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Hammy posted:Unity is awesome. Unity has the capability to make a Gears of War 3 however it will take significant work and optimization. Unreal engine also requires significant work and optimization. Unity is capable of the highest end graphics. Unity has a source code version that can be licensed. Please continue bashing Ouya but leave Unity 3d out of it. Dead Trigger 1 / 2, Bad Piggies, Temple run 2 are legit games with good graphics that serve their purposes. There will some day soon be a Gear of War / Halo type title made with unity. Those games take at least 3-5 years to make and Unity 3D only became Triple A capable a year or two so we are still a bit out from launch. Until then Unity will be powering a large portion of phone and tablet games and a percentage of native executable. Edit: Removed Angry Birds Space reference, I thought they had already switched for Angry Birds space but I can't find evidence of that. Stick100 fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 22:19
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Yeah Angry Birds wasn't made with Unity though. I'm pretty sure it's a proprietary engine they use nowadays, they recoded it a year or so ago. EDIT: apparently Bad Piggies was though. Strange.
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Mar 4, 2013 22:21
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Der Shovel posted:This would all be kind of semi-understandable if this was March 2012 and they still had like a year of dev time left. But nope: the final units ship in 2,5 weeks. Words cannot describe how hosed this poo poo is. Have they shared any photos of a completed unit? Any decent business would have a few of these made in a trial run before they shipped to consumers, right? Basically, I'm wondering if we still have the possibility of Boxer8 (apparently the actual company name of the guys making the OUYA) being EXACTLY like Butterfly Labs from the Bitcoin thread, and getting held up by a bunch of surprises as they work their way towards shipping units. edit: Boxer8 was their name before they created OUYA, Inc. as an entity.
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Mar 4, 2013 22:21
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theflyingorc posted:Have they shared any photos of a completed unit? Any decent business would have a few of these made in a trial run before they shipped to consumers, right? Any decent company would have done any number of things Ouya didn't.
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Mar 4, 2013 22:24
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Reminder that this is the last technical project anyone on the original Ouya team had done before the Kickstarter: https://jawbone.com/speakers/jambox/overview Making a better quality than most bluetooth speaker set totally qualifies you for designing a game console rite.
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Mar 4, 2013 22:27
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Given all the various levels of gently caressed this is that we have all shared, I am personally amazed that the YOLO has managed to make it this far, and that an angry mob with pitchforks and torches hasn't formed to get their money back.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:03
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Reverend Catharsis posted:Given all the various levels of gently caressed this is that we have all shared, I am personally amazed that the YOLO has managed to make it this far, and that an angry mob with pitchforks and torches hasn't formed to get their money back. The vast majority of the consoles haven't shipped yet, they people in charge are acting like it's still going to be SUPER GREAT, and the people with Dev Units were dumb enough to drop $800 on an OUYA. There's nobody to be outraged... yet. Technically, everyone in this thread is just making predictions about how terrible it's going to be. They're really likely predictions, but the trainwreck is what is going to happen, not what HAS happened. They've actually exceeded my expectations thus far on the production side, but the storefront still doesn't make any sense.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:09
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Der Shovel posted:This would all be kind of semi-understandable if this was March 2012 and they still had like a year of dev time left. But nope: the final units ship in 2,5 weeks. Words cannot describe how hosed this poo poo is. We already knew it would be. Their lead software dev made a big hurrah about how cool it was they were forking Cyanogenmod for the OUYA. The number of things that make that a bad idea is just staggering.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:10
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Reverend Catharsis posted:Given all the various levels of gently caressed this is that we have all shared, I am personally amazed that the YOLO has managed to make it this far, and that an angry mob with pitchforks and torches hasn't formed to get their money back. Well, if you strip away all the ambitious talk all you're really left with is a pretty standard tegra 3 board inside a plastic cube, with a bluetooth input device inside a different plastic shell. The only thing they've really done is create a couple plastic shells and stuff over-the-shelf components inside of them. I haven't seen ANY significant UI/platform developments (beyond re-skins and launcher tweaks). So it's really not a crazy achievement to get where they are. The REAL meat is in the aluminum work they wanted to get done (on the scale of 60k units) and in a way that WORKS (no major thermal/wireless issues), and a frontend that is suitable for a wide launch. That's REAL work that can't be market-speak'd out of relevance... In 2.5 weeks. KillerMojo fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 23:12
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I have used Unity extensively and I really dislike it. Basically, the cycle of Unity development is: 1. Lets use Unity since it has so many built in feature that will make our life easier 2. Make a game that is about 80% of what you want 3. Try to figure out why your game's (physics/sound/shaders/input/...) is preventing you from achieving you vision for the finalized game 4. End up writing your own version of most of the things Unity does for you since the default ones can't do what you want Really, Unity is a great thing for prototyping and and getting to a playable state quickly. Its also great if you want to make something that is really similar to the tutorials, since it can handle those types of thing really well. Honestly, most OUYA devs will likely fall into this category, as they have tutorials on making 2D, side-scrolling platformers. But in the end, if you want to make anything ambitious, you end up having to not use all of the timesaving features that originally drew you to using it. You can make great games in it, but I don't think it really provides many more benefits over XNA or flash, outside of portability. The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 23:30
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The Glumslinger posted:I have used Unity extensively and I really dislike it. Basically, the cycle of Unity development is: To some extent this is what I've been trying to say, along with an important bit about the OUYA. Unity has been billed as the OUYA's killer feature for a while, and to be quite honest, it isn't that impressive. The XBOX360 being able to run Unreal 3 and Rockstar's RAGE when it was first being shown was a big loving deal. Likewise certain launch titles (PGR3 for the 360, Resistance for the PS3) went to great lengths to show off what the hardware was capable of. Unity may have an "optimize for Tegra3" setting that it inherited from Shadowgun, but without that its really loving unimpressive. Even with it, its not spectacular. Graphics aren't everything, but they enable a lot of things. Better shader models on the GPU allow the use of other processors to handle game logic, which lets you do better AI. FXAA has made huge advances in how games use light and shadow, and PhysX enables games like Trine to shine by offloading detailed physics puzzle stuff to the GPU. Granted, Unity has gotten better in recent years, you can use PhysX with it, and its shader support is at least approaching modernity now. It doesn't change the fact that the hardware profile they are targeting, even if Unity achieves almost no overhead for its stuff (it won't but that's beside the point) it still isn't going to produce anything that looks remotely modern.
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Mar 5, 2013 00:15
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Looking at their website, it looks like the EBOLA will be sold in a few stores (BB, Target, Gamestop). Who eats the cost if the in store units go unsold? I admit I don't know anything about retail, but I just can't imagine there being enough demand to justify stocking these things in B&M stores.
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Mar 5, 2013 00:46
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Usually a retail store can return unsold units, I believe. edit: Actually my information might only be for books so I'm not sure. Fergus Mac Roich fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 00:50
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Lester Shy posted:Looking at their website, it looks like the EBOLA will be sold in a few stores (BB, Target, Gamestop). Who eats the cost if the in store units go unsold? I admit I don't know anything about retail, but I just can't imagine there being enough demand to justify stocking these things in B&M stores. edit: Found the article quote:WSJ: Can you give us a quick breakdown of the deal? quote:WSJ: How will placement work in retail? Note that she dodges the question about retail placement. I think "is going to be in B&M stores" is from the same place "We've got Minecraft" came from. (Minecraft still not confirmed for OUYA). double edit: HAHAHAHAHA The 6th item when searching for OUYA on Amazon? Battletoads. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 00:51
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Louisgod posted:I'm so tired of 2D platformers, it feels like we've gotten an obscene flood of them in the last few years. Yes but do any of the others have a hipster main character? Checkmate.  e: Stop hating on Unity. The Engine's fine. Just like it isn't RPG Maker's fault that lots of people use it to make awful games. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 00:59
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Evil Fluffy posted:Yes but do any of the others have a hipster main character? Checkmate. Braid.
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Mar 5, 2013 01:02
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mr.capps posted:Braid. Main character, not creator.
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Mar 5, 2013 01:20
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pentyne posted:Main character, not creator. Tim was a hipster, just look at the original character designs for him. 
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Mar 5, 2013 01:45
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I look at that image and the first thing that pops to mind is "Doctor Who.. The hell cares."
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Mar 5, 2013 02:08
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Reverend Catharsis posted:I look at that image and the first thing that pops to mind is "Doctor Who.. The hell cares." That sounds like the title of a Retsupurae video of those Doctor Who adventure games.
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Mar 5, 2013 02:28
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Red_Mage posted:To some extent this is what I've been trying to say, along with an important bit about the OUYA. Unity has been billed as the OUYA's killer feature for a while, and to be quite honest, it isn't that impressive. The XBOX360 being able to run Unreal 3 and Rockstar's RAGE when it was first being shown was a big loving deal. Likewise certain launch titles (PGR3 for the 360, Resistance for the PS3) went to great lengths to show off what the hardware was capable of. What are you talking about? Unity supports shader model 5.0, and Unity Pro has come with FXAA for quite a while now.
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Mar 5, 2013 02:31
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It's still somewhat amazing to me that the ARGLEBARGLE people have managed to sucker Amazon in to their scam.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:05
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Meat Recital posted:It's still somewhat amazing to me that the ARGLEBARGLE people have managed to sucker Amazon in to their scam. I doubt Amazon cares. I assume they'll just return unsold units or have OUYA ship units as they are ordered.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:27
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I'm just glad to see Johnny Fiveaces is still getting work.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:34
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Meat Recital posted:It's still somewhat amazing to me that the ARGLEBARGLE people have managed to sucker Amazon in to their scam. Amazon will sell anything. Target is what's amazing me. Target keeps consoles BEHIND GLASS with minimal display. I can't imagine those things selling at all there. Or on Target's website. I would not be surprised if Target pulled out. It makes no sense.
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Mar 5, 2013 03:37
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theflyingorc posted:Let's have a chat about Free To Play. My understanding that everything on the ouya app store will be free to download. Everything is sold in game. Then the creators have you purchase whatever. It could be dlc, hats, whatever. Someone could make the apps store download just the title screen, and then the customer has to buy an unlock item to play the game.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:22
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illiniguy01 posted:My understanding that everything on the ouya app store will be free to download. Everything is sold in game. Then the creators have you purchase whatever. It could be dlc, hats, whatever. Someone could make the apps store download just the title screen, and then the customer has to buy an unlock item to play the game. When OUYA says free to play what they actually mean is "you must have a demo". That's it.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:26
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All the unity talk is really interesting, it's cool hearing about the more in-depth stuff.KillerMojo posted:This is an Amazon thing, are you trying to make a point or is that an honest question? It's both. I don't usually go around looking at controller prices, so I was honestly curious. I was also asking because the reason someone brought up the $35 thing was to ask how Microsoft can afford for their controller to be sold at $35 but the OUYA one costs $50. But, that question doesn't carry as much weight if the standard price of a 360 pad is $50 instead of $35. The price of off-brand controllers is also a separate question. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 05:33
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Can I just buy a OHYEAH minus the lovely controller and save myself $50?
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Mar 5, 2013 05:35
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kloa posted:Can I just buy a OHYEAH minus the lovely controller and save myself $50? Wait for e-bay, I'm sure there will be all kinds of stuff being sold by people once they realize they can't play Skyrim on it.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:36
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Evil Fluffy posted:Yes but do any of the others have a hipster main character? Checkmate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PikXHP3F6xo (it's a good game, buy it)
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Mar 5, 2013 05:38
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bucketmouse posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PikXHP3F6xo Pffft, yeah right. I heard that game was made in Unity.
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Mar 5, 2013 05:40
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kloa posted:Can I just buy a OHYEAH minus the lovely controller and save myself $50? Sure here you go: http://www.amazon.com/MK808-Android...words=cortex+a9
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Mar 5, 2013 05:44
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illiniguy01 posted:My understanding that everything on the ouya app store will be free to download. Everything is sold in game. Then the creators have you purchase whatever. It could be dlc, hats, whatever. Someone could make the apps store download just the title screen, and then the customer has to buy an unlock item to play the game. The problem is that they have not laid out their rules, policies, and enforcement on the matter. Laws/rules have no meaning if you don't explain how they're going to be enforced. And they haven't done that, they've only given examples.
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Mar 5, 2013 06:19
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theflyingorc posted:I understand that. We all understand that. Nobody doesn't understand that. The most I've heard them say about anything relating to this kind of topic is that they plan on having a TRC available at launch, without making it clear if that meant "it will be available at launch because it will have been out already for some time", or "it will be available at launch because we will release it that day". Sure would be helpful to have some of this stuff up before launch, too. If we're very lucky, we'll receive some sort of news in a few days around the time of the SXSW/Topolsky event. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 06:33
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XboxPants posted:I was also asking because the reason someone brought up the $35 thing was to ask how Microsoft can afford for their their controller to be sold at $35 but the OUYA one costs $50. But, that question doesn't carry as much weight if the standard price of a 360 pad is $50 instead of $35. The price of off-brand controllers is also a separate question. No one is actually this dumb, right? The OUZO controller selling for $50 doesn't mean that's the lowest price they could sell it for. It means its the price they're selling it for...please tell me you understand that prices aren't driven solely by some sort of objective need for $XX.xx.
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Mar 5, 2013 06:38
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Sigma-X posted:No one is actually this dumb, right? The OUZO controller selling for $50 doesn't mean that's the lowest price they could sell it for. It means its the price they're selling it for...please tell me you understand that prices aren't driven solely by some sort of objective need for $XX.xx. OK, right, but I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to argue in regards to what I was saying. There are basically two questions being raised - and someone correct me on these if they're wrong: • Why is the 360's pad cheaper than the OUYA's, even though the 360's pad is better? - (link to post) • Is the 360's pad cheaper than the OUYA's? - (link to post) Which one of those questions were you addressing, and what were you trying to say about it? I can't make it out. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 06:52
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XboxPants posted:OK, right, but I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to argue in regards to what I was saying. There are basically two questions being raised - and someone correct me on these if they're wrong: The MSRP for the Xbox 360 Wireless Controller is $50.
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Mar 5, 2013 06:55
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XboxPants posted:• Is the 360's pad cheaper than the OUYA's? - (link to post)
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Mar 5, 2013 06:57
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XboxPants posted:• Why is the 360's pad cheaper than the OUYA's, even though the 360's pad is better? - (link to post) Lets answer your question in reverse order. Yes the 360 pad is cheaper for the consumer to purchase than the OUYA's, it is most likely more expensive to manufacture, more on this in a minute. Your second question is the real meat and potatos of why the OUYA will not be a revolution that takes on the Big Three. Microsoft's Games division has lost about 3.6 billion dollars since the release of the 360 (it actually used to be more than that, they posted a profit for the first time ever a quarter ago IIRC). Sony's games division has lost ~4 billion. As counterintuitive as this sounds, this is actually seen as a good thing. Sony and Microsoft are still profitable overall, and their games divisions work as loss leaders to fuel other products. The PS3 is one of biggest reasons that Blu-Rays won out over HDDVDs, the Xbox brand is so recognizable that Microsoft has started to push all gaming it enables to use that branding, it is synonymous with games. The 360's pad is cheaper because Microsoft knows that for every 360 they sell, they also sell 8.6 games. For every controller they sell, they likely have figure that tells them how many games that translates to. Even if they lose a little money on the deal, they make it back in licensing and other departments (Xbox Live's revenue from subscriptions isn't credited to the gaming division IIRC). In contrast the OUYA raised 8 million dollars to make around 80,000 OUYAs with controllers. They don't have an attach rate figure, they are going in blind, and even if they had an estimated attach rate, their open console means that the attach rate will be FANTASTICALLY low. So they have to make money, or at least break even, on hardware. They've moved away from hardware that would be impossible to do that on, so they're pumping out the cheapest hardware they can, and relying on the overpriced devkits and overpledges for things like controllers to make up the difference. This may sound cruel and callous, but it is the way of the business world. Microsoft and Sony can (and have) outspend the OUYA by a factor of a thousand, Nintendo can do just as much. If the OUYA ever did catch on, you can bet that the competing product from the big three that was, more attractively priced, better made, and played nice with a major console, would be on the shelves in a heartbeat.
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Mar 5, 2013 08:04
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