion to the mix. If I'm using a grill I throw soaked wood chips and chunks of onion on the coals to get a smoke, or worcestershire on the patties if I'm rolling stovetop. Also, I've had good experiences with stovetop burgin' by starting at mid-heat (6 on my stove) for the first 4 mins (covering the pan) and then bumping up to mid-high (7-8) and keeping it covered while flipping every 4-5 mins. Another, unrelated, tip for moist meat: freeze your poo poo. Whether I'm grilling or stovetopping, cooking frozen meat rather than thawed has been pretty great. If you're doing something requiring prep (like a marinade or rub) it gets tricky though.
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Mar 3, 2013 10:12
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First: the best way to enjoy bourbon. Second: the thing that strikes me about wanting Next to go back to "basic" D&D is that Vancian spellcasting, and by extension the Next Wizard, is anything but basic. In fact, it's probably the least intuitive, most 'system-mastery' magic system I could think of, while simultaneously emulating precisely zero fiction (since D&D 'Vancian' is only superficially like Dying Earth magic at best).
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Mar 3, 2013 11:07
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Hodgepodge posted:I haven't been keeping up- did they extend the concept to other classes like the Rogue? Making Backstab an ability that spends Expertise dice would make a great deal of sense. Everyone but the Wizard gets martial dice now, but only the Fighter and Monk get to do anything interesting with them. The Barb, Cleric, and Rogue are limited to spending dice on extra damage and generic maneuvers. The Rogue also gets class-specific maneuvers that use the skill die.
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Mar 3, 2013 11:38
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This is the most interesting thing to come out of anything to do with Next.
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Mar 3, 2013 12:07
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Mendrian posted:I sort of want to be convinced on why it's cool. The concept of expertise dice is cool because of their potential as a design tool, not because of how 5e's using them. There are game elements that exist to convey information to the players; the more avenues of information, the moree useful a design tool can be. RPGs generally use dice, tokens, cards, something like that. (Hypothetically this should be one of the most important parts of game design but practically everyone uses dice without considering why, so.) Expertise dice are neat because they combine the benefits of dice with the benefits of tokens. Tokens can only convey so much information. You can measure how many you have, you can trade them away as a finite resource, you can use different colors to represent different resources. Not much more you can do without assigning them meaning outside of their existing use (like deciding some tokens are Fire tokens or some tokens are worth more than others) but that's more of an outside system. Dice can be hoarded and spent like tokens, but can also convey fixed or random numbers to indicate value. Differing die sizes can be used to indicate relative value in either direction (like how higher die sizes are better in Cortex+ because bigger numbers) and use the odds to represent even more information (in Cortex+, d4 are actually desirable sometimes because they are far more likely to roll a 1, providing you with a drama point). Even before you start adding in specific game mechanics, dice are capable of providing a lot of information to interpret. Most games don't use dice for anything beyond bigger is better, roll high random number, but they are capable of a lot more. Expertise Dice are one of the few game design elements I've seen come from the 5e team that has me legit interested because it indicates a bit of actual, critical design analysis. The implementation isn't great, granted, but I'll take what I can get from 5e.
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Mar 3, 2013 14:17
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ProfessorCirno posted:I don't hate 5e. I'm bored of it. Nothing about 5e interests me. Nothing about it makes my eyebrows raise or makes me want to look into it deeper. I mean, I was actually pretty drat anti-4e when it came out, but it still made a scene. It made me pay attention. 3e and 4e both (sorry, too young for when 2e first came out!) were statements. 5e so far is a whimper. Of course, I don't really like D&D as a system for anything anymore and I only play it when someone asks me to join their game. Made some spaghetti and meat sauce last night that ended up as more of a stew with spaghetti in it. Tomatoes, beef, olives, carrots, celery, capers, and some variety of herbs & spices I forget since I generally just grab things out of the spice cabinet and toss them in until it tastes good. Was delicious, and I have leftovers for ~3 meals.
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Mar 3, 2013 14:39
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5E's problem is that it has no hook line. Every good RPG I can think of has a great tagline, even new editions compared to old editions. The only innovative things 5E brings to the table are system minutiae like a advantage/disadvantage and bonus dice for martial classes. What can they really focus on in terms of marketing? They have really great art, but that's just window dressing. At no point has anyone thought about advertising to anyone outside of their playtest mailing list and it shows.
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Mar 3, 2013 15:11
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Their focus of marketing seems to be Modules! and Edition for Everyone! Neither of which is particularly attractive to someone who has never played before, nor particularly attractive to someone who can realise that 'for everyone' means 'everything is full of compromise'.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:57
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Reene posted:I've never tasted a whiskey or bourbon that didn't make me want to throw up a little. Washington Apples.
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Mar 3, 2013 20:09
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Rolling handfuls of dice is fun, but when it becomes the baseline rather than the exception it's just annoying. What's worse, it's a ceiling baseline rather than a floor. You have to sacrifice damage/dice in order to make cool tricks instead of being rewarded with more damage/dice for making good tactical decisions. And to be honest, I find WHFRP3ed's gimmick dice more fun than straight up numbered dice. I don't want D&D to copy that system, but it should definitely draw inspiration. Maybe some kind of hybrid system where you still have numbered dice for damage, and gimmick dice for effects. That way you will still get to roll dice even if you don't go for a full damaging attack.
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Mar 3, 2013 20:44
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Red_Mage posted:Washington Apples. I am usually a wimp when it comes to just drinking straight whiskey, I can do shots or mixed drinks with it but I have never been able to hang enough to drink straight whiskey on the rocks. That said, a friend of mine recently bought this apple flavored whiskey, and I can drink that non-stop. It is absolutely delicious, highly recommended. It is also great for mixed drinks since it already has its own fruity flavor, we have mostly been making Manhattans with it.
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Mar 3, 2013 20:59
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thespaceinvader posted:Their focus of marketing seems to be Modules! and Edition for Everyone! Well, the problem is that if I (or anybody else for that matter) have an edition that I enjoy playing, what's the draw for me to want to play a game that's at best only partially based on that edition? In theory a universal D&D that brings all D&D fans together at the table in dice-rolling harmony is great and all, but you have to make a game that appeals to all those different fans of all those different editions to do so, and it's pretty clear by this point that those different fans have irreconcilable tastes and wants. Just look at the whargarble every time the matter of Warlords and martial healing comes up. People who are fans of the Warlord and his ability to inspire people's hitpoints back don't want to hear "well we had to ditch martial healing because it causes these people over here to have a tantrum, but hey, compromise!" People who want straight-up D&D-style Vancian casting have been complaining about at-will spells since they made a return appearance in Next. If the choice is between "play an edition that does a bunch of things I like and deal with the warts" and "play an edition that doesn't do a bunch of the things that I like and has its own warts to deal with" then it doesn't seem like there's a lot of incentive for me to make the switch. That's the big question they don't really seem to be answering yet: why would I want to play Next instead of [OTHER EDITION]? Now new things are interesting. If you put out an edition that does a bunch of new stuff, or does the same sort of stuff but in a notably different fashion, then I'm more likely to be interested in giving it a try. That's basically why I wound up giving 4E a try in the first place, if 4E had basically been "3.X with a few more tweaks and a new coat of paint" I'd have given it a pass because I knew what that was like and I wasn't really interested, but 4E was different enough for me to want to see what it was like. Next has glimmers of this, they are tinkering with some stuff that could potentially be new and interesting, but so much of the talk coming from Mearls and the designers is all about "What is the feel of D&D, how can we make this D&D more D&D-like, what are your favorite things from previous editions, how can we make this more like previous editions?"
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Mar 3, 2013 21:01
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ProfessorCirno posted:This is why I stopped updating the old OP and why the old thread died. I don't hate 5e. I'm bored of it. Nothing about 5e interests me. Nothing about it makes my eyebrows raise or makes me want to look into it deeper. I mean, I was actually pretty drat anti-4e when it came out, but it still made a scene. It made me pay attention. 3e and 4e both (sorry, too young for when 2e first came out!) were statements. 5e so far is a whimper. And going with that, I haven't seen any advertising outside of the Wizards website for this edition. 4E and 3E had major marketing blitzes which said definite things without trying to placate a fanbase. And we're going to have to wait a year for anything new to come out (and I mean products, not Legends and Lore columns)? I can't see this ending well in any way from a financial or brand strength perspective. It really feels like the D&DNext designers are just, well, what's that term in Japanese Business Culture for an employee that isn't fired, but consigned to useless, low risk projects? I feel like the D&D department has the same level of importance or care invested as the pre- Jack Kirby Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen had at DC Comics.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:03
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The problem is feel. For many of the people still involved, the feel of D&D is their favourite edition, whichever it might be - but 5e will never feel like their favourite edition, because it'll be adulterated with bits of the editions they don't like, so why change? If they'd had the balls to do something new, that would have been something. But rehashing old ground in the hope of clawing back a customer base who are already satisfied with what they have is just, not going to work AFAICT. IIRC the term is window worker, or something. And yeah, kinda getting that feel, too. The D&D team might be basically there to make an edition of D&D because for whatever reason it can't be allowed to go out of print. Like the most recent Spider-man movie. Who knows. I'll be seriously looking at Dungeon World.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:11
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Is anyone actually considering buying the game, or has that been assumed to be a forgone conclusion? I don't imagine that I will, and this thread seems to indicate that most won't, but has anyone been rubbed the right way? D&D has always been, at best, a clunky, combat heavy game, and that's my main issue with it. It appears the new edition isn't doing anything to remedy this. As some have already stated, they're just adding old components to a bucket and selling it like its new. I would feel more compelled to actually purchase if they actually made a new system.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:44
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Lord Frisk posted:Is anyone actually considering buying the game, or has that been assumed to be a forgone conclusion? I don't The game as it stands now? Not a chance, there are dozens of games I'd rather throw my money towards. The game as it'll be one year from now? Who even loving knows, it's possible they might hammer it into some sort of amazing shape. But if a year from now we're looking at something that rather strongly resembles what we're looking at now? Probably not. I mean, in theory a bunch of pro-tier game designers literally drawing a paycheck to design a game as their day job ought to be able to come up with something really loving rad given a year to work on it...but the Next dev team has already had a bunch of time and so far the best they've come up with is, well, what we've got. I hold no illusions that calling oneself a "professional game designer" somehow bestows you with magical game design powers, that if Sean K. Reynolds gets to call himself a professional game designer then the bar isn't just low, it's non-existent, but I really do wonder what the heck is going on up there. Like, I am intensely curious to see the design process going into Next at work.
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Mar 4, 2013 01:02
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Having limited experience with pre-4e editions, I have a question. We often hear 4e's opponents decrying the use of aggro mechanics. (Whether or not the marking counts as that is not the point - it doesn't work like MMOs, but it IS a mechanic for affecting a monster's choice of who to attack, so lets just call it aggro and forget the hair-splitting.) We often hear that a Wizards late power is offset by the difficulty they have in surviving the early levels. So back in the day, if I was the DM and my monsters constantly went for the Wizard, and the Wizard player was busy rolling up his 6th consecutive level 1 wizard while the some of the other players had passed level 2 and were well on their way to level 3 ... that would be okay with everybody? Working as intended? Like, the Wizard player would be saying "Man, this is awesome. One of these days I'm going to get to Level 3 and then we'll kick rear end" and the other players would be funneling him extra XP and/or treasure to help him out?
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Mar 4, 2013 03:08
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Jimbozig posted:Having limited experience with pre-4e editions, I have a question.
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Mar 4, 2013 03:23
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Earlier edition D&D wizard survival and aggro mechanics came down to metagame peer-pressuring the DM into feeling like an rear end in a top hat and capitalizing on interpersonal affairs. Josh I've got 4 hitpoints. WTF dude, I thought we were friends! This also applies to every single RP downside balance to benefits. By RAW if your (every edition prior to 4) Wizard gets up to pee in the dead of night, he's a useless old man with no spells the next day. How many times has this been used to balance out fabulous magical powers?
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Mar 4, 2013 03:30
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