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01011001 posted:Joke though that was, you may not be too far off on the EA bit. I would assume if they're open to licensing it that they're hoping it gets snapped up by Bioware so they can ride that gravy train. Yeah. Too bad the engineers derailed the train awhile back huh? As long as this game has plenty of player reactivity regarding your choices I will get my money's worth. Too many games these days don't take advantage of the potential for that kind of thing and are too fixated on being a carbon copy of a summer blockbuster movie.
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Mar 8, 2013 07:32
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I'm in for a deeper DD copy, but I think I'm going to stop with the physicals after Dreamfall Chapters. The campaign setting seems to be pretty cool from what little I've read even prior to TToN being even news prior to the KS campaign. The premise of the game seems pretty cool even if it seems to skirt fairly close to some of the things that were in PST, which I'm totally fine with. Feels like a SS2 = Bioshock situation where some of the basic premises/structures seem the same. I'm curious if "Torment" were to becoming a thing like -Shock games became a sort of structuralized thing you can work around? As in "Torment" would become some open-ended narrative heavy RPG featuring immortals (or it seems like an interesting twist vs. the way PS handled it, but fairly similar) and posing a philosophical question that they expect the player to think about and trope-breaking characterizations whereas (Bio)-shock games are structured similarly in terms of level design, combat encounters/mechanics, etc.
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Mar 8, 2013 08:06
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Sober posted:I'm curious if "Torment" were to becoming a thing like -Shock games became a sort of structuralized thing you can work around?
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Mar 8, 2013 08:35
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If they want to bring in some money from PnP fans (and especially those who were already in for the original Numenera kickstarter), they should get Monte to write another source book, about the Bloom or something equivalent that wasn't in the standard Numenera setting. Then offer that as a PDF or hardcover book to backers as an add-on (at a very slightly discounted price to what you'd buy it at when it comes out properly). The first tier with the corebook is full, so there's clearly some crossover.
CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 14:02
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I never heard of this Monte Cook guy and didn't know he was so beloved and appreciated by RPG fans. Is it deserved? Not familiar at all with his work (except for Planescape: Torment which I guess is only tangentially thanks to him).
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Mar 8, 2013 18:41
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Mex posted:I never heard of this Monte Cook guy and didn't know he was so beloved and appreciated by RPG fans. Is it deserved? Not familiar at all with his work (except for Planescape: Torment which I guess is only tangentially thanks to him). Here you go: https://www.montecookgames.com/bibliography/gamedesign/
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Mar 8, 2013 18:53
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Mex posted:I never heard of this Monte Cook guy and didn't know he was so beloved and appreciated by RPG fans. Is it deserved? Not familiar at all with his work (except for Planescape: Torment which I guess is only tangentially thanks to him). I want to say... sorta? He's got some neat ideas from time to time and came up with some fairly unique stuff for Planescape. His mechanics leave something to be desired, though. Looking at Numenera briefly it is definitely a very modern-style take on classic RPG systems leaning more towards storygame mechanics (please don't ask), which is a departure from his history working on previous d20 products.
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Mar 8, 2013 18:58
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If you own anything D&D, odds are his name might be in or on the book, depending.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:01
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Mex posted:I never heard of this Monte Cook guy and didn't know he was so beloved and appreciated by RPG fans. Is it deserved? Not familiar at all with his work (except for Planescape: Torment which I guess is only tangentially thanks to him). Depends who you ask. In general he makes solid settings and iffy mechanics, but there have been exceptions to both.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:02
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Thanks, but not owning any of those books I'm about in the same place as before... My experience with RPGs is on the PC, so I know about D&D and other settings but not the "Real" rpg side. parasyte posted:I want to say... sorta? He's got some neat ideas from time to time and came up with some fairly unique stuff for Planescape. His mechanics leave something to be desired, though. Looking at Numenera briefly it is definitely a very modern-style take on classic RPG systems leaning more towards storygame mechanics (please don't ask), which is a departure from his history working on previous d20 products. Ok, so I suppose it's a good thing he's in there. Looking at his site, the dude seems pretty smart and creative, and definitely invested in his line of work. Still, I'm curious... what do you mean "Storygame mechanics"?
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Mar 8, 2013 19:30
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Pyradox posted:I don't know about you but I'd definitely play Call of Duty: The Blood War. Every goon's hard drive holds frightful wonders.   
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Mar 8, 2013 19:33
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Mex posted:Still, I'm curious... what do you mean "Storygame mechanics"? Story Game mechanics means non-combat stuff i.e., how do you interact with people, have arguments, search for things. All the stuff that DnD is absolutely piss awful at is storygame. Monte Cook has a very mixed track record. He's worked on multiple DnD products but at the same time he's viewed as not being particularly concerned with class balance or modernizing the gameplay of those games. The developers have already said they're going to use a modified system which will hopefully help patch up his typical short comings in the development aspect.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:43
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To be fair, I can think of very few balanced RPGs in general, at least as far as video games go. So as long as it's not an unfun slog for like half the classes it should be fine.
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Mar 8, 2013 19:59
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01011001 posted:To be fair, I can think of very few balanced RPGs in general, at least as far as video games go. So as long as it's not an unfun slog for like half the classes it should be fine. I would advise against playing a melee class, especially anything resembling a fighter if his idea of class balance remains consistent.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:05
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Oh my god I've been laughing at this for a while now. Amazing.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:26
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Barudak posted:I would advise against playing a melee class, especially anything resembling a fighter if his idea of class balance remains consistent. Yeah. Word to the wise is roll whatever the closest thing to wizard is.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:30
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01011001 posted:Yeah. Word to the wise is roll whatever the closest thing to wizard is. As I understand it, Nanos are basically Numenera's version of sci-fi wizards, Glaives are warriors and Jacks are rogues. But the playtest stuff that Monte has released publicly on his blog talks about Jacks wielding illusions, so I don't think it's as simple as 'only Nanos can use sci-fi magic'. EDIT: And obviously, we have no idea how close the game is going to be to the PnP stuff. They seem to be going for the 'freely change your class' angle again, for example. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 21:39
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01011001 posted:Joke though that was, you may not be too far off on the EA bit. I would assume if they're open to licensing it that they're hoping it gets snapped up by Bioware so they can ride that gravy train. I doubt that will ever happen. I believe they swore off DnD after Neverwinter Nights.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:56
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Quarex posted:Also I just looked up the "Wizards of the Coast licensing Planescape" thing, and it sounds like they are willing to license it, but not to Brian Fargo. Or Colin McComb. Clearly they are waiting for Electronic Arts to propose a first-person Call of Duty/Planescape crossover game. Wizards of the Coast has some very interesting licensing issues. Basically they are gun shy as gently caress at the moment, because Atari screwed them bad with their exclusive license. WotC also suffers from this problem where one head doesn't know what the other is doing, so while the team working on the upcoming "D&D Next" are appealing to nostalgics on the internet and would probably have loved a PS:T torment, Monte Cook (who recently left that team) probably wouldn't if he wants to relive his planescape glory days with Numenera. The "marketing licensed IPs" department meanwhile hasn't gotten the memo that nostalgia is the new king in D&D land and are still hyping the distinctively modern Neverwinter MMO.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:01
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Red_Mage posted:Wizards of the Coast has some very interesting licensing issues. Basically they are gun shy as gently caress at the moment, because Atari screwed them bad with their exclusive license. WotC also suffers from this problem where one head doesn't know what the other is doing, so while the team working on the upcoming "D&D Next" are appealing to nostalgics on the internet and would probably have loved a PS:T torment, Monte Cook (who recently left that team) probably wouldn't if he wants to relive his planescape glory days with Numenera. The "marketing licensed IPs" department meanwhile hasn't gotten the memo that nostalgia is the new king in D&D land and are still hyping the distinctively modern Neverwinter MMO. Not to mention that if you're a game developer using Next in its current state is unworkable (and may always be so due to conscious design choices) while at the same time you can't use 4e because Wizards is intent on already starting the hype train for Next and any new 4e product conflicts with that. Compounded with the waning brand equity of DnD if you're going to buy the rights just for a setting and throw out all the rules and trappings of the property you're probably not going to get much bang for your buck with DnD.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:05
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So basically, WotC is a licensing nightmare machine, and the Torment crew using a robust new fantasy theme should be regarded as a blessing. That's the impression I'm taking.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:08
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Lord Lambeth posted:I doubt that will ever happen. I believe they swore off DnD after Neverwinter Nights. Yeah, I don't see it ever happening, but that's how I interpreted that odd series of events. WotC has done stranger things for sure.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:28
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The new $28 dollar tier is live if anyone wanted that.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:34
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5er posted:So basically, WotC is a licensing nightmare machine, and the Torment crew using a robust new fantasy theme should be regarded as a blessing. That's the impression I'm taking. Maybe. My biggest apprehension about this is that 1. Wasteland 2 isn't out yet, so there's no real assurance that the engine/gameplay will be good and 2. Numenera isn't out yet, so there's no real assurance that the setting will be good. I mean the game will probably be well written, they've got the chops for that, but its really bizarre to see something trading on the IP/engine of 2 different things that aren't out yet, and only made what they did by trading on past history.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:57
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A thought just occurred to me. There's been some talk in Trad Games about making the P&P RPG's relevant again by bringing them to the modern world with robust virtual tabletop apps for easy online play and community features for easy game finding. Monte Cook and Numenera are in the position of having a reasonably high profile computer game in the works and a close working relationship with an actual honest to god video game company. If Torment turns out good and popular and Monte got inXile to work on making the official tools and the community features for playing "tabletop" Numenera online, they could bargain Torment's popularity into making Numenera the new D&D and drag the tabletop RPG indusrty into the modern age. Thoughts? I'd especially like to hear what Brother None thinks about this, since he's our link to the dev team.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:41
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Updated my donation.NihilCredo posted:If someone seriously wanted to enjoy PS:T as a book (maybe during commuting or whatnot), there is another novelization that is simply the game's dialogue from a playthrough, with just enough extra narration to connect it together. It's not better than the game or even than ShadowFoxWolfCat's LP, but it's definitely better than the official one. In fact, it's the first google result for "planescape torment book" or "planescape torment novelization" (the official one is fourth and thirteenth, respectively). This was from a few pages ago, but seriously, SCB's LP is pure art, an extremely rare case of fan content being as good and complimenting the base material. http://lparchive.org/Planescape-Torment/ That is the only Planescape:Torment you should read.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:45
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Okasvi posted:A thought just occurred to me. There's been some talk in Trad Games about making the P&P RPG's relevant again by bringing them to the modern world with robust virtual tabletop apps for easy online play and community features for easy game finding. Monte Cook and Numenera are in the position of having a reasonably high profile computer game in the works and a close working relationship with an actual honest to god video game company. There is no drat way Numenera is going to be the next D&D, as far as widespread appeal. An extremely wordy RPG based around high concepts is not going to change that based on general appeal. But if they do make a good virtual tabletop toolset on a shoestring budget, that might inspire a few of the A-listers to take note and follow suit.
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Mar 9, 2013 00:01
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01011001 posted:There is no drat way Numenera is going to be the next D&D, as far as widespread appeal. An extremely wordy RPG based around high concepts is not going to change that based on general appeal. But if they do make a good virtual tabletop toolset on a shoestring budget, that might inspire a few of the A-listers to take note and follow suit. I was mostly thinking, what if they tried to expand the P&P RPG market? Use Torment as a stepping stone, make a new kickstarter for the software and community services after Torment is finished, try to get the tools on Steam, get some new blood into the P&P hobby from the video game hobby, maybe go after the MMO crowd, and so on. This of course assumes that Torment turns out popular. But retro CRPG:s seem to be in lately, what with all of these kickstarters and Grimrock doing so well, so I didn't think it was that outrageous an assumption to make. Edit: I mean the reason why P&P roleplaying is so niche is that D&D, the biggest brand in the hobby, has become too complicated to work as an introductory game, and that it takes too much commitment to get a good game going. Based on the website for the P&P Numenera, it seems simple enough to help with the first issue and thanks to the association with Torment IP, it has greater brand recognition than most other P&P RPG:s, excluding D&D. While the second issue could be fixed by making online play as simple as jumping into an MMO. Edit 2: Also D&D Next seems to be busy catering to nostalgia, so they don't have to fear competition from that direction any time soon. Edit 3: And Monte is already working together with inXile on Torment, so they have a leg up any other P&P RPG companies that might want to go digital in that they don't have to find a new company to do the software. And if the two guys at Wolfire can throw Desperate Gods together in one week during a gamejam, imagine what inXile could do if you gave them time and an actual budget. I mean I don't claim to be an expert but it seems like there's an opportunity there. Oo Koo fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 00:17
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Oh man, new Torment game. Dare I hope to dream?  ...But hell, $45 for new Torment and Wasteland 2? How can you say no to that? Berk Berkly posted:This was from a few pages ago, but seriously, SCB's LP is pure art, an extremely rare case of fan content being as good and complimenting the base material. Chris Avellone got a hold of it and enjoyed it- though didn't finish it- so that should say something.
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Mar 9, 2013 03:32
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GetWellGamers posted:Chris Avellone got a hold of it and enjoyed it- though didn't finish it- so that should say something. I don't think it does. If I wrote a book I'm probably not going to want to read someone else's rewrite of my book. It has nothing about the quality of their book, just that I have no desire to read something pretty drat similar to what I've already written.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:52
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Drifter posted:I don't think it does. If I wrote a book I'm probably not going to want to read someone else's rewrite of my book. It has nothing about the quality of their book, just that I have no desire to read something pretty drat similar to what I've already written. I think what GWG meant was that it said something that Avellone enjoyed it, even though he didn't finish it.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:55
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Drifter posted:I don't think it does. If I wrote a book I'm probably not going to want to read someone else's rewrite of my book. It has nothing about the quality of their book, just that I have no desire to read something pretty drat similar to what I've already written.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:55
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*shrug* I haven't finished reading the LP either, and it's seriously one of my favorites, up there with the Icewind Dale 2 one as far as enjoyment goes. Not finishing it doesn't really say anything about the quality of the LP.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:07
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Okasvi posted:Edit: I mean the reason why P&P roleplaying is so niche is that D&D, the biggest brand in the hobby, has become too complicated to work as an introductory game "Has become"?  If anything, 4e is by far the most accessible of any release. That is an interesting idea about the future of Numenera, though. I'm sure Monte and friends are hoping to continue into something like that.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:30
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I don't know, the only thing that really makes 4e more accessible then other versions are it's online character builder, without that it's probably the most complex game to create a character in then any other edition. It's definitely the most complex game to actually play in since it plays like an actual strategy war game (I say this as a good thing but it doesn't make it less complex). I'm actually more interested in Numera now that I hear it's going for a simpler more storygamey approach instead of just another D&D thing. Then again I feel like Dungeon World already does that pretty well, so not sure what Numera is going to try to do to compete?
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Mar 9, 2013 06:50
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FRINGE posted:I think he meant the "and enjoyed it" part. Yeah, that. It took SCB four years to write it, and nearly as long to read it all. I think as a pdf it was over half a gig. I wasn't ever expecting him to finish it, but I'm glad he got far enough to like what he saw.
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Mar 9, 2013 07:29
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GetWellGamers posted:Yeah, that. It took SCB four years to write it, and nearly as long to read it all. I think as a pdf it was over half a gig. I wasn't ever expecting him to finish it, but I'm glad he got far enough to like what he saw. Is there a PDF version of it? I'd read it but would prefer to have it as something on Goodreader where I can flip it once in a while without having to go online.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:01
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GetWellGamers posted:Oh man, new Torment game. Dare I hope to dream? A couple of times in the next year I'll buy cheaper pizza or maybe wait for a sale on a game I want. I just compensated for the money I've paid for these two kickstarters.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:02
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New tier charts (they're not on the ks page yet):  And the new stretch goal: 
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Mar 9, 2013 08:28
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Hmm... i wonder if they're not spreading their stretch goal tiers a little wide. Half a million a go i a *big* gap, and I remember with P:E there was a lot of excitement because every 100K brought, at the least, a new level in the endless dungeon, and then "major" additions were every 2-300K at most. Plus you could get levels from the facebook likes, and the overall effect was one of constant momentum-building because you'd get something new and exciting o a very frequent basis. Obviously they're doing okay now, but I think it might hurt them in the middle stretch when people check for three or four days in a row, see they're still 250K from the next goal, and go "welp, they've plateaued, no reason to go any further..."
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Mar 9, 2013 08:29
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