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Karandras posted:Basilisks are really good for killing MEQ, Manticores are great against tanks, multiwound T4 or T5 guys and anything squishier. The four shots isn't that big a deal because it'll probably get killed before then anyway because it's so good. If anything, the limited ammo is pretty good as it might stop someone killing it on turn 3. Typical! That means I'll probably have to buy both! Thanks for the quick rundown. Is 1 gun enough, or should I bring more before they are effective? Baruch Obamawitz posted:Griffon + 2 something else in a battery: fire the griffon first as a spotter (Accurate Bombardment lets you reroll scatter), then fire the other two guns off it. Huh. I've missed that special rule. I'll take a look at my Codex tonight.
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Mar 13, 2013 14:20
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Ignores cover vs. MEQ Yep, think about the Colossus like this: It's like a Heldrake, but cheaper, less accurate (but can potentially hit more models), more fragile (but you can hide it behind some blocking terrain and it can still fire indirectly whereas the Heldrake has to expose itself to AA guns), and it can fire starting on turn 1 instead of having to wait in reserves. Not bad at all when you look at it that way. Baruch Obamawitz posted:Griffon + 2 something else in a battery: fire the griffon first as a spotter (Accurate Bombardment lets you reroll scatter), then fire the other two guns off it. Plus Griffons are just efficient on their own. Compare them to Whirlwinds, even the cheaper DA version: for 10 points you get 1 more front AV (and 1 less side AV), +1 Strength to its shot, 1 less BS, and Accurate Bombardment. They don't have the S4 AP5 Ignores Cover GEQ-killer missile but Barrage ignores a lot of cover anyway, like the ADL. There usually isn't a lot of area terrain on the tables we play on and S6 is better at killing Orks in a KFF bubble. Phyresis fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 14:26
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Carcer posted:That's a shame. Other than suicide terminators with combi meltas, do any other CSM players actually use their elite slots for anything? There's just nothing in there that looks at all useful, especially stacked up against the rest of the book. I actually don't use suicide terminators too often, preferring to bring a fully kitted squad that can drop in and gently caress with anything my opponent has. I also like to bring small chosen squads, either to deliver melta or to escort characters who I don't want rolling with zerks or cultists. And I have some helbrutes that I bring from time to time because I have them and they look cool. Tommofork posted:they were basically lobotomised to ensure loyalty after the Heresy. This is incorrect. The Gate posted:Broodlords are still only a 4+ save, and only have 2 rolls to get Iron Arm. If you don't get it, they'll die to anything tougher than a sargeant in cc. Don't take 'stealers. Pimped out hormagaunts are cheaper than basic stealers and will do vastly more damage in CC to anything that's not a vehicle. Nah, broodlords are pretty mean in a challenge and will kick the hell out of most ICs short of captains and archons and the like.
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Mar 13, 2013 14:37
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Now that glancing hits can't cause shaken/stunned/immobilized results, how important are Armor Plates and Grot Riggers for Battlewagons in 6th? How important is Fighta Ace on the triple supa-shoota Dakkajets? Is it needed to fight off other fliers, or is it just wasted points that don't apply to their primary use?
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Mar 13, 2013 14:40
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All I know is that if you don't get really lucky with rends, it will roll in and get chopped up in cc by literally anything with decent armor saves. Chaplains are a huge threat to them, and Chaplains are garbage. Just sayin'.
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Mar 13, 2013 14:43
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LordAba posted:Well, Bloodcrushers have the speed to hopefully avoid rapid fire. Plus a full 10 marines rapid firing will barely kill one of them. It's not really hard to drive a rhino 6 inches, walk the passengers another 6 and be in rapid fire range of troops that move 12 inches a turn. And the meltagun/plasmaguns most marine squads pack should round Bloodcrushers losses to about 3-4 per squad shooting at them, more if you are dealing with armies that can get divination, psybolts and such. Not catastrophic, granted, but still necessitates numbers to you have bodies to leave by the wayside. Sephyr fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 14:57
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The Gate posted:Broodlords are still only a 4+ save, and only have 2 rolls to get Iron Arm. If you don't get it, they'll die to anything tougher than a sargeant in cc. Don't take 'stealers. Pimped out hormagaunts are cheaper than basic stealers and will do vastly more damage in CC to anything that's not a vehicle. Paying points to kit out Hormagaunts isn't a great plan when you have access to a wide variety of squad buffs/debuffs from Biomancy and the HQ units. Hormies' main strength is being a cheap screening unit, though unfortunately Gargoyles do basically the same thing except better in essentially every way. However, if you want to use them (and there are a few advantages they have), I think it's better to keep them cheap to give you more bodies. Genestealers are for killing things; Hormagaunts are for protecting things. They do different jobs. TheBlobThing posted:In addition to this question, I'd like to hear if anyone who has experience with IG artillery could give me a quick overview. -The Manticore is one of the better "all-around" artillery pieces. It hurts both tanks and infantry very effectively, despite having a poor AP value, thanks to its ridiculous strength and multiple shots. The limited ammo is very rarely an issue, as an opponent who lets you get four good shots off with a Manticore is probably crippled pretty badly as a result- I find more often than not they die before running out of ammo. It will absolutely devastate non-Marine armies of most kinds and it's great for causing Instant Death on things like Bikers, Thunderwolves, etc. It's hard to go wrong with a Manticore. Keep in mind, however, that it's somewhat unreliable (due to scatter and random number of shots) and often allows armor saves. -The Griffon is a cheap, efficient way to lay wounds on infantry models. It's accuracy and good strength value means it will be very consistent in putting 4-8 wounds on basically any squad in the game; it's a real workhorse and it comes in at an extremely affordable price, less than half that of many of the other pieces. You almost always want to run Griffons in a battery, either with other Griffons or with one of the "heavier" pieces (Colossus being the preferred option due to ignoring cover.) It can do some damage to light tanks and other units, but at the end of the day it just wants to lay pie plates onto guys on foot. -The Colossus is a custom-built anti-MEQ tool; very few things do a better job at murdering a group of supersoldiers hiding behind some cover. It's great for blasting away heavy weapons units hiding in the backfield or taking out a unit you just disembarked from their transport. It kills other races just as well as Marines, of course, but for the points you pay it's really more something that you want to be pointing at a valuable targets. Lacking the accuracy of the Griffon it can be somewhat random, however, especially in smaller ( < 1750) games. It's also a lot of points to invest into a fairly fragile platform. -The Basilisk is a sort of all-rounder piece; there's nothing it's really bad at, but on the other hand there's not anything it truly excels at, either. Higher strength, good AP value, and the Barrage rule combined make it worthwhile against almost every target, but it isn't a guaranteed Marine-killer like the Colossus (since it allows cover saves) and it isn't nearly as cheap or accurate as the Griffon, nor does it have the devastating ability to break up vehicle formations like the Manticore. You pay a fair price for it and it certainly can murder most things quite well, but it lacks the focus of the other platforms, so you may find yourself wishing for their more unique traits at times. -The Medusa isn't really an artillery gun but gets group in anyways somehow. It has nothing in common with the others except high gun stats, and you're usually better off paying a bit more for a Leman Russ Demonlisher instead. -The Deathstrike is hilarious and awesome, but shouldn't be taken if you are trying to win games. WhiteWolf123 posted:Now that glancing hits can't cause shaken/stunned/immobilized results, how important are Armor Plates and Grot Riggers for Battlewagons in 6th?
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Mar 13, 2013 15:55
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I found some alternate noise marines a year or so ago and never got around to ordering them. I went looking today, and while I have had no luck I may have found some cultists: http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/ROCKERS.html  (my hosting)
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Mar 13, 2013 16:29
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Just what necrons need... more flyers http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/NECRON_NIGHT_SHROUD_BOMBER.html 
Cataphract fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 16:38
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Cataphract posted:Just what necrons need... more flyers I actually really like the design.  Anyone know what the rules are?
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Mar 13, 2013 16:47
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PierreTheMime posted:I actually really like the design. Well for one they only work outside of the Matrix and are vulnerable to EMP.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:51
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Are Typhus and his plague zombies good for protecting the back field and capping a point closest to my starting position, while more mobile forces run around capping/denying other points, burning down tanks, and blasting Dragonforce (because what else will your Noise Marines play as backing music to your bikes tearing poo poo up, I mean honestly)? Or am I better off going whole-hog on mobility?
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Mar 13, 2013 17:01
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:Are Typhus and his plague zombies good for protecting the back field and capping a point closest to my starting position, while more mobile forces run around capping/denying other points, burning down tanks, and blasting Dragonforce (because what else will your Noise Marines play as backing music to your bikes tearing poo poo up, I mean honestly)? Or am I better off going whole-hog on mobility? Unless you're really concerned about protecting the zombies, Typhus is better of elsewhere using his powers/weapons to full effect. You could sit him in cover with zombies forever, but it would be a bit of a waste. They're Fearless on their own, so it's not like they're going to break or something. I've always been quite underwhelmed by the zombie option since most blasts for clearing chaff are S6+ and would just wipe them out in droves. I guess it depends on the point level and number of models. There's always the option of fielding a tiny allied Chaos Daemons force of a Herald of Nurgle w/ Locus of Fecundity and 10x Plaguebearers for 160pts. If you sit them in cover they have a 2+ save with Feel No Pain and will sit on an objective forever. For an extra 10pts the Herald can have an AP2 weapon which will scare off a lot of units. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 17:08
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Cataphract posted:Just what necrons need... more flyers It's a pimp rear end model. The necron realm of battle board is cool too, I just wish the board itself weren't so overpriced.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:39
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AbusePuppy posted:You can safely dispense with all of these upgrades, as they will very rarely matter. The Dakkajet just isn't very good at shooting down other airplanes, so the Fighta Ace doesn't really help much there; Grot Riggers and Armor Plates are both situational upgrades that aren't going to come up as often as they would need to for the price. Thanks for the feedback. That's kinda what I thought anyways. Cheers.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:44
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The Gate posted:All I know is that if you don't get really lucky with rends, it will roll in and get chopped up in cc by literally anything with decent armor saves. Chaplains are a huge threat to them, and Chaplains are garbage. Just sayin'. The chaplain will need to charge to be much of a threat, and now the broodlord is going first. Cataphract posted:Just what necrons need... more flyers How could you post that and not post this: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/REALM_OF_BATTLE_NECRON_TOMB_CITADEL.html It has a parking spot for your monolith. It owns. BlueInkAlchemist posted:blasting Dragonforce (because what else will your Noise Marines play as backing music to your bikes tearing poo poo up, I mean honestly)? Slayer or something else that's not made for nerds. 
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Mar 13, 2013 17:48
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PeterWeller posted:Slayer or something else that's not made for nerds. And Slayer doesn't attract the exact same crowd? What are peoples load out on Dreads these days? I know they aren't the best, but I just like to casually play. I like Las/Missile in the backfield for safe long range AT, but I am thinking of putting one in a pod for my DA and throwing the idea around of basic MM/PF or double HF with the DW upgrade. Keep it cheap with a bit of survivability.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:56
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PeterWeller posted:
A full on Stargate homage, that's excellent.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:56
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PeterWeller posted:The chaplain will need to charge to be much of a threat, and now the broodlord is going first. Khorne Berserkers play Slayer. Noise Marines definitely play nerdy poo poo like DragonForce and Bolt Thrower.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:58
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JoshTheStampede posted:Khorne Berserkers play Slayer. Noise Marines definitely play nerdy poo poo like DragonForce and Bolt Thrower. I always thought that they'd play something like dubstep. Wubbing people into greasy stains.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:01
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Goat Bouillabaise posted:I always thought that they'd play something like dubstep. Wubbing people into greasy stains. Yeah, good point. Noise Marines play Skrillex out of one speaker and DragonForce out of the other.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:02
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JoshTheStampede posted:Yeah, good point. Noise Marines play Skrillex out of one speaker and DragonForce out of the other. Or maybe sonic blasters shoot metal and blastmasters fire wub?
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Mar 13, 2013 18:05
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I see them churning out gabber or crap like Ultraviolence. CSM Terminator Lord with MoS and Brand or Lucius in a mono-Slaanesh list?
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Mar 13, 2013 18:31
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Khorne Flakes posted:And Slayer doesn't attract the exact same crowd? Slayer is for the discerning metal fan.  JoshTheStampede posted:Khorne Berserkers play Slayer. Noise Marines definitely play nerdy poo poo like DragonForce and Bolt Thrower. Zerks jam poo poo like Pantera's Great Southern Trendkill and Vision of Disorder's Imprint. They don't gently caress around with pussy poo poo like melodies.
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Mar 13, 2013 19:09
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I know the standard wisdom is to take Tau with allies for a bit of melee punch but would doing it the other way around work? I was thinking of adding the Forgeworld XV9 character in a unit of Plasma/Missile crisis suits, plus some Fire Warriors to sit in cover to my Chaos army. The way I see it is 20 cultists with 2 special weapons is 118 points, while 12 Fire Warriors is 120 and you're trading up to 4+ armour and a S5 30" range gun at the cost of 8 bodies. The rest of my army is two squads of CSM with Marks of Nurgle, one plasma one melta, a Helldrake and a unit of Combi-Weapon terminators led by a Tzeentch sorcerer. Edit: should mention I mostly just play friendly, uncompetitive Warhammer with good friends.
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Mar 13, 2013 19:52
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JoshTheStampede posted:Khorne Berserkers play Slayer. Noise Marines definitely play nerdy poo poo like DragonForce and Bolt Thrower. JoshTheStampede, You've revealed your utter lack of familiarity with metal by inferring that DragonForce and Bolt Thrower are the same.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:05
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PeterWeller posted:Slayer is for the discerning metal fan. I don't think Noise Marines can discern much after a thousand years of excess. It has to be fast, loud, pointless, hopped up on its own hype... you know, just like Dragonforce. 
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Mar 13, 2013 20:11
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:I don't think Noise Marines can discern much after a thousand years of excess. It has to be fast, loud, pointless, hopped up on its own hype... you know, just like Dragonforce. Actually, the fluff states the opposite. Noise Marines have highly developed and discerning hearing, which means they probably jam a lot of jazz fusion like Weather Report.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:14
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PeterWeller posted:Actually, the fluff states the opposite. Noise Marines have highly developed and discerning hearing, which means they probably jam a lot of jazz fusion like Weather Report. Shows what I know. Gotta wonder, though, if they might ever play some absolute speed-metal bullshit just to piss off the nearby Khorne followers even more. "WHAT IS THAT BULLSHIT THAT ISN'T SLAYER ARGHARHAR:HRARGHLE  H:GH:GHG" *eviscerates the enemy*
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Mar 13, 2013 20:20
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PeterWeller posted:Actually, the fluff states the opposite. Noise Marines have highly developed and discerning hearing, which means they probably jam a lot of jazz fusion like Weather Report. This is why Chaos Marines don't have all the latest equipment like loyalist Marines. All the dark tithes are spent on over hyped audio equipment and rigging the rhino's doom siren with vintage heresy era speakers because the errors and distortion "add flavor to the sound". Audiophiles 
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Mar 13, 2013 20:31
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Did the flier book supplement make any changes to the rules for the Dakkajet like it did for the Stormtalon?
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Mar 13, 2013 20:39
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They renamed the Figher Ace rule to Flyboss but that's it.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:42
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Bionic Psyker posted:This is why Chaos Marines don't have all the latest equipment like loyalist Marines. All the dark tithes are spent on over hyped audio equipment and rigging the rhino's doom siren with vintage heresy era speakers because the errors and distortion "add flavor to the sound". Meanwhile, the Thousand sons are used as a brass band by their sorcerers.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:45
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PeterWeller posted:Actually, the fluff states the opposite. Noise Marines have highly developed and discerning hearing, which means they probably jam a lot of jazz fusion like Weather Report. Devin Townsend all the way.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:54
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LordAba posted:Well, Bloodcrushers have the speed to hopefully avoid rapid fire. Plus a full 10 marines rapid firing will barely kill one of them. Looking at the rest of your list you will probably be using them to counter-charge/support the movement of the chariots so they will be low priority (AP3 flamers on AV10 chariots will be taking a lot of shots). A big unit of 8 will be battlecannon bait. With deny the witch gaze of despair is no longer very effective against anyone that gets the 4+ and the loads of stuff like eldar runes and psychic hoods that go on the characters you're trying to lock up, even that 43 point brood lord is pretty terrible too. Stealers just got flat out neutered this edition and using them as bubble wrap or delivery for a brood lord tends to be a disaster with a high price tag. I love my stealers, have 21 models and a brood lord model, but they haven't seen action since they got bitchslapped so hard the hive mind felt it when I kept them for my first few games of 6th.
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Mar 13, 2013 21:08
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MasterSlowPoke posted:They renamed the Figher Ace rule to Flyboss but that's it. Ok cool. Thanks. Did they clarify that it gets the bonus against Flyers? The original PDF only said Jetbikes and Skimmer types. WhiteWolf123 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 21:08
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PeterWeller posted:Actually, the fluff states the opposite. Noise Marines have highly developed and discerning hearing, which means they probably jam a lot of jazz fusion like Weather Report. It's got to be total blast beat, black metal stuff like Septic Flesh, Behemoth, Gorgoroth and Dark Funeral. Lots of notes, real evil sounding. No jazz fusion. On a related note, I've never seen a noise marine chapter painted up in corpse paint and have always wondered why. Next project, check.
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Mar 13, 2013 21:11
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Did they clarify that it gets the bonus against Flyers? The original PDF only said Jetbikes and Skimmer types. Yeah, they did.
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Mar 13, 2013 21:54
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Nighttheii posted:Yeah, they did. Awesome. I was hoping they would. Thanks again.
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Mar 13, 2013 22:17
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Thanks for all those IG artillery explanations! I was thinking about adding a pair into my Iron Warriors legion army. The bombard is one of my favorite models so its the excuse I'm looking for. Regarding the accurate bombardment rule- could you use it with a vindicator or demolisher tank? As in- griffon shoots within 24" of ordinance tank and then gets a guaranteed hit with the vindi/demolisher? I'm sure it doesn't work like that, but if it does, hot dog.
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Mar 13, 2013 23:24
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