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Trujillo posted:With shogun 2 gold out has anyone noticed that more people are playing multiplayer? I stopped because you'd spend more time trying to find a match than actually playing one. I'd check myself but it's uninstalled right now. Yep! There a lot more people around, though for some reason I still get the "No response from the host" whenever I try to join 80% of the available hosted games. Matchmaking works just fine.
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Mar 9, 2013 17:56
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Does anyone know how to produce a functional economy as Spain in Medieval II's Americas campaign? I keep running waaaay into the red.
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Mar 9, 2013 18:03
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When Roman infantry threw their Pila, even on high difficulty, it would cause enough of a morale shock to put most enemy infantry one step away from routing. Which then happened when they were hit by the follow-up charge. If your Rome battles didn't result in the enemy army routing almost immediately then you were bad at the game. e: ^^ never stop attacking, never stop pillaging. None of those campaigns are about 'stability'.
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Mar 9, 2013 18:49
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Alchenar posted:When Roman infantry threw their Pila, even on high difficulty, it would cause enough of a morale shock to put most enemy infantry one step away from routing. Which then happened when they were hit by the follow-up charge. That may be the reason  I guess I'll have to test it but I remember fighting plenty of units that would be fine with suiciding themselves. They chain rout easily, I do remember that, but that's sort of the point of the battles. I do tend to favour heavy bow armies though and they don't produce the same kind of morale impact as a charge does.but surely killing off most of the enemy rather than having them get away makes me better at the game! 
Koramei fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 19:00
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Alchenar posted:When Roman infantry threw their Pila, even on high difficulty, it would cause enough of a morale shock to put most enemy infantry one step away from routing. Which then happened when they were hit by the follow-up charge. The strongest element of morale breaking in any Roman Army was the General's Bodyguard
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Mar 9, 2013 19:03
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Donderbuss Cavalry.  Wow, talk about wrecking units huh.Also, the Melee General is so much fun.  Charging straight into a yari ashigaru unit and killing half their members before losing one of mine is so loving amazing. 
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Mar 9, 2013 20:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Does anyone know how to produce a functional economy as Spain in Medieval II's Americas campaign? I keep running waaaay into the red. Do what I did and begrudgingly cheat-code in more money as "gifts from the crown" once you've got the obvious monopoly on ports and have a full-stack army of conquistadors rampaging most of the continental US. ...worked for me. 
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Mar 10, 2013 02:16
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Koramei posted:but surely killing off most of the enemy rather than having them get away makes me better at the game! Hah yeah, except for RTW allows cavalry to absolutely devastate routing enemies, which makes for the kind of lopsided battles where you suffer 120 casualties and inflict 2000, despite being heavily outnumbered and having basic units. It's kind of ridiculous, and I agree with you that it'd be nice if they could turn and reform quicker. As it is, they practically walk off the field before they're willing to reform, which makes it very easy for a single cavalry unit to stay on the heels of an entire routing army. Mans posted:That will be actually inches further away from the actual position they were used in Your cavalry probably isn't actually charging if they are getting bogged down. It should make a trumpet sound and the archers should go flying - morale or no. Make sure they are far enough away to start a charge, but not so far away that they are exhausted when they hit. And then pull them away after the charge is complete, rather than engaging in a general melee. Horses are terrible at that sort of thing, so just prepare them for another charge. In EB, most archers will break after one or two charges, largely dependent on whether they are close to allies or not. Kaal fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 02:28
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Hey so how do I not suck balls at Total War, Napoleon version?
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Mar 10, 2013 11:17
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CisMaleTheSensitiv posted:Hey so how do I not suck balls at Total War, Napoleon version? What is your problem? Strategy during battles or on the campaign map?
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Mar 10, 2013 11:21
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Get money. Trade with absolutely everyone, upgrade your roads, upgrade economy buildings. Also, use lots of cannons. Every army (once your economy can sustain full stacks) should have 4-5 units of artillery in it.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:32
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Kaal posted:Hah yeah, except for RTW allows cavalry to absolutely devastate routing enemies, which makes for the kind of lopsided battles where you suffer 120 casualties and inflict 2000, despite being heavily outnumbered and having basic units. It's kind of ridiculous, and I agree with you that it'd be nice if they could turn and reform quicker. As it is, they practically walk off the field before they're willing to reform, which makes it very easy for a single cavalry unit to stay on the heels of an entire routing army. The problem fundamentally is that CA have to try to balance the need for 'authenticity' in battles with the need to produce battles that can be played in 15-20 minutes in one go without saving. That necessarily produces a whole set of conditions on scale, pacing, lethality, etc. The three engines they've produced so far have gotten better and better at squeezing more authenticity while keeping to that 15-20 minute playability window, it'll be interesting to see what emerges with Rome 2.
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Mar 10, 2013 12:17
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Krazyface posted:Get money. Trade with absolutely everyone, upgrade your roads, upgrade economy buildings. Arrange your line like this too. ======== <All your line shmucks, they will attack or defend and take the brunt of the enemy line. Keep your General with this one. Support with bigger stationary guns. ==---< These guys are some line and your Grenadiers and Elite foot. Form them up to the right of the main line then concentrate on trying to get them angled so they are shooting down the enemies flank. Harass Artillery/Cav with your own. Using Horse Artillery with these guys is optional.
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Mar 10, 2013 15:22
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Man, Shogun 2 is so much better than Empire. It's nice having tactics deeper than right click drag out line wait for AI to walk into range of my firing squads.  Edit: Empire Total War has almost as many current players and peaked higher than Shogun 2 today, almost doubling Napoleon. What is wrong with people? Me included obviously. 
Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 16:45
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Tommofork posted:Man, Shogun 2 is so much better than Empire. It's nice having tactics deeper than right click drag out line wait for AI to walk into range of my firing squads. I think a lot of people just like Empire's size, three different continents to play with. I always enjoyed it but the AI was so atrocious it wasn't too much fun once you figured out how to beat it.
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Mar 10, 2013 17:53
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Alchenar posted:The problem fundamentally is that CA have to try to balance the need for 'authenticity' in battles with the need to produce battles that can be played in 15-20 minutes in one go without saving. That necessarily produces a whole set of conditions on scale, pacing, lethality, etc. The three engines they've produced so far have gotten better and better at squeezing more authenticity while keeping to that 15-20 minute playability window, it'll be interesting to see what emerges with Rome 2. Oh totally, but EB doesn't have that limitation so I wish they had been able to go in and change that aspect of tactical play. I shouldn't be able to rout an army and then send in my general to single-handedly kill 1500 people. Really I'd prefer if the entire rout mechanic is reworked in R2TW, because it's pretty clunky.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:36
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Tommofork posted:Man, Shogun 2 is so much better than Empire. It's nice having tactics deeper than right click drag out line wait for AI to walk into range of my firing squads. You walked dudes or ran dudes as a line into a another line and hit them with swords instead. I don't really see much of a difference.
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Mar 10, 2013 18:44
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SeanBeansShako posted:You walked dudes or ran dudes as a line into a another line and hit them with swords instead. I don't really see much of a difference. The triangle of Infantry, Cavalry, and Archers works better when Infantry and Archers aren't the same unit and Cavalry actually has some worth. I love me my Napoleonic combat, but fundamentally it just isn't that interesting or deep when Total War does it. Swords and Shields combat lets you have a clash of lines and actually try tactics with the wings without fear that everything will melt to massed firepower before you have a chance to put a plan together.
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Mar 10, 2013 19:04
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Sleep of Bronze posted:That absolutely doesn't sound realistic, though. OK, I'm not the world's foremost expert on military history and tactics, but my understanding was that very few armies have had the morale and discipline to fight even up to 50% casualties if they're given an escape route. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_lund
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Mar 10, 2013 19:11
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There are exceptions; someone brought up the Thebean sacred band, and especially in situations where there was more of an existential threat, the defenders would more openly fight to their deaths. In RTW dudes on the walls will often fight to the last man, which may just be because of pathfinding bugs but it still makes more sense. It's just that most forces wouldn't; even the Romans weren't suicidal. Think realistically of how you would feel if you were forced into combat. Self preservation is a constant through history; people don't like dying if they can help it. Many formations are in fact aimed more at forcing people to not run away than being a cohesive fighting force. I definitely agree with Kaal though that retreating forces shouldn't be quite so helpless. At least in Shogun 2 they'll stop to engage, and I have had times where the routers killed a pursuer, although that's like less than one for every hundred. Once the routers lose cohesiveness the pursuers will tend to as well, since they get all caught up in the looting. Being able to reform from a rout or feign a rout was a rare skill that could basically singlehandedly win battles. See: Mongols. FlyingCowOfDoom posted:I think a lot of people just like Empire's size, three different continents to play with. I always enjoyed it but the AI was so atrocious it wasn't too much fun once you figured out how to beat it. Empire's campaign is pretty fun when you do things that don't need AI . Massed artillery is immensely entertaining. And yeah, the scope of the campaign map is great. A lot of people here think more localized campaigns are what CA does better, and while I won't disagree with that, TW's engine seems so suited to ridiculous scale. The little campaigns in NTW were executed well but just left me wanting more. In the more open TW games you basically never finish a campaign since you get so bogged down, but I don't think that's a bad thing.
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Mar 10, 2013 19:40
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Koramei posted:In RTW dudes on the walls will often fight to the last man, which may just be because of pathfinding bugs but it still makes more sense. This is just an aside, but this shouldn't be happening either. Walls strengthen the resolve of enemies, but I routinely chase units off the walls and slaughter them in the streets. I think that what's happening for you is that your archer-heavy armies are crushing the morale of your enemies, but since you never move in the rout catalyst of a melee unit, your opponents never break. If you want someone to run away, you need to chase after them a bit - not just shoot arrows at them. Try a more combined-arms approach, and make sure to put your cursor over enemy units to see what their morale and tiredness levels are like.
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Mar 10, 2013 19:52
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Is there much in the ways of mods/submods for M2:TW these days that have things like interesting trait systems while also not crippling your starting economy/maintenence costs so you can't even have a single full stack without going bankrupt? (Byg's Grim Reality submods for SS, i'm looking at you). or heck, ANY good mods that aren't the 3 year without updates SS.
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Mar 10, 2013 20:09
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Samopsa posted:What is your problem? Strategy during battles or on the campaign map? The answers below your post helped alot. Mainly it was dealing with mass line infantry. The AI likes to make a line across the map so I don't really see an opening to flank. Any flanking that does happens tends to be by the moment, 2 regiments or so at a time breaking off from their line to shoot up or charge the side. Also that line has a hilarious tendency to just crash against mine whether its vanilla line or (heh) militia. So far what I'm doing is this: 4 foot arty one howitzer i got in the italian campaign from dunking mantua. 2 Light Cav (Chesseurs) and as many fusiliers/revolutionary infantry I can throw in there whilst I work on my second stack.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:11
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SeanBeansShako posted:You walked dudes or ran dudes as a line into a another line and hit them with swords instead. I don't really see much of a difference. Alchenar posted:The triangle of Infantry, Cavalry, and Archers works better when Infantry and Archers aren't the same unit and Cavalry actually has some worth. Yes, what Alchenar said. The differences between units and how they interact, how there's no clear line infantry > everything else superiority and how the AI isn't completely drop dead stupid means I have a reason to do more than use a line. Getting fancy in Empire meant using a smaller line offset to the main one to flank. Getting fancy in Shogun 2 has more options, and I love options. I don't remember a single enjoyable battle from my 22~ish hour Empire domination campaign. Most of the ones that were shaping up to be good were ruined by AI stupidity. I can remember a few situations but nothing that lead to a 'holy poo poo that was an awesome battle'. Looking back now I kept playing because I was attached to the campaign itself and enjoyed seeing Sweden grow in power over time. I've already had a couple of really enjoyable fights in Shogun. I missed enjoying the battle game rather than tolerating/hating it. I remember Napoleon being a lot better to play than Empire, but I am burnt out on gunpowder and wanted to whack things with swords and get yelled at for shameful displays.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:18
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It isn't the tactics fault the AI and game engine were prototype pieces of poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:34
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Not hating on the tactics, hating on the game for its lack of viable/interesting tactics. Almost as bad as how I used to play Rome Total Realism, pick a Hellenic faction, tie them up with phalanxes while light javelin infantry ran around to the back and unloaded into them. It was very efficient for cost compared to heavy cav. Edit: That and heavy cav could utterly annihilate a unit in a second with a rear charge, but sometimes charges failed to have any impact and they'd get slaughtered.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:08
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SeanBeansShako posted:It isn't the tactics fault the AI and game engine were prototype pieces of poo poo. You are not playing the tactics though, you are playing the game. With non-existent AI and a prototype game engine, any relation that Empire had with anything remotely tactical to the time period is pure coincidence. Shogun gives meaningful tactical choices and creates an engaging battle element. It's by far the superior game. It's unsurprising that people feel the tactics in Shogun are deeper then in Empire, because they are. This is a different statement to saying Japanese tactics are superior to Age of Sail tactics or anything outside of the two game environments.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:09
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Alright still, yeah it might be lacking but it is bad enough it can't be modded to at least not be poo poo so quit bringing it up  .
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Mar 11, 2013 04:16
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SeanBeansShako posted:Alright still, yeah it might be lacking but it is bad enough it can't be modded to at least not be poo poo so quit bringing it up Relax, it's not a personal attack. I don't think that stating "I like [newest game] for the battles compared to [last game played], It's really nice having [new feature]." is all that controversial in a megathread, especially given that the [latest game] just got a gold release and a whole lot of new people are playing it and this is the place to talk about it. Especially when the older game had large highly visible flaws, which naturally invites comparison. There is no need to get defensive when the statements are generally positive about the series. (Do we want the games to be getting worse so that our personal favourites always stay the best in the series?)
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Mar 11, 2013 04:48
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Yeah, I got a bit too angry at video games really. I personally like both Empire and Napoleon because it is something new and different with interesting scales and gameplay. Just pisses me off all that promise was squandered.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:59
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What Empire made me wish for was a game set in the centuries just before it. Like, imagine a 1400-1699 campaign where you go from late Medieval to Renaissance pike-and-shotte to early musket infantry.
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Mar 11, 2013 05:18
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Grand Prize Winner posted:What Empire made me wish for was a game set in the centuries just before it. Like, imagine a 1400-1699 campaign where you go from late Medieval to Renaissance pike-and-shotte to early musket infantry. I think they called that game Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai. 
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Mar 11, 2013 05:24
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Wait, just how bad was the Empire AI? Because I still see rebels charging their general right into my Yari Ashigaru ranks in Hard difficulty.  Also, Gaben won today: I ended up buying Fall of the Samurai with all the DLC, shameful display. 
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Mar 11, 2013 05:56
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Azran posted:Wait, just how bad was the Empire AI? Because I still see rebels charging their general right into my Yari Ashigaru ranks in Hard difficulty. Regularly sends its cavalry including its general into the waiting arms of your line infantry, deploys its cannons directly behind hills and forests it can't shoot through (it only checks for target range, not clear line of sight), has a tendency to reorganise its line by swapping units on the extreme flanks with one another, while under cannon fire, sometimes while under musket fire. Marches line infantry straight up to cannons with canister shot and stands around trying to shoot it out. It's dumb as dog poo poo. Strategic AI isn't anything to write home about either. Lots of questionable war declarations, trade offers that make no sense, squandering smaller armies away when they could combine them to get a half-decent shot at winning an autoresolve battle, attacking low value and exposed provinces. Edit: so many empty building slots where they could've built an economy building. Also, Prussia & Austria had 60% Protestant churches when I rolled over them. That's economic suicide. I haven't played Napoleon in about two years so I can't remember if it's actually better, but nostalgia tells me that it was. Playing Empire against a real player would probably be fun and salvage a lot of the game. SeanBeansShako posted:Yeah, I got a bit too angry at video games really. I personally like both Empire and Napoleon because it is something new and different with interesting scales and gameplay. That's about how I feel about it except instead of being pissed off I'm like, welp, hope they remake it one day and do it justice. They owe it to the time period considering how badly they hosed it up. Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 06:28
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Cool just beat the italian part of the campaign, last time I was playing Piedmont/Sardinia thought it was a good idea to declare war on me while I was marching on Venice and having an issue. Said gently caress that, took all their poo poo even when they were my protectorate and let the money roll in. hosed Venice, hosed the pope, hosed the austrians. hi5 thanks for the advice.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:26
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Napoleon is considerably better than Empire on the Strategic and Tactical level, and for what it's worth I enjoy playing it. The thing is if you play a battle in Shogun 2 and then go and play a battle in Napoleon, it really shows up the lack of tactical diversity in the latter: you batter the enemy with artillery and then make sure your line faces off against theirs and everything should go your way. The really crucial thing about Shogun is that ranged attacks are supplementary arm, not a primary one. Archers will rip apart enemy units if given the chance, but can't stand 1v1 against an infantry charge. The game forces you to balance the arms of your army and that in itself lends towards a more tactically nuanced game. Rome has a slightly different problem in that each faction tends towards a limited unit selection (Rome can quite happily spam legionary stacks all day long and not care about archers or cavalry) but each faction only has access to a certain army 'style', ensuring that the player will meet a diverse range of opponents over the course of a campaign.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:38
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Kaal posted:If you're having to wait fifteen minutes while units hammer it out, then you need to skirmish and flank more effectively. Could be a siege battle or similar where that's actively not a possibility. Also bloody-mindedness. Vanilla morale goes for 3(Peasants) to 11(Elites). Third Age is 11('militia') to 20+. not counting those units with Lock Morale(Which are also elite in any case). On top of this, AI units get 2-4 extra morale when trained as a bonus. This is disregarding +morale from your General's command score and his traits. So yes, it can take that long. Since it's unknown how much morale damage things do and it seems unmodifiable in any case...
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Mar 11, 2013 12:35
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Sometimes Shogun 2 freezes or crashes to desktop randomly - what could it be? I can run it at max settings without any hiccups. Windows 7, by the way. When it freezes, I can't even minimize it.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:27
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I inadvertently now have a PC that can play the new Shogun games. Which one of Shogun 2 or Fall of the Samurai should I get, is either of them quantifiably better or is it more a case of whether you prefer longbows or 19th century guns?
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Mar 11, 2013 15:45
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They're both great but Fall of the Samurai is better if you're already familiar with Shogun 2, I think.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:50
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