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I haven't read Start of Darkness, but Xykon seems like kind of a crummy villian compared to guys like Malack and Redcloak. He just seems like a dick conquering the world and being evil just for the sake of being evil and conquering the world. His relationship with Redcloak is cool, but I'm hoping Redcloak takes him out and takes over primary antagonist duty at some point. It seems more likely that Xykon will end up killing Redcloak though, just because deals with the metaphorical devil for the greater good are rarely a thing that works out in fiction.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:57
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Coach Sport posted:I haven't read Start of Darkness, but Stop right there and go read Start of Darkness.
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Mar 8, 2013 17:03
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Speaking of Start of Darkness, I just finished rereading it last night, and this morning I had an epiphany about how Malack's been disguising his voice to hide his undead nature. SoD spoilers: Immediately after his transformation, Xykon notices his voice has changed and asks Redcloak what the deal is. Redcloak responds that because Xykon is a lich and doesn't "have a trachea or a larynx, much less lungs to expel air through them," that his voice is created magically by the negative energy powering him. But Malack is a vampire, not a lich. So he still has all those fleshy bits that Xykon now lacks. And even though he doesn't need to use them anymore, that doesn't mean he can't use them. So when he's talking with the normal white bubbles with black text, he's drawing air into his body and expeling it to talk just like a living person would; when he switches to the black boxes with white text, he's forgoing that and using the negative energy-created voice. 
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Mar 8, 2013 18:12
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I don't think either of those count as spoilers.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:56
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Well, the first one is quoting and talking about an actual scene from the book. And the second one is a hypothesis based off of what was talked about in the first one. Plus goons tend to be weird about what does and doesn't constitute a spoiler, so I figured better safe than sorry.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:01
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Just out of curiosity is there anything stopping an undead from polymorphing itself into a living creature?
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Mar 8, 2013 19:03
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Yes, the law of conservation of life. It says that 1/2(L^2)+1/2(D^2)+1/2(F^2) remains constant, where L is the amount of living mass, D is the amount of diamond dust and F is the amount of authorial fiat desperately trying to retain a modicum of conflict and suspense in a world where anything is possible if you have the right spell for it.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:29
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Triple Elation posted:Yes, the law of conservation of life. It says that 1/2(L^2)+1/2(D^2)+1/2(F^2) remains constant, where L is the amount of living mass, D is the amount of diamond dust and F is the amount of authorial fiat desperately trying to retain a modicum of conflict and suspense in a world where anything is possible if you have the right spell for it. Good show. It's rare I want to rate individual posts, but this is one of those times.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:30
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I cast polymorph object on the constant
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Mar 8, 2013 19:31
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Pope Guilty posted:Stop right there and go read Start of Darkness. That's an entirely reasonable criticism, though. He seems like a crummy villain in the comic because he has not gotten fleshed out at all compared to the other villains. It still works since Xykon's the villain to the villains so is set at a further distance and doesn't need to be as well characterized, but that doesn't mean the comic gets a pass on it because of a supplemental in an entirely different medium.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:36
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greatn posted:Just out of curiosity is there anything stopping an undead from polymorphing itself into a living creature? Polymorph does, but must target a willing living creature, so nope. Shapechange finally does work but it's 9th level. It lasts 10 minute/level, though, so yeah, by means of a power that very few mortals can comprehend let alone achieve (and 1500GP per casting) you are able to dodge your cursed fate for approx. three hours a day. Congratulations.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:49
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NihilCredo posted:Alter self doesn't change your type or subtype, so you'd still be undead. If Shapechange changes your type from undead, couldn't you subsequently be Polymorphed? Or does that not work for some reason?
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Mar 8, 2013 19:56
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UberJew posted:That's an entirely reasonable criticism, though. He seems like a crummy villain in the comic because he has not gotten fleshed out at all compared to the other villains. It still works since Xykon's the villain to the villains so is set at a further distance and doesn't need to be as well characterized, but that doesn't mean the comic gets a pass on it because of a supplemental in an entirely different medium. Xykon's backstory isn't explained in the comic, but his motivations are. From the comic alone, we know what he wants (world domination), what he's sacrificed to get it (his humanity), and how he plans on doing it (using his power to control the snarl). We know that he considers Power to be the ultimate weapon in sufficient quantities (evil monologue while fighting V), but we know that he knows how to use his power intelligently (again, vs V, when he used his bonuses to listen to find V, who was invisible). We also know that he's cunning enough to use that power in unexpected ways (bouncy ball vs Sapphire Guard). While Start of Darkness is great, and it's really good to get a direct view into Xykon in a condensed package, we can't say that we haven't seen the same things in the comic itself.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:00
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ConfusedUs posted:Xykon's backstory isn't explained in the comic, but his motivations are. From the comic alone, we know what he wants (world domination), what he's sacrificed to get it (his humanity), and how he plans on doing it (using his power to control the snarl). That's why I said it works fine in the comic. He doesn't need to be the subject of as much character focus as the other villains and it definitely defines him well enough for the needs of the story in the comic itself.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:13
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Niton posted:If Shapechange changes your type from undead, couldn't you subsequently be Polymorphed? Or does that not work for some reason? You could be polymorphed, but the polymorph would only last as long as your type remain not-undead, so it would expire along with the shapechange spell and your own brief new life.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:13
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A baleful polymorph looks like it might work, then you could subsequently be regular polymorphed.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:18
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greatn posted:A baleful polymorph looks like it might work, then you could subsequently be regular polymorphed.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:21
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You can't use Permanancy on a Shapechange, can you? How about on Polymorph? What if you were originally a creature with a natural polymorph ability (do Pixies still have that?) and you get turned into some form of undead? Do you lose the spell-like ability because you are no longer a valid target for the spell, or would you retain it? And if you do, can you use that to polymorph into not-undead things?
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Mar 8, 2013 20:29
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Ashcans posted:You can't use Permanancy on a Shapechange, can you? How about on Polymorph? Permanency has a limited list of spells to which it applies, and neither are on it. (There is the Persistent Spell feat, but (a) you'd need a 15th level slot to cast a Persistent shapechange, ie. basically be a god already (b) it's a dumb feat that few smart DMs allow (c) as fun as munchkining this stuff is, it's probably better if we stick to core rules for the sake of everybody's sanity.) quote:What if you were originally a creature with a natural polymorph ability (do Pixies still have that?) and you get turned into some form of undead? Do you lose the spell-like ability because you are no longer a valid target for the spell, or would you retain it? And if you do, can you use that to polymorph into not-undead things?
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Mar 8, 2013 20:45
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Yeah, don't need every hypothetical, I was just curious. The idea of an undead going living for a few hours and getting kind of a "high" off of life seemed like it might be interesting. But anyone who turned themselves into a Lich probably just wouldn't give a gently caress about having flesh and blood anyway. Durkon's lucky, he gets the best of both worlds. At least by vampire lore I know, the vamp feels more alive and gets a nice Rosy complexion after feeding. Xykon is stuck as a lame skellington. Best he can do is put a snake in his eyes and join a motorcycle gang, or maybe tie dye himself and go party on dia de Los Muertos. greatn fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 21:07
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greatn posted:] Xykon (start of darkness) was really pissed when he found out he couldn't taste or smell anymore
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Mar 8, 2013 21:33
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ConfusedUs posted:Xykon (start of darkness) was really pissed when he found out he couldn't taste or smell anymore Dominate let's you experience whatever is happening to the subject right? He should mass dominate and pig out, go hog wild.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:38
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greatn posted:tie dye himself and go party on dia de Los Muertos. Oh, if Xykon were to do that, it would be the BEST THING
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Mar 8, 2013 21:38
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greatn posted:Dominate let's you experience whatever is happening to the subject right? He should mass dominate and pig out, go hog wild. What an interesting idea. An undead villain keeping dominated thralls around specifically for the purpose of having them experience the luxuries his body no longer supports.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:41
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oobey posted:What an interesting idea. An undead villain keeping dominated thralls around specifically for the purpose of having them experience the luxuries his body no longer supports. While tie dyed.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:43
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greatn posted:Dominate let's you experience whatever is happening to the subject right? He should mass dominate and pig out, go hog wild. This is a pretty interesting concept actually. I remember seeing similar ideas in other works, but has it been done in D&D?
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Mar 8, 2013 22:04
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oobey posted:What an interesting idea. An undead villain keeping dominated thralls around specifically for the purpose of having them experience the luxuries his body no longer supports.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:07
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greatn posted:Dominate let's you experience whatever is happening to the subject right? He should mass dominate and pig out, go hog wild. Not exactly. Dominate lets you know what the subject is experiencing, but it does not give direct sensory input. A lich would know "my minion is enjoying a meal" but not let the lich experience the flavor of that steak. What the lich wants is Magic Jar, which puts his essence into the body of another being. For most liches, this is not a problem because Magic Jar is required for the creation of a phylactery. Xykon, however, is most likely screwed in that regard.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:55
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There's a psychic character called Mindfuck in Adam Warren's Empowered comic series that taps into other people's senses to experience things like taste, since she doesn't have a tongue. So not DnD, but in case it's bugging anybody else where they might've heard of something like that before.
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Mar 9, 2013 00:41
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It's an old staple of ghost stories that the reason the "possessed" often commit uncontrollably lewd acts (stripping naked, shouting obscenities, masturbating in public) is that the damned souls crave the pleasures of the flesh above anything else. I think it may be based on actual Victorian spiritist beliefs, in fact.
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Mar 9, 2013 01:14
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Well, looks like I've got another viable defence for my indecent exposure case. I probably missed it coming up in this thread, but has anyone made the possible connection between Durkon returning to his homeland as a vampire and the prophecy? 'Cause that seems like quite the possibility.
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Mar 9, 2013 01:50
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:Well, looks like I've got another viable defence for my indecent exposure case. At least once per page ever since it was revealed that Malack's a vampire.
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Mar 9, 2013 01:53
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Guys, I think Durkon returning home as a vampire might just be what fulfills the prophecy... By the way, what's this about the previous gate-keepers being trapped in a gem, and where in the comic has this gem been seen?
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Mar 9, 2013 04:19
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TheAceOfLungs posted:Guys, I think Durkon returning home as a vampire might just be what fulfills the prophecy... Not in the comic, in Start of Darkness. We've been rambling on about it lately, you may have noticed. e: unless that line is also a joke and I'm dumb.
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Mar 9, 2013 04:25
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Start of Darkness spoilers: Xykon imprisons Lirien's soul in a gem when he takes her Gate, because she's a druid and he figures that being removed from the natural cycle of life and death is the best way to piss her off. He uses Lirien's entrapped soul to taunt Dorukan into a fight, and when he wins that fight he sticks Dorukan in the same gem, figuring the torture will be even worse if they both have to see the other one like that. It backfires; now they're together, so they're both fine with it. Xykon is still presumably carrying the gem around.
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Mar 9, 2013 04:54
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CapnAndy posted:Start of Darkness spoilers Does that still persist even though Xykon had to regenerate his body after Roy threw him into the gate? I wonder if he'd regenerate any extra items on his person (or even a new robe, for that matter).
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Mar 9, 2013 05:07
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TunaSpleen posted:Does that still persist even though Xykon had to regenerate his body after Roy threw him into the gate? I wonder if he'd regenerate any extra items on his person (or even a new robe, for that matter). It doesn't make much sense to regenerate clothing, but he had a robe while Redcloak was hauling him around. Neither the gem nor the contents have been mentioned, but I'm going to assume Redcloak acquired both it and Xykon's robe in the post-detonation confusion.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:30
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Ursine Asylum posted:It doesn't make much sense to regenerate clothing Didn't Durkon heal Elan's cloak once?
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Mar 9, 2013 05:41
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Pope Guilty posted:Didn't Durkon heal Elan's cloak once? In like one of the first 20 comics, yeah. Also Belkar's dagger magically shrunk because they moved to the 3.5 ruleset and they had 3 or 4 jokes played "straight" about missing listen/spot checks on ninja hordes and 20 foot tall chimeras. It does make me wonder if Rich is ever going to retcon that first dungeon adventure, given that it's "unserious gag a day D&D jokes" bracketed on both sides with "serious drama with occasional pokes at D&D rulesets".
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Mar 9, 2013 06:21
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Ursine Asylum posted:It does make me wonder if Rich is ever going to retcon that first dungeon adventure, given that it's "unserious gag a day D&D jokes" bracketed on both sides with "serious drama with occasional pokes at D&D rulesets".
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Mar 9, 2013 06:32
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