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An explosion that large would cause so much dust to go into the upper atmosphere that there would a reduction in sunlight reaching earth, creating a global winter, extending the size of the ice caps and lowering sea levels. This map is inaccurate all around.
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Mar 5, 2013 17:43
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fermun posted:An explosion that large would cause so much dust to go into the upper atmosphere that there would a reduction in sunlight reaching earth, creating a global winter, extending the size of the ice caps and lowering sea levels. This map is inaccurate all around.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:07
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I think my favorite part of that map is that the bomb has managed to annihilate everything up to the border of Israel, with the implication that Israel survives just fine. Even if we discount all the other problems caused by this, being slightly beyond the crater doesn't actually make you safe, Israel is going to be as scoured of life as anywhere within Ground Zero Ocean.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:29
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I'm surprised the government was releasing accurate maps like this to the public during the war. Back in 1940 a fight to the death on east German soil probably seemed like a very distant possibility seeing that the Soviets had just been humiliated and the Americans very still strictly isolationist.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:39
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There's that, plus there were probably lots of still moderately accurate pre-1933 maps floating around and I don't think even the Nazis would have been able to take them all out of circulation. And I suppose security through obscurity doesn't really work on something as big and as public as cities, anyway.
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Mar 5, 2013 20:44
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Mister Adequate posted:I think my favorite part of that map is that the bomb has managed to annihilate everything up to the border of Israel, with the implication that Israel survives just fine. Even if we discount all the other problems caused by this, being slightly beyond the crater doesn't actually make you safe, Israel is going to be as scoured of life as anywhere within Ground Zero Ocean. The Ground Zero Ocean is going to become a popular tourist destination. In three hundred million years.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:20
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GreenCard78 posted:When I get home, I'll try to look through an old book for river disputes. The point wasn't just rivers, it's bad borders in general with a focus on Europeans drawing them to their desire without consideration to the locals. I'm fairly sure the Leopoldville riots of 59' wouldn't have occurred if Leopoldville wasn't located directly across from Brazzaville on the Congo River. That's a pretty specific example though.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:46
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twoday posted:Ok, here is a scraping of maps from my hard drive: I like the 'Japanese invasions of the west coast' fantasy on the backdrop of the fact that the Japanese didn't have nearly the logistical capability to invade Oahu alone.
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Mar 5, 2013 21:58
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Dusseldorf posted:I like the 'Japanese invasions of the west coast' fantasy on the backdrop of the fact that the Japanese didn't have nearly the logistical capability to invade Oahu alone. Personally, I like the fact that practically every plan assumes that there will be a fifth column of "pro-Japanese"/"pro-German" support helping to lead the Japanese and Germans to victory.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:05
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Dusseldorf posted:I like the 'Japanese invasions of the west coast' fantasy on the backdrop of the fact that the Japanese didn't have nearly the logistical capability to invade Oahu alone. These were published by Life in March of 1942 (three months after Pearl Harbor), so everybody was pretty freaked out. Things were going badly at that point and it was far from obvious that we would end up winning that war. Life was doing some basic scare-mongering to take advantage of people's fears in order to extract money from their pockets. Perhaps it was also some war propaganda to help mobilize people into believing such invasions were actually possible and therefore be less complacent about the impregnability of North America.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:05
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Japan didn't have enough resources to win their ongoing Chinese campaign, so in hindsight any projection beyond "The Japanese are going to awkwardly sit there and wait for us to kill them" was too pessimistic.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:09
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steinrokkan posted:Japan didn't have enough resources to win their ongoing Chinese campaign, so in hindsight any projection beyond "The Japanese are going to awkwardly sit there and wait for us to kill them" was too pessimistic. Well invading china is alot like trying to invade the united states considering its size. 
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Mar 5, 2013 22:11
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Lawman 0 posted:Well invading china is alot like trying to invade the united states considering its size. Well, the Chinese were fragmented, and sometimes violently anti-Chian... Unfortunately for Japan, all those fragments were more likely to Support Kuomintang than Manchuoko. Hell, the Japanese even paid money to their Chinese "allies" who turned their allegiances as soon as their Japanese cheques got paid.
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Mar 5, 2013 22:35
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Look, here is a map. It is politically loaded. 
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Mar 5, 2013 23:16
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Ohio, Illinois and Michigan combined have roughly the same population as Canada, the "Central North American Republic" wouldn't just get assimilated into Canada.Deteriorata posted:I particularly liked the presumption that Germany would have the ability to invade the US while being unable or not bothering to take England.
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Mar 6, 2013 04:30
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dethslayer666 posted:Ohio, Illinois and Michigan combined have roughly the same population as Canada, the "Central North American Republic" wouldn't just get assimilated into Canada. Yeah, people tend to forget that Chicago is a major world city. It's one of the most populous metro areas in the world and an extremely important financial center.
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Mar 6, 2013 04:36
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Nothing about that map really makes sense. Why would the people of California or Idaho submit to rule from Beijing (supposing China wanted responsibility over a huge noncontiguous territory)? Why would the European Union admit a new member state that's bigger than Germany, with a collapsed economy, and not even in Europe?
platzapS fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 06:40
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platzapS posted:Nothing about that map really makes sense. Why would the people of California or Idaho submit to rule from Beijing (supposing China wanted responsibility over a huge noncontiguous territory)? Why would the European Union admit a new member state that's bigger than Germany, with a collapsed economy, and not even in Europe? The map is from an article published in Pravda, the Soviet propaganda rag turned tabloid. It's like trying to take apart a "Eurabia" map put in the Daily Mail, there's no actual thought behind it.
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Mar 6, 2013 06:52
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Yeah, people tend to forget that Chicago is a major world city. It's one of the most populous metro areas in the world and an extremely important financial center. Honestly if you're going to split up North America by population centers future borders would be centered around this:  The Great Lakes megalopolis would be the most powerful region. It'd help if that map showed us if Canada was split as well. I could see maybe SOME power projection from the Golden Horseshoe in Southern Ontario but not enough to take over the entire midwest.
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Mar 6, 2013 08:02
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Fojar38 posted:The Great Lakes megalopolis would be the most powerful region. This needs a boardgame. [edit] This needs a boardgame called "A Nation Divided". GuestBob fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Mar 6, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 08:06
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GuestBob posted:This needs a boardgame. Will Shattered Union do?
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Mar 6, 2013 08:20
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dethslayer666 posted:What I've learned from playing Risk is that North America is a fortress, and is very difficult to invade. The Germans would need to hold at least two of Iceland, Kamchatka and Colombia to launch a successful invasion of North America. Theoretically they could do this without Great Britain, but it would pose a significant weakness to their supply line through Greenland. Risk is a lovely game man. Regardless of continents or territories.
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Mar 6, 2013 13:29
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Fojar38 posted:It'd help if that map showed us if Canada was split as well. I could see maybe SOME power projection from the Golden Horseshoe in Southern Ontario but not enough to take over the entire midwest. I do think this would be an awesome board game, though.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:22
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Frostwerks posted:Risk is a lovely game man. Regardless of continents or territories. Ahem.
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Mar 6, 2013 22:27
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twoday posted:Ok, here is a scraping of maps from my hard drive:  http://mr-home.staff.shef.ac.uk/hobbies/seelowe.txt Trench_Rat fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 6, 2013 23:33
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Fojar38 posted:The Great Lakes megalopolis would be the most powerful region. We here in the north-east corridor dispute this. We'll take them on, we're not afraid 
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Mar 7, 2013 00:07
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So the plan was; 1) Amass armies on northern French coastline 2) ??? 3) End English naval supremacy 4) Conquer southern England I'm noticing a lot of these plans have steps that go "???, End X Naval supremacy, Conquer part of nation most heavily defended".
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Mar 7, 2013 00:07
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DrProsek posted:So the plan was; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book
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Mar 7, 2013 00:17
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Smirr posted:There's that, plus there were probably lots of still moderately accurate pre-1933 maps floating around and I don't think even the Nazis would have been able to take them all out of circulation. And I suppose security through obscurity doesn't really work on something as big and as public as cities, anyway. Didn't the USSR kinda pull this off semi-successfully or was that helped by some of the Closed Cities were probably made entirely from scratch on top of remote previously unheard of fur trade/fishing villages?
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Mar 7, 2013 00:31
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Dusseldorf posted:I like the 'Japanese invasions of the west coast' fantasy on the backdrop of the fact that the Japanese didn't have nearly the logistical capability to invade Oahu alone. At the time we had very very little idea of what the Axis were really capable of logistically. By that point they had already done the impossible and seemed unstoppable. You might think these maps are silly now but they were very serious at the time. The US fully expected the Japanese to invade Ohau shortly after Pearl Harbor. And the British fully knew that the Germans would invade immanently during most of late 1940. It was treated as a fact of life. It was not fear mongering in any way. The first half of 1942 was a very scary time even though we now know in hindsight that the Axis were hosed long before then. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 02:27
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My understanding of it was that it was already a miracle/Allied colossal gently caress ups that the Axis even managed to get as far as they did. I doubt it's totally true but I've heard if France had made a push into Germany in 1939 while Germany was at war with Poland, even if the push was disorganized or what have you Germany may have lost the war right then and there.quote:A print run produced 20,000 books  huh... Again in hindsight I guess it's obvious but the Germans sound like they were totally convinced that it wasn't a question of 'if' but 'when' would German forces land in England.
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Mar 7, 2013 02:40
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DrProsek posted:My understanding of it was that it was already a miracle/Allied colossal gently caress ups that the Axis even managed to get as far as they did. I doubt it's totally true but I've heard if France had made a push into Germany in 1939 while Germany was at war with Poland, even if the push was disorganized or what have you Germany may have lost the war right then and there. That is largely true (the first point at least. Its arguable whether a French invasion of Germany while it was involved in Poland would have worked. I would argue that it would't have.). However, these are things we now know due to hindsight. To the world at large at the time the German victory over the French essentially "proved" the unsurpassed military might of Nazi Germany. The specific reasons why the Germans were able to so decisively crush the French in under a month did not become apparent until years after. We now know that it was a hilariously awful clusterfuck that should have NEVER happened. But as far as anyone was concerned the Wehrmacht were capable of the impossible. DrProsek posted:
Literally the entire world believed the same. Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 02:46
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Raenir Salazar posted:This thing right? My favorite part of any maps like this is the fact that for some reason Canada is willing to pipe our water to other countries.
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Mar 7, 2013 02:49
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From said list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cocks Did people just not notice this when they were voting, or was everyone just more mature back then?
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Mar 7, 2013 04:02
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Come on, if I saw that name on a ballot you bet your rear end I'd vote for it.
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Mar 7, 2013 04:10
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DrProsek posted:So the plan was; http://www.philm.demon.co.uk/Miscellaneous/Sealion.htm This is pretty much my go-to link every time Sealion gets brought up. Even if every ship in the Royal Navy was suddenly deleted overnight, the RAF could still have stopped an invasion. Even if the RAF was suddenly deleted overnight, the RN could still have stopped an invasion. Even if both of them just poofed into thin air, the German plans were such a clusterfuck that the whole thing probably still would have failed.
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Mar 7, 2013 05:55
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If the French shipping and capital ships were all captured intact it might change the equations.
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Mar 7, 2013 07:14
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Baloogan posted:If the French shipping and capital ships were all captured intact it might change the equations. Who would man these ships though? Would there be the appropriate supplies and infrastructure to support them?
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Mar 7, 2013 08:48
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JoeCL posted:Who would man these ships though? Would there be the appropriate supplies and infrastructure to support them? French people. They certainly manned everything else.
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Mar 7, 2013 08:49
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JoeCL posted:Who would man these ships though? Would there be the appropriate supplies and infrastructure to support them? Vichy France was all too eager to help the Germans.
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Mar 7, 2013 16:43
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