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Just a reminder for those of you living in NC and the surrounding area: Brawler Bash VI is happening in April, from the 13th-14th, at Atomic Empire in Durham. It's a 2-day GT, and the first time that 40k is being held alongside the Fantasy part of the tournament. Also, the first time we're having a 2-day 40k event in NC. I think the only other one in the area is NoVA. I'm posting again, because the cost of registration increases from $35 to $45 after this Saturday. I will be playing in the Fantasy half of the event myself, so I don't know as much of the specifics on the event, but feel free to oogle this thread in their forums for more information. I'd also be more than happy to contact the TO myself if you have any questions you want to just post here. If you're interested in Fantasy, check out the thread for more info on the Fantasy side of the event!
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Mar 14, 2013 19:47
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Cataphract posted:what's the best way to run meganobs (squad size, loadout etc)? Is 5 a good number, should they all have combi-skorchas? I run them in squads of 4 with no more than 2 Kombi-Skorchas. 4 is 160pts, they are cheap but I would take a warboss with them for the Boss-pole. They make an excellent bodyguard unit for your Warboss. I have an MA-Boss and 4 Manz. 21 PK attacks on the charge. Nasty and it costs about 275pts. 375pts with the Battlewagon you have to give them. You can also have 3 in a Trukk. I would take this squad over Trukk-Boyz any day of the week. 155pts for a threatening unit that is rather quick.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:16
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We can all agree that the followers of tzeentch drop tabs and listen to Hendrix right?
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Mar 14, 2013 20:33
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If we are talking about music then we should all stop for a minute and listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozEb7g61hY Also have some updates pictures of the WIP Shadowstorm I posted a while back. (For those who have not seen them in the painting thread.)       
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Mar 14, 2013 20:34
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's one helluva tank Cataphract posted:I feel like blood angels really struggle in this edition. Assault marines don't really cut it, especially when they can't assault from rhinos and no one is really bringing massive vehicles to justify sneaky deep strike meltering shenanigans. The Stormraven has to start in reserve so, even though it is an assault vehicle, you're not going to be able to assault out if it till turn 3 at best (and then you expose it by hovering) add that to the points premium you pay for just about everything in the army, the general nerf to the assault phase (random charge and overwatch) and, to top it off, the meta has shifted towards high volume mid strength weaponry which is the perfect counter to the fancy dreadnoughts. Very few BA players have adjusted for 6th, even now. People are way too invested in their jumpers, kitted LC-TLPG razor squads, ravens with cargo or whatever worked in for them in 5th to realize that so many things are poo poo now. Priests are crap, dante is crap, assault marines are crap, terminators are rarely worth taking and the only good things in the troops section is DC and DC dreads (in the right list). Fast AV spam still works with allies. BA also do pod lists better than anyone else. Beyond that there's little that BA do better than other 3+ armies.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:40
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cat with hands posted:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It's too bad fast transports vehicles don't really matter anymore. Fast Vindicators are pretty awesome, and being able to actually move Predators that are out of position is neat. Otherwise it's probably best to just use IG blobs with a librarian and go to town. Also Stormravens are cool as gunships with minimum squad troops to jump out of the back of for late objective grabbing.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:55
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Cataphract posted:We can all agree that the followers of tzeentch drop tabs and listen to Hendrix right? Yes. Also, sitars.
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Mar 14, 2013 21:16
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Naramyth posted:It's too bad fast transports vehicles don't really matter anymore. Fast Vindicators are pretty awesome, and being able to actually move Predators that are out of position is neat. Otherwise it's probably best to just use IG blobs with a librarian and go to town. Also Stormravens are cool as gunships with minimum squad troops to jump out of the back of for late objective grabbing. Being able to redeploy 24" isn't useless, neither is the fast heavy weapon. But they aren't as good as they used to be, that's for sure. I don't think IG blobs are a good pick for allies since using BA mobility to achieve local superiority and play games with the objective placement is far more important than just sitting on them all game trying not to die. Unless you really want the vendettas (which is reason enough to go with IG) DA, GK or SW make for better allies as they all have good troops and HQs which is what BA lacks.
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Mar 14, 2013 21:32
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Cataphract posted:We can all agree that the followers of tzeentch drop tabs and listen to Hendrix right? The Nurgle guys probably just listen to stuff like this all day long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdeqvhxu7iI
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Mar 14, 2013 21:48
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Cataphract posted:We can all agree that the followers of tzeentch drop tabs and listen to Hendrix right? Tzeentch cultists listen to prog poo poo like Dream Theatre and Rush.
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Mar 14, 2013 21:56
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AgentF posted:Tzeentch cultists listen to prog poo poo like Dream Theatre and Rush. Damnit, I was going to say something along those lines. Tzeentch dudes are totally prog fans, but those bands are too mainstream. We need to go crazier.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:11
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Safety Factor posted:Damnit, I was going to say something along those lines. Tzeentch dudes are totally prog fans, but those bands are too mainstream. We need to go crazier. Thousand Sons are all about deep 70s prog rock like ELP and Gentle Giant. The most mainstream they'll get is Yes, but you better not bring up "Owner of a Lonely Heart".
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Mar 14, 2013 22:23
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Safety Factor posted:Damnit, I was going to say something along those lines. Tzeentch dudes are totally prog fans, but those bands are too mainstream. We need to go crazier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5I01D05ak0. This....isss.....ccrrrraaaaaaazzzieeeerrrrr
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Mar 14, 2013 22:37
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Raphus C posted:I run them in squads of 4 with no more than 2 Kombi-Skorchas. 4 is 160pts, they are cheap but I would take a warboss with them for the Boss-pole. They make an excellent bodyguard unit for your Warboss. I have an MA-Boss and 4 Manz. 21 PK attacks on the charge. Nasty and it costs about 275pts. 375pts with the Battlewagon you have to give them. I thought you could fit 6 in a trukk... did that change? Yeah, slow and purposeful kind of makes kombi-skorchas not that great... It's worth taking one or two so you don't get bogged down, but I actually like the twin-shoota.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:45
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PeterWeller posted:Thousand Sons are all about deep 70s prog rock like ELP and Gentle Giant. The most mainstream they'll get is Yes, but you better not bring up "Owner of a Lonely Heart". I'd lean towards some later Sun-Ra where he made even less sense than when he started.
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Mar 14, 2013 23:05
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Lord Thrust posted:I'll give a little on the music type. I'll see your Thrill Kill Kult and raise you some Genitorturers. Gimp masks, ball gags and various techno-cock-and-ball torture devices are certainly in keeping with both. I'm trying to develop a mental picture of a noise marine unit that takes it up a notch. I've been wrong about this all along. This is, almost certainly, what Noise Marines would be blazing. It's a little bit of everything everybody who participated in this conversation submitted. I offer to you Rings of Saturn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPe9OD9a0Qs
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Mar 14, 2013 23:20
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There's something very 40k about camo netting on a tank the size of an office block. Awesome job.
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Mar 14, 2013 23:44
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LordAba posted:I thought you could fit 6 in a trukk... did that change? I wouldn't put 6 MANZ in a Trukk. Too big a target and too easy to crush. MANZ are very good at bullying infantry (without powerfists/AP2 weapons). With no invuln, Waaagh banner and no bosspole, I would not spend too much on them. Although, I want to put 9 in a Battlewagon with Mad doc Grotznik. Invulnerable saves all around, fearless, FnP. That Wagon would be shot sooo hard, or lead around by a speeder.
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Mar 15, 2013 00:17
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Mar 15, 2013 00:40
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cat with hands posted:Being able to redeploy 24" isn't useless, neither is the fast heavy weapon. But they aren't as good as they used to be, that's for sure. didn't scout get nerfed to 12"
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Mar 15, 2013 01:29
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Cataphract posted:didn't scout get nerfed to 12" I meant on turn one. Only Baals have scout. How indeed?
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Mar 15, 2013 02:23
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With the changes to Psychic stuff, are BA Librarian-dreads any more useful? I didn't notice anything besides a few biomancy options that seemed more handy to a dread than your basic librarian. I've got all these dreads sitting around unassembled, I'd like to think I can still get a good run out of some without going solely riflemen configs. edit: VVV Really? I figured they'd still count as having psychic mastery and could swap but I'm not versed in 6th yet. What's the consensus on the frag cannon? thiswayliesmadness fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 05:33
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Blood Angels aren't as bad as they're made out to be in a lot of cases, but several of the 6E rules changes drastically altered the type of armies that you can run, so most of the 5E BA lists were essentially invalidated. FNP is still really good and about as useful as before (it works less often, but you get to use it more often.) FC took a hit, but the added charge range benefits them a lot as a mainly-melee army. The changes to Fast vehicles help them a lot, but being unable to assault from Rhinos makes those essentially useless to them, since the earliest you can reasonably expect to assault from them would be turn 3 (move + flat out T1, disembark T2, goforit T3.) BA have plenty of good units and tricks and everything in 6th, they just lack any kind of cohesive plan to win. Death Company, Stormravens, Predators (Baal or otherwise), etc, are all really good units, but when it comes to the point of actually pulling everything together and building an army, nothing quite seems to fit. They're a very handy ally, but as a primary list they either end up being very gimmicky (max Land Raiders, AV13 spam, all jumpers, double Stormraven) or rather underwhelming. Edit: I don't think Furioso Librarians are allowed to swap their powers out. I could be wrong, though. Rifleman is basically the only good shooting configuration, but regular Furioso/Death Company Dreads are very solid units. AbusePuppy fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 05:38
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Do most Tyranid players run lots of Gargoyles? I was reading over the Tyranid codex and it seems to me that they are really under priced. For 180 points you get 30 jump infantry that can shoot decent guns then assault and hit at int 4, which is either at the same time or before most things. They also have pretty reasonable upgrades in poison and furious charge. The flying bases also seem to be a little larger than the standard bases, which means you can spread them out more so they are not so vulnerable to templates. Every time people bring up Tyranids it seems like all that gets mentioned are the MCs, but these seem way more point efficient than the MCs. Am I missing something? I will admit I have only played against 1 nids player and he ran a very unorthodox list so I know very little about what people actually run when playing. Maybe people run these guys all the time and I just don't hear about it?
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Mar 15, 2013 06:59
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Do most Tyranid players run lots of Gargoyles? I was reading over the Tyranid codex and it seems to me that they are really under priced. For 180 points you get 30 jump infantry that can shoot decent guns then assault and hit at int 4, which is either at the same time or before most things. They also have pretty reasonable upgrades in poison and furious charge. The flying bases also seem to be a little larger than the standard bases, which means you can spread them out more so they are not so vulnerable to templates. The main reason MCs are so key is that that's where our best psykers tend to be, as well as tervigons (no list is even light years from competitive without them, and with biomancy they're tough as nails unless you roll like poo poo) and our swarm lord, flying hive tyrants and a whole host of other possible army staples are all MCs and usually psykers. Without MCs, most of them rocking biomancy, your synapse dies in a heartbeat and your whole army of leadership 6-7 small guys suddenly go instinctive and you might as well go get a drink because its not like you can actually choose what they do. In 5th it wasn't quite so rigidly defined but in 6th some MCs are the brain and heart of a competitive army. Every non MC synapse creature is T4 that I can think of, so even 3W warriors are one one S8 shot away from leaving half the field synapse-less. Edit: I don't even bother writing lists anymore unless they include both my tervigon models, unless its non competitive beerhammer type stuff. mmj fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 07:11
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mmj posted:The main reason MCs are so key is that that's where our best psykers tend to be, as well as tervigons (no list is even light years from competitive without them, and with biomancy they're tough as nails unless you roll like poo poo) and our swarm lord, flying hive tyrants and a whole host of other possible army staples are all MCs and usually psykers. Without MCs, most of them rocking biomancy, your synapse dies in a heartbeat and your whole army of leadership 6-7 small guys suddenly go instinctive and you might as well go get a drink because its not like you can actually choose what they do. In 5th it wasn't quite so rigidly defined but in 6th some MCs are the brain and heart of a competitive army. Every non MC synapse creature is T4 that I can think of, so even 3W warriors are one one S8 shot away from leaving half the field synapse-less. Also, most of the tyranid monsters are characters, meaning they can challenge out powerfists and smash harder characters. Increases their survivability in combat sooo much.
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Mar 15, 2013 07:43
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LordAba posted:Also, most of the tyranid monsters are characters, meaning they can challenge out powerfists and smash harder characters. Increases their survivability in combat sooo much. Also this. Unrelated, I have a question about Doom of Malantai. The FLGS I go to says that a doom hurting someone with leech life gets 2 wounds, one for leech life and one for leech essence. I don't mind this as a bug player but it feels cheap sometimes. Is that the right way to do it or is it capped at one wound per wound inflicted? Also, if a multiple wound model at toughness 3 is instant death'd, does life leech get one wound or all the remaining wounds? This has been at the back of my mind for a while
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Mar 15, 2013 07:48
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So do people run Gargoyles or not? None of the units you mentioned are fast attack I don't think. Have you personally run a lot of lists that aren't mostly MCs in 6th edition? I often find statements like "no list is even light years from competitive without them" are almost always gross exaggerations.
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Mar 15, 2013 08:03
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So do people run Gargoyles or not? None of the units you mentioned are fast attack I don't think. Have you personally run a lot of lists that aren't mostly MCs in 6th edition? I often find statements like "no list is even light years from competitive without them" are almost always gross exaggerations. I have never run gargoyles, but that is entirely because I don't have e real life cash to pony up for a decent size squad. From what I hear they do great as a front screen to give you cover on the rest of your army and if they get close enough they can also be a real pain in the rear end. Based on rumor alone I would actually want to do it myself if someone was able to lend me a squad. To bad no else at the store besides a small kid just starting play bugs and running counts-as units kinda defeats the purpose of testing them out. Maybe one day I'll buy a few models and try to work out a counts for a full squad. On the subject of force org charting, the only thing I ever use for FA besides the theoretical gargoyles is ocassionally a minimum squad of LW/BS shrikes to hit soft targets the turn after deep striking but that's an expensive, hit or miss tactic. I can't imagine tyranid running out of FA slots barring a new codex or white dwarf units being released. completely forgot about that because they don't tend to be necessary in the meta game where I am, I know people have used them in the past as zone denial during force placement to great effect \/\/\/\/ mmj fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 08:24
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Fast attack gives you spore mine clusters. These are great fun, and dirt cheap. I wouldn't rely on them, but as a cheap and easy 'gently caress you' before deployment...
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Mar 15, 2013 09:48
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So do people run Gargoyles or not? None of the units you mentioned are fast attack I don't think. Have you personally run a lot of lists that aren't mostly MCs in 6th edition? I often find statements like "no list is even light years from competitive without them" are almost always gross exaggerations. They do get run fairly often, but only as a cheap source of cover for the rest of the army. Gargoyles are fine but you are vastly overestimating them. They're not much more than a flying Termagant and thus not particularly good at killing stuff. There's really no point in paying 240 points for 30 upgraded Gargoyles when a fully pimped Tervigon costs 210 points and it's anywhere from 20-30 upgraded Termagants in addition to a huge fuckoff scoring MC with three rolls in Biomancy. e: fixed wrong costs. Ojetor fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 09:50
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JesusIsTehCool posted:So do people run Gargoyles or not? None of the units you mentioned are fast attack I don't think. Have you personally run a lot of lists that aren't mostly MCs in 6th edition? I often find statements like "no list is even light years from competitive without them" are almost always gross exaggerations. Gargoyles are pretty common for two purposes: 1) They form a huge, very mobile screen that you can reinforce with FNP from Catalyst/Endurance, and from cover saves from terrain or a Venomthrope. This makes them quite hard to shift quickly, and even if your opponent can they're expending huge effort to clear a ~160pt unit. If they're not cleared away the brood can cover a large swathe of the board and cover valuable MC's as they advance. 2) 6th Edition now makes them a significant threat to vehicles, especially transports. Not only can you lay down a huge number of S4 attacks to glance rear armour 10, but the brood is typically big enough to completely surround a transport. If a transport is wrecked and all the exit points are blocked, the occupants can't disembark and are destroyed. Also they're cheap as gently caress and only use an FA slot, which are basically free otherwise.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:03
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Ojetor posted:They do get run fairly often, but only as a cheap source of cover for the rest of the army. Gargoyles are fine but you are vastly overestimating them. They're not much more than a flying Termagant and thus not particularly good at killing stuff. There's really no point in paying 240 points for 30 upgraded Gargoyles when a fully pimped Tervigon costs 210 points and it's anywhere from 20-30 upgraded Termagants in addition to a huge fuckoff scoring MC with three rolls in Biomancy. I think they are actually a lot better than Termagants. They cost one point more and they get to become jump infantry, auto wound on hits of 6 in close combat, and have the option to gain Hammer of Wrath on charges. One of the main issues I have with termagants is that it can take them two turns to get into shooting and charge range. That is a whole round where most of your opponents are shooting at you and you get to do nothing. I would not upgrade them for the most part, I would keep them cheap and run 3 groups of them with as many as I could afford. It also isn't really an either or situation when it comes to bringing MCs. Even if you ran 90 of these guys that is 540 points, which in most games still leaves plenty of room for tervigons, hive guard, and hive tyrants. From a Dark Angel players perspective if I see an army with 90 gargoyles and 2 Tervigons I am not worrying about how I am going to deal with the Tervigons, but how in the hell I am going to kill enough of those gargoyles turn one to prevent them from overwhelming me in cc turn two. I think MMJ might have hit the head on the nail as to why no one runs a list with 60+ gargoyles, it requires you to actually have 60+ gargoyles which is pretty costly and a lot of work, double so if you just finished buying and building the termagants to run Tervigons.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:46
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JesusIsTehCool posted:I think they are actually a lot better than Termagants. They cost one point more and they get to become jump infantry, auto wound on hits of 6 in close combat, and have the option to gain Hammer of Wrath on charges. One of the main issues I have with termagants is that it can take them two turns to get into shooting and charge range. That is a whole round where most of your opponents are shooting at you and you get to do nothing. I would not upgrade them for the most part, I would keep them cheap and run 3 groups of them with as many as I could afford. Also remember that if you can wound it you can't disengage it. That blinding spit or w/e is actually a liability on some fights. On the other hand, with jump infantry you generally choose your melee opponents so that point doesn't hold much water Also you don't get a troop choice tervigon per squad. In low point games it might matter but I think around 1250 they become a cost effective cover for large swaths of an army without limiting other choices as much. Keep in mind this is all theory from me until I have a chance to run them but certain advantages and disadvantages seem to be built in mmj fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 10:50
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xtothez posted:2) 6th Edition now makes them a significant threat to vehicles, especially transports. Not only can you lay down a huge number of S4 attacks to glance rear armour 10, but the brood is typically big enough to completely surround a transport. If a transport is wrecked and all the exit points are blocked, the occupants can't disembark and are destroyed. Don't you get six inches to disembark into, and if you have to move through enemies its an emergency disembark which is a dangerous terrain test or something and not an auto-destroy for the unit?
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Mar 15, 2013 11:06
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Looking to do some Eldar as allies and thinking of an Autarch with a Reaper Launcher and a squad of Pathfinders. I'll have the Autarch converted so he looks like a dude with an even bigger sniper rifle. Any suggestions for the base model for the Autarch? I'm thinking a Dire Avenger Exarch but there don't seem to be many plastic options. Otherwise, I might get a Farseer instead and convert up a Wraithlord kneeling with a single weapon as I totally love the wraithlords themed as other units.  
Karandras fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 11:09
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Carcer posted:Don't you get six inches to disembark into, and if you have to move through enemies its an emergency disembark which is a dangerous terrain test or something and not an auto-destroy for the unit? When a unit emergency disembarks, it has to first be placed in contact with the vehicles hull then can move 6". If you can't place it in contact with the vehicle, it's toast.
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Mar 15, 2013 11:27
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AbusePuppy posted:Edit: I don't think Furioso Librarians are allowed to swap their powers out. I could be wrong, though. Rifleman is basically the only good shooting configuration, but regular Furioso/Death Company Dreads are very solid units. Furioso librarians are allowed to switched out their powers unless you take the extremely grognardly approach that they aren't librarians... which is what some people argue. They are not very good though except for the very situational S7 AP2 force axe striking at initiative. Furioso librarians close combat potential is less than the furioso or DC dread while costing more and no longer providing the 24" hood bubble. The slow rifleman dreads are suboptimal in BA thanks to fast predators and 6th ed not being quite as transport heavy, frag cannon dreads (in pods) are what it's all about and one of the main reasons to keep BA your main detachment. They are the best thing in the elites slots now and every good 6th BA list can probably benefit from a couple. I usually take all three because they punish your opponent for castling. Which brings us to winning with BA... AbusePuppy posted:BA have plenty of good units and tricks and everything in 6th, they just lack any kind of cohesive plan to win. BA can do the whole 'divide and conquer' thing pretty well, but they can't out assault, out shoot or out score other lists reliably. You have to hit the enemy hard, one piece at the time until he is crippled. Camping objectives is not for BA. If you use rule book missions with the standard rules for terrain placement and objective placement BA are actually quite good because it allows the BA player to influence the board and help him pick his fights. Obviously you will suffer in a tournament setting with different mission types, set objectives and terrain. Since a good BA list is mobile and aggressive, you don't have to worry too much about your own table half. You can concentrate on making the other half of the board as bad as possible for your opponent. Divide his deployment with terrain pieces and make it difficult for him to move and draw LoS. When it comes to objective placement don't worry about home objectives, I rarely even set up a home objective outside of 'big guns' where I tend to put one out of LoS for a late game grab by my predators since they are scooting around the backfield anyway. Instead use the placement to block your opponents good spots and use the rest as bait or put them out in the open where it's going to very dangerous to hold them. At the end of the game you should either be standing on his home objectives or contesting them, going for late grabs of the ones in the open if possible.
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Mar 15, 2013 11:28
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cat with hands posted:That's a player issue and not a codex issue. (The reason you would still want Riflemen is for potential anti-flyer, although generally the Stormraven fills that roll pretty effectively.) mmj posted:Unrelated, I have a question about Doom of Malantai. The FLGS I go to says that a doom hurting someone with leech life gets 2 wounds, one for leech life and one for leech essence. I don't mind this as a bug player but it feels cheap sometimes. Is that the right way to do it or is it capped at one wound per wound inflicted? Also, if a multiple wound model at toughness 3 is instant death'd, does life leech get one wound or all the remaining wounds? This has been at the back of my mind for a while I believe Leech on a T3 or worse target would get you multiple wounds back for IDing something, but since it caps at your natural limit I don't see that being something that would come up often. Really, rolling on the Biomancy table is a bit of a waste for the Doom anyways, since Psychic Shriek is so much better for him (the hilarity of rolling Iron Arm aside.) mmj posted:Also remember that if you can wound it you can't disengage it. That blinding spit or w/e is actually a liability on some fights. Gargoyles are a strong option for any Tyranid army that wants to play aggressively, since they can threaten a turn 2 charges pretty much every time and tie up enemy units while the main body of the swarm gets into range. They're also a really nice kit to assemble as long as you follow the instructions (since individual bodies are matched with wing pairs), although moving and transporting them is a bit of a pain. I ended up magnetizing the bases on mine, since they are pretty obnoxious otherwise.
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Mar 15, 2013 11:51
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Cataphract posted:Just what necrons need... more flyers Its coming from inside the frakking ship!
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Mar 15, 2013 11:55
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