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ProfessorCirno posted:Is Temp HP just filling your body with even more blood then it can actually handle? If you have enough Temp HP, can you cut off your own hand and send it shooting like a rocket? Can you attach extra brains for bonus Int and Wis? As well, if you suffer enough damage that your arm falls off, do you need your arm to return to full health, or will any arm do? If a severed limb is cauterized, does your maximum HP go down? Has there ever been a Frankenstein's Monster style class or creature? I kinda want to play a character that only has temp HP, but gets more and changes stats from attaching body parts to itself, and loses them as it takes damage now.
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Mar 8, 2013 06:48
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Warlords are awesome. They're the angry sports coaches of D&D. I've mentioned before that I often play with a group consisting half of PhDs or PhD students and half of guys who are into BJJ and Muay Thai. One of the PhD students, an engineer, couldn't understand warlord healing. Not in a grognardy way, but just a "how does that work?" sort of way. All the martial arts guys got it immediately. "It's like when you're in a fight, and your coach is in your corner with instructions and encouragement. Sometimes you don't tap and manage to keep defending because of his advice, or just because you don't want to let him down even though you think you're hosed. Just watch an amateur BJJ match and listen to the corner." Better still, in my opinion, take up a martial art. The first time you feel like you're about to pass out and can't possibly continue, and you manage to pull through and finish the fight (even if you lose on points) because a man is yelling at you in Portuguese*, you'll understand Warlord healing just fine. *Which you don't speak, but it doesn't matter because he's so excited you couldn't understand him even if he was using English, and you're tired enough that even clear English would just sound like "yaaraglefuckingblaaaaaargh blaaaahfuckinyaaaaar" anyway. Edit: What I'm getting at is that a sufficiently inspiring person can make you ignore pain, injuries, and lack of oxygen just by shouting incomprehensibly at you, and you can test this yourself, but it's a lengthy and painful process. And after the fight, you can have a compression bandage and an icepack and some ibuprofen and a beer and feel OK again in an hour. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 07:21
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Randalor posted:Has there ever been a Frankenstein's Monster style class or creature? I kinda want to play a character that only has temp HP, but gets more and changes stats from attaching body parts to itself, and loses them as it takes damage now. I think in the... third? Penny Arcade w/ Chris Perkins game, Wil Wheaton (whose main character was dead) played as a zombie tag-along whose gimmick that it was a minion but it could spend a minor action to top up on temp HP.
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Mar 8, 2013 07:28
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AlphaDog posted:Warlords are awesome. They're the angry sports coaches of D&D. Warlord healing makes total sense to anyone who's ever engaged in physical activity, something something fat nerds.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:20
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One of these days I want to run a Warlord named Captain Obvious. He heals people by pointing out that they're hurt, and it's so obnoxious that they get better just to make him shut up. D&D Next would force me to make Cleric Obvious, who worships the god of knowledge and would need to use divine powers to heal people. Making clerics the only people who can heal is just mind-boggling to me - will paladins have Lay on Hands? Will there be shamans or druids specialising in healing? Hell, will we get a wizard class or sub-class who uses magic to heal? The idea that only clerics can heal is a limiting, boring idea that stifles potential creativity.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:37
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ungulateman posted:One of these days I want to run a Warlord named Captain Obvious. He heals people by pointing out that they're hurt, and it's so obnoxious that they get better just to make him shut up. Again though, they've said...somewhere...that Clerics, Bards, Druids, and Paladins will all have some healing ability, to what degree they've yet to nail down pretty much like everything else in Next, and I think there's also some sort of background/specialty called Mystic Healer which gives you limited magical healing ability. It's not so much "Clerics are the only ones who can restore hitpoints," it's "Magic is the only thing that can restore hitpoints." Which is either better or worse depending on your point of view.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:40
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ProfessorCirno posted:Warlord healing makes total sense to anyone who's ever engaged in physical activity, something something fat nerds. Aaaaaaaand as usual you're way more concise than I could ever be 
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Mar 8, 2013 08:50
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AlphaDog posted:Aaaaaaaand as usual you're way more concise than I could ever be 
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Mar 8, 2013 09:00
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Every human being I have met who's been confused by the concept of HP as fighting spirit/luck/vigor/close shaves has instantly understood the idea when it's related through Die Hard. John McClaine is constantly burning through HP, but never runs out, while the terrorists are hitting zero HP left and right. Nerds are suckers when they order pizza for game nights, when you can make your own in the same time it'd take for delivery or the nightly takeout run to get to your door, for about as much effort, and a whole lot less money. Dump a packet of yeast, two cups of flour, a little olive oil, some salt and about as much sugar (to feed the yeast, it won't taste sweet at all) into a bowl and blend. Add in about a cup of warm water, stir until doughy, and let it sit for five minutes. If you know how to toss pizza dough, great, do that. If not, roll it out on a baking sheet. For sauce, take your favorite pasta sauce and dump some tomato paste in it to thicken it up. A lot of stores will sell tomato paste in a squeezable tube with a cap, so you can add as much or as little as you like without wasting a whole can of the stuff. Top as you like and bake for fifteen to twenty minutes, depending on how doughy you like your crust and your oven's efficiency. I'm partial to plain ol' feta and prosciutto in large quantities of each, maybe with some bell peppers on top if they're in season. It's tasty and salty as all hell, which is great when you combine it with my diabetic shock of choice. My favorite game night cocktail consists of a snobby sugar cane soda, for this purpose preferably some knockoff of Dr. Pepper, and a giant bottle of Kraken. You can frequently find the enormous 1.5L bottles of it for about thirty bucks, which is a frigging steal for a rum decent enough to drink straight, if you don't mind rotting your teeth a bit. Mix one part rum to three parts soda, and if you're like me, ride the express train to drunksville because you just consumed threeish shots of 100 proof booze with a bunch of sugar on an empty stomach. This particular rum and coke has been known to make even Arkham Horror fun, when consumed repeatedly over an evening. Congratulations, you're a well-fed, drunken lazy nerd, for about six bucks a head.
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Mar 8, 2013 09:00
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In the 90s we often used to do home-made pizzas on RPG night. Everyone would show up at 5pm or so, and start contructing their pizzas (host supplies or makes the bases). By 7pm, everyone had eaten, and we'd game for a couple of hours and have some drinks. Of course, back then at least half the group's idea of "game night drinks" was to smash down as many beers as possible while pretending to be dwarves. There usually ended up being a lot of "pretending" to be angry drunk belligerent assholes, and not much actual dungeons and dragons. The group at the time was a bouncer (me), two bartenders, a ship's mechanic (when not at sea), and an engineering student. Not your average D&D group, but it meant that Monday night was the best time for gaming, and These days "game night drinks" is "dinner party with someone making something awesome and some wine and craft beer, followed by boardgames" or "barbecue lunch with someone making something awesome and wine or craft beer followed by RPGs" and everyone is well behaved. Then again, we're all in our mid 30s now. We do know this one dude who's not a gamer, and always talks about Risk when gaming comes up. So a month ago we go to see him and he talks us into playing risk, and the "smash as many beers as possible while pretending to be a belligerent dwarf" tactic comes back out and hey, risk is kind of fun like that. Last week, one dude made this pulled pork which was amongst the best things I've ever tasted, and I couldn't threaten or bribe him into revealing his recipe, so I'd love to hear about how to make really awesome smoky pulled pork. Also whether it's appropriate to team-kill a D&D character just because his player won't share a recipe. I'm leaning towards yes Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 09:16
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If you're going to make homemade pizza, you have to add fennel seed (whole or crushed) to the sauce, you have to. A lot of commercial tomato sauces/pastes don't have it, but it adds so much flavor to a pizza sauce you have no idea. Also if you like things like pizza but find that the tomato sauce is too acidic, add just a little bit of milk to the sauce while prepping it. Not a bunch, just a little bit. It cuts the acidity right down and even gives it a bit of added richness.
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Mar 8, 2013 09:24
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Kai Tave posted:If you're going to make homemade pizza, you have to add fennel seed (whole or crushed) to the sauce, you have to. A lot of commercial tomato sauces/pastes don't have it, but it adds so much flavor to a pizza sauce you have no idea. The first idea is horrible. Don't do it. It will ruin your good sauce. The second idea is intriguing and I will try it next time instead of raisins or a carrot.
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Mar 8, 2013 09:33
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Don't use too much fennel seed and it's ok. Not great, but ok. The milk thing sounds weird and interesting and I'll have to try it with my wannabe neopolitan pizza, which sometimes does get too acidic. Quick edit: You should try artichoke on your homemade pizza, it's pretty great. Also does anyone have a way of stopping bocconcini from making a pizza base soggy? Whenever I try to use it, the flavor's good but the base goes weird under the bocconcini, which shouldn't happen with the hot inverted cast-iron skillet I always put under the pizza*, but it still does. *Do this, it's like a pizza stone that actually works. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 09:35
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The thing with adding milk to a pizza sauce is the recipe I've used calls for tomato paste, herbs, onion and garlic, but the result is fairly thick so you need some sort of liquid to thin it with. Milk is one of the possible options, which gives you a milder, less acidic sauce, but if you wanted you could use something like a red wine instead which will obviously not cut down on the acid but give it a bolder flavor in the process.
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Mar 8, 2013 10:02
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ProfessorCirno posted:I feel that the fact that he directly quotes edition war rhetoric with his "you can't shout a hand back on!" in turn speaks volumes. Kai Tave posted:Also if you like things like pizza but find that the tomato sauce is too acidic, add just a little bit of milk to the sauce while prepping it. Not a bunch, just a little bit. It cuts the acidity right down and even gives it a bit of added richness.
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Mar 8, 2013 10:40
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Splicer posted:You can get back up to full health by sleeping, it just takes a while. If Warlord HP healing represents "shouting a hand back on" then that implies Fighters are perfectly capable of regenerating their own limbs, it just takes a while. Clearly, all D&D Next characters are secretly Axolotl.
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Mar 8, 2013 10:45
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So what is next planing on doing with the warlord other core ability, giving your allies extra attacks. Is next going to have anything like Hammer and Anvil or Lamb's to the Slaughter or even a basic Commander's Strike. For people what actually played 4th edition the biggest thing about the warlord isn't its healing which is actually rather low compared to a cleric, bard, or shaman, its the warlord's enabling ability. Did the fighter whiff their attack and fail to mark the dragon that's trying have the wizard for lunch?, give him another shot at it with a bonus on top of it, Rouge missed his sneak attack opportunity? give him another go. Is the barbarian right on top of the evil warlock and needs to bring him down asap? you get the idea. Is next going to have anything like that, or is yelling at people to make them try harder too unrealistic for people who never played sports?
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Mar 8, 2013 10:49
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Vorpal Cat posted:So what is next planing on doing with the warlord other core ability, giving your allies extra attacks. Is next going to have anything like Hammer and Anvil or Lamb's to the Slaughter or even a basic Commander's Strike. For people what actually played 4th edition the biggest thing about the warlord isn't its healing which is actually rather low compared to a cleric, bard, or shaman, its the warlord's enabling ability. Did the fighter whiff their attack and fail to mark the dragon that's trying have the wizard for lunch?, give him another shot at it with a bonus on top of it, Rouge missed his sneak attack opportunity? give him another go. Is the barbarian right on top of the evil warlock and needs to bring him down asap? you get the idea. I'd say we'll get none of that from anything, since there's not really any mechanics for it to interact with - One of the Warlord's good things was "oh, defender failed to mark, here's another chance", but there's no marking, so...
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Mar 8, 2013 12:07
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AlphaDog posted:I'd say we'll get none of that from anything, since there's not really any mechanics for it to interact with - One of the Warlord's good things was "oh, defender failed to mark, here's another chance", but there's no marking, so... 
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Mar 8, 2013 12:32
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Nessus posted:"How can a Warlord give me a do over on a spell? Does he just shout at me so hard that I immediately remember the spell and conduct the exact scientifically rigorous action of that spell, expending the memorized slot (which he has also restored) including a total duplication of the spell components expended? That's a pretty major power to give some dumb sports coach." "How can being shouted at make a Fighter able to swing twice as fast? Oh please. Now let me tell you about Time Stop."
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Mar 8, 2013 12:38
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Nessus posted:"How can a Warlord give me a do over on a spell? Does he just shout at me so hard that I immediately remember the spell and conduct the exact scientifically rigorous action of that spell, expending the memorized slot (which he has also restored) including a total duplication of the spell components expended? That's a pretty major power to give some dumb sports coach." "You were born for greatness; not some piddly spell slinging like these other mages. Those spell components? You don't loving need them; they're just holding you back. That memorization? Don't think yourself so weak that you forget a spell after one casting. You're not a god-damned adventurer; you're a Hero. Now cast your damned spell, and do it properly this time. I got a loving dragon to yell at. Come and get it, ya scaly gently caress!" It's less about what the Warlord can do, but what you can do, but with the Warlords help. It's that 'Don't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you' type thing. What I'm saying is that Warlords should get some bitching shades. TalonDemonKing fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 12:59
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The warlord is a combination of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, Obi-wan Kenobi, and Mr. Miyagi. There's your motherfucking Appendix N right there. "Concentrate, focus power, balance, use the force, and show me some goddamn motivation right now or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-gently caress you". My favorite D&D character ever was Sergeant Hartman, halfling warlord. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 13:40
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AlphaDog posted:Last week, one dude made this pulled pork which was amongst the best things I've ever tasted, and I couldn't threaten or bribe him into revealing his recipe, so I'd love to hear about how to make really awesome smoky pulled pork. Also whether it's appropriate to team-kill a D&D character just because his player won't share a recipe. I'm leaning towards yes Anyway, all this Warlord bitching is a bit silly until we see what they come up with for the fighter's 'Warlord-ish build.' If it includes granting THP and granting saving throws and extra attacks, I won't care THAT much that they ditched the healing. I agree that the argument why they can't heal you is stupid, but my favourite part about Warlords was always the attack-granting lazylord stuff.
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Mar 8, 2013 15:40
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That RPG.net post is spot-on. One of the cool and important things about the warlord was that it could entirely obviate the cleric. My first 4e group ever featured a wizard, a warlock, a fighter, a rogue, and two warlords. No one felt like playing a cleric, and we got along perfectly fine (and the two warlords, owing to different power selections, played really differently from each other). The "gently caress it, we'll just make clerics the only source of HP recovery like in the old days" thing is just another example of the designers invoking tradition in order to excuse not doing any work.
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Mar 8, 2013 15:46
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Ferrinus posted:That RPG.net post is spot-on. One of the cool and important things about the warlord was that it could entirely obviate the cleric. My first 4e group ever featured a wizard, a warlock, a fighter, a rogue, and two warlords. No one felt like playing a cleric, and we got along perfectly fine (and the two warlords, owing to different power selections, played really differently from each other). I am waiting with bated breath for one of the developers to actually outright say "It's tradition!" at some point. I feel like we're getting closer to it, as they slowly discard their attempts to keep 4e fans strung along. quote:Anyway, all this Warlord bitching is a bit silly until we see what they come up with for the fighter's 'Warlord-ish build.' If it includes granting THP and granting saving throws and extra attacks, I won't care THAT much that they ditched the healing. I agree that the argument why they can't heal you is stupid, but my favourite part about Warlords was always the attack-granting lazylord stuff. Here's the catch though: They've already said that the warlord will be split between bard and fighter, so already it's significantly weaker even right from the start. Actually, here's the second catch: every negative prediction regarding 4e materials has been true so far. Boring fighters, vancian casting, divine only healing, no warlords, hell they even removed the warlock class!. We did wait. Why are you still waiting?
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Mar 8, 2013 16:21
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AlphaDog posted:The warlord is a combination of Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, Obi-wan Kenobi, and Mr. Miyagi. I have many favorite D&D characters, but I have to admit the warforged warlord named R Lee Armory probably makes the top 5.
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Mar 8, 2013 17:01
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ProfessorCirno posted:Actually, here's the second catch: every negative prediction regarding 4e materials has been true so far. Boring fighters, vancian casting, divine only healing, no warlords, hell they even removed the warlock class!. We did wait. Why are you still waiting?
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Mar 8, 2013 17:06
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Nessus posted:"How can a Warlord give me a do over on a spell? Does he just shout at me so hard that I immediately remember the spell and conduct the exact scientifically rigorous action of that spell, expending the memorized slot (which he has also restored) including a total duplication of the spell components expended? That's a pretty major power to give some dumb sports coach." "You call yourself a wizard? My grandmother could cast better spells than you, and she was an illiterate dirt farmer! Either you cast that spell properly, or once the battle is over, I'm putting you on latrine duty, and we're having curry for supper! You know how curry affects Grok's stomach. Do you want to be the one who has to clean up after him?" Honestly, I wouldn't have that much of a problem with them removing the Warlord if they actually incorperated his stuff into the Fighter class. Heck, considering the Fighter's old "Eventually becomes a great leader of men" schtick in AD&D, it would make sense that he would be able to make inspirational speaches that gave various benefits to the party. But then what would the bard do  ?
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Mar 8, 2013 17:27
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So...since Pathfinder is 3.More for those kinds of gamers, you think Paizo is going to make a "fixed" version of 4E once the edition lapses? Maybe call it "Pathfinder: 2nd Edition"...
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Mar 8, 2013 20:49
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Veyrall posted:So...since Pathfinder is 3.More for those kinds of gamers, you think Paizo is going to make a "fixed" version of 4E once the edition lapses? Maybe call it "Pathfinder: 2nd Edition"...
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Mar 8, 2013 20:52
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That said, it's still entirely possible to make a 4E-inspired knockoff or preretroclone or whatever if you want, you just have to put in a little more work to make it look less blatantly derivative and you can't do the Pathfinder trick of letting the OGL do a bunch of the groundwork for you. I don't know if the same sort of market is really there for Pathfinder 4E to be honest. I know that personally I'd be a little leery of anybody who was attempting to do a full on 4E clone if only because making 4E stuff is a lot of loving work if you want to do it right and not a lot of people are interested in getting it right if the majority of 4E homebrew out there is any indication.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:03
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FactsAreUseless posted:I think Wizards has much tighter controls on the 4e source material than it did on the 3.5 material, since it's not on the OGL. It has some sort of semi-open license, I think, but it doesn't allow the kind of freedom that Paizo used to make Pathfinder.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:08
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Asimo posted:Or in less polite but more accurate language, WotC saw other companies like Paizo literally stealing and republishing their work outright thanks to the OGL and took better steps to ensure this wouldn't happen with 4e, right. Pretty much, yeah. WotC learned their lesson and aren't keen on seeing it repeated on the same level as Paizo. Kai Tave posted:That said, it's still entirely possible to make a 4E-inspired knockoff or preretroclone or whatever if you want, you just have to put in a little more work to make it look less blatantly derivative and you can't do the Pathfinder trick of letting the OGL do a bunch of the groundwork for you. Personally I'd be super-interested in having a kind of stripped-down 4e, one where there isn't so much glut to it. More concise and with better math, and where it doesn't start breaking down in late paragon and epic. Right now the closest thing we got is 13th Age which...isn't at all like 4e, sadly. Far from a bad game, but as someone else said here before there's nothing quite approaching the tactical play that 4e does, and I really enjoy that when it comes to combat.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:14
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Slimnoid posted:Personally I'd be super-interested in having a kind of stripped-down 4e, one where there isn't so much glut to it. More concise and with better math, and where it doesn't start breaking down in late paragon and epic. My entry in the Feb design contest attempted that, although very stripped down at 2 pages, and it shows. I'm sure it's not enough for a full 4E-style campaign, but I think it's a decent core. I'd be interested in feedback on it.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:33
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Asimo posted:Or in less polite but more accurate language, WotC saw other companies like Paizo literally stealing and republishing their work outright thanks to the OGL and took better steps to ensure this wouldn't happen with 4e, right. IP licensing is totally tangent to the thread, aside from perhaps discussing how 5e might be licensed, but it is not "more accurate" to call it "literally stealing". Granting highly permissive rights to an IP in such a way that allow third parties to reproduce, modify and publish derivative works is the whole point of open licenses. Perhaps WotC got burned for not fully understanding this, but it is in no way intellectual theft.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:07
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Kai Tave posted:If you're going to make homemade pizza, you have to add fennel seed (whole or crushed) to the sauce, you have to. A lot of commercial tomato sauces/pastes don't have it, but it adds so much flavor to a pizza sauce you have no idea. Fennel as in the plant that tastes like liquorice? You are worse than ten Hitlers.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:47
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Slimnoid posted:Personally I'd be super-interested in having a kind of stripped-down 4e, one where there isn't so much glut to it. More concise and with better math, and where it doesn't start breaking down in late paragon and epic. Agreed 100%. I think the most distressing thing about Next is watching so many good ideas be shunted off into a dead end. 4e has so much room for incremental improvement (or distillation), and it's a real shame that it's going extinct rather than evolving into something better.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:50
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Desty posted:You are worse than ten Hitlers. That may be true, but I'm still right.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:52
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Slimnoid posted:Personally I'd be super-interested in having a kind of stripped-down 4e, one where there isn't so much glut to it. More concise and with better math, and where it doesn't start breaking down in late paragon and epic. I agree that I'd like one with more streamlined math and feat growth (like the fairly wonderful Sacred BBQ), but a big part of the reason I like 4e is because there's just so many cool powers, and none of them are traps in the way old Toughness or martial classes in general were. This is also what took up the bulk of the book for player characters, so trimming it down to a 30 page book like people keep suggesting just seems nonviable unless you only have 10 levels and 4-5 classes. Making the feat list much smaller and the choices much more game impacting is a wonderful idea, as are things like truncating combat bonuses and simplifying the skill system, but powers are just as intrinsic to 4e's design as the grid is.
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Mar 9, 2013 00:08
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Countblanc posted:simplifying the skill system,
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Mar 9, 2013 00:16
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