Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Read about a new car? Thats the 2024 Giant Piece of Shit

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Steve French: Sep 8, 2003

The Midniter posted:

This may be a dumb question but I stumbled upon some WTCC racing on Speed a couple weeks ago, and the commentators (who were British, by the way) were stumbling over each other and gushing praise on the Cruze chassis being easily the best out of all the cars in the lineup. Is a WTCC-spec chassis different from what is available for a retail customer? I would expect more race-ready bits on the WTCC car, but the chassis itself would be the same as the car in your corner Chevy dealership, no? If so, where is that disparity coming from?

I'm definitely not an expert, but I went to the WTCC race last year at Sonoma, and took a few photos from the pit:

http://imgur.com/a/9zs0U

Unfortunately not many of the Cruze, but that might give some idea of what modifications are done to those cars from stock (and yeah, the Cruze dominated the race)

# ? Mar 13, 2013 21:13

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:33

oRenj9: Aug 3, 2004; Who loves oRenj soda?!?; College Slice

IOwnCalculus posted:

More realistically I eventually see the horsepower wars ending and settling out with power levels closer to where they were 10 years ago, just from smaller engines.

This is probably true. Around 170HP seems to be the power level that the typical American consumer finds acceptable (in a 3400lb vehicle).

# ? Mar 13, 2013 21:15

davebo: Nov 15, 2006; Parallel lines do meet, but they do it incognito; College Slice

Bob NewSCART posted:

I don't think it's reasonable to think that manufacturers will just do a complete 180, and start trimming power rather than adding it. Horsepower has been steadily rising for quite a bit of time, I mean hell you can get a hyundai with over 400 horsepower nowadays.

I'm sure everyone will continue to have flagship vehicles with a lot of power but most cars will probably slowly creep down in horsepower as manufacturers engineer sweet spots for fuel efficieny vs. highest possible 0-60 times and things like that. Does anyone know if the turbo 4cyl Mustang will actually have equal/more power than the current V6?

# ? Mar 13, 2013 21:19

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Gee it's almost as if car makers will cater to lots of different market segments with different vehicles, power plants & economies.

Just like now.

# ? Mar 13, 2013 21:50

Mental Hospitality: Jan 5, 2011

Throatwarbler posted:

Who is saying this?

Weird. Now I've heard great and terrible things about it.

quote:

Our long-term 2013 Dodge Dart is equipped with the optional automated manual transmission. Chrysler calls it DDCT (Dual Dry Clutch Transmission). It is the sole gearbox available with the 1.4-liter turbo engine other than the row-it-yourself manual. And it is...how do you say...not good.

It's down to its molasses-slow (albeit very smooth) shifts and an easily-confused calibration. Go ahead, DDCT, complete that gear change. Aaaany time you're ready. It's not quite Smart ForTwo bad, but it's bad. If you floor the gas, you're waiting a good couple of one-thousands until it finally realizes "oh, you wanted to go?" and goes on safari to hunt down a suitable cog. And it gets tripped up easily in conditions that involve slowing down and then briskly speeding back up.

Taking matters into your own hands by slotting the lever into manual mode doesn't solve it, either. Too slow to respond to commanded shifts, and then you still have those belabored gear-change speeds.

It is unfortunate that the gearbox tends to overshadow the things the Dart does well. I am fairly certain you'll be hearing many DDCT-related gripes in the ensuing months.

http://www.edmunds.com/dodge/dart/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-dodge-dart-sxt-rallye-ddct-transmission-is-substandard.html

http://youtu.be/KAfCknkU4uc?t=4m49s

# ? Mar 13, 2013 22:09

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

davebo posted:

I'm sure everyone will continue to have flagship vehicles with a lot of power but most cars will probably slowly creep down in horsepower as manufacturers engineer sweet spots for fuel efficieny vs. highest possible 0-60 times and things like that. Does anyone know if the turbo 4cyl Mustang will actually have equal/more power than the current V6?

I heard that the V6 is still going to be the base model, and the EcoBoost 4cyl is going to be an upgrade, so I would assume it's planned to produce more power. I'll be very interested to see how it works out.

# ? Mar 13, 2013 22:57

CAT INTERCEPTOR: Nov 9, 2004; Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

The Midniter posted:

This may be a dumb question but I stumbled upon some WTCC racing on Speed a couple weeks ago, and the commentators (who were British, by the way) were stumbling over each other and gushing praise on the Cruze chassis being easily the best out of all the cars in the lineup. Is a WTCC-spec chassis different from what is available for a retail customer? I would expect more race-ready bits on the WTCC car, but the chassis itself would be the same as the car in your corner Chevy dealership, no? If so, where is that disparity coming from?

There's is almost nothing left of a stock Cruze for WTCC - the entire front and rear subframes are tossed and a highly purpose built space subframe put back in. So no, the chassis is not anything like the road car.

# ? Mar 13, 2013 22:59

DJ Commie: Feb 29, 2004; Stupid drivers always breaking car, Gronk fix car...

Front and rear subframes do not mean its not a stock chassis, but neither does a seam-welded souble-skinned body in white.

# ? Mar 13, 2013 23:14

CAT INTERCEPTOR: Nov 9, 2004; Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

DJ Commie posted:

Front and rear subframes do not mean its not a stock chassis, but neither does a seam-welded souble-skinned body in white.

Ummmm..... no. Tossing the front and rear for purpose built replacements is fundamentally changing the chassis to something a hell of a lot different.

# ? Mar 13, 2013 23:41

kimbo305: Jun 9, 2007; actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Bob NewSCART posted:

I don't think it's reasonable to think that manufacturers will just do a complete 180, and start trimming power rather than adding it. Horsepower has been steadily rising for quite a bit of time, I mean hell you can get a hyundai with over 400 horsepower nowadays.

Once cars get robotized, I think hp will top out. Cars accelerating as fast as they can with the minimal safety margin possible will get people moving through traffic at a pace that won't require 300 or 400 hp. In the same way that acceleration is determined by area under the dyno curve, how fast you get moving depends on how soon you start and how late you get off the throttle.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 00:38

Left Ventricle: Feb 24, 2006; Right aorta

Throatwarbler posted:

IN other new GM car news, The W body Impala will continue production into MY2014.

travisray2004 posted:

Hasn't this been Chevy's basic model for the past decade or so? Use the excess parts on popular outgoing models for fleet-only versions.

Indeed. The 2000-01 Lumina, the 2000 Silverado (GMT400), the 2004-05 Malibu Classic, the 2008 Malibu Classic, and now the Impala have all been fleet-only last generation models sold with some deep discounts. Tooling is already long paid for, so there's really no reason not to. And it's not like it'll change anything for the current Impala anyway, which I've only seen around town as rentals and cop cars for a couple years now.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 02:50

telarium4: Jul 23, 2010

oRenj9 posted:

This is probably true. Around 170HP seems to be the power level that the typical American consumer finds acceptable (in a 3400lb vehicle).

Interesting you say that - as my old 2004 Audi A4 - sat around 170HP. Once you got past the turbolag of that poor 1.8T, it moved quite nicely - even with the quattro weight penalty. With zippy 8-speed transmissions/DCTs, and improvements in forced induction (I'm looking at you, BMW), I'd be curious to see where the automakers, and subsequently customers, will turn.

I also purchased the poster-child of the engine downsizing trend: A 2011 Audi S4. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a 'typical American consumer' purchase -- but I'd like to see how supercharging or 'turbolag-less' turbocharging hits the market.

I remember my Thermo professor was an engine guy -- and he gave us a primer on his research involving ever-more efficient ways to burn fuel and extract work from smaller and lighter engines. I also recall him mentioning that the Materials Science guys working with him would have weekly aneurysms. From a broader standpoint, we're limited by Carnot -- but I wonder what new materials are going to make their way into the market, and buck the trend of "either strength or ductility, but not both."

# ? Mar 14, 2013 05:02

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Even if the average american has 170hp, they're only going to use maybe the first 40 or 50 of them because they're afraid of rpms. I'm honestly not sure how to fix this. Maybe hybrid technology that quietly boosts horsepower during acceleration and largely hides scary engine sounds?

# ? Mar 14, 2013 12:04

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

grover posted:

Even if the average american has 170hp, they're only going to use maybe the first 40 or 50 of them because they're afraid of rpms. I'm honestly not sure how to fix this. Maybe hybrid technology that quietly boosts horsepower during acceleration and largely hides scary engine sounds?

Diesels, but with 7-8000rpm tachometers. That way, they can drive below 3000rpm, still have decent power and not feel like they're doing something dangerous.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 12:06

AdmiralViscen: Nov 2, 2011

New range rover spied, no camo

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/13/are-you-the-2014-range-rover-sport

You can probably already guess what it looks like.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 13:18

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

AdmiralViscen posted:

New range rover spied, no camo

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/13/are-you-the-2014-range-rover-sport

You can probably already guess what it looks like.

Why do manufacturers bother with camo on cars like this in the first place? Seems like enthusiast feedback on early designs would be a good thing, not a bad one.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 16:00

G-Mach: Feb 6, 2011

KozmoNaut posted:

Diesels, but with 7-8000rpm tachometers. That way, they can drive below 3000rpm, still have decent power and not feel like they're doing something dangerous.

That would mean a majority of American's would have to learn how to drive a manual.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 16:10

DropShadow: Apr 15, 2003

grover posted:

Why do manufacturers bother with camo on cars like this in the first place? Seems like enthusiast feedback on early designs would be a good thing, not a bad one.

Yeah, because focus groups are always right on the money. By the time a vehicle is at this stage, its styling is finished, and no amount of consumer feedback is going to change it. See the new Cherokee, for example. And manufacturers camouflage their pre-production cars so other manufacturers don't steal their design cues and rush them to market first.

Mitsubishi: "Hey Land Rover, nice headlights!" YOINK.

Honda: "Hey BMW, nice window line and body lines!"

China: "Hey Ford ... "

DropShadow fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Mar 14, 2013

# ? Mar 14, 2013 16:41

The Midniter: Jul 9, 2001

DropShadow posted:

Mitsubishi: "Hey Land Rover, nice headlights!" YOINK.

You have to admit, while the headlights are a bit of a carbon copy of the Mitsu, that the Land Rover's look much nicer the way the hood line is flush with the entire expanse of the lens rather than flowing down right into the middle of it.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 18:32

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

G-Mach posted:

That would mean a majority of American's would have to learn how to drive a manual.

Nah, a lazy slushbox will be good enough. Unless they really floor it, a diesel will never even hit 3500rpm.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 18:40

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

The Midniter posted:

You have to admit, while the headlights are a bit of a carbon copy of the Mitsu, that the Land Rover's look much nicer the way the hood line is flush with the entire expanse of the lens rather than flowing down right into the middle of it.

That Mitsubishi looks a lot more like the old Focus.

# ? Mar 14, 2013 18:44

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

I went to the Calgary Auto Show yesterday, and I have to say it was pretty uninspiring. I was impressed with the strides Cadillac has made in terms of making desirable cars, but everything else was pretty boring. I sat in the beautiful-looking Ford Fusion, and soon discovered that a lot of what makes it so attractive makes it awful on the inside. I had absolutely no visibility of where the front of the car ended, and the dash seems to go on forever. I'm also angry with Ford because the amazing seats in the Focus ST are not available as an option on the Mustang, which they should be because they're excellent.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 17:55

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

PT6A posted:

I went to the Calgary Auto Show yesterday, and I have to say it was pretty uninspiring. I was impressed with the strides Cadillac has made in terms of making desirable cars, but everything else was pretty boring. I sat in the beautiful-looking Ford Fusion, and soon discovered that a lot of what makes it so attractive makes it awful on the inside. I had absolutely no visibility of where the front of the car ended, and the dash seems to go on forever. I'm also angry with Ford because the amazing seats in the Focus ST are not available as an option on the Mustang, which they should be because they're excellent.

Did they have the ford atlas or the 2014 GM/chevy pickups there? i'm debating driving down this afternoon for it.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:02

Franco Caution: Jul 18, 2003; Wicked. Tricksy. False.

PT6A posted:

I went to the Calgary Auto Show yesterday, and I have to say it was pretty uninspiring. I was impressed with the strides Cadillac has made in terms of making desirable cars, but everything else was pretty boring. I sat in the beautiful-looking Ford Fusion, and soon discovered that a lot of what makes it so attractive makes it awful on the inside. I had absolutely no visibility of where the front of the car ended, and the dash seems to go on forever. I'm also angry with Ford because the amazing seats in the Focus ST are not available as an option on the Mustang, which they should be because they're excellent.

I thought I read somewhere that the Mustang has it's own set of Recaros but they weren't that great.
I need to find a Focus ST with that option to go sit in and try them out.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:14

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

I think the Boss 302 had a nice Recaro option but the pleb Mustangs don't.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:30

Snowdens Secret: Dec 29, 2008; Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.

What would be the point of spending the money on super-fancy seats in a Mustang if you'll only ever need the edge

# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:34

Q_res: Oct 29, 2005; We're fucking built for this shit!

Seat Safety Switch posted:

I think the Boss 302 had a nice Recaro option but the pleb Mustangs don't.

Nah, you can get Recaros on any Mustang. You can even get Cloth Recaros on the base V6.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 19:01

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Powershift posted:

Did they have the ford atlas or the 2014 GM/chevy pickups there? i'm debating driving down this afternoon for it.

The Ford, no, and I'm not sure about GMC or Chevy pickups because I've never particularly liked them and I don't have any use for a pickup anyway.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 19:12

VanNuys: Feb 25, 2013; by Debbie Metallica

Q_res posted:

Nah, you can get Recaros on any Mustang. You can even get Cloth Recaros on the base V6.

I worked at a ford dealership for a while, and I left about 6 months ago. There was a popular "sport" package v6 Mustang with a nice sound system and really nice recaros we sold A LOT of in Northern California. I don't know if it was a specific package or just an options list the dealer found sold well, but we had multiple stangs with the same kit out, all V6s.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 21:23

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Q_res posted:

Nah, you can get Recaros on any Mustang. You can even get Cloth Recaros on the base V6.

In that case I'm off to go buy a pleb Mustang.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 21:26

cakesmith handyman: Jul 22, 2007; Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

The Midniter posted:

You have to admit, while the headlights are a bit of a carbon copy of the Mitsu, that the Land Rover's look much nicer the way the hood line is flush with the entire expanse of the lens rather than flowing down right into the middle of it.

Those hoods are popular with manufacturers because you can be lazy with the alignment. On a normal hood you can see both side panel gaps from the same point so it has to be straight.

# ? Mar 15, 2013 23:06

adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

Giblet Plus! posted:

Curb weight, 3,211 lb

So I went and test drove a Dart today, here are my thoughts.

1) a lot of fancy electronics for an "entry level" sedan.
2) it felt REALLY slow. Until about 5mph. Once the turbo began to spool, which was early, it felt just as fast as my Civic SI did.
3) steering was very tight
4) the inside is way bigger than you would expect for the class. It feels more like an accord than it does a civic.
5) did i mention all the cool gizmos? back up camera, satellite radio, navigation, bluetooth, SD card slot, USB, ipod controls, plus the normally standard power windows, mirrors, locks, and sunroof.

I walked away a 6spd 1.4 turbo with 2300 miles (was used for a chrysler demo over the summer) for less than $20k OTD. So far my only gripes are that the turn indicator sound is very loud and the gas cap is on the passenger side.

edit: there is also a pretty significant lag in the accelerator from the drive by wire system. I assume it's an intentional torque management "feature" but it makes downshifting a bit more difficult. I believe it will be fixed with an inevitable 3rd party computer flash/upgrade.

adorai fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Mar 17, 2013

# ? Mar 16, 2013 23:26

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Don't forget to post pics in the post your ride thread!

# ? Mar 17, 2013 00:19

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Autoline After Hours has an interesting discussion about car interiors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsayP9wGTGA

# ? Mar 18, 2013 12:11

KozmoNaut: Apr 23, 2008; Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle

Oh wow, Autoline suck rear end. How much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpE9jEaTHOI

Apparently adjustable headlights on the 2013 is something they consider worthy of a video. Gee-whiz, what amazing features will they think of next? :rolleyes:

# ? Mar 18, 2013 13:32

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

THe new CTS is going to get a twin turbo V6 and an 8 speed trans.

quote:

DETROIT � Cadillac today announced details of a new Twin-Turbo V-6 engine and eight-speed transmission � firsts for the brand and signature features of the all-new 2014 Cadillac CTS midsize luxury sedan debuting next week at the New York Auto Show.

The Cadillac Twin-Turbo V-6 is the most power-dense six-cylinder engine in the midsize luxury segment � a 3.6L with 118 horsepower per liter (88 kW/liter) � and the eight-speed automatic enhances fuel economy and acceleration over a six-speed automatic.

"The new Cadillac Twin-Turbo brings a new dimension of technologically advanced performance to the all-new 2014 Cadillac CTS sedan," said David Leone, executive chief engineer. "Delivering power and sophistication, it marks another large step forward in the product-driven expansion of Cadillac."

Rated at an SAE-certified 420 horsepower (313 kW) and 430 lb.-ft. of torque (583 Nm), it is the most powerful V-6 ever from General Motors. It also has 15 percent greater power density than BMW 535i's turbocharged 3.0L six, which is rated at 300 horsepower (223 kW), for a ratio of 100 horsepower per liter (74 kW/liter) � and even the BMW 550i's TwinPower 4.4L V-8, rated at 400 horsepower (298 kW), or 91 horsepower per liter (68 kW/liter). Power density is a measure of efficiency for an engine's size.

A pair of smaller turbochargers and an efficient charge air cooler help provide more immediate power delivery. Additionally, approximately 90 percent of the 3.6L Twin-Turbo's peak torque is available from 2,500 rpm to 5,500 rpm, giving the engine a broad torque curve that customers will feel as strong, willing power in almost all driving conditions, such as accelerating or overtaking traffic on the highway.

Those features help the new CTS sedan reach 60 mph from a standstill in an estimated 4.6 seconds and achieve an estimated top speed of 170 mph (274 kph).

The new Cadillac Twin-Turbo will expand the performance envelope of the upcoming 2014 CTS midsize luxury sedan, launching this fall in the United States. The engine will also will be offered in the 2014 XTS large luxury sedan this fall.

The new engine is a comprehensive upgrade on the 60-degree, 3.6L DOHC V-6 offered in today's SRX, XTS and ATS. However, almost every component is unique. New features include:

All-new cylinder block casting
All-new cylinder head castings
Strengthened connecting rods
Machined, domed aluminum pistons with top steel ring carrier for greater strength
10.2:1 compression ratio
Patented, integrated charge air cooler system with low-volume air ducts
Two turbochargers produce more than 12 pounds of boost (80 kPa)
Vacuum-actuated wastegates with electronic control valves
All-new direct injection fuel system
Tuned air inlet and outlet resonators, aluminum cam covers and other features that contribute to exceptional quietness and smoothness.
The 2014 CTS sedan will also feature the naturally aspirated 3.6L V-6 rated at 321 horsepower, as well as a 2.0L turbocharged engine rated at an estimated 272 horsepower.

Proven foundation, new features

Because the Cadillac Twin-Turbo is based on the same architecture as the existing naturally aspirated 3.6L V-6, it benefits from many proven technologies including dual-overhead camshafts, variable valve timing and direct injection. Key features also include:

A durable forged steel crankshaft that contributes to greater high-rpm smoothness
A friction-reducing polymer coating on the piston skirts, as well as fully floating wrist pins that help reduce friction
Pressure-actuated oil squirters drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil
A cast aluminum oil pan is stiffer to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration. It bolts to the transmission bell housing as well as the engine block, eliminating points of vibration.
The cylinder block casting is unique to the turbocharged engine with cast-in provisions for turbocharger coolant and oil connections, as well as positive crankcase ventilation passages. It uses nodular iron main bearing caps for greater strength to manage the higher cylinder pressures that come with turbocharging.

The cylinder heads are also unique to the Cadillac Twin-Turbo. They feature a high-tumble intake port design that enhances the motion of the air charge for a more-efficient burn when it is mixed with the direct-injected fuel and ignited in the combustion chamber. The topology of the pistons, which feature centrally located dishes to direct the fuel spray from the injectors, is an integral design element of the chamber design, as the piston heads become part of the combustion chamber with direct injection.

"The high-tumble heads were developed with advanced modeling programs that helped us determine the optimal design in less time and with less trial and error," said Richard Bartlett, assistant chief engineer for the 3.6L engine. "Literally hundreds of simulations were performed to optimize the port flow, injector spray angle and pattern, and piston topology to produce a highly efficient yet powerful combustion chamber."

Large, 38.3-mm intake valves and 30.6-mm sodium-filled exhaust valves enable the engine to process tremendous airflow. In some conditions, the continuously variable valve timing system enables overlap conditions � when the intake and exhaust valves in a combustion chamber are briefly open at the same time � to promote airflow scavenging that helps spool the turbochargers quicker for faster boost production.

Hardened AR20 valve seat material on the exhaust side is used for its temperature robustness, while the heads are sealed to the block with multilayer-steel gaskets designed for the pressure of the turbocharging system.

As with the naturally aspirated 3.6L, the heads feature integral exhaust manifolds, although upper and lower water jackets were added to the heads to provide uniform temperature distribution and optimal heat rejection. On top of the heads, new aluminum cam covers enhance quietness and are designed with greater positive crankcase ventilation volume to support the turbo system.

Integrated charge air cooling

Another unique feature of the Cadillac Twin-Turbo is its efficient manner of processing the pressurized air charge through the cylinder heads and into the combustion chambers. A single, centrally located throttle body atop the engine controls the air charge from both turbochargers after the temperature is reduced in the intercooler. This efficient design fosters more immediate torque response, for a greater feeling of power on demand, and reduces complexity by eliminating the need for a pair of throttle bodies.

Using a pair of smaller turbochargers rather than a single, larger turbo also helps ensure immediate performance, because smaller turbochargers spool up � achieve boost-producing turbine speed � quicker to generate horsepower-building air pressure that is fed into the engine. The Cadillac Twin-Turbo's integrated charge air cooling system also contributes to its immediate response, because the compressors blow through very short pipes up to the intercooler.

With no circuitous heat-exchanger tubing, there is essentially no lag with the response of the turbochargers. In fact, airflow routing volume is reduced by 60 percent when compared with a conventional design that features a remotely mounted heat exchanger.

"It is a very short path from the turbos to the throttle body," said Bartlett. "The compressors draw their air directly from the inlet box and send their pressurized air through the intercooler basically immediately, giving the new CTS a tremendous feeling of power on demand."

The charge-cooling heat exchangers lower the air charge temperature by more than 130 degrees F (74 C), packing the combustion chambers with cooler, denser air for greater power. The twin-brick configuration of the heat exchangers is similar in design and function to the 6.2L supercharged "LSA" engine used on the current CTS-V Series.

"The LSA engine showed us the efficiencies of mounting the intercooler on top of the engine, especially when it came to packaging and maintaining a short, unobstructed path for the air charge," said Bartlett. "It's efficient and effective � and we wanted to build on that experience."

The air cooler system achieves more than 80 percent cooling efficiency with only about 1 psi (7 kPa) flow restriction at peak power, for fast torque production.

Vacuum-activated wastegates

Unique vacuum-actuated wastegates � one per turbocharger � and electronic vacuum-actuated recirculation valves are used with the 3.6L Twin-Turbo for better management of the engine's boost pressure and subsequent torque response for smoother, more consistent performance across the rpm band.

A wastegate is used to regulate the boost pressure of the engine. It provides a method to bypass the exhaust flow from the turbo's turbine wheel, which can be reintroduced into the exhaust stream � via a bypass tube � to maintain optimal turbine speed across the rpm band. Conventional wastegates are pressure-activated, allowing control of the actuator.

The Cadillac Twin-Turbo's vacuum-activated wastegate valves provide more consistent boost control, particularly at lower rpm, to enhance low-rpm torque, for a greater feeling of power at low speeds. They are independently controlled on each engine bank to balance the compressors' output to achieve more precise boost pressure response.

The wastegates also work in concert with the recirculation valves to eliminate co-surge from the turbos � a condition that can result in dynamic flow reversal, such as the moment immediately after the throttle closes. This overall system integration contributes to the engine's smoother, more consistent feeling of performance.

In addition to the vacuum-actuated wastegates and recirculation valves, the engine employs dual mass air flow sensors and an integral inlet air temperature/humidity sensor, a dual-compressor inlet pressure sensor and dual manifold pressure sensors.

Eight speeds, no waiting

The Cadillac Twin-Turbo is paired with a high-performance, paddle-shift eight-speed automatic transmission that offers efficiency and performance advantages over a six-speed transmission � including 1.5-percent greater fuel economy.

The new paddle-shift eight-speed delivers smooth, quick shift performance � as quick as 0.3-second on wide-open-throttle upshifts � with the quietness, smoothness and refinement Cadillac customers expect. Smaller gear steps � closer ratios � support world-class performance, with quicker, more imperceptible shifting.

The wide, 6.71 gear spread of the transmission enables the CTS to deliver strong performance at all rpm levels, while achieving good fuel economy on the highway. A "tall," 0.69-ratio eighth-gear also helps maintain a low engine speed of approximately 1,800 rpm at 70 mph � about 200 rpm lower than a six-speed � which not only enhances efficiency but contributes to a quieter driving experience.

Complete electronic control of the transmission enables it to select the best gear for the driving conditions, allowing the transmission to "skip" one or more gears, if appropriate, when up-shifting or down-shifting. In manual mode, torque converter lockup is used in gears two through eight to balance performance and efficiency, while preserving the maximum torque multiplication in first gear for optimal launch performance

The CTS development team tailored the transmission for the high torque output of Cadillac 3.6L Twin-Turbo, which included stronger gear sets and a greater number of clutch plates. The team also wove in driver-selectable performance features enable the transmission to hold lower gears during certain performance-driving situations, for a more connected and responsive driving experience with the new turbocharged engine.

Paddle-shift control enables the driver manual control of the gear changes, for the ultimate feeling of control of the turbocharged CTS.

Cadillac has been a leading luxury auto brand since 1902. In recent years, Cadillac has engineered a historic renaissance led by artful engineering and advanced technology. More information on Cadillac can be found at media.cadillac.com.

# # #

2014 Cadillac CTS Powertrain Preliminary Specifications

Engines

2.0L Turbo DI VVT

3.6L V-6 DI VVT

3.6L V-6 Twin-Turbo DI VVT

Displacement (cu in / cc):

122 / 1998

217 / 3564

217 / 3564

Bore & stroke (in / mm):

3.39 x 3.39 / 86 x 86

3.70 x 3.37 / 94 x 85.6

3.70 x 3.37 / 94 x 85.6

Block material:

cast aluminum

cast aluminum

cast aluminum

Cylinder head material:

cast aluminum

cast aluminum

cast aluminum

Valvetrain:

DOHC, four-valves per cylinder, continuously variable valve timing

DOHC, four valves per cylinder, continuously variable valve timing

DOHC, four valves per cylinder, continuously variable valve timing

Fuel delivery:

direct high-pressure fuel injection

direct high-pressure fuel injection

direct high-pressure fuel injection

Compression ratio:

9.5:1

11.5:1

10.2:1

Horsepower (hp / kW @ rpm):

272 / 203 @ 5500 (est.)

321 / 239 @ 6800*

(gas)

420 / 313 @ 5750 (SAE-certified)

Torque
(lb-ft / Nm @ rpm):

295 / 400 @ 1700-5500 (est.)

275 / 373 @ 4800* (gas)

430 / 583 @ 3500-4500 (SAE-certified)

Recommended fuel:

premium recommended but not required

regular unleaded or E85

premium required

Maximum engine speed (rpm):

7000

7200

6500

GM-estimated economy (city / hwy):

19 / 30 RWD

18 / 28 AWD

19 / 28 RWD

18 / 27 AWD

17 / 25

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/18/cadillac-confirms-420-hp-twin-turbo-v6-for-2014-cts-w-videos/

Kind of interesting that they're using top mounted intercoolers, don't think anyone's done that before on a 60* V6.

Also the scuttlebutt is that the 8 speed trans is the Toyota unit, which doesn't have as good a reputation as the ZF.

# ? Mar 18, 2013 16:42

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

Jesus christ, I don't know that I ever thought I'd see a factory 420hp V6, let alone from GM :psyduck:

I also find it a bit interesting, though, since it doesn't seem to get that much better mileage (at least on the EPA test) than the LS3 would, and surely this engine would cost more to produce.

Also, if Buick ever decides to bring back the Grand National... there's your engine.

# ? Mar 18, 2013 16:52

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

Maybe the endless forums badgering has finally gotten to them and they can just now say that all the engines in the CTS are OHC.

# ? Mar 18, 2013 16:59

IOwnCalculus: Apr 2, 2003

I don't think so, actually - I don't see any mention of calling the 420hp CTS a CTS-V. I get two possibilities out of this. One, GM could be discontinuing the CTS-V altogether, but I doubt that.

Two, the CTS-V comes back in the future after the C7 Z06/ZL1 show up with whatever engines replace the LS7/LS9, and has a new 550-600hp V8 replacing the LSA, allowing the turbo V6 to slot in beneath it.

At that point the odd duck in the lineup seems to be the naturally aspirated V6, since it's only a 50hp bump from the turbo four.

# ? Mar 18, 2013 17:06

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 20:33

davebo: Nov 15, 2006; Parallel lines do meet, but they do it incognito; College Slice

IOwnCalculus posted:

Jesus christ, I don't know that I ever thought I'd see a factory 420hp V6, let alone from GM

The GT-R is still V6 right, not inline 6? That started out at like 480 and is up to 530 now? I don't know exactly how much weight plays a factor but it seems like GM's V8's end up giving better fuel economy than these twin turbo V6's. Didn't they say when launching the C7 that they just couldn't get better fuel economy out of a turbo'd v6 than they were getting from the V8? Does the difference in weight make a turbo 6 the preferable choice for the CTS?

# ? Mar 18, 2013 18:07

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