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XboxPants posted:You're right. Thought it does happen - especially with very different platforms, like PC - it's not common. The point I was making, though, is that good games are coming to OUYA. [citation needed]
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Mar 10, 2013 08:59
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Very few people actually thought the OUYA was a scam - though, at the time, I thought that taking the money and running would be the better option. We did think it was completely impossible to get the device out the door - which it was, until they secured more funding, a scenario that didn't seem to be in the cards. Since we figured out they had extra funding, nobody has been predicting they wouldn't ship the initial round of consoles. I myself tepidly WONDERED if they would, but there have been almost no hard predictions since early December. So now, we're left with an awful product with a worthless marketplace that we have all but proven has no developer support. The Portal lead is making a game for it? Neat! Rayman: Legends was an exclusive title for the WiiU that got pushed back 7 months and un-exclusive'd because the WiiU didn't have enough units out. How many units did it have? Over 3 million. That was an announced exclusive for the second largest company in Japan (after Toyota). Julie is overselling to people, and pointing at the Kickstarter to do so. When the OUYA releases and nobody buys one, developers complain about how you can't make any money on it, and the store's users dwindle to a few thousand a month? The majority of OUYA titles by any real company will be cancelled. Furthermore, while not a BAD game, Quantum Conundrum clearly demonstrated that Swift stumbled on one really good idea, and then Valve capitalized on it. QC does not begin to bring a unique gameplay element like the Portal concept to the table. It's not really anything we haven't seen before, and I'd honestly struggle to be actually excited about anything from their studio. There isn't another Portal coming from those guys. The first time that many of us were wrong, our logic went like this: 1. They can't afford the consoles they promised using Kickstarter funds only 2. Therefore, they will not ship consoles The problem was that we missed that "only" wasn't necessarily a requirement. Here's the new proposition: 1. 68,000 users is nowhere near enough to make money for OUYA 2. You need games to increase install base 3. You need install base for developers to release games on your system Let me know if you see a faulty premise. We also have points of evidence that the games aren't going to be coming in droves: 1. The "games" list is basically nonsense, as the one everyone references includes my own fake game 2. There is a striking lack of developer activity to develop for this thing on any OUYA website (and there are like 6 boards, OUYAforum.com appears to be the only one with significant traffic) 3. Julie is a known exaggerator - Minecraft still not announced, and the promo video says "Minecraft will be on it" 4. They seem to have pinned their hopes and dreams on a Game Jam, which is sorta like expecting a supermodel to start dating you because you mailed them your scrotum 5. The one developer I know appears to not even be making a game at all 6. The one person I can find online talking about how he is developing a game all the time is developing a board game and also he dropped his OUYA out of a tree 7. The documentation of the store online is awful theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 09:01
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Red_Mage posted:[citation needed] And not one of those candy-rear end "oh our game we kickstarted that should be out this month but has been delayed will get an OUYA port" or "I am interested in making this game for the OUYA - One person of a multiperson team that made BIG GAME working at a different studio after not being brought back on to BIG GAME 2." An actual loving game, uploaded to that dumb submission psuedo store, that has been ported to the OUYA and looks & plays like a game made in the year of our lord two thousand and thirteen should.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:02
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theflyingorc posted:Furthermore, while not a BAD game, Quantum Conundrum clearly demonstrated that Swift stumbled on one really good idea, and then Valve capitalized on it. QC does not begin to bring a unique gameplay element like the Portal concept to the table. It's not really anything we haven't seen before, and I'd honestly struggle to be actually excited about anything from their studio. There isn't another Portal coming from those guys. Remember that Portal was basically valve unfucking Narbacular Drop, a game with an amazing gimmick that was obnoxious and unfun to play. Spit and Polish matters, and was easily one of the things Quantum Conundrum lacked. quote:The first time that many of us were wrong, our logic went like this: They 1. Haven't shipped the consoles they've promised to devs (they shipped a similar console with a far cheaper case and a poo poo controller). 2. Haven't shipped the kickstarter model they showed yet to their main backers. They are still loving around with the controller design. As far as I am concerned everyone who said "there is no way they can make the console they promised" has been completely vindicated by them cutting costs and corners and by virtue of that, not actually delivering the product they were selling.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:07
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Philip Rivers posted:Is nobody here rooting for this thing to succeed? Like not even in the least? Or is this thread just to mock XboxPants every time new information comes out about it? But if you bothered to read the thread you can see that there are no good indie games coming to it because people know it's garbage, And there is no "minimal hassle" when the hardware and software abomination hangs and freezes on basic android marketplace fare and the controller's touchpad doesn't even work properly. And the fact they keep talking redesigns scant months from launch and have had the most incompetent childlike management ever. Plus -everything- ever that happened to be a dumb dead in the water project has had it's hardcore defenders, from the Virtual boy to the N-gage. Some things you don't need to pull back that far to see that it's not going to end well. Economy Clown Car fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 09:07
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XboxPants posted:Imagine if they didn't release a Tegra 4 model next June, and a bigger company comes in and releases their own set-top console that does have a Tegra 4 and is running Hawken and poo poo. (there is a version of Hawken in development for Tegra 4) I'm not sure any other company would bother considering most of the people playing Hawken or whatever will be doing it on their PC or other consoles that have a lifespan longer than 12 months. Can you imagine the shitstorm if nintendo announced a WiiU replacement at this year's E3? This is what the MOOMAA people see as acceptable for some reason.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:13
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Economy Clown Car posted:Plus -everyone- ever has defended a dumb dead project or said "Give it a chance maaaan" from the Virtual boy to the N-gage. Some things you don't need to pull back that far to see that it's not going to end well.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:13
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theflyingorc posted:Very few people actually thought the OUYA was a scam - though, at the time, I thought that taking the money and running would be the better option. They actually did have the money beforehand. This wasn't a case of things changing, it was a case of people assuming things that they really didn't know. But I won't be too hard on you for this, because what you say next is pretty much right: theflyingorc posted:The first time that many of us were wrong, our logic went like this: We have no idea how many systems they've sold since they started selling them online. We also have no idea what games they may be waiting to announce. We do know there are launch games planned for the system, even if they're just ports of other mildly successful indie games. Given that, it's an extremely safe bet that OUYA is definitely going to make a "Launch Lineup" announcement... so if the OUYA launch games are already all known, why wait to announce them? They're seem to be holding back their launch announcement for some reason. Maybe it's just a timing thing. But maybe not.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:13
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theflyingorc posted:Y'know, the Virtual Boy was actually a dumber idea than the OUYA. If only the OUYA had the backing of a real company that didn't think 8.5 million was a lot of money (in business, it's not!), it too might sell very poorly and ultimately end up a forgotten footnote! Hey, the virtual boy at least had some cool exclusives. A Wario game and the definitive Mario Tennis (until the 3ds one).
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Mar 10, 2013 09:17
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I know for a fact that Ouya will have atleast 20 good games on it, for mine is coming with 20 games. Allthough will they remain to be good games after the honeymoon period is over, that remains to be seen.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:21
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XboxPants posted:We have no idea how many systems they've sold since they started selling them online. quote:Update: Uhrman meant to say the console had more than 63,000 Kickstarter backers, and more than 68,000 consoles on order including backers, a company spokesperson said. Uhrman said in the original interview that there were 68,000 Kickstarter backers. quote:We also have no idea what games they may be waiting to announce. We do know there are launch games planned for the system, even if they're just ports of other mildly successful indie games. quote:Given that, it's an extremely safe bet that OUYA is definitely going to make a "Launch Lineup" announcement... so if the OUYA launch games are already all known, why wait to announce them? They're seem to be holding back their launch announcement for some reason. Maybe it's just a timing thing. Nothing about game development works like you think it works.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:22
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I do acknowledge that a large, large amount of what made Portal great was the Valve spit & finish. Kim Swift just had a good core concept. And spit & finish is a pretty huge part of what makes a game enjoyable. Still, I thought QC was fun and had cool ideas. I don't think one flop is enough to say she's creatively bankrupt.Red_Mage posted:Hey, the virtual boy at least had some cool exclusives. A Wario game and the definitive Mario Tennis (until the 3ds one). You know, I played that Wario game at a Hollywood Video or something once, and it actually was pretty cool. I even liked the graphics. luncheon meat posted:I'm not sure any other company would bother considering most of the people playing Hawken or whatever will be doing it on their PC or other consoles that have a lifespan longer than 12 months. Well, there's two possibilities. There's the one you suggest, and it's a very possible one. In that possibility, then despite the Kickstarter success, there's no real market for a set-top console like this. In that case, like you say, no one else would bother making a competitor. However, if that's the case, then the market is so small that OUYA's doomed anyway. In that case, it doesn't really matter if they release an OUYA 2, it's not as if it was going to survive if they hadn't. The other possibility is then the one that I mentioned, where there is a market to be found for something like the OUYA. In that case, another company would be interested in coming in and gaining control of that market, and OUYA would have to stay modern to compete.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:23
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theflyingorc posted:Not a whole lot. You are definitely right. They sold a very small amount of them during that time period. And then they started selling them online at Amazon, Gamestop, Target, and Best Buy, with a big marketing push on both Amazon and Gamestop. Or, are you saying that it's a good rule of thumb to say that products sell at about the same rate when a company's web store is the only place to buy them, as they do when they're being promoted across giant web stores? edit: goddammit I double-posted AGAIN. that's like the third time in this thread. that, more than anything else, makes me feel like a bad poster. I'm gonna take a break for a while.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:27
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XboxPants posted:And then they started selling them online at Amazon, Gamestop, Target, and Best Buy, with a big marketing push on both Amazon and Gamestop. This is laughable. Amazon.com lists it only under their pre-order page. If you go to the video game section, there is no tab for the OUYA, same for Gamestop and Target. Bestbuy.com is the only one that has a dedicated OUYA tab in their video game drop down menu. That big marketing push was, what, a week long? It may or may not have generated sales. We have no real way to know, but to claim that their presence on those sites when for half of them you'd already have to know about the OUYA in the first place to find it is going to be significant is insane.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:42
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XboxPants posted:You are definitely right. They sold a very small amount of them during that time period. quote:Or, are you saying that it's a good rule of thumb to say that products sell at about the same rate when a company's web store is the only place to buy them, as they do when they're being promoted across giant web stores? How large was the marketing push? If they had prime Amazon real estate, they could have easily lost money on this.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:46
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Whoops, double post.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:46
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Over in the Awful Kickstarters thread, we figured out a long time ago that Kickstarter allows delusional weirdos and "idea guys" who know absolutely gently caress all about the industry they're trying to break into to sell their terrible ideas without actually risking anything up front. Sure, if you don't meet your funding goal, you don't get the money, but without the key barriers to entry of "having something substantial to show investors" and "actually knowing what the gently caress you are doing", any idiot can fling poo poo in all directions and hope it sticks to enough people who'll pay for the privilege. Don't get me wrong. Kickstarter is great. It's also an idiot enabler.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:47
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Haraksha posted:This is laughable. In XboxPants limited defense, I do remember amazon's front page having an OUYA advertisement for a few weeks. How effective that was, I don't know, but there was a stronger push than only on the pre-order page. Course, after that it is next to impossible to find OUYA if you're not searching for it.
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Mar 10, 2013 09:53
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I don't know how much it was pushed, but they do have a big feature page: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1001007241 Gamestop has one too: http://www.gamestop.com/collection/ouya I'm not sure how easy those pages are to stumble onto, so they may not get people interested in it in the first place. But if they do come looking, they'll find a lot to try to close the deal on them. Is it possible that the Amazon frontpage stuff was influenced by Amazon somehow being aware that you look at OUYA sites and/or this thread?
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Mar 10, 2013 10:03
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XboxPants posted:Is it possible that the Amazon frontpage stuff was influenced by Amazon somehow being aware that you look at OUYA sites and/or this thread? I don't think so, I have a Chrome plug-in that blocks companies from tracking me. I may be remembering wrong, though. I just remember seeing "OUYA" while searching for books recently, and front page was the only place it'd make sense. It was actually what prompted me to find this thread in the first place so who knows.
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Mar 10, 2013 10:08
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Forgive me for slightly agreeing with LEONBUDDpants, but Quantum Conundrum actually was a pretty good game (well, the PS3 version, I've heard absolutely dire things about the PC version). note: I got it free with PS+ so grain of salt and all that
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Mar 10, 2013 10:11
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What I really want to know is why xboxpants cares so much. I mean, $100 android console. Might be poo poo, might be cool, who knows? Why be so invested?
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Mar 10, 2013 10:22
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Mo Tzu posted:I don't think so, I have a Chrome plug-in that blocks companies from tracking me. I may be remembering wrong, though. I just remember seeing "OUYA" while searching for books recently, and front page was the only place it'd make sense. It was actually what prompted me to find this thread in the first place so who knows. Amazon's sales charts vary throughout the day. They can fluctuate pretty heavily in a period where no one or two things are really FLYING off the shelves. So like if a bunch of people were just waiting for the OUYA to go up there, and then bought it day 1, it'd see a huge surge up above something that'd been selling well for the past 6 months, because it is selling well right this second. precision posted:Forgive me for slightly agreeing with LEONBUDDpants, but Quantum Conundrum actually was a pretty good game (well, the PS3 version, I've heard absolutely dire things about the PC version). The PC version was literally unplayable on a machine that ran Alpha Protocol and Space Marine alright. I don't know what they did that cocked up UDK, but it is really loving bad. Also its GUI is some early 2000s poo poo.
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Mar 10, 2013 10:28
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cat doter posted:What I really want to know is why xboxpants cares so much. I mean, $100 android console. Might be poo poo, might be cool, who knows? Why be so invested? It's the pyschological phenomenon of justifying a purchase or decision to yourself. I don't know why you'd do it in front of an audience, but... it's the internet, I guess. Right now, for example, there's a shitstorm brewing over a board game Kickstarter that might mean nobody will see their $100 game because the kickstarting company is losing a legal battle against the game's inventor and is clearly in the wrong, and you still get people saying "if you can't afford to lose $100 maybe you shouldn't be on Kickstarter  "
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Mar 10, 2013 10:28
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Man, if not for XboxPants this thread would have less activity than the official developer forum. Keep fighting the good fight I guess, fella'. It does blow my mind somewhat to know there are people who invested, researched heavily and continue to believe this will end up as anything but an emulation and media machine like any other cheap-rear end Android STB/stick. (Note: That's not necessarily a bad thing). There's been a really positive reaction to the (possibly faked) OUYA XBMC demo in various places. If it turns out to be a genuinely good media centre device they'll sell a fair few to the folk who haven't quite seen the performance from their Raspberry Pi they were hoping for. Given the "game console" side of this thing will crash and burn it makes you wonder if they'd have had more long term success building an XBMC box to beat Pivos at their own game ... ... they wouldn't have generated a few million bucks selling hopes, dreams and fairy dust that way, mind. Alas!
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Mar 10, 2013 10:34
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Cragz posted:Man, if not for XboxPants this thread would have less activity than the official developer forum. Keep fighting the good fight I guess, fella'. It does blow my mind somewhat to know there are people who invested, researched heavily and continue to believe this will end up as anything but an emulation and media machine like any other cheap-rear end Android STB/stick. (Note: That's not necessarily a bad thing). Oh come on, what's with the "possibly faked  " thing? The xbmc people have even taken it out in public and shown it off at their little booth, which there is footage of on YouTube.I care enough to keep posting largely because other people care enough to keep trying. I like to have discussions/debates like this and for whatever reason people are more than happy to keep talking about it. I am interested in EARLY and would like to see it succeed, but the reason I post constantly is because people constantly reply, often directly ask me stuff, etc. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 10:54
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XboxPants, did you spend a considerable amount of time in the Console Wars subforum on Gamespot as a child?
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Mar 10, 2013 10:57
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XboxPants posted:Oh come on, what's with the "possibly faked The fact it's not shown hooked up to the TV or having its buttons pressed? I'll concede it's almost certainly real - the word "possibly" doesn't imply a level of likelihood, so my initial sentiment isn't invalid*. Keep in mind I've bought one of these things so I'd certainly prefer it to do the whole media centre thing well! I'm slightly less antagonistic than most detractors. * I know you like to play semantic games 
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Mar 10, 2013 11:12
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gschmidl posted:It's the pyschological phenomenon of justifying a purchase or decision to yourself. I don't know why you'd do it in front of an audience, but... it's the internet, I guess. Right now, for example, there's a shitstorm brewing over a board game Kickstarter that might mean nobody will see their $100 game because the kickstarting company is losing a legal battle against the game's inventor and is clearly in the wrong, and you still get people saying "if you can't afford to lose $100 maybe you shouldn't be on Kickstarter Which board game?
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Mar 10, 2013 11:17
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If the ouya had sold at all well Uhrman would be singing the sales numbers from the roof tops. Regardless of her general hucksterism it would be the only sane thing to do, it would chasten the naysayers and encourage developers it is a viable platform. There is straight up no reason not to mention sales figures in this case unless they're bad.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:29
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theflyingorc posted:Which board game? Up Front, being kickstarted by Valley Games while they're being sued by Phil Sauer. The whole story is immensely complicated and not helped by Board Game Geek, where it's being discussed, trying to buy the controversy and banning Sauer. Which of course came out and is adding fuel to the fire. The current thread is here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/941553/what-does-this-mean-for-up-front and includes all the wonderful things we see here and in gamers.txt. But enough of the sidenotes! quote:Ouya as a replacement for EVERYTHING and type documents on the virtual keyboard with the controller trackpad! I'd say "yes I know you can connect a keyboard via Bluetooth" but after the whole DHCP thing, I'm not so sure anymore.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:30
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ReV VAdAUL posted:If the ouya had sold at all well Uhrman would be singing the sales numbers from the roof tops. Regardless of her general hucksterism it would be the only sane thing to do, it would chasten the naysayers and encourage developers it is a viable platform. She could potentially be waiting - There's some sort of keynote thing at MEGA-ULTRA-CON 27 (the biggest event of all time), or maybe it's called SXSW for some reason? Whatever, irrelevant. I do not think that is what is happening at all, but let's cut him off at the pass, why don't we?
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Mar 10, 2013 11:34
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theflyingorc posted:She could potentially be waiting - There's some sort of keynote thing at MEGA-ULTRA-CON 27 (the biggest event of all time), or maybe it's called SXSW for some reason? Whatever, irrelevant. I really, really hope so. Besides sales, at this point, they've yet to do three basic things: - Show someone navigate the store, buy a game, download the game and play the game - Have a confirmed list of games on their official site - Show the finished console and controller ready to be shipped out Maybe they're saving it for SXSW (which I never even knew had a gaming portion until this thread, I always thought it was a film/music festival) but it really should have been done anyway. I'm not asking for the loving sky here. They should be betting everything on the March launch, not the June one. If they think they can just half-rear end March, giving themselves until June to perfect everything, the MAMOSA has already failed.
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Mar 10, 2013 12:41
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XboxPants posted:now the Double Fine Adventure game is coming and the creator of freakin' Portal has announced an exclusive game and it's all brushed off with really lame excuses. Pretty sure the BOOYA folks paid a nice sum of money to get DFA (Codenamed Reds) as a timed exclusive, so this hardly counts as anything other than Double Fine needing to find extra funds to finish their game (as is shown in the documentary). As Reds was coming to Android anyway, this is basically free money for them.
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Mar 10, 2013 13:03
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Who the gently caress is Leon budd?
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Mar 10, 2013 16:33
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Rexicon1 posted:Who the gently caress is Leon budd? The man who would be OUYA.
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Mar 10, 2013 16:36
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Comes from this post earlier.XboxPants posted:Special Note: I made this post with the voice to text on my android phone, which tragically doesn't seem to recognize the word "OUYA". So, in the spirit of this thread, I just used whatever my phone thought I was trying to say, and capitalized it in magical "OUYA" fashion.
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Mar 10, 2013 16:37
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I don't know if anyone else has bothered setting up the GOYA ODK and using an Android emulator (I used Eclipse with Intel HAX) but it's very... GOYA-esque. I don't know if the full hardware versions have more details, additional software, special firmware, or what, because the extent of their interface and store is more or less nonexistent, along with any documentation of how their system will function. They have a decent layout for their controller (although I obviously don't have a controller to test it with) but the rest is just really barebones or not there. Things like IAP, store layout, and interface are up in the air. At best they have a login page where you can login to an account that connects to their official GOYA site, but nothing happens. It's possible that their hardware came with some additional stuff which facilitates development, but it's very silly that they would put non-devunit developers in such a hole like this. Also, their game sample is... hmm. It's just a game menu with an options button and then it goes to a red screen with a quit button. It's just a "hello, world", but you would expect some example of its gaming power for the equivalent of a game "hello, world". Usually you get some sort of video demo at least. Edit: Just to give you an idea: https://devs.ouya.tv/developers/docs/interface-guidelines This details how they want their interface to look. There's absolutely nothing there to make sure that games follow some sort of similar theme so that you don't have every single application behaving in a completely different fashion. Also their code is poo poo. koolkal fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 10, 2013 |
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Mar 10, 2013 17:06
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Going by what I've seen of "ouya developers" in this thread and the last, I'm guessing people are just using Unity or just the regular rear end Android SDK / NDK, seeing as the difference between the Ouya and stock Android seems to be negligible.
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Mar 10, 2013 17:33
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Rexicon1 posted:Who the gently caress is Leon budd? http://obits.nj.com/obituaries/jerseyjournal/obituary.aspx?pid=162401754 Rip in peace, Leon Budd 
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Mar 10, 2013 17:34
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