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Xom doesn't that usually result from the Chinese rule of self-capture? Is that still a valid rule in China?
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Mar 4, 2013 21:15
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| # ? May 12, 2024 22:23 |
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Regular Chinese scoring doesn't allow self-capture. Most people use Japanese rules over Chinese I think for the simple reason that it's the way you count if you're counting during a game - people count their territories mid-game by twos or threes or fives and add the prisoners to figure out where they stand, and counting all the stones on the board is insane in that situation. Counting both sides to 120-130 twice instead of 60 or 70 gives you more opportunities to gently caress up, takes longer, and when those consequences come together, kind of spoils the reason you counted in the first place; you wanted to know with some kind of precision who was ahead. Given that a decent player can eyeball a game to five or eight points in a few seconds, precision is the whole reason to count at all, and you get less of it counting Chinese. You KNOW there's some powerful motivator behind it if the Koreans use Japanese counting, because God knows they have no natural inclination to. Counting either way is going to be exactly the same for you, though, because it would take a dan-level player to recognize a game where they weren't, and a professional to engineer a situation where it benefited them. Once upon a time, Go Seigen got burned by this, and when he did it on purpose a few years later the Nihon Ki-in changed the rules to disallow it and burned his rear end again. Moral of the story is don't be a Chinese dude in Japan I guess
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Mar 4, 2013 21:58
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What rule set allows/allowed self capture? I distinctly remember that was a thing that could be used as a ko threat in some rule set.
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Mar 5, 2013 01:49
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^^^ Its the New Zeland rules that allow for self-capture, and probably some sperg who posted his self made rules set to sensei's Just don't make a bent four in the corner because what the gently caress.
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Mar 5, 2013 01:50
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Uncle Jam posted:^^^ Its the New Zeland rules that allow for self-capture, and probably some sperg who posted his self made rules set to sensei's hey, I just realized we are in the same area, I think. You know of any go clubs around Detroit?
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Mar 10, 2013 22:39
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uh zip zoom posted:hey, I just realized we are in the same area, I think. You know of any go clubs around Detroit? The only one I know of is Ann Arbor. Its kind of in a lull right now because the people who promoted it heavily graduated and I don't think anyone stepped up to replace them (including myself). They meet Thursday and Sunday, but it seems more busy on Thursday. Its tough for me to go on Thursdays so there still is probably a good amount of people to play then. I say lull, but compared to other midwest clubs its pretty active still.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:31
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I don't know if anyone else is following this, but there was a kickstarter for a Go documentary, which asked for $15,000 and got $25,000. Now they only want $30,000 more to "fire a full time editor and pay for post-production expenses". On the one hand, $60,000 is still dirt cheap for a documentary. On the other hand, they should have made the Kickstarter goal $60,000 if that's what they needed.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:37
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Uncle Jam posted:The only one I know of is Ann Arbor. Its kind of in a lull right now because the people who promoted it heavily graduated and I don't think anyone stepped up to replace them (including myself). They meet Thursday and Sunday, but it seems more busy on Thursday. Its tough for me to go on Thursdays so there still is probably a good amount of people to play then. I feel like a scumbag because I haven't been to the club yet this year either. Go on Thursday, Sunday isn't a good day. I'm not sure where you're located, but iirc Jon Hop was trying to find people to play near him in South Lyon, and David Frankel has a group that plays at his house on Wednesdays I think, but that has the big drawback of having to hang out with David Frankel. He's in Bloomfield Hills.
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Mar 11, 2013 09:38
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Under 15 posted:I feel like a scumbag because I haven't been to the club yet this year either. Go on Thursday, Sunday isn't a good day. I'm not sure where you're located, but iirc Jon Hop was trying to find people to play near him in South Lyon, and David Frankel has a group that plays at his house on Wednesdays I think, but that has the big drawback of having to hang out with David Frankel. He's in Bloomfield Hills. drat, that's really rough. I'm in Southfield, but I'm also wheelchair bound which makes it difficult for me to get to other people's houses, If that's where people are meeting up.
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Mar 11, 2013 23:55
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uh zip zoom posted:drat, that's really rough. I'm in Southfield, but I'm also wheelchair bound which makes it difficult for me to get to other people's houses, If that's where people are meeting up. If you can drive, the Ann Arbor one meets up in a coffee shop. There is a parking garage behind it. I used to drive from St. Clair Shores but I was a lot more crazy about go back then.
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Mar 12, 2013 00:30
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Uncle Jam posted:If you can drive, the Ann Arbor one meets up in a coffee shop. There is a parking garage behind it. I used to drive from St. Clair Shores but I was a lot more crazy about go back then. do they have a website or some other information?
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Mar 12, 2013 00:34
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The Ann Arbor club meets here, and it's probably your best bet: Espresso Royale 324 S State St, Ann Arbor, MI (734) 662-2770 espressoroyale.com Thursday nights are the best time to show up, usually someone has arrived by 7 and almost certainly by 8. Ann Arbor is kind of a bitch if you're not very familiar with it so I drew some arrows for you.  The red arrows are the entrances to the structure, which costs a lot to park in but so does everywhere in AA. If you go a few blocks south on Thompson Street there's a U of M parking structure that's free after 5pm but I'm not sure if that's something that works for you; if it is, I can explain in greater detail, it's maybe a half mile south. The elevator drops you off by Maynard Street, and if you go south a little bit you can go through the Arcade, which is a nicely finished alley with a bunch of shops, and then hang a left as you come out and be in front of Espresso Royale about 30 feet later. You should be able to get around in a wheelchair without any issues, but the bathroom would be troublesome. There's a million other places with restrooms on the same block, though, so there is probably somewhere you can poo poo in peace.
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Mar 12, 2013 06:17
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I've always been interested in Go, because I've always heard it described as a tougher version of chess, and I'm moderately good at chess. I discovered the thread a few weeks ago and downloaded the program in the OP... and I can't beat the AI on the lowest difficulty setting with the maximum handicap. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I did the tutorials in the OP as well, and I got them all in three tries at most. What are some common beginner traps that people fall into? Also, coming from chess, is it possible I brought in some bad habits/preconceptions that I need to get rid of?
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Mar 12, 2013 07:20
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One thing that new players often get confused about, especially if they're playing alone, is basic strategy; maybe after a few games they realize they should play in the corners first, but as soon as an opponent's stone gets anywhere near them they decide they're gonna try to kill it. The problem with this mindset in go is that you usually can't kill something unless your opponent allows you to, or you're starting with overwhelming strength. Groups of stones only get larger as you smash them into each other, and as more stones are played, the groups get bigger and safer with every turn, and the tension goes way down. Low ranking players get in the mindset of WE ARE FIGHTING NOW and around 17k you get some funny games where black and white will just make a wall that runs right across the center of the board, and whoever has the bigger half wins the game. A smidgen higher rank, and they do the same thing, only this time after they divide the map they do BULLSHIT INVASIONS THAT SHOULDN'T WORK ARGH. As the players get better, they start to play more balanced games as the players recognize they can leave positions earlier and earlier. If you want to get past the beginner ranks, the best thing to remember I think is to always be careful to expand your own groups and increase their liberties, and don't worry much at all about attacking or killing or surrounding your opponent's stones. If your stone is being assaulted, just focus purely on expanding it enough that you feel safe leaving it alone and playing somewhere else.
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Mar 12, 2013 09:00
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I've been looking to get back into Go, after dropping it a long time ago because I felt like I was incredibly bad, but one of the most important things I learned was this bit summed up on telgo.com better than I ever could.quote:Most people start playing Go with the object of capturing the opponent's stones. They have learned that you can surround other stones and capture them, and that this gives you points. If they are playing other beginners, this strategy may be successful for a while, but they soon find that this does not work against more experienced players. Let's make this point in a big way: I'm not sure if that's a trap you're falling into, but once I realized this I felt better about my play. Winning was still very rare, but that's beginner's Go for ya.
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Mar 12, 2013 10:04
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razorrozar posted:I've always been interested in Go, because I've always heard it described as a tougher version of chess, and I'm moderately good at chess. I discovered the thread a few weeks ago and downloaded the program in the OP... and I can't beat the AI on the lowest difficulty setting with the maximum handicap. First of all, I wouldn't say it's a "tougher" version of Chess, since well, it's absolutely nothing like Chess. I think it gets an image of being a harder game due to the fact that there are simply more options per move - and it creates a "local", "middle" and "global" scope where a good move locally might not be the best move globally. A classic example is making an invasion very early in the game:  This is great if it's near the end of the game and other positions on the board are settled - White has successfully invaded and made some territory for herself, reducing Black in the process. At the right time, this sequence could win a losing game. But if this was played at the very start of the game? White gets 8 or so points, but Black gets a massive wall that radiates out into the rest of the board and will undermine White's performance elsewhere, leading to long-term gains. This is a small example of the wonderful symmetry and beauty inherent in Go. What this means for players is that you can't adopt a "algorithmic" approach where you say "if this, then this, if this, then that", but you must engage your creativity, intuition and think about the whole picture, and play moves that suggest or aim towards your goal. In this respect it engages a different kind of skill set from Chess but I wouldn't call either harder than the other. Go is just more beautiful!
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Mar 12, 2013 10:09
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Also just to say, can't say it enough, when you are first learning, get on KGS or some server where you can get some teaching games. Unfortunately bots can't give you any sense of fundamentals or where you're going wrong if you don't know, but a player can, and it'll set you off on the right path much, much, much quicker than playing bots. But by all means play them to get a rank so automatch works properly.
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Mar 12, 2013 10:20
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:A classic example is making an invasion very early in the game: 
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Mar 12, 2013 13:33
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I've just started posting a bit more on Life in 19x19 and have been introduced to the poster known as RobertJasiek. How someone can continually derail threads about his books or whatever and not be banned is seriously impressive. Literally every thread he posts in on that forum devolves into argument.
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Mar 13, 2013 16:04
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Robert Jasiek vs John Fairbairn is the greatest one-sided rivalry in go
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Mar 13, 2013 16:34
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I think my favorite Robert Jasiek post is when he came into a thread about some recent pro games with interesting fuseki (6-4 openings and such) where he said something along the lines of "Finally Asian pros are starting to experiment with the openings I explored in <insert book here> ten years ago"
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Mar 13, 2013 18:41
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I took a couple of lessons from him recently and some guy ridiculed me today for it on ITGO. I didn't know about his reputation before, but for whatever it's worth, his lessons so far have been excellent and he hasn't tried to sell me his stuff.
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Mar 13, 2013 22:48
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quote:For the other aspects of center strategy, my games are as good as Takemiyas; I could hardly notice another difference (except for a somewhat different playing style related to center moyos).
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Mar 13, 2013 23:06
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I read some stuff a that he wrote a long time ago on a newsgroup and it was a lot less insane, I seriously wonder if he's getting old or is developing some mental issues.
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Mar 14, 2013 03:31
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Just stumbled across this whilst looking for which Graded Go Problems book to start with, Matthew Macfayden solved the entire first book in 9 minutes with no errors. That's like, 240 problems.
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Mar 14, 2013 19:35
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I decided to learn how to play, and I just did my first two games against real human beings! I even won one of them, though I guess that's to be expected against people just as bad as me. Lost the first game, B+64.5  Won the second game, W+Res  It's fun so far, even though I have no idea what I'm doing. I'll probably ask to join ITGO once I've burned through a few more games and the ? disappears from my rank.
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Mar 16, 2013 09:27
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Just join now. It's just a private chatroom, and no one cares whether you have a rating.
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Mar 16, 2013 20:44
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Uncle Jam posted:Yet another new go server has opened up. It has real time and correspondence I joined up as 68k
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Mar 17, 2013 19:00
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Under 15 posted:David Frankel has a group that plays at his house on Wednesdays I think, but that has the big drawback of having to hang out with David Frankel. He's in Bloomfield Hills. Is he really that bad? He is significantly closer to me than Ann Arbor, so if you have his contact information and wouldn't mind sending it to me in a p.m., that would be awesome.
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Mar 21, 2013 13:46
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http://promotego.org/locations/oakland-county-go-club-2 Looks like he moved. gently caress, that's close enough to me that I could almost walk. I think he's mellowed out a bit, but I'm not sure. When he used to play in Ann Arbor he was not very popular, but that was several years ago and people change.
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Mar 22, 2013 00:49
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Under 15 posted:http://promotego.org/locations/oakland-county-go-club-2 I managed to get in touch with them through e-mail, he seems alright.
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Mar 22, 2013 01:16
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Behold the genius level play displayed at 6-7k levels http://eidogo.com/#BwsrCNnx. Worst thing is that I still won that game. Maybe I should solve some problems 
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Mar 26, 2013 21:45
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Thoughts, be aware it's late so I might have got some of the local stuff wrong: Move 20 too small and hell of slow. Move 31, I would have prefered to play on the right around K17 or G17 (which is some kind of joseki IIRC) Move 36, free move, ignore that poo poo and get tucked into his framework Move 38, lame, weaksauce, be more severe, try H18 for instance! Move 84 looks like one of those dan-level imitation moves that don't work. Yes you do need to get stuck in there, but you need to push Black down if poss and then run out with really light moves, like maybe start with Q4. Maybe N4 is even better, it kind of threatens K2 group which then leaves you options depending on how Black reacts Move 98 sucks, it can be cut by Black O4. Move 112 was pointless, it can't be cut? Move 116, hard to see this one, but instead play M8, black L8, cut at L7, black K7, threaten to connect at L5. Puts pressure on top Black group after that. If you lived in the corner like you did later on, lower B might also be hosed. Try and seperate groups where you can, even if it doesn't seem like it will help, it usually ends up doing so Move 134, F15 plz Move 158, I assume was a misread The rest, you kind of fell apart because you played too thinly, trying to keep black in with hanes and double hanes that would never work. Play more solidly, it won't come back to haunt you in the endgame!
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Mar 26, 2013 22:41
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Move 20 is one of those things that mid-kyus have a lot of problems with - yeah, it's an annoying move, but it doesn't help white at all since as he attacks his group becomes much heavier than black's and the whole attack backfires. Moves like s14 have to be held in reserve until white has put some stress on black's formation. If white had a stone or two on the right side, particularly at r10 or r11, then s14 becomes a huge pain in the rear end for black. Without it, black has the resources to deal with s14 just fine, so it's fortunate for lemons here that black just kind of went along with having his territory gouged. This replays itself immediately with w24 at h3. Black shuts it down right away with k3, which imo is a really good reply. White's reply of h5 sucks; if black wants, he can connect under at any time. Even if he didn't feel like doing that, the corner is open! White could hold back and play h4 and at least disconnect black, but that still doesn't change the fact that the corner is open, and black can make an eye in sente no problem and shoot right out into the center. With J2 you take gote to disconnect f3, but it could still live in the corner so what's the point. Move 54, h7, is another move I have a problem with because it seems like you conceived of yourself as some sort of badass attackerman with it but you had a perfectly solid and lucrative move at f2 to play. Connecting your groups means that you are no longer under any threat at all and it's up to black to take gote to fix his lovely group. Are you considering the aji at the 3-3 point when you played h7? It's pretty easy for black to play a lot of horseshit there, and at 6k your eyes should be opening to this aji, even if you can't use it so well yet. In conclusion, it seems like you spend a lot of energy attacking stones but you aren't paying close attention to why you are doing what you do, what your goals are, or what the board might look like when you're done. I think you'd be well served by concentrating more on building and securing your own formations and groups and not worrying so much what your opponent is up to - if you play steadily, especially as a 6k, your opponent will crack and make some really dumb invasions, or else he'll collapse in the endgame There is nothing more satisfying than playing a steady, patient game against an aggressive opponent holds it together by spite into yose but collapses completely when it's time to pull it all together at the end.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:26
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Uncle Jam posted:Yet another new go server has opened up. It has real time and correspondence Just registered as Supreme Lord Jeremy. I know the rules, but that's pretty much it (I'm terrible).
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Mar 29, 2013 05:00
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Haoma posted:4d by 2013 4d by 2014 
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Apr 13, 2013 20:15
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sorry for your loss
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Apr 15, 2013 13:29
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Anybody still on the fence about going to a local go club/meeting... DO IT! Went to a club while I was traveling in Malaysia, and learned loads in such a short time. Go players are eager as hell to get more players in the game (at least in countries with few players), so they'll help any scrub out. Now I just have to push myself to play online 
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Apr 26, 2013 01:16
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Doing lots of life and death problems is apparently good for you. Doing lots of life and death problems that are just of the edge of your capability and doing them quickly is really good for you. Spending an hour on one problem, not so much. That's what I heard, anyway. http://www.smartgo.com/ Free for 15 days so download it when you can commit to smashing it out, see how far you get, rinse and repeat from the beginning often. Then buy it, probably. Lots of graded problems and not just l&d!
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Apr 26, 2013 22:07
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I don't think the speed at which you do tsumego is important, it's what you take from the experience; recognising patterns of thought, guiding yourself to an acceptable sequence of moves sparked thro' intuition....
o.m. 94 fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 01:22
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