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Toolband
May 28, 2003

Year of the Tiger....probably not but hey we started 2-0

Thanks, it's just odd that it happened this year and nothing has changed the past 2. I'm guessing it was computed generated audit.

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AffableCharlie
Aug 30, 2007
Laughable Charlie?
I started trading in 2012 with ~$25k of seed money. As of December 31st 2012, I was up to ~$30k; but as of today, I am down to ~$20k (all from market movements, not withdrawals/deposits). Do I still have to pay income tax on the ~$5k I made in 2012, even though I subsequently lost that and more?

spf3million
Sep 27, 2007

hit 'em with the rhythm

Meta Ridley posted:

Tax Question. Technically applies to 2014 returns but laws would be the same then too.

Anyway I am on a business trip for 2 months right now. Most of the expenses were charged to a corporate card but a few are being charged to my personal card (to get expensed/re-imbursed). $47/day on food and the $1700 car rental bill will both be direct deposited into my personal checking.

How would income tax work on those? Will all that count as income tax and be taxed at my tax bracket? Cuz if so that is pretty hosed and I will end up having to pay like 25% fed income taxes on the car rental and any food I buy.

I am hoping it will not count as my 'income' since these are expenses incurred as result of business trip. If I have to pay $400 out of pocket for taxes on the car rental I probably would have reconsidered this trip
My reimbursed expenses don't show up on my W-2. They are listed as a separate line on my pay stub and are not included in the taxable income.

urnisme
Dec 24, 2011

Meta Ridley posted:

Tax Question. Technically applies to 2014 returns but laws would be the same then too.

Anyway I am on a business trip for 2 months right now. Most of the expenses were charged to a corporate card but a few are being charged to my personal card (to get expensed/re-imbursed). $47/day on food and the $1700 car rental bill will both be direct deposited into my personal checking.

How would income tax work on those? Will all that count as income tax and be taxed at my tax bracket? Cuz if so that is pretty hosed and I will end up having to pay like 25% fed income taxes on the car rental and any food I buy.

I am hoping it will not count as my 'income' since these are expenses incurred as result of business trip. If I have to pay $400 out of pocket for taxes on the car rental I probably would have reconsidered this trip

Reimbursments from your employer for employee expenses are not included in income. See http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc514.html

urnisme
Dec 24, 2011

SilkyP posted:

Alright so with my W-2 form only, its looking like I would be getting about 700 hundred back. With the 1099 only I owe about a grand. So if that's the case should I only be paying about 300 dollars when I file? Somehow filing them together will cost 1400 dollars. I'm so confused :/ Does this mean I will pay the 1400 and then get back 700 from the return?

No. You cannot calculate each form individually and then put the results together. You add up all your income from all sources, then subtract your deductions and exemptions, calculate the taxes owed, and compare your taxes owed to the amounts that were withheld already on your W2. When you calculate an "amount owed" at the end of your return, that should already account for the amounts you've paid in.

If you are using software to calculate your taxes owed on each of those forms individually, it is probably subtracting your standard deduction and personal exemption each time. This would make it give you a lower tax liability than you should have because you only get to subtract your deductions and exemptions once, not twice. It's also possible that putting both forms together bumps you into a higher tax bracket than either of them would put you in individually. Your software may also be giving you the Earned Income Credit when you do your forms individually, but when you put all the income together you may be over income to take the credit.

tl;dr - do your taxes with all the income together, don't expect it to match with calculating each form individually.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

AffableCharlie posted:

I started trading in 2012 with ~$25k of seed money. As of December 31st 2012, I was up to ~$30k; but as of today, I am down to ~$20k (all from market movements, not withdrawals/deposits). Do I still have to pay income tax on the ~$5k I made in 2012, even though I subsequently lost that and more?

No as you didn't realize those capital gains by cashing out of the positions.

scribe jones
Sep 17, 2008

One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

AffableCharlie posted:

I started trading in 2012 with ~$25k of seed money. As of December 31st 2012, I was up to ~$30k; but as of today, I am down to ~$20k (all from market movements, not withdrawals/deposits). Do I still have to pay income tax on the ~$5k I made in 2012, even though I subsequently lost that and more?

Were you trading, or just watching the value of your portfolio go up and down? If the former, you'll need to prepare a listing (if your broker doesn't) of each stock sale, with cost basis and sales price info, and calculate gain/loss for each transaction. Also look up something called "wash sale rules" as they can cause some losses to be disallowed.

Titan Coeus
Jul 30, 2007

check out my horn
Question regarding which state to pay income tax to. I worked over the summer in Connecticut as an intern and gave them my apartment address. They sent me paychecks to that address and CT taxes were taken out. However, that was only for the summer, and I am a full time resident in New York. Filling out my taxes in Turbo Tax, it looks like I owe a lot of money to NY from that internship.

Does NY or CT get my taxes? Did I make a mistake giving my internship company my temporary address? I read the OP and wasn't totally sure how the "What states do I need to file in?" section applied to me.

Admiral101
Feb 20, 2006
RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Titan Coeus posted:

Question regarding which state to pay income tax to. I worked over the summer in Connecticut as an intern and gave them my apartment address. They sent me paychecks to that address and CT taxes were taken out. However, that was only for the summer, and I am a full time resident in New York. Filling out my taxes in Turbo Tax, it looks like I owe a lot of money to NY from that internship.

Does NY or CT get my taxes? Did I make a mistake giving my internship company my temporary address? I read the OP and wasn't totally sure how the "What states do I need to file in?" section applied to me.

NY and CT do not have any kind of tax reciprocity agreement. What this means is that you will be filing in CT as a nonresident (And paying CT income tax). You will also have to report the same income in NY (as a resident). While you are paying tax on the same income for two different states, you should be able to claim the tax paid to CT as a credit on your NY tax return.

Titan Coeus
Jul 30, 2007

check out my horn

Admiral101 posted:

NY and CT do not have any kind of tax reciprocity agreement. What this means is that you will be filing in CT as a nonresident (And paying CT income tax). You will also have to report the same income in NY (as a resident). While you are paying tax on the same income for two different states, you should be able to claim the tax paid to CT as a credit on your NY tax return.

This makes sense, thanks a ton.

AffableCharlie
Aug 30, 2007
Laughable Charlie?

scribe jones posted:

Were you trading, or just watching the value of your portfolio go up and down? If the former, you'll need to prepare a listing (if your broker doesn't) of each stock sale, with cost basis and sales price info, and calculate gain/loss for each transaction. Also look up something called "wash sale rules" as they can cause some losses to be disallowed.

Thanks - I was trading (frequently opening & closing positions), so the gains/losses were realized. I have the information I need from my broker, but what I'm not sure about is if I can take my 2013 losses against my 2012 gains, or if I have to pay taxes on my 2012 gains even though I have recently lost them.

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

AffableCharlie posted:

I have to pay taxes on my 2012 gains even though I have recently lost them.

2012 is done. You still have lots of time in 2013, so the IRS won't care what has happened (for the most part) in 2013.

If you're day trading, the mark-to-market election is due 4/15 for the upcoming year if you're interested.

Side note: I have never, ever, seen one of my clients make a good living day trading. Or even a living. Or anything other than lose their rear end.

Bears In Mind
Sep 22, 2012
Hello all. I've got a frustrating situation here. I got permission from my sister to claim my nephew, who I helped support and have helped support for the past few years. When I went to e-file, I was told someone had already claimed him. My first suspect is the child's father, who does not have custody and has been largely absent for years and divorced from my sister for at least ten. He was not given permission, and in the last few years has actually given the child's information to various girlfriends so they could claim him, which is another possible explanation here.

Bottom line is that my sister gave me sole permission to claim my nephew, and I have her word and school records showing I am a legal emergency contact and the fact that we shared an address for much of the year to back it up. The father didn't see the child for more than a few weeks last year, and does not contribute any income. As long as I paper file and can show my sister's permission and our common residence, do I have to fear not receiving a refund?

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Related to the capital gains/losses question, if I want to deduct net capital losses against my regular income will I be able to also take the standard deduction, or will I need to itemize? From researching it I think I would be able to use the standard deduction, but I couldn't find an IRS publication that said for sure one way or the other.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Bears In Mind posted:

Hello all. I've got a frustrating situation here. I got permission from my sister to claim my nephew, who I helped support and have helped support for the past few years. When I went to e-file, I was told someone had already claimed him. My first suspect is the child's father, who does not have custody and has been largely absent for years and divorced from my sister for at least ten. He was not given permission, and in the last few years has actually given the child's information to various girlfriends so they could claim him, which is another possible explanation here.

Bottom line is that my sister gave me sole permission to claim my nephew, and I have her word and school records showing I am a legal emergency contact and the fact that we shared an address for much of the year to back it up. The father didn't see the child for more than a few weeks last year, and does not contribute any income. As long as I paper file and can show my sister's permission and our common residence, do I have to fear not receiving a refund?

This happens a lot, so there are established procedures for getting the EIC and the child tax credit/additional child tax credit applied to the right taxpayer. It's just gonna take forever and be a pain in the neck. So I'd expect to see the refund later this year, definitely not within the 6-8 weeks that paper filing gets you. Still worth it to pursue, though.

Bears In Mind
Sep 22, 2012

sullat posted:

This happens a lot, so there are established procedures for getting the EIC and the child tax credit/additional child tax credit applied to the right taxpayer. It's just gonna take forever and be a pain in the neck. So I'd expect to see the refund later this year, definitely not within the 6-8 weeks that paper filing gets you. Still worth it to pursue, though.

Thanks! I'm kind of paranoid that I'll never get it even though I have evidence, so this gives me some peace of mind. I'm calling my tax place to double check I've sent everything, as they seemed a little less than helpful when I was paper filing.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

Shear Modulus posted:

Related to the capital gains/losses question, if I want to deduct net capital losses against my regular income will I be able to also take the standard deduction, or will I need to itemize? From researching it I think I would be able to use the standard deduction, but I couldn't find an IRS publication that said for sure one way or the other.

Yes, you can take up to $3,000 in net capital losses as an 'income' line item against regular income every year, carrying forward the balance indefinitely and still claim the standard deduction - there is no itemization required to claim the $3,000 net capital loss.

urnisme
Dec 24, 2011
Heads up to anyone using Intuit products to file Minnesota taxes - don't: http://www.revenue.state.mn.us/individuals/individ_income/Pages/Online_Filing_Software.aspx

Intuit products include TurboTax, Lacerte, Intuit online, and ProSeries.

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

urnisme posted:

Heads up to anyone using Intuit products to file Minnesota taxes - don't: http://www.revenue.state.mn.us/individuals/individ_income/Pages/Online_Filing_Software.aspx

Intuit products include TurboTax, Lacerte, Intuit online, and ProSeries.

I use Lacerte, and it wouldn't surprise me. The last few years it's been a mess.

nmx
May 16, 2004

Here's a stupid question that has been nagging at me. How do I know whether a traditional or Roth 401(k) (or IRA) is a better bet for me? All the advice seems to boil down to "what do you expect your tax rate to be when you retire?" This makes sense, but how the heck am I supposed to know that?

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

nmx posted:

Here's a stupid question that has been nagging at me. How do I know whether a traditional or Roth 401(k) (or IRA) is a better bet for me? All the advice seems to boil down to "what do you expect your tax rate to be when you retire?" This makes sense, but how the heck am I supposed to know that?

Part of it might be "what is your tax rate now." If you're in the 15% tax bracket now, why would you defer out from that and be taxed at a higher rate down the road? That would lean towards Roth.

I do see a ton of my clients that have nothing but deferred retirement accounts lose 1/3 to taxes with they withdraw and it drives them crazy (OR has 9% tax as well).

You might consider blending the two and do half roth and half regular.

Eggplant Wizard
Jul 8, 2005


i loev catte
I'm having trouble figuring out if I need to do anything about Federal tuition & fees deductions or the lifetime learning credit.

My income is as follows apart from the stuff below: $31454.64 in W-2, $60.18 in a 1099-int, $242.54 in a 1099-div, and $1927.95 in self employment income, for a total gross income of $33685.31 before the below.

  • received $1000 in fellowship, not for any services or to pay for any expenses, which came on a 1099-Misc. This is totally unrelated to the other two bits.
  • received $9849.50 in tuition remission, which is listed in box 5 "scholarships or grants" of a 1098-T ...
  • ... which was applied to a total tuition billed amount of $11,191.
  • I'm a doctoral student. I am teaching for the institution, and partial tuition remission is part of my deal as an employee. I am not anyone's dependent and I am filing singly.

On the W-2: For my state taxable income, the tuition remission amount is added to my income. For my federal taxable income, it is not included.

So I've spent $1341.50 on tuition & fees, and also received $1000 in non-tuition-intended fellowship.

Actual questions
1. Are the fellowship & the TR even kind of related for tax purposes?
2. Would it be more beneficial for me to take the Lifetime Learning credit (if I'm eligible) or to deduct the tuition I paid directly? I think I can't do both.

Thanks :saddowns:

dsh
Aug 2, 2003
So having finally graduated and being gainfully employed, I did my taxes for the first time, and got a pretty huge refund thanks to the American Opportunity Tax Credit. Would I be entitled to a refund by claiming this credit for my prior 3 years of education?

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

dsh posted:

So having finally graduated and being gainfully employed, I did my taxes for the first time, and got a pretty huge refund thanks to the American Opportunity Tax Credit. Would I be entitled to a refund by claiming this credit for my prior 3 years of education?

Were you claimed as a dependent on someone else's filing for tax purposes for those other years?

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Eggplant Wizard posted:

2. Would it be more beneficial for me to take the Lifetime Learning credit (if I'm eligible) or to deduct the tuition I paid directly? I think I can't do both.

Thanks :saddowns:

I guess it would depend on whether your tax rate is above or below 20%. Some states allow you to double-dip on the LLC and tuition & fees deduction (Oregon, at least), but the federales don't.

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

This year I decided I should minimize my refund, so I filled out the withholding calculator like a good taxpayer last March, and it told me to deduct an extra chunk of money each paycheck.

Did my taxes today, and realize the withholding calculator doesn't ask about carryover capitol losses, of which I have quite a bit from when the market was terrible a few years ago. My refund ended up being about a grand, which is worse than before I messed with things. I know some people like a refund, but I'd rather just have the money as I earn it, thanks.

So... watch out for that.

dsh
Aug 2, 2003

sheri posted:

Were you claimed as a dependent on someone else's filing for tax purposes for those other years?

No I wasn't my mom was sick and my dad was taking care of her during those years.

Gnumonic
Dec 11, 2005

Maybe you thought I was the Packard Goose?
How do I prove to the IRS that they've made a mistake?

To make a long story short, they want me to file a return for 2011, which I cannot do because I made no taxable income (was a college student) during that time. They say I should have received a 1099 from my bank (the company I supposedly received taxable income from), but my bank says they never issued nor needed to issue me a 1099 for that year (they're pretty sure that the money the income the IRS thinks I made was actually income earned by one of my relatives with a very similar name to me who does work at that bank). I've called the IRS half a dozen times and they maintain that I need to file a tax return and representatives keep sidestepping my request for them to double check that the SSN on the 1099 they have is actually mine. Do I need an accountant? Lawyer?

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

Gnumonic posted:

How do I prove to the IRS that they've made a mistake?

To make a long story short, they want me to file a return for 2011, which I cannot do because I made no taxable income (was a college student) during that time. They say I should have received a 1099 from my bank (the company I supposedly received taxable income from), but my bank says they never issued nor needed to issue me a 1099 for that year (they're pretty sure that the money the income the IRS thinks I made was actually income earned by one of my relatives with a very similar name to me who does work at that bank). I've called the IRS half a dozen times and they maintain that I need to file a tax return and representatives keep sidestepping my request for them to double check that the SSN on the 1099 they have is actually mine. Do I need an accountant? Lawyer?

Call and ask for a wage and income transcript. This lists all of the tax forms they've gotten under your SSN and will list the bank and associated account number.

Then get a signed letter from the bank stating that you never had an account there, or something showing whatever interest income you did earn in 2011.

I'd also suggest you get a free credit check online (ftc.gov?) and make sure your credit is fine.

manwithoutskin
Mar 24, 2006
can you see the line where the water ends
For those of you who have filed taxes on your own and have lived in multiple states, was it easy enough?

I lived and worked in TX for 9 months, and lived in CT, working in MA for the other 3. I'm assuming I'll need to file non-resident in MA, and the state tax for CT.

Eggplant Wizard
Jul 8, 2005


i loev catte

sullat posted:

I guess it would depend on whether your tax rate is above or below 20%. Some states allow you to double-dip on the LLC and tuition & fees deduction (Oregon, at least), but the federales don't.

I am paying about 13% I think.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Eggplant Wizard posted:

I am paying about 13% I think.

Sorry, I meant your marginal tax rate. If you're in the 10% or 15% bracket, take the Lifetime Learning Credit and if you're in the 25% bracket, take the tuition and fees deduction.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

My wife and I are married filing jointly. I have one job and make 75% of our income. My wife is an artist. In 2012 she had three part-time jobs totaling around 25 or 30 hours a week. Additionally, she runs her art practice as a small business (a sole proprietorship). We have reported her business income and losses on our taxes for two years (2010 and 2011) on Schedule C. For 2012 I was assuming I'd still do that. I've used Turbotax Home & Business to do our taxes for all three relevant years.

Here's the problem. My wife's business/art practice has made a loss for all three years. This is all small potatoes:
pre:
year	gross income	deductible expenses	profit (loss)
2010	834		5148			(4314)
2011	2280		5297			(3017)
2012	1462		5942			(4480)
I don't think it matters, but in case it does; in all three of these years, her income from her regular jobs far exceeded her losses to the business.

I'm reading IRS Publication 535 (2012) and the section "How much can I deduct" is worrying me. "When can I deduct an Expense" says

quote:

Presumption of profit. An activity is presumed carried on for profit if it produced a profit in at least 3 of the last 5 tax years, including the current year. ... If your business or investment activity passes this 3- (or 2-) years-of-profit test, the IRS will presume it is carried on for profit. This means the limits discussed here will not apply. You can take all your business deductions from the activity, even for the years that you have a loss. You can rely on this presumption unless the IRS later shows it to be invalid.

Plainly, right now looking back, there isn't 3 years of profit in the first 5 years, and there won't be for at least the next two years as well.

The next section in this publication describes how to use Form 5213 to extend the due date by two years past the due date of the return for the last year of the period. I think what this is for, is if (say) you had in the past three years, two years of loss and one of profit; you could extend the due date by two years, because if you make a profit in the next two years, then looking back at that point you'll have had 3 years of profit over a five-year period and be a-OK.

If that's the case, then we're hosed, right?

Anyway, the next section of the pamphelet, Limit on Deductions, discusses how to prioritize your deductible expenses and that you're limited to only those which offset your gross income, e.g., I think it means you cannot go on to deduct the rest of the losses from your personal income.

So, here are my actual questions:

1. Is my wife officially now a not for profit business, even though her intention is to make a profit in her art practice?
2. Regardless of the answer for 1, can we still use the Business section in Turbotax (that is, Schedule C) to figure her business' income and expenses?
3. If she isn't considered by the IRS as a for-profit business for 2012, what if she makes a profit in 2013? Could we then go back to being a business in 2013, or do they still look back five years? If not, what stops someone from just terminating one business and starting up a substantially identical business to get around that?
4. How do I make Turbotax look back more than one year? It seems like it only bothers to look at 2011 when I fill out all my 2012 stuff (I'm using the online tool). I can't find anywhere where it even recognizes this limitation discussed in 535.
5. Suppose I want to show a profit, just for the purposes of keeping the business alive in the eyes of the taxman. For example, suppose I think she'll make a profit for the next two years, and I want to be able to deduct a loss made in 2016 or 2017 (which would be allowed if she had a loss from 2010 and 2011, but then a profit from 2012, 2013, and 2014); could we just choose not to claim various business expenses? For example, could we just choose to eat the cost of her business-related travel, reducing expenses, to get to a net profit? I'm not proposing to lie on our taxes, mind you; I'm only asking if we can voluntarily not claim certain expenses, for the purpose of keeping the business afloat (in the eyes of the IRS).

Obviously I'd love to be able to reduce our income by the $4480 loss. I think that lowers the amount of money to which our top marginal rate is applied by that amount. It's not tons of money but it's a few hundred bucks. But I don't want to gently caress up our taxes and I don't especially want to get audited (although we have good records and can document every single business expense and sale if necessary).

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 13, 2013

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen
To piggyback on the Form 1099 question, I did some work at a summer internship in 2012 in which I was hired as an independent contractor. Payments to me were made via personal check and given directly to me, nothing withheld. I should be receiving a 1099 from the company detailing all of that, right? I haven't gotten one, and while I sent an email off to my boss/the CEO (it was a 5-man shop) asking about it, it's been a couple days and I haven't gotten a response at all. What should I do if I just don't get anything at all? Nag him until he either says "Yes, you'll be getting a 1099 soon" or "No, we're cheating the IRS and just never reported that you worked here"?

Admiral101
Feb 20, 2006
RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Leperflesh posted:

My wife and I are married filing jointly. I have one job and make 75% of our income. My wife is an artist. In 2012 she had three part-time jobs totaling around 25 or 30 hours a week. Additionally, she runs her art practice as a small business (a sole proprietorship). We have reported her business income and losses on our taxes for two years (2010 and 2011) on Schedule C. For 2012 I was assuming I'd still do that. I've used Turbotax Home & Business to do our taxes for all three relevant years.

Here's the problem. My wife's business/art practice has made a loss for all three years. This is all small potatoes:
pre:
year	gross income	deductible expenses	profit (loss)
2010	834		5148			(4314)
2011	2280		5297			(3017)
2012	1462		5942			(4480)
I don't think it matters, but in case it does; in all three of these years, her income from her regular jobs far exceeded her losses to the business.

I'm reading IRS Publication 535 (2012) and the section "How much can I deduct" is worrying me. "When can I deduct an Expense" says


Plainly, right now looking back, there isn't 3 years of profit in the first 5 years, and there won't be for at least the next two years as well.

The next section in this publication describes how to use Form 5213 to extend the due date by two years past the due date of the return for the last year of the period. I think what this is for, is if (say) you had in the past three years, two years of loss and one of profit; you could extend the due date by two years, because if you make a profit in the next two years, then looking back at that point you'll have had 3 years of profit over a five-year period and be a-OK.

If that's the case, then we're hosed, right?

Anyway, the next section of the pamphelet, Limit on Deductions, discusses how to prioritize your deductible expenses and that you're limited to only those which offset your gross income, e.g., I think it means you cannot go on to deduct the rest of the losses from your personal income.

So, here are my actual questions:

1. Is my wife officially now a not for profit business, even though her intention is to make a profit in her art practice?
2. Regardless of the answer for 1, can we still use the Business section in Turbotax (that is, Schedule C) to figure her business' income and expenses?
3. If she isn't considered by the IRS as a for-profit business for 2012, what if she makes a profit in 2013? Could we then go back to being a business in 2013, or do they still look back five years? If not, what stops someone from just terminating one business and starting up a substantially identical business to get around that?
4. How do I make Turbotax look back more than one year? It seems like it only bothers to look at 2011 when I fill out all my 2012 stuff (I'm using the online tool). I can't find anywhere where it even recognizes this limitation discussed in 535.
5. Suppose I want to show a profit, just for the purposes of keeping the business alive in the eyes of the taxman. For example, suppose I think she'll make a profit for the next two years, and I want to be able to deduct a loss made in 2016 or 2017 (which would be allowed if she had a loss from 2010 and 2011, but then a profit from 2012, 2013, and 2014); could we just choose not to claim various business expenses? For example, could we just choose to eat the cost of her business-related travel, reducing expenses, to get to a net profit? I'm not proposing to lie on our taxes, mind you; I'm only asking if we can voluntarily not claim certain expenses, for the purpose of keeping the business afloat (in the eyes of the IRS).

Obviously I'd love to be able to reduce our income by the $4480 loss. I think that lowers the amount of money to which our top marginal rate is applied by that amount. It's not tons of money but it's a few hundred bucks. But I don't want to gently caress up our taxes and I don't especially want to get audited (although we have good records and can document every single business expense and sale if necessary).

Not having a profit for 3 out of the 5 past tax years doesn't automatically make your business losses nondeductible.

What you're fighting here are the hobby-loss rules. And an art business is going to be the type of business where the IRS will question whether it's an actual for-profit business.

Assuming it is in fact a 100% for profit business: you can take the loss for 2012, but you will have to be able to prove that your wife's art business is for-profit if the return is ever examined. You should consider:

quote:

The following factors, although not all inclusive, may help you to determine whether your activity is an activity engaged in for profit or a hobby:

Does the time and effort put into the activity indicate an intention to make a profit?
Do you depend on income from the activity?
If there are losses, are they due to circumstances beyond your control or did they occur in the start-up phase of the business?
Have you changed methods of operation to improve profitability?
Do you have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business?
Have you made a profit in similar activities in the past?
Does the activity make a profit in some years?
Do you expect to make a profit in the future from the appreciation of assets used in the activity?

Admiral101
Feb 20, 2006
RMU: Where using the internet is like living in 1995.

Relambrien posted:

To piggyback on the Form 1099 question, I did some work at a summer internship in 2012 in which I was hired as an independent contractor. Payments to me were made via personal check and given directly to me, nothing withheld. I should be receiving a 1099 from the company detailing all of that, right? I haven't gotten one, and while I sent an email off to my boss/the CEO (it was a 5-man shop) asking about it, it's been a couple days and I haven't gotten a response at all. What should I do if I just don't get anything at all? Nag him until he either says "Yes, you'll be getting a 1099 soon" or "No, we're cheating the IRS and just never reported that you worked here"?

You don't have to wait on the 1099 in order to file. Whatever is reported on the 1099 should equal the cash payments made to you over the year. He's not "cheating the IRS" by not filing your 1099 on time - at least not in a way that will benefit him.

Outer Science
Dec 21, 2008

Daisangen

Admiral101 posted:

You don't have to wait on the 1099 in order to file. Whatever is reported on the 1099 should equal the cash payments made to you over the year. He's not "cheating the IRS" by not filing your 1099 on time - at least not in a way that will benefit him.

Alright, that's a relief. I was worried because the tax preparer I talked to said she needed the 1099 specifically. Thanks.

AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007

Admiral101 posted:

Not having a profit for 3 out of the 5 past tax years doesn't automatically make your business losses nondeductible.

What you're fighting here are the hobby-loss rules. And an art business is going to be the type of business where the IRS will question whether it's an actual for-profit business.

Assuming it is in fact a 100% for profit business: you can take the loss for 2012, but you will have to be able to prove that your wife's art business is for-profit if the return is ever examined. You should consider:

You are also running a huge audit risk with this business. Assuming it's legitimate, by all means take the expenses. But you need to make sure your accounting is tight and well-documented and for pete's sake DO NOT be depositing business income into a co-mingled personal account. The IRS really hates that.

If (when) you get audited, the IRS will examine all of your bank accounts (personal and business) and tie out the deposits in all accounts to what you listed on your tax return. If you sold a personal car, took a loan, got a refund by mail for a product and deposited it, etc. the IRS will assume this is business income unless you can prove otherwise.

Also make sure your documentation for any auto deductions (miles) is well documented and organized.

Edit: The IRS also has around four pages or so of "standard" audit questions, such as:
Do you ever barter? (Note: the IRS hates bartering, you're supposed to pick up the income and associated expense on your returns for this.)

Do you ever take cash? If so, what do you do with it? (Never, ever say "just keep it." Make sure some cash gets deposited through the year if you do take cash.)

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Admiral101 posted:

Not having a profit for 3 out of the 5 past tax years doesn't automatically make your business losses nondeductible.

What you're fighting here are the hobby-loss rules. And an art business is going to be the type of business where the IRS will question whether it's an actual for-profit business.

Assuming it is in fact a 100% for profit business: you can take the loss for 2012, but you will have to be able to prove that your wife's art business is for-profit if the return is ever examined. You should consider:

Yeah, I saw those questions. Our answers are mixed, unfortunately, and I don't know how to interpret that - it seems from the publication like this is some kind of fuzzy judgement call, and I'm surprised to find such a thing in the otherwise pretty carefully clearcut tax code.

Does the time and effort put into the activity indicate an intention to make a profit?
I don't know. She puts variable amounts of time into her art practice weekly. How much time and effort is sufficient to suggest an intention to make a profit?

Do you depend on income from the activity?
No. If her art practice ever makes enough profit, she'll surely quit one or more jobs to focus more on it, but we can't afford to have her just drop her regular employment and go full-time on the artwork. Fine art is a very risky business, and we have a mortgage to pay.

If there are losses, are they due to circumstances beyond your control or did they occur in the start-up phase of the business?
The "start-up" phase seems poorly defined. And I'm not sure what exactly qualifies as beyond her control? Right now she has unsold inventory. She's also working on a multi-year project that, upon completion, has the potential to put the business into profitability, if it sells. Easily half of 2012 expenses are towards this project. It's not finished yet, so it can't be sold yet. Is that a circumstance the IRS would consider to be within her control?

Have you changed methods of operation to improve profitability?
Recently my wife has started to focus more on work that is selling. Does that count?

Do you have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business?
Sure.


Have you made a profit in similar activities in the past?
Not on a year-over-year basis, although we weren't keeping track prior to her starting this business. But she's definitely sold artwork for more than it cost to make it on many occasions. I think she could document that if necessary.


Does the activity make a profit in some years?
Not yet.


Do you expect to make a profit in the future from the appreciation of assets used in the activity?
There are minimal assets. Her artwork could appreciate in value if she becomes more well-known by the art community, but it's not something we're expecting.


AbbiTheDog posted:

You are also running a huge audit risk with this business. Assuming it's legitimate, by all means take the expenses. But you need to make sure your accounting is tight and well-documented and for pete's sake DO NOT be depositing business income into a co-mingled personal account. The IRS really hates that.

My wife uses her personal checking. But she keeps all of her receipts, and has a spreadsheet documenting every receipt and what it was for. Likewise for all incomes. She collects California sales tax on her direct sales, and remits them to the state every July on schedule. She has records for that, too. She's also had work sold on her behalf (consignment sales) where the third party merchant collects the tax and then sends her a check, and she tracks that, too. But given the business is running at a loss, I guess if she had a separate account she'd have to regularly fund it from her personal accounts. Would that still be a good idea?

quote:

If (when) you get audited, the IRS will examine all of your bank accounts (personal and business) and tie out the deposits in all accounts to what you listed on your tax return. If you sold a personal car, took a loan, got a refund by mail for a product and deposited it, etc. the IRS will assume this is business income unless you can prove otherwise.

Also make sure your documentation for any auto deductions (miles) is well documented and organized.

I believe we can document every deposit related to business, and probably almost all the other deposits are paychecks from her employers. But they're going into the same account.

We're deliberately not taking any deductions for miles. It's too hard to separate car trips made for business and car trips made for non-business, since she drives into the city for both her regular jobs and to create work at her studio, often on the same day.

quote:

Edit: The IRS also has around four pages or so of "standard" audit questions, such as:
Do you ever barter? (Note: the IRS hates bartering, you're supposed to pick up the income and associated expense on your returns for this.)
[/quote]
Hmm. I'll have to ask her. I know she's occasionally traded small items with other artists - like, a mug, or a bowl. We're talking values of $30 or something. But I don't know if those are documented or not.

quote:

Do you ever take cash? If so, what do you do with it? (Never, ever say "just keep it." Make sure some cash gets deposited through the year if you do take cash.)

I'll have to ask.

Thanks both of you for your helpful responses. Unfortunately I'm not feeling any more reassured, but it's good stuff to discuss with the wife.

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AbbiTheDog
May 21, 2007
Based on your answers, I'd lean towards hobby at this point. But it's your taxes. If you try and write it off, I'd definitely keep a log of how many hours a week she is spending on her art. I'd also type up a business plan and budget for 2013, advertise (craigslist is great for this) and if she does gallery shows keep all of the paperwork/fliers for her opening.

At the end of the year, have her document what didn't work and what she's going to do differently in 2014. Have her do another budget. Have her try a different kind of artwork if she can.

Practical matter: Even if you get a "tax break," you're still out the cash. Example: You lose $5,000 (not even counting auto expenses). You deduct it on your taxes against 25% taxable income, saving you $1,250 in taxes. You're happy. But you're still out $3,750 in cold, hard cash after your tax refunds. If you're having trouble paying bills, maybe it's time to just stop.

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