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Hah I just noticed that on the factions page for the Iceni, Ireland and Scotland as labeled as one province. Hopefully thats not final.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:07
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If they do the whole 'small European country/one or two slots' thing from ETW/NTW I will be sincerly pissed. Seriously.
SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 18:12
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Pope Mobile posted:I don't care what anyone says that's a robot horse and I want one. Looks like they're getting started with their Warhammer game earlier than expected: 
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Mar 7, 2013 18:19
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Rabhadh posted:Hah I just noticed that on the factions page for the Iceni, Ireland and Scotland as labeled as one province. Hopefully thats not final. It looks like provinces will have multiple cities since England and Wales are labeled as just "Britain."
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Mar 7, 2013 18:22
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Gimnbo posted:It looks like provinces will have multiple cities since England and Wales are labeled as just "Britain." The way "Britain" fades into the background, it might be the map labels changing as you zoom out, like in CK2. Or it might mean something deeper; like a hybrid between the NTW/ETW system of big regions but multiple cities and the usual TW system of provinces. It might even be similar tp CK2's duchy/county system where regions consist of several provinces, and holding the majority of the provinces means you're the "owner" or whatever.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:30
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SeanBeansShako posted:If they do the whole 'small European country/one or two slots' thing from ETW/NTW I will be sincerly pissed. Seriously. Glad to know Rome 2 is more like Antiquity: Total War with all the factions being awesome.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:45
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Sober posted:You can always rely on someone from TWC to make it much more elaborate. Maybe way too elaborate, like including a village the liked the name of that they found in a single source even though it literally only existed for maybe 5 years, it will be included and he will constantly update the location every patch, breaking a bunch of things but he wants to get it just right. Again, working with a single source. Until recently with Shogun 2, editing the campaign map with the modding tools has been impossible. And I doubt we'll see mod tools with Rome 2 anytime past release too. So yeah, sucked the fun out of that joke.
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Mar 7, 2013 18:48
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Inspired by this thread I fired up RTW again for the first time in ages, laying the smackdown through trade and agression as Scipii. One thing: Horses are every bit as fun as I remember. Roman factions supposedly have "weak" cavalry, but by flanking and cgharging, I've taken down massive stacks with just a couple of equites and my general. Second: I just love this quote. Lucretius posted:It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another. Third: I realize now how much I missed the random abilities of my generals.
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Mar 7, 2013 19:30
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Sober posted:You can always rely on someone from TWC to make it much more elaborate. Maybe way too elaborate, like including a village the liked the name of that they found in a single source even though it literally only existed for maybe 5 years, it will be included and he will constantly update the location every patch, breaking a bunch of things but he wants to get it just right. Again, working with a single source. My favourite bit of extra-mapping was the Rome: TOTAL REALISM mod which extended the map north to include modern-day Scotland, and then called the province (or the capital of it, I forget) 'Dalriada' - a kingdom that wouldn't exist for four hundred years after the end of the game's period. I found this particularly amusing for a mod which made such a song and dance about CA's base game being inaccurate and anachronistic.
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Mar 7, 2013 19:42
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I wish I had the time and patience to create a RTW strategic map with modern day borders just to cause a giant spergfest/Israel-Palestine slap fight.
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Mar 7, 2013 20:41
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Two hands over the side of a horse holding a spear looks incredibly awkward.
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Mar 7, 2013 20:50
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I wonder if they'll be keeping the Avatar system for Multiplayer. Once I managed to unlock Naginatas, Yari Cavalry and Horse Archers, I started winning over half my matches in Shogun 2. EDIT: If I do that "prestige" thing with my General, where I go from Copper Stars to Silver... what do I lose? My skillpoints? My unlocked units? My veterans? Azran fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Mar 7, 2013 |
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Mar 7, 2013 21:45
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toasterwarrior posted:The way "Britain" fades into the background, it might be the map labels changing as you zoom out, like in CK2. Or it might mean something deeper; like a hybrid between the NTW/ETW system of big regions but multiple cities and the usual TW system of provinces. It might even be similar tp CK2's duchy/county system where regions consist of several provinces, and holding the majority of the provinces means you're the "owner" or whatever. Considering this is all from an early Roman prospective, it's sort of accurate. The factions/realms from the time arn't very well recorded and from an outside perspective it might seem very simple and at the time it was. Lands and borders were very unconsistant and the entire of Britan was constently undergoing changes. Any lines are as good as any
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Mar 8, 2013 03:31
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Azran posted:I wonder if they'll be keeping the Avatar system for Multiplayer. Once I managed to unlock Naginatas, Yari Cavalry and Horse Archers, I started winning over half my matches in Shogun 2. I hope they do, and they should allow me to mix and match my avatar unrestricted, bring on the romano-celt-parthian clownsuits! 
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Mar 8, 2013 04:59
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Trujillo posted:Hopefully seleucids will be a preorder faction but at least they didn't leave parthia out. The bad news is they're not all wearing pink.
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Mar 8, 2013 05:19
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achillesforever6 posted:They are using both hands for the kontos, I don't know why, but that makes me happy. Because it means that they have actually been doing some research?
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Mar 8, 2013 10:21
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Because it means that they have actually been doing some research? And yet it's good odds that someone from TWC will make a mod moving the hands an inch into the "correct" position.
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Mar 8, 2013 10:40
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Captain Beans posted:Two hands over the side of a horse holding a spear looks incredibly awkward. They don't have stirrups, so they can't actually couch the lance. The 2 handed grip like that kind-of imitates couching as well as possible. Plus kontos means barge-pole in Greek, they're not light.
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Mar 8, 2013 13:29
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I started a TATW game as Dale on hard/hard but I'm not really enjoying it all that much. For a mod, the polish is exceptional (apart from the guy who does the unit voices and can't pronounce anything right) and it's been set up really well. The fact that it tries to send lots of minimum 5-star generals isn't even that bad because of a few really annoying things: They've totally screwed with the unit stats so now basically if you just go 9/10ths archers and some random unit to hold off their melee you can mow down every opposition with minimal casualties. This is just one example, the balance really is off. The worst offending thing though is morale. No one seems to rout unless they are down to one arm and dragging themselves across the floor. It's really annoying having to fight down to (hopefully their) last man because they refuse to quit. Have the mod people never watched the films or read the books? It's FULL of people and non-people running away! It's really put me off the mod because it takes 3 times as long to do anything in TATW as it does vanilla. concerned mom fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 13:38
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concerned mom posted:The worst offending thing though is moral. No one seems to rout unless they are down to one arm and dragging themselves across the floor. It's really annoying having to fight down to (hopefully their) last man because they refuse to quit. Have the mod people never watched the films or read the books? It's FULL of people and non-people running away! This describes 99% of all TWC modder's ideas of combat morale. It's not just Third Age or that particular group, they all want battles that take 3 hours at max speed because "realism".
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Mar 8, 2013 13:41
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That absolutely doesn't sound realistic, though. OK, I'm not the world's foremost expert on military history and tactics, but my understanding was that very few armies have had the morale and discipline to fight even up to 50% casualties if they're given an escape route.
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Mar 8, 2013 15:37
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It's not realistic at all; the point is that these people are the kind of people whose knowledge of historical militaries comes from Last Samurai and 13th Warrior.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:16
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They seem to forget the fact that these battles took days because thousands of guys constantly fought, fell back, attempted to reclaim and finally rout or win the battlefield. It is impossible to pull off such a scale with the TW engine, so they do the silly thing like turn that morale insanely high and double the unit count by two hundred. I think an average TW battle should only last 25-30 minutes top.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:21
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I'm going to make a mod where any sieging army has a 50% chance each turn to catch dysentery and die.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:29
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I've been playing Empire: TW again after reading some of the BBC let's play. If the AI actually existed it'd be an ok game. Such a waste.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:30
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My computer can't run the newer total war games well enough to enjoy, and M2 currently is my favorite total war game. But this 'abandon all siege equipment' bug for M2 with stainless steel (defensive battles bug) is seriously enough to get me to uninstall the game. This is bugging me and I'm not finding any submods or fixes that are compatible with the steam version of the game.  
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Mar 8, 2013 16:36
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The excuse given for TATW's high morale is that Tolkien's world was one of epic battles fought by noble heroes. It certainly isn't realistic but it sugars the pill enough for me to keep enjoying the mod. Do any of the RR/RC submods more accurately portray morale?
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Mar 8, 2013 17:28
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SeanBeansShako posted:They seem to forget the fact that these battles took days because thousands of guys constantly fought, fell back, attempted to reclaim and finally rout or win the battlefield. Though I would be interested to see someone try to pull off a real-time empire layer with a battle layer, almost as if you were playing Sins of a Solar Empire but that would require insane amounts of AI working if you wanted to just zoom out of a battle to do something else or if you wanted to focus on trying to initiate a pitched battle while your enemy just keeps getting away at every possible moment.
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Mar 8, 2013 17:35
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SeanBeansShako posted:They seem to forget the fact that these battles took days because thousands of guys constantly fought, fell back, attempted to reclaim and finally rout or win the battlefield. It is impossible to pull off such a scale with the TW engine, so they do the silly thing like turn that morale insanely high and double the unit count by two hundred. You're talking about a mod that has elves fighting orcs. They want epic battles, not realistic ones. And morale is increased in most TW mods because of gameplay reasons: It's far too easy to rout an entire army with good positioning and combined attacks. Creative Assembly puts the morale down because a new player doesn't know how to exploit the AI. And as far as realism goes - troop discipline has been quite variable throughout history; there's the disorganized peasant bands that don't want to fight in the first place, and then there's the Sacred Band of Thebes that died to a man in spite of unassailable odds when fighting the Macedonians. Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 17:50
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Kaal posted:You're talking about a mod that has elves fighting orcs. They want epic battles, not realistic ones. Waiting for fifteen minutes for a units morale to break with only 20 dudes and barely any ammunition is tedious, these people are wrong dammit. And I meant the whole modding scene not just a specific mod.
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Mar 8, 2013 17:57
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SeanBeansShako posted:Waiting for fifteen minutes for a units morale to break with only 20 dudes and barely any ammunition is tedious, these people are wrong dammit. And I meant the whole modding scene not just a specific mod. If you're having to wait fifteen minutes while units hammer it out, then you need to skirmish and flank more effectively.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:08
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Kaal posted:You're talking about a mod that has elves fighting orcs. They want epic battles, not realistic ones. Basically we want the game to play in slow motion for babies who can't handle TW games. That's what a lot of mods are.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:20
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Panzeh posted:Basically we want the game to play in slow motion for babies who can't handle TW games. That's what a lot of mods are. Low morale makes it easier to play because the AI is terrible at managing morale.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:29
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Kaal posted:If you're having to wait fifteen minutes while units hammer it out, then you need to skirmish and flank more effectively. This makes no difference with mods when the morale for everything is cranked up to eleven. It still takes too goddamn long. Also, gently caress this. Having the game crash in the last five minutes of a battle with two stacks just kills my will to play at all.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:57
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Its weird, I have played many mods (not the LOTR's one in particular though) and I have never run into to much moral problem. Hell there are several mods that have issues with two low morale, at least for some factions. I am looking at you Imperium Juliani.
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Mar 9, 2013 02:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Its weird, I have played many mods (not the LOTR's one in particular though) and I have never run into to much moral problem. Hell there are several mods that have issues with two low morale, at least for some factions. I am looking at you Imperium Juliani. High morale might just be to your taste; some people do like it, otherwise it wouldn't be so prevalent in mods. It's just particularly hilarious because most of the mods pride themselves on heightening the accuracy and then do stupid stuff to battles because of the modders' sense of fun, which is sort of why things aren't completely accurate in TW in the first place. In reality, morale in the vanilla games is much higher than it would be for conscripted armies historically. The high morale of the Romans was one of their strongest points, and it's probably still too high in TW. Placement of the levies to prevent them from legging it as soon as the fighting started was one of the most important things for an ancient general to consider 
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Mar 9, 2013 03:07
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Koramei posted:High morale might just be to your taste; some people do like it, otherwise it wouldn't be so prevalent in mods. It's just particularly hilarious because most of the mods pride themselves on heightening the accuracy and then do stupid stuff to battles because of the modders' sense of fun, which is sort of why things aren't completely accurate in TW in the first place. In reality, morale in the vanilla games is much higher than it would be for conscripted armies historically. The high morale of the Romans was one of their strongest points, and it's probably still too high in TW. Placement of the levies to prevent them from legging it as soon as the fighting started was one of the most important things for an ancient general to consider The vanilla RTW game has most units breaking nearly immediately. There is nothing realistic about that. Europa Barbarorum put the unit morale up quite a bit, and for good reason. Non-roman armies were not the kind of useless red shirts that we portray in our films. And units can still be broken very quickly in EB, I routinely cause much larger armies to flee (and be cut down) simply by positioning my army on a hill. If anyone is having problems with unit morale in a realistic mod (as opposed to TATW where some units are simply incapable of breaking), they probably just aren't doing it right. Morale is the AI's biggest weakness, and it's the principal difference between the tactical difficulty levels. Place your forces in a position of strength, soften up your enemy with ranged weapons, flank them with your cavalry, rout their weaker units, allow that rout to spread through their forces, and avoid surrounding the enemy or attacking them in a city's central square where they will fight to the death. You can also cause major morale penalties by killing their general, making them tired, or having overwhelming force. Kaal fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 14:00
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Kaal posted:The vanilla RTW game has most units breaking nearly immediately. There is nothing realistic about that. Europa Barbarorum put the unit morale up quite a bit, and for good reason. Non-roman armies were not the kind of useless red shirts that we portray in our films. And units can still be broken very quickly in EB, I routinely cause much larger armies to flee (and be cut down) simply by positioning my army on a hill. Hmm I guess I didn't often play past moderate battle difficulty but up to there they most certainly did not break immediately; usually they would take half casualties or more before they broke, and that is not even slightly realistic. What the TW morale system needs is for forces to easily break and reform a lot (if the line isn't held) if people want realism. Sitting in a meat grinder virtually never happened; in fact, as I said before, some forces would literally run off as soon as they saw the chance (namely every peasant levy ever). Koramei fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 16:26
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With shogun 2 gold out has anyone noticed that more people are playing multiplayer? I stopped because you'd spend more time trying to find a match than actually playing one. I'd check myself but it's uninstalled right now.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:00
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MadJackMcJack posted:And yet it's good odds that someone from TWC will make a mod moving the hands an inch into the "correct" position.  Kaal posted:Europa Barbarorum put the unit morale up quite a bit, and for good reason. Non-roman armies were not the kind of useless red shirts that we portray in our films. And units can still be broken very quickly in EB, I routinely cause much larger armies to flee (and be cut down) simply by positioning my army on a hill.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:53
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