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Asphyxious posted:Taken at face value though, all the poster said is he wanted the cards. No background info beyond that. Similarly the advice given didn't come with "If they were mispacked then..." Hence the 2nd part of my post? 
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Mar 14, 2013 01:57
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:02 |
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That's fair enough, I think. He has also PMed me and we hashed it out, so it is being rolled back to a day since a week seems excessive with a fair margin of doubt.
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Mar 14, 2013 02:01
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Vulich the Subtle posted:Trolls have always had a good ranged game? Bombers, Impalers, Slag Trolls, Grim1, and Jarl. The Mauler animus works on Impalers, just FYI. I swear, I live in a different reality than most Trollblood players and apparently others have gotten sucked into their aggressive complaining. Bombers are awesome, but all of our beasts are Range 8 unless you're spending 2 fury per beast to give them snipe range 8 isn't a "good ranged game" nor is having a whole heap of ranged infantry that are Rat 5 in a faction with no way to buff them. Troll players are annoyed about the Mountain King because he's objectively worse than a 12 point model and is in no way worth 20 points. If you think that the Winter Troll Animus is the killer tech that's going to keep the Mountain King alive you should probably stop playing against 10 year olds who obligingly charge their infantry into him. Anybody coming to a tournament and expecting to do well these days has a list that can kill a Stormwall or a Galleon, and he's sitting there with the Winter Troll animus on he doesn't have the EBDT Animus, so then he's ARM 21 with a Krielstone, which isn't nearly enough against a dedicated Colossal killer. Trolls are the synergy faction but in order to be a competitive synergy faction things need to be pulling their weight to begin with. A 20 point model shouldn't be a piece of poo poo that i need to bring another 16 points worth of pieces to support to make comparable to a baseline Gargantuan from another faction, a 20 point model should be a force to be reckoned with, which i can then turn into an engine of destruction.
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Mar 14, 2013 02:32
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Verdugo posted:How badly can it end, besides them giving you a refund? A refund for blisters does me little good when I'm left with owning a min unit box that I bought from a store that didn't have blisters because the other store said they did have blisters, and it looks like no more blisters are going to be produced. AKA: I'm going to buy 16 Nyss Hunters.
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Mar 14, 2013 02:58
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Sigh, I find the Cygnar dice hideous looking. I was just looking for a set of square edged dice without recessed pips too. The Cryx ones look super sweet though.
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Mar 14, 2013 03:10
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Cyclomatic posted:Sigh, I find the Cygnar dice hideous looking. I was just looking for a set of square edged dice without recessed pips too. The Cryx ones look super sweet though. Where are you seeing them? I see no preview.
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Mar 14, 2013 03:12
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Where are you seeing them? I see no preview. Someone linked them on the main boards.      
Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 03:21
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I love the Menoth set, do we have any pictures of the Hordes dice yet?
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Mar 14, 2013 03:45
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50pt game tonight, Tier 4 Ossyan against a Tier 3 Zaal list. But not just any Zaal list. MY Zaal list. My friend was playing against me with the Skorne army I had sold him. It's an interesting feeling fighting against a force that I had not only played more than any other, but that I had painted. He was running four Ancestral Guardians, including Hakaar. I had taken out three of them by the end of the game. He never saw a single Kovass; I cycled Shatterstorm throughout the game to RFP them.  It's another one of the spells you never end up using, until the one time you need it and you're glad you have it.Houseguard Riflemen were champs that game. A min unit with the UA managed to finished off a wounded AG and Hakaar while it was engaged with Hypnos in one round, while the second min unit picked off Swordsmen to clear the zone. And my AFG spent two consecutive rounds slamming lights beasts off the same zone. Game ended by Ossyan dominating the zone and the Riflemen blowing up the last enemy objective. And a good thing too, because my friend was about to assassinate me by Hex Blasting Admonition off my caster and then charging me with Zaal (who's MAT 6 POW 9) with Last Stand and his feat, which WOULD have put Ossyan into the ground.
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Mar 14, 2013 04:21
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I have a Gargs book in my hand if anyone has any questions, otherwise I will get back to my fluff reading.
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Mar 14, 2013 04:27
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EDIT: Never mind! Forgot about War Room.
Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 05:14
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Today was a sad day, while using the bathroom someone made off with the box I had my Menoth figures in. Store owner felt bad and is offering me a pretty heavy discount on buying new models though which leaves me with a decision to make. Should I rebuy my menoth stuff or should I start Khador? Can anyone give me a list of the sort of essentials to starting Khador? I'm leaning toward pButcher and pIrusk as my first 2 casters and will probably also get Kayzay, Widowmakers and a WGDS but I am unsure on jacks. Maybe a Spriggan and a Kodiak but probably not going to get the Behemoth yet. edit: I just bought a Khador battlebox for next to nothing so I guess WGDS is next on the list Nightwatcher fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 08:26
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What is up with minions in the new book? Is war room missing entries? They got fewer releases and as an extra kick in the balls no gargantuan either. One caster for each pact, a lesser beast for farrow, a unit for gators, and a gobber who works for everyone else.
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Mar 14, 2013 09:03
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:What is up with minions in the new book? Is war room missing entries? They got fewer releases and as an extra kick in the balls no gargantuan either. One caster for each pact, a lesser beast for farrow, a unit for gators, and a gobber who works for everyone else. Nope, that's it. I don't understand Minions releases either, but that gobber guy is getting bought day 1 
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Mar 14, 2013 09:29
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We've known for awhile that minions weren't getting a gargantuan, but I thought that was so they could get more pieces to help flesh them out. That's very disappointing.
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Mar 14, 2013 10:02
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Calico Noose posted:A 20 point model shouldn't need "a little love" to compare favourably to a 9 point beast. I really don't know what they were thinking with the MK, possibly they massively overvalue Whelps, or something forgot that the Fellcalelr isn't a choir, but until we get a Troll Choir he's a waste of time. In almost every game I've run, my opponent will immediately try to tie down my MK with a lower-value unit. In almost every game, I've subsequently used said tie-down unit as fodder for Killshots to essentially deny my opponent a safe area within a 10" radius around the MK and then trampled out whenever I felt like it without really needing to worry or care about the damage I take from that. The thing to realize about him is that he's not just a melee model. He is a Spray 10 Pow 16 threat which can, given infantry fodder to kill, shoot twice per activation while also being a melee threat who can sweep up infanry models or seriously threaten enemy beasts if that suits you better. The spray has for me been the most useful thing about the model, with whelp shedding being a close second for being essentially the MK's third hidden stat card which says "when your opponent damages this model, gain perfect Fury management and charge lane blocking". I will cop to him being at his most useful with Warlocks who can boost his attacks or reduce enemy defense such as Grissel1, Madrak1 and Grim, but I've also loved him with Gunnbjörn and Rat 5 on a spray is reasonable. My big complaint is that killshot specifies living models, because it means the King is such a snob that he'd rather yell on killing one Trencher than a filthy nonliving Stormwall. The big problem with the Mountain King is simply that it's not a Stormwall or a Mammoth. There's very little on its cards which makes you go "Wow!" when you read them, and a lot of what I learned about the King wasn't apparent until I'd played a couple of games. It doesn't really fill a tactical gap in the army, or fulfill a specific important role that couldn't be done in a different way with those points (and a lot of people would argue "better" but I won't after actually trying it), and it's not a better version of a previous model (fuckin' Stormwall being literally two jacks in one plus extras). Its animus is useful for only two or so models aside from itself (Axer which is a bit redundant and any beast you want to do a lot of power attacks with, i.e. a trampling Mauler). It's just there, daring you to ignore it.
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Mar 14, 2013 13:44
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The problem with the Mountain King isn't that he's neither a Stormwall or Mammoth, he isn't even a Conquest or bloody Archangel. He's quite literally bottom of the bin.
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Mar 14, 2013 13:51
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Konquest has an actual role in a Khador army which it can fulfill and has a tactical niche of its own when combined with a caster like Irusk. Archangel and Mountain King... don't, really. That was my point. They're big models with no real unique niche or obvious synergy, and that just means you're left floundering for an actual tactical reason to bring them. At most I've used his base for a huge Madrak Sure Foot brick, and I hear Thagrosh can bring twenty points back now when the Archangel dies (yaay). But I will not back down from the King being a fine functioning model in actual play on the table, I am not sorry 
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Mar 14, 2013 14:12
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I don't really like some of the choices that are so good that they sort of skew lists to the point where not taking them seems a bit silly. The Cyclone was a somewhat contentious niche warjack before the Stormwall existed, but now it's pretty much pointless when you can just take a Stormwall and get two Defenders and a melee beater on top, with added lightning bullshit bonus. Even the Defender seems to see less and less play and that's a bit sad, because there was nothing wrong with it before and it seems like the power creep they are trying to avoid. Cygnar warjacks still have pretty awesome statlines, but Stormwall exists. It's a bit saddening when a "must buy"-model costs over a hundred bucks as well. And at least Trolls did get epic Grim who looks really awesome and doesn't cost a hundred bucks, so I would argue they did better than Legion. Not really a fan of huge based casters like Lylith 3 for that reason and I hope they keep that stuff out of Khador and Retribution. The Mountain King could've used a bit more love, I guess, and just ends up being the Assault Kommando of the Troll faction: Neat gimmick that can be made to do something unique, but that pales in comparison to other in faction choices in its niche. At least it's better than Kossites. I don't really think every release has to be awesome though and its nice to hear that some people get some use out of it despite it being contentious. Keep on trucking Mountain King. I will keep championing Assault Kommandos so you can complain about Mat 3 instead of Mat 5. (Might as well kick them while they are down) Looking forward to gas grenading the Mammoth a lot more though. 
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Mar 14, 2013 15:47
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The insulting thing about the Mammoth isn't that it's good, it's just how much better it is than the other Gargs. For Stormwall, it's invalidated every heavy Warjack in the faction. Why bother taking Ol Rowdy/Stormclad and a Defender, when you get that, plus an extra Defender, a Cyclone AND the Stormpods for free.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:19
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Flipswitch posted:The insulting thing about the Mammoth isn't that it's good, it's just how much better it is than the other Gargs. There are casters in Cygnar that don't benefit as much from the Stormwall. Yes it makes Darius playable and yes it is brutal with eHaley, but I would still rather run Rowdy with my eCaine and Stryker lists. The Cyclone and Defender still see a lot of use in my area when marshaled to ATGM as well.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:46
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Nightwatcher posted:There are casters in Cygnar that don't benefit as much from the Stormwall. Yes it makes Darius playable and yes it is brutal with eHaley, but I would still rather run Rowdy with my eCaine and Stryker lists. The Cyclone and Defender still see a lot of use in my area when marshaled to ATGM as well. Yeah, but it's a 135 dollar model that's insane with at least three casters, the two you listed plus at least one of the Nemos, which means that you can very easily build all three of your tournament lists around it. That might be another one of the differences that really makes Stormwall and Galleon stand out, it's easy to think of three or more casters that would love to take them. A lot of the other Gargossals want some very specific caster, like Archangel to PThag, Judicator to eFeora, and Kraken to a shelf in a sealed box with a price tag on it. ...revert the eSkarre faq, you PP bastards!
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Mar 14, 2013 16:51
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Nightwatcher posted:There are casters in Cygnar that don't benefit as much from the Stormwall. Yes it makes Darius playable and yes it is brutal with eHaley, but I would still rather run Rowdy with my eCaine and Stryker lists. The Cyclone and Defender still see a lot of use in my area when marshaled to ATGM as well. I think one heavy jack battlegroups are still very playable in Cygnar(if you're skimping on points), but yeah, if you're looking to multiple jacks, you might as well grab a Stormwall because the value's just that good.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:54
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I think the only Khador jack actually nerfed by Colossals was the Kodiak, and that was just because suddenly a huge number of enemy armies stopped taking expensive models which could previously be cheaply neutralyzed. Spriggan, Behemoth, Beast-09, Drago, Black Ivan, and the clams may not be taken as frequently as before, but colossals in general and Conquest in particular don't take their jobs. What's happened to a handful of jacks in Cygnar is unfortunate, but I still think Centurion, Rowdy, Thunderhead, Sentinel, Hunter, Thorn, Gallant, and maybe Minuteman and Avenger still have their respective places (meaning there's at least one build that would rather have them than anything else). Some of those are really specific (Minuteman just for Kraye, Gallant just for Blaize) but just like most in-faction Cygnar they excel in those niches. And just yesterday I saw some cool double-Stormclad dojo attempting to put the Rhulic Arcanist Corps to good use.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:01
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Rulebook Heavily posted:In almost every game I've run, my opponent will immediately try to tie down my MK with a lower-value unit. In almost every game, I've subsequently used said tie-down unit as fodder for Killshots to essentially deny my opponent a safe area within a 10" radius around the MK and then trampled out whenever I felt like it without really needing to worry or care about the damage I take from that. So the trick to playing the Mountain King is to only play against really accommodating players who will happily give the MK exactly what he needs.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:35
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Nightwatcher posted:There are casters in Cygnar that don't benefit as much from the Stormwall. Yes it makes Darius playable and yes it is brutal with eHaley, but I would still rather run Rowdy with my eCaine and Stryker lists. The Cyclone and Defender still see a lot of use in my area when marshaled to ATGM as well.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:40
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Conquest is fine and does its own thing. Khador has a somewhat unemployed warjack in the Destroyer though, as Black Ivan and the Behemoth sort of make it a bad choice. Behemoth on account of being better than two Destroyers strapped together and Black Ivan by being a better Destroyer in every way for just one point more. Ol' Rowdy is super legit for casters that keep their focus and to counter charge around with his ridiculous Mat 8 and crit knockdown. It's a good point that you can still put Defenders and Cyclones on Gun Mages though. I forgot about that for a minute.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:40
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Buddy of mine who plays with my WM collection said paint up 2x berserker, pbutcher, 10x man o war so I bought a second berserker. Turns out he meant juggernaut. That motherfucker is gonna feel some retribution for his mistake when I use these berserkers against him god damnit
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Mar 14, 2013 17:45
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Calico Noose posted:So the trick to playing the Mountain King is to only play against really accommodating players who will happily give the MK exactly what he needs. "Stupid scrub players, you kill the mountain king by investing a kill piece. No sir I feel using my Bane Thrall unit to kill something crappy, thus not being able to use them to do something effective, to be a worthwhile use of my activations." It's cognitive dissonance. If you ignore the mountain king, it kills you. If you kill it, you've reduced your overall hitting power in the effort. It'll lose to a Mammoth, but then again you're using your Mammoth to kill a lovely model instead of doing something useful. There's only so much you can do in a turn. The mountain king can force you to change your orders of activation, your assassination run, or even dump all your plans because you rolled poorly and now it can heal to full and kill your Deathjack or Molik Karn. Or our local Trollblood player's favourite: Two-hand throw your main killpiece at your caster The Mountain King is a big old knot in the overall synergy in a Trollblood force. He ties into stuff in a lot of ways and is best used to force difficult decisions. If you've had the poor luck of getting drawn into having to fight the mountain king on his terms, you're hosed.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:50
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Can the MK benefit from overtake from pMadraks feat?
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Mar 14, 2013 17:55
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Excelsiortothemax posted:Can the MK benefit from overtake from pMadraks feat? Colossals anf Gargantuans cannot move outside of their movement action, so I believe the answer is "no."
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Mar 14, 2013 17:59
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Gay Polymers posted:Colossals anf Gargantuans cannot move outside of their movement action, so I believe the answer is "no." This is correct. He can get the extra attacks from Crusher, just not the movement.
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Mar 14, 2013 18:34
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Calico Noose posted:So the trick to playing the Mountain King is to only play against really accommodating players who will happily give the MK exactly what he needs. And here's a rhetorical hole we can dig for every single model in the line. The point is, the counters I've seen people bring to the table so far is attempting to kill the MK quickly with one model like a Bronzeback (predictable) or trying to bog it down in a tarpit (exactly how I like it), and I more often see the latter because hey, he has Mat 5 right? Just put some Winter Guard on the job to neutralize 20 points and point the hitters at some other targets. That's advice I've seen people toss around plenty of times. Turns out he's a bit harder to counter than that in actual play when valuable targets within ten inches get sprayed twice at POW 16 thanks to the nice meaty fodder you just put on the bastard, and it's far easier said than done to just not be within ten inches of him. At worst I'll have to forego the initial spray to Sweep+Amuck myself a kill shot, and more often than not I end up making the points back over the course of a game. Tying him up with a high value, high defense solo is another thing I've had people try, but I can two-hand throw a spare whelp at distance 0 to automatically knock them down without real issue when that happens. And no, the MK can't benefit from any movement crap except direct movement buffs or speed buffs it can use on its own activation. That's a real frustration in a faction with game-defining stuff like Warpath, Goad, Overtake and so on available.
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Mar 14, 2013 18:39
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Rulebook Heavily posted:And here's a rhetorical hole we can dig for every single model in the line. Unless you happen to be playing against cryx, a skorne list with immortals, or any hordes faction with a witch doctor. Plus, even with amuck you are going to need a lot of luck to hit something like if kayazy. The best you can do at that point is try to hit things with you single spray you get that turn.
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Mar 14, 2013 18:50
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Khisanth Magus posted:Unless you happen to be playing against cryx, a skorne list with immortals, or any hordes faction with a witch doctor. Plus, even with amuck you are going to need a lot of luck to hit something like if kayazy. The best you can do at that point is try to hit things with you single spray you get that turn. Yes, it's not a tool for every game, list or situation. That means it hits the original Colossal design goal of not being a must-buy unit that everyone will always want all the time. The witch doctor is not so much a problem (I always want to get rid of solos like that anyway), but Cryx? Yeah, don't take it against Cryx. Even if the undead thing wasn't a factor, Pistol Wraiths will gently caress any colossal-size model over.
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Mar 14, 2013 18:57
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When you charge, do you get to use all your weapons of a either range or melee on your initial attack? Can you charge into a power attack?
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Mar 14, 2013 20:05
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When you charge you pick one of your initial melee attacks to be the charge attack. After that is resolved you get the rest of your initial melee attacks, and then can buy more melee attacks if you are able to buy attacks(warnouns, things with souls/heart tokens, etc).
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Mar 14, 2013 20:08
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Also you cannot charge into a power attack (ie, charge someone and then throw them) unless you have a special rule permitting you to do so (like a chain attack). So if you charge you are making regular attacks or star attacks on a melee weapon (so you can charge with, say, a Mangler and Thresher instead of attacking normally).
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Mar 14, 2013 20:14
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My LGS has started buying min boxes for older units along with the blisters necessary to fill them to max. They're repacking the boxes to full size, and charging box + blisters price, minus 15% or so to reflect the usual discount PP has been giving to the max unit repacks. Fukken love my LGS.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:23
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:02 |
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That is an awesome idea and I might suggest that to the owner of one of my FLGSs.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:30
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