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Shogun 2 has more meat to it imo, and the combat is a bit more interesting. FoTS is great and improves the vanilla campaign in almost every way, except for the fact that artillery is unbelievably powerful and dominates the game entirely. Ship combat sucks in both incarnations so that doesn't really matter. I had more fun with FoTS because I like firearm-battles more, and I dislikes the food-mechanics of the vanilla game. Both are excellent though. Long story short: yeah, buy whatever battle type interests you more. The big thing in FoTS, the powerful artillery, is mostly player-side, as the AI sucks with them, so if you want to you can just add a mod with less powerful artillery to make the game a bit harder.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:53
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There is a mod that literally improves the Artillery for FOTS in almost every way in the Shogun 2 Steamworks section. Get them both.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:59
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Eau de MacGowan posted:I inadvertently now have a PC that can play the new Shogun games. Which one of Shogun 2 or Fall of the Samurai should I get, is either of them quantifiably better or is it more a case of whether you prefer longbows or 19th century guns? If you do decide to get both (like you said, matter of preference) shogun 2 gold just came out and might save you a few bucks. I don't think it includes the rise of the samurai campaign but you can probably wait to see if you'll like that once you try the shogun 2 campaign. Shalcar also has a great lp of rise if you want to get a feel for it.
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Mar 11, 2013 16:15
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Thanks for the advice all, I guess I'll go with the original Shogun 2 for starters, more interested in the old warlords than the shinsengumi and perry and tom cruise.
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Mar 11, 2013 16:21
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Last Samurai happened after the Boshin War, that was one of the Satsuma Rebellions.
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Mar 11, 2013 16:24
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SeanBeansShako posted:Last Samurai happened after the Boshin War, that was one of the Satsuma Rebellions. Oh come on it's basically the same  I'm pretty sure Gold comes with all three campaigns though, and they're all great.
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Mar 11, 2013 18:36
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Koramei posted:Oh come on it's basically the same Nope. Like saying the American Revolution and the American Civil War was the same thing. Satsuma Rebellion was when one of the bigger factions that won the Boshin War flipped their poo poo when the established Imperialist government decided to take away ~Samurai Rights~ and they well Rebelled and fought for independence. Boshin War was a major culture and civil war with International Powers supporting both possible governments with modernists and traditionalists fighting on a much bigger scale*. Looks the same but the Rebellions were pretty much small scale Rebellions. *Not as big as your average FOTS campaign, but in TW terms the Rebellion is literally two battles on the campaign map rather than a campaign. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 18:48
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FotS is a lot of fun, if you know what you're doing. As a TW game it's pretty broken: all the units are glass cannons, and the AI just can't use them effectively. You should play the vanilla Shogun 2 first, get FotS if you feel like a victory lap.
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Mar 12, 2013 02:49
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Just bought empire total war cause america gently caress yeah. Also is fire and advance ever worth using in napoleon? I'm honestly not too sure how it works if it kicks off at all. If it does kick off its first rank fires then like ninjas through the lines/repeat. I also noticed when I had 3 regiments set to fire and advance they did it as an entire group. One regiment covered the other that moved up, the other moved up then charged which seems like a fluke. tl;dr am I retard is this gimmick worth doing or can I stick to my usual "put like 4-8 line infantry to draw in the AI and then flank with light infantry/cavalry/whatever is there and bulldoze the side with musket fire. Oh and is there an IRC channel or something where I can get in totalwar games with goons by chance?
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Mar 14, 2013 09:32
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Tommofork posted:Not hating on the tactics, hating on the game for its lack of viable/interesting tactics. Bactrian javelin troops were fantastic, because they threw armour-piercing spears that were equivalent to a Roman pilum. I once managed to hold a city against a full stack Seleuicid army using a single garrisoned unit of Bactrian javelins; they had no siege weaponry, just elephants to break down my gate, and within two volleys of javelins the elephants routed. 
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Mar 14, 2013 10:00
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Man I forgot the ridiculous fun the Total War games could be. Finally got my Shogun 2 game started, accidentally ran my inexperienced Daimyo into a bigger army and managed to use the trees to wipe his men out and kill one of his two Generals. Only TWO enemy soldiers escaped (one the other General) and they promptly rode directly into my proper army. I decided to load up the battle and just sent my entire army at the two enemy soldiers on the field. Their reaction? The General pulled out his sword, let out a warcry and charged directly into my army to go down fighting 
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Mar 14, 2013 11:06
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The Total War games are 75% off on GameFly this weekend!
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Mar 15, 2013 19:36
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brozozo posted:The Total War games are 75% off on GameFly this weekend! Just came by to post this. And if you use the coupon code GFDMAR20 you can get 20% off the discounted price, although the coupon expires today. Just picked up Fall of the Samurai for $5.99. Not bad.
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Mar 15, 2013 20:57
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Okay, let's see. I've won three times as much with my FOTS avatar than with my vanilla Shogun one. I think that's mostly because I've been taught which units are worth it, and which aren't. (To be more precise, I've been told Shogitai, Yari Ki, Revolver Cav, White/Black Bears, Royal Marines, Tosa Riflemen, Vermillion Bird Force and Kotetsu Ironclads were all great, cost-efficient units). Since all of those units have performed amazingly in comparison to their counterparts, I wonder if there are any up-to-date resources with this kind of info for vanilla Shogun 2? I have the feeling I'd lose less if I knew what to take, what not to take, how much to take, and what to improve once they are vets. I know Yari Samurai are pointless, at least. At this point, I've got two vets of every single non-attendant/yari unit (well, I got two yari ashigaru vets with +1 morale, but hey). I've also got all the dlc. ( )Any tips would be appreciated. While we are at it - am I missing something here? The Armstrong gun is 90 koku more expensive than the Parrot, but I get 25 extra base reload skill and like 5 extra accuracy.
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Mar 16, 2013 06:30
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It's a breechloader and therefore inherently better, I think.
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Mar 16, 2013 07:02
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On Shogun 2 unit balance: Yari Samurai are really good supporting units: good at taking objectives and flanking manoeuvres with rapid advance, and are pretty efficient frontline units if you upgrade them with 2 attack/4 defense. Naginata Samurai are even more durable, but need the 2 attack/4 defense upgrades to be really effective. Monks are always a good choice (with 2 attack, 2 attack + 2 defense, or upgrading all the way up to banzai) since you can always buff them with the +2 monk attack retainer. Yari ashigaru are good if you put them at level 9 with hold firm. The most cost efficient non-DLC infantry unit for anti-infantry purposes is definitely No-dachi Samurai (with 2 or 4 attack upgrades), since they have the highest base attack and you can use banzai to get an extra 40 seconds of fighting out of them before they rout. All of the full-strength cavalry is good if you stick to mostly attack upgrades (and never charge upgrades). Light cav and monk cav only get +2 per defense upgrade, every other cav gets +3. Matchlocks are worth taking vanilla or with extended range, bows not worth taking at all unless they're mounted. The most efficient units are DLC units: Bulletproof Samurai, Long Yari Ashigaru, Daikyu Samurai, Wako Raiders, Mounted Gunners, Donderbusses. So uh, make sure to not put bad upgrades on those since they can't be undone.
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Mar 16, 2013 07:12
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That sure is a helpful post. Thanks a lot!Llamadeus posted:Matchlocks are worth taking vanilla or with extended range, bows not worth taking at all unless they're mounted. Huh. I've got 2 Warrior Bow Monks, 2 Bow Samurai and 2 Foot Samurai vet units. None of those are worth it at all? Llamadeus posted:The most efficient units are DLC units: Bulletproof Samurai, Long Yari Ashigaru, Daikyu Samurai, Wako Raiders, Mounted Gunners, Donderbusses. So uh, make sure to not put bad upgrades on those since they can't be undone. Please define bad upgrade (besides charge). 
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Mar 16, 2013 07:51
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Azran posted:This sure is a helpful post. Thanks! And generally the best upgrades are attack, defense and hold firm/banzai/inspire. Armor and morale are okay. Missile damage, charge, speed and fatigue resistance are usually not so effective.
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Mar 16, 2013 08:07
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Okay, yes. I made a bunch of slips somewhere (like, Tercios with ranged damage  , speed on Mounted Gunners and Bulletproof Samurai) but I guess I'm on the right track. What should the composition of my "main" line be, by the way? Katanas or naginatas?
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Mar 16, 2013 09:51
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I'm about 4 years into my first proper campaign in Shogun 2, getting used to the changes from the last Total War game I played properly (Medieval 2). I'm doing fine so far battle wise and I've taken three nearby provinces and been congratulated/warned that the Imperial Palace is starting to take note of my progress. I'm a little confused about the best way to go about things in terms of economy/city/trade management - should I be concentrating on building strong armies to protect my cities before I begin building them up or should I be upgrading, building up trade routes, sending out agents to make diplomatic ties? I tend to prefer to secure the areas I already have and slowly work my way out, but I'm concerned about being left behind by the other clans building up doom stacks and steamrolling me 80 turns down the line or something.
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Mar 16, 2013 09:59
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Azran posted:Okay, yes. I made a bunch of slips somewhere (like, Tercios with ranged damage  ).
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Mar 16, 2013 11:08
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Jerusalem posted:I'm about 4 years into my first proper campaign in Shogun 2, getting used to the changes from the last Total War game I played properly (Medieval 2). I'm doing fine so far battle wise and I've taken three nearby provinces and been congratulated/warned that the Imperial Palace is starting to take note of my progress. I'm a little confused about the best way to go about things in terms of economy/city/trade management - should I be concentrating on building strong armies to protect my cities before I begin building them up or should I be upgrading, building up trade routes, sending out agents to make diplomatic ties? I tend to prefer to secure the areas I already have and slowly work my way out, but I'm concerned about being left behind by the other clans building up doom stacks and steamrolling me 80 turns down the line or something. Take it slow. Don't invest heavily in armies at the start but get your economy rolling. Diplomacy actually kinda works in these game, so don't be afraid of sudden betrayals. That bar that keeps track of your influence/notoriety? Once it fills up everyone declares war on you. The bar fills up when you take over provinces. Armies are pretty expensive so build em later. If you focus on building troops in the mid game you can have a full stack in a couple of turns anyway.
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Mar 16, 2013 11:30
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Also when Samopsa says everybody declares war on you: everybody declares war on you. How much they like you just determines how long before it happens. While it's theoretically possible to keep a maxed out ally from declaring war on you through min/maxing diplomacy bonuses, they'll still hate your guts. The system was basically designed to make you lose on your first couple attempts.
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Mar 16, 2013 11:44
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Alternatively: go download one of the million mods that fix Realm Divide so it's no longer pants-on-head retarded by making it so your the diplomacy hit is a big initial then diminishes, rather than a medium initial that increases. This means your lifelong allies will stay your allies and likely join you in your war to get to the capital, rather than turn against you for no reason.
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Mar 16, 2013 12:48
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Azran posted:What should the composition of my "main" line be, by the way? Katanas or naginatas? I'd say main line katanas with a few yari ashigaru/long yari to protect the back and flanks with guard mode spear wall (if there are enemy cav left otherwise just use them as a meatshield to tire out the enemy melee) and a few no dachi sprinkled in to make the first charge. It's good to hold a few melee in reserve because your units might blob up and not do anything anyways. I'd also throw fire cav and portuguese tercos on the list of useful dlc units. Bringing fire cavalry is a good great guard substitute that doesn't need a retainer to use and portuguese tercos are the best matchlock unit you can get.
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Mar 16, 2013 18:06
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Alternatively: go download one of the million mods that fix Realm Divide so it's no longer pants-on-head retarded by making it so your the diplomacy hit is a big initial then diminishes, rather than a medium initial that increases. This means your lifelong allies will stay your allies and likely join you in your war to get to the capital, rather than turn against you for no reason. Can you still get achievements if your campaign is modded? Llamadeus posted:I think speed is generally taken on Mounted Gunners since all you do with those is run away and shoot people. You can run both sword and naginata cores with success, but swords are helped a lot if you happen to have the Blade Master retainer (random drop Oh yes, I got that retainer. Naginatas count as spear-armed units, right?
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Mar 16, 2013 19:18
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Naginatas are basically as effective as spear units in terms of anti-cavalry fighting but any retainers that mention spears only effect yaris and not naginatas.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:25
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After playing around a little on the FOTS campaign map, it seems it doesn't look as good as vanilla Shogun 2. Sorta looks blurry or fuzzy despite no change in my video settings.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:42
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brozozo posted:After playing around a little on the FOTS campaign map, it seems it doesn't look as good as vanilla Shogun 2. Sorta looks blurry or fuzzy despite no change in my video settings. I can't explain it looking graphically worse, but it's much more realistic with drabber colours and lower mountains and so on. The vanilla campaign map is extremely stylized.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:47
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Some new Rome info and screenshots in this pcgamer preview: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/total-war-rome-2-preview-ambush-and-betrayal-in-the-ancient-world-rts/ Every faction has 3 dynasties you can pick from and a "substantially expanded" loyalty system that will eventually lead to massive civil wars. They also talk about changing realm divide and how everyone will react to you if you get too strong but it happens more gradually. And the way they described it when an ally plans to betray you they won't just come out and say it but wait till they can ambush you and get the upper hand. If they can pull all this off it seems like a huge step up from any other total war campaign.   There's civilians watching in that second one. Wonder if we'll have them trying to flee during sieges or they went through all the effort just for some screenshots.
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Mar 16, 2013 21:15
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Maybe they'll have a 'view city in peacetime' option again and those models will be used for it.
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Mar 16, 2013 21:26
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I'm excited for battles with actual objectives, part of the fun in Shogun 2 multiplayer was trying to grab those bonuses and fighting over them and it always felt odd that anything like that was lacking in the singleplayer. I'm worried about the field of view thing, the AI has never been smart and I don't know if it will really ever pull off ambushes very well. Half the time your own ambushes on the battlemap don't even really work because the AI just marches onto you regardless and the trees are rarely in that useful position.
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Mar 16, 2013 21:52
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Thanks for the advice re: Shogun 2, I'll work on shoring up my current position and building up my cities/expanding trade and diplomatic relations for awhile before pumping up my armies and expanding. The Rome 2 stuff sounds great, though it always pays to take this stuff with a grain of salt. I just hope these "ambushes" don't take the form of 60 dudes jumping me in the Senate 
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Mar 17, 2013 01:33
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I am not too excited at the prospect of another realm divide, even if it happens at a slower pace.
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Mar 17, 2013 01:44
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I enjoyed Shogun 2 so much I just bought Napoleon from the current Gamefly sale. Anything super-critical I should know as a relative newbie?
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Mar 17, 2013 02:40
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I enjoyed Shogun 2 so much I just bought Napoleon from the current Gamefly sale. Anything super-critical I should know as a relative newbie? Main thing that comes to mind is that line of sight can be critically important - if there's a fold in the ground blocking your line infantry, they won't shoot until the enemy reaches the fold. Be very careful about unit positioning. Also, artillery is king.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:44
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I enjoyed Shogun 2 so much I just bought Napoleon from the current Gamefly sale. Anything super-critical I should know as a relative newbie? If you played Shogun 2 then you should do okay. Just be aware that you are definitely on a deadline in the Italian and Egyptian campaigns - especially in the Italian one you can't gently caress around at all or you won't be able to reach your objectives in time.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:50
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Samopsa posted:Take it slow. Don't invest heavily in armies at the start but get your economy rolling. Diplomacy actually kinda works in these game, so don't be afraid of sudden betrayals. That bar that keeps track of your influence/notoriety? Once it fills up everyone declares war on you. The bar fills up when you take over provinces. I get that you eventually progress to pretty much having all-samurai armies but if I win a decisive victory against another clan's big army and then as I march further in another doomstack of samurai show up it really takes the steam out of expansion. Maybe I was a bit dumb in my first campaign but I never really built up the sword dojo line even as Shimazu because I really didn't feel like spending all that koku for that step between having katana samurai and having some veterancy bonuses. Also a few posts even higher, are no-daichi that good? No armour, so aren't you supposed to flank with them? Sure, I guess you can banzai at the start of lines clashing but it really feels like throwing away a unit for the sake of it. Also recently learned Yari Samurai have bonuses and abilities to marching so maybe I'll give them another try rather than immediately replacing them with nagi samurai.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:56
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Was I just unlucky or is the naval combat kinda screwy in Shogun 2? I was forced into a wildly unbalanced fight with an enemy fleet and I somehow managed to rout 3/4s of the enemy. I slowly whittled down the remaining forces but the battle wouldn't end, so I ended up scouring every inch of the oceans till I found routed enemies tucked away in the corners of the battle map listed as not in combat (but the battle momentum meter was clearly taking them into account and putting me at a severe disadvantage). I slowly attacked each one, but because they were placed half in and half out of the battle map it was difficult to get my bow ships to actually open fire, while the enemy ship seemed free to attack me. In the end there was ONE enemy ship left and my final ship decided to rout, at which point I suffered a "close defeat" and all the ships I would have otherwise captured went back to the enemy. The next couple of battles I managed to wipe them out, but it was kinda annoying to go from what should have been a heroic victory to a close defeat through what I felt was no fault of my own.
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Mar 17, 2013 06:08
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Jerusalem posted:Was I just unlucky or is the naval combat kinda screwy in Shogun 2? I was forced into a wildly unbalanced fight with an enemy fleet and I somehow managed to rout 3/4s of the enemy. I slowly whittled down the remaining forces but the battle wouldn't end, so I ended up scouring every inch of the oceans till I found routed enemies tucked away in the corners of the battle map listed as not in combat (but the battle momentum meter was clearly taking them into account and putting me at a severe disadvantage). I slowly attacked each one, but because they were placed half in and half out of the battle map it was difficult to get my bow ships to actually open fire, while the enemy ship seemed free to attack me. In the end there was ONE enemy ship left and my final ship decided to rout, at which point I suffered a "close defeat" and all the ships I would have otherwise captured went back to the enemy. The next couple of battles I managed to wipe them out, but it was kinda annoying to go from what should have been a heroic victory to a close defeat through what I felt was no fault of my own. Unfortunately this happens sometimes, with the ships fleeing to the edges of the map, but I never had any difficulty attacking them. It's really unfortunate the naval combat in Shogun 2 is so half-baked, it could've been a great deal of fun and it certainly looks fantastic.
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Mar 17, 2013 06:48
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