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It would be one thing for your framerate to plummet like TressFX can do and another for the screen to replicate ludicrous speed from Spaceballs. Turning Tessellation off does stop it breaking. I turned it back on after but I'm sure it will break again. Carecat fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 17:38
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Dogen posted:Isn't tessellation pretty compute-heavy? Maybe that has something to do with the problems with 600s since they have cut down compute performance. I couldn't say. On or off, I get a solid 60 FPS regardless, though to be sure, I'm only running 1920x1080.
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Mar 17, 2013 17:40
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I hope Lara keeps all the scars for any future installments, and any scars she picks up in those, too. Make her body a real roadmap of all her adventures....unless, I dunno, she finds the fountain of youth or something and has to kill a horde of 600-year-old regenerating conquistadores.
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Mar 17, 2013 17:56
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User0015 posted:I liked the fact Lara references her wound from the beginning of the game as the story progresses. She's often holding it when there's a traumatic scenes, and it's nice they remind you that she's still hurt. It's easy to give your characters horrible wounds, only to forget about them as soon as it's inconvenient to remember your characters are hurt. It's lazy, and I'm glad they didn't take that route.
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Mar 17, 2013 18:00
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Dogen posted:Isn't tessellation pretty compute-heavy? Maybe that has something to do with the problems with 600s since they have cut down compute performance. No, not at all. TressFX however uses compute. Tessellation is horribly broken in this game - it still causes constant crashes if I turn it on, and I have an ATI card.
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Mar 17, 2013 18:05
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notZaar posted:It is a nice touch, except that seconds after having her abdomen horribly pierced she's running and climbing just fine. It's a little dissonant. Well yeah, but she also takes bullets and swords to the face like a champ and never needs to sleep or eat after the first day. She's a little trooper. Obviously you can't make a game with a player character to injured to participate, but most developers are lazy about it and just have the character heal by the next cutscene and never mention it again. Even Uncharted 2 did that, with Nathan taking an ugly gut shot and then there's some medicine magic and he's fine after 3 days (conveniently skipped by a cutscene). If you wound a player like that, it should mean something besides, "Now you stumble around until next chapter."
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Mar 17, 2013 18:50
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User0015 posted:Well yeah, but she also takes bullets and swords to the face like a champ and never needs to sleep or eat after the first day. She's a little trooper. It's not just there's a difference between cutscenes and gameplay, the problem with that particular injury is that there are cutscenes in between where she's just fine. It's ages before she goes looking for any first aid for it, probably because whether the injury bothers her or not in the cutscenes is basically determined by whether her being injured would add "tension" or whatever. Personally I thought that was lazy, if the plot doesn't demand Lara be injured, the hole in her side is completely ignored, and as soon as Lara needs to be appear vulnerable, the wound she's got is suddenly a major hinderance to her. Personally I found it contrived whenever Lara had to start holding her side because of the injury, it didn't run right with the rest of the story to me (and for that matter I thought the injury itself was contrived, lara just happens to fall on a single spike that just happens to be pointing straight upward from a great height that's juuust the right size to injure her but not kill her right at the start of the game), and the only time it actually seemed like the injury was important, Lara had been through a pretty nasty event (the parachute ride) immediately before, to the point where I felt it would have made more sense to just give her injuries from that. Reveilled fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 19:26
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How else can you do it though? Like I said, the only other options are to make her completely unable to continue because her injuries are to severe, not have injuries at all, or what games always do: Miraculous healing. I understand what you're saying. "Oh look, she has cutscene injuries. Again." But there's a pretty thin line between severe injury that doesn't stop her, and injuries that don't really matter. You can't really have both. I suppose you could have something like the original die hard movie, where a character accrues injuries to the point they're a shambling mess for the final encounter, but even that takes agency away from the player. Recall that Mass Effect 3 tried this approach.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:33
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I think the problem isn't that people are saying "she should take realistic damage" but instead "they could have toned back the pure excessive amount of damage she takes because it starts to get silly." You can make her look tough without dropping her off a cliff to smash her head against a stone floor repeatedly and in fact it's a case where overdoing it actually makes it less impressive because she goes from "amazingly tough" to "Was Papa Croft actually Wolverine?"
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Mar 17, 2013 19:36
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Reveilled posted:Personally I found it contrived whenever Lara had to start holding her side because of the injury, it didn't run right with the rest of the story to me (and for that matter I thought the injury itself was contrived, lara just happens to fall on a single spike that just happens to be pointing straight upward from a great height that's juuust the right size to injure her but not kill her right at the start of the game), I really think they should have had her patch it up at the moment you find the radio. Just have her find a first aid kit or something with the supplies. That way you can have it affect her in stressful spots without it being as contrived. Heck, maybe even show her taking painkillers which would explain why it doesn't really slow her down for a while.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:"Was Papa Croft actually Wolverine?" This would be really amazing though.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:41
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User0015 posted:How else can you do it though? Like I said, the only other options are to make her completely unable to continue because her injuries are to severe, not have injuries at all, or what games always do: Miraculous healing. You could have her treat the injury in the beginning instead of quite a bit into the game, having it treated would give an excuse to not have it affect gameplay, but since injuries take time to heal you could have it come up after heavy activity in cutscenes.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:42
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The level of nitpicking about pointless poo poo about this game is astounding to me. Play the game and have fun, don't complain about pointless injury inconsistencies.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:51
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Mokinokaro posted:I really think they should have had her patch it up at the moment you find the radio. Just have her find a first aid kit or something with the supplies. That way you can have it affect her in stressful spots without it being as contrived. Heck, maybe even show her taking painkillers which would explain why it doesn't really slow her down for a while. Yeah, exactly, If they had to injure Lara right at the start of the game, I'd have thought it better if she'd maybe stitched the wound close and bandaged it at the first camp. Then you could have the stiches come loose and the wound reopen after the parachute to Shantytown, but really I think the better choice would have been just not to injure her. The injury itself felt contrived, and if they couldn't write the story without ignoring the thing half the time, I think it would have been better to leave it out, and make the injuries at the later section spoilered above more severe to justify the sequence immediately afterward. To be honest, as much as people have complained about disparities in the gameplay and story, or the story supposedly being confused as to what the difference between a survivor and an 80s action hero is, the only thing that really bugged me about the story was that ridiculously specific spike and its consequences (or lack thereof) for the narrative.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:54
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It seems the multiplayer is doa.
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Mar 17, 2013 19:58
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Reveilled posted:but really I think the better choice would have been just not to injure her. The injury itself felt contrived, and if they couldn't write the story without ignoring the thing half the time, True. If they wanted a sense of suffering at the start, have her fall on some hard ground/rocks and slowed down for a little due to bruising instead of convenient rebar.
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Mar 17, 2013 20:01
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illiniguy01 posted:It seems the multiplayer is doa. Its crap and promotes spawn camping. Thankfully it seems it didn't take away from the main game, a shame they have multi trophies though.
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Mar 17, 2013 20:07
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I wasn't able to join a single multiplayer game. It might be a regional thing of being in Europe where there are fewer players. Still it was kinda strange to me not to be able to find a game in a fresh title like this in 10 tries or just hang out infinitely in empty lobbies.
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Mar 17, 2013 20:19
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Reveilled posted:To be honest, as much as people have complained about disparities in the gameplay and story, or the story supposedly being confused as to what the difference between a survivor and an 80s action hero is, the only thing that really bugged me about the story was that ridiculously specific spike and its consequences (or lack thereof) for the narrative. My favorite word.  I dunno about lack of consequences. Like I said, they remind you she's badly hurt a number of times, and I like that better than the usual thing games do: Ignore it ever happened after 10 minutes. Mokinokaro posted:I really think they should have had her patch it up at the moment you find the radio. Just have her find a first aid kit or something with the supplies. That way you can have it affect her in stressful spots without it being as contrived. Heck, maybe even show her taking painkillers which would explain why it doesn't really slow her down for a while. Isn't that what they did though? Not the first aid kit part, but that it affects her after stressful spots. I.E. Cutscenes and set pieces? I agree it's a contrivance. I just think it's an effective one, especially compared to other games where your character suffers a massive wound and then (sometimes literally) walks it off. Hel posted:The problem is not that she's injured it's that the effect of that injury swings wildly back and forth without any reason. If it never affects gameplay and only acts up in cutscenes, you'll piss players off because they'll feel like Lara suffers from something like Cutscene Stupidity. You want to talk about the game wildly swinging? I guarantee doing something like that would make players go nuts, because nothing would match up between gameplay and outside of it. You'd happily be plowing through hordes of dudes and climbing around, get in a cutscene and suddenly get wrecked by a single person or two because of your 'injuries', then plow through 20 more bad dudes after gameplay picks up. You kind of do that already, in fact, which annoys a lot of people in this thread. A lot of suggestions is to just remove it entirely, but that's really the heart of the matter. If anything, I'd say her wounds should have had a much harder gameplay effect and less of a cutscene one, not in separating it even more and making it even more disjointed. That's hard to do though, so just the fact they don't forget about it like most games do is good enough for me.
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Mar 17, 2013 20:20
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4 Day Weekend posted:Why would you upload this? 
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Mar 17, 2013 20:24
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CheechLizard posted:because I am not an srs gamerz?
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Mar 17, 2013 20:28
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Mr. Mallory posted:The level of nitpicking about pointless poo poo about this game is astounding to me. Play the game and have fun, don't complain about pointless injury inconsistencies. Every game has its hater bandwagon, and this isn't really directed at anyone -- or even this forum -- in particular, but It's kind of funny how the progression of that curve has gone with TR: Stage 1: "I think Lara moans too much and it sounds too sexy when I turn the video off of my video game. Also a developer made a relatively pointless comment about "protecting" Lara that broke the uninterrupted record of developers being master orators with the interviewing skills of politicians." (Square Enix bends over backwards to reassure people that at no point during Tomb Raider will Lara be sexually assaulted.) Stage 2: "Well, whatever. Game developers/publishers/players are still literally worse than the devil, and besides, this is a Tomb Raider game and it's going to suck and the only people who will enjoy it are loving misogynists who hate women and want to guide Lara into a throat spike over and over again while they jerk it." (Game is released, is perhaps the finest example of the third-person cinematic action game to date. At no point is Lara sexually assaulted, nor is a booty shorts DLC outfit unlocked, etc.) Stage 3: "Uh... well... shooting 500 guys is not very realistic, is it? And if they were going to make Lara sustain an injury at the start of the game, why can she pull off headshots and leap across chasms? Hey, did you know in real life, if you get shot by a bullet, it will kill you and you won't regen after a few seconds? Game is all over the place. If Lara is injured, the controls should totally suffer until such point that the $60 retail product isn't fun to play anymore."
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Mar 17, 2013 20:32
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User0015 posted:My favorite word. I can see where you're coming from, but personally while I'm willing to divorce the gameplay and the cutscenes when I play a video game, I feel like the cutscenes themselves as a whole ought to have internal consistency, and I didn't think the injury she had met that. They remind you she's badly hurt on several occasions, but it seemed to me to be very much an afterthought, put in to remind you that she's injured and ignoring the actual consequences of an abdominal puncture wound. Any time it came up, I simply found myself wondering why they'd put that injury into the game as the consequence of the very first action you take while basically ignoring it for most of the game's first half. It seemed to be in there just for the sake of hurting Lara, which is made weirder by the fact that contrary to what some of the reviews and the PR suggested, it's basically the only time where a painful experience for Lara seems gratuitous or just done for the sake of hurting her rather than a consequence or mechanism by which to advance the plot. I thought the game was actually much much better on this point than I had initially worried based on the initial reviews. I know what you mean about other games doing these injuries and having them magically heal, but personally I'd prefer if games stopped doing the "horrible cutscene injury that adds tension but has no impact on the gameplay or overall plot" thing altogether, either by making the injuries meaningful or just getting rid of them. What they did in Tomb Raider felt like they were half-assing it a bit, and I felt that given what happens in Shantytown that they sort of realised that halfway through but it was too late by this point to go back and remove it altogether. Reveilled fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 20:39
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notZaar posted:It is a nice touch, except that seconds after having her abdomen horribly pierced she's running and climbing just fine. It's a little dissonant. Running, climbing and swimming through sewage. After being impaled on rusty metal. In my head-canon she finishes the game then dies three hours later from septicaemia, massive blood loss and hyper-tetanus. Edit: ^^^ weirdly I agree with both the two posts above at the same time; the verisimilitude of the way the grittygrim realism and the action movie heroics interact is clunky, but it's a very minor issue. sebmojo fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 20:51
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sebmojo posted:Running, climbing and swimming through sewage. After being impaled on rusty metal. Its a minor issue that will need to be eventually addressed as gaming evolves.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:06
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Lara is a indirectly a superheroine so I don't know what the problem is - she mows down tons of enemies and has super-strenght, impossible endurance, agility, can run infinitely etc. To me this game is almost like Batman: Begins in a lot of ways. The movie introduced darker themes, probability and physical constraints to a guy who will later fly between skyscrapers without making you actually analyse it or destroying the suspension of desbelief because you have to buy the improbable premise in the first place. Tomb Raider is the same. We know Lara Croft as a woman who graciously jumps through bottomless tombs while escaping T-Rexes. You have to accept a certain dose of fiction here while allowing for some rough "origins" themes that add flavor to the story. Her difficulties and low points create a drama and benefit the plot while analysing the consistency of received wounds falls way out of the fiction spectrum that the franchise still contains.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:08
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I think it's a fairly easy issue to solve, it's just a question of if what the obvious solutions are will sell more than Snipe Dudes In The Face: The Murdering.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:08
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blackguy32 posted:Its a minor issue that will need to be eventually addressed as gaming evolves. Why? Movies and TV regularly do things that are inconsistent with real life all the time, and to hold games to a higher standard where every instance of smug "well THAT couldn't happen" has to be planned for and meticulously explained is absurd.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:57
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Palpek posted:Lara is a indirectly a superheroine so I don't know what the problem is - she mows down tons of enemies and has super-strenght, impossible endurance, agility, can run infinitely etc. The Batman movies actually did much more interesting things with the character such as how what he does pretty much ruins his social life and actually led to a lot of ruin for the city in general. It is him placed in a world that is highly critical of him. Tomb Raider on the other hand, drops many of the things that they are trying to create with Lara Croft within the first 2 hours of the game.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:59
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bloodysabbath posted:Why? Movies and TV regularly do things that are inconsistent with real life all the time, and to hold games to a higher standard where every instance of smug "well THAT couldn't happen" has to be planned for and meticulously explained is absurd. Who said anything about holding them to a higher standard? I am holding them to the same standard. Which is why I criticized the Dark Knight Rises for having his back fixed with simply a little punch and some rest.. People criticized Prometheus for some of the stuff in that movie that was inconsistent. I was mostly annoyed that they played up the gritty beat up look when it didn't really make a bit of difference. Apparently many reviews criticized the same thing. Games are not movies and that is true, but for some reason, developers are trying to make their games like movies and it leads to stuff like we got in this game or things like in GTA4 where you are a psychopath in gameplay yet a annoyed frustrated man who resents killing in cutscenes. For all the flak I give Spec Ops, I think they did get that part at least right. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 22:08
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bloodysabbath posted:Every game has its hater bandwagon, and this isn't really directed at anyone -- or even this forum -- in particular, but It's kind of funny how the progression of that curve has gone with TR: This is really dumb and dismissive, and I for one am glad that critical thought and discussion is at least tolerated with some civility here on SA. How the gently caress else does media improve, if not through criticism? I think it's telling that games is the only electronic media not in The Finer Arts sub forum because apparently gamers still can't grasp that criticism != poo poo talking. I loved this game but there are plenty of problems that deserve discussion and I'm glad there's at least one place on the Internet that can happen with punctuation and relative civility.
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Mar 17, 2013 23:54
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I'm not reading a single bit of the drama in this thread but after spending about four hours with this game today I think it's loving awesome. It looks fantastic, the story is interesting, the environments are interesting and fun to explore and the combat is visceral as hell. Good game.
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Mar 18, 2013 01:29
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Yodzilla posted:I'm not reading a single bit of the drama in this thread but after spending about four hours with this game today I think it's loving awesome. It looks fantastic, the story is interesting, the environments are interesting and fun to explore and the combat is visceral as hell. Good game. BUT BUT LARA IS SO VIOLENT AND THERE'S A DISCON 
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Mar 18, 2013 01:33
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Yeah, I got it from Redbox, figuring I'd hedge my bets and kill a weekend with it if nothing else. I totally want to buy it now. The only thing I find wonky with it so far is that water on the camera effect. As neat as it is, am I playing this as Lara or am I watching it, game?  Other than that, it's a blast. Not quite what I was expecting (I guess I was picturing a more actiony Sims Castaway), but fun. DeathChicken fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 01:34
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ZeeBoi posted:BUT BUT LARA IS SO VIOLENT AND THERE'S A DISCON I believe there's a line right after she kills her first group of dudes where Lara says something like "it's scary how easy it is." Scary awesome. 
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Mar 18, 2013 01:35
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DrNutt posted:This is really dumb and dismissive, and I for one am glad that critical thought and discussion is at least tolerated with some civility here on SA. How the gently caress else does media improve, if not through criticism? It's also developers that can't grasp the idea that you can both like something and criticize its faults. Though we've exhausted most of the dissonance arguments about Tomb Raider by now. I'd bet what happened is that they had planned to make a much different game at first, then either realized it wouldn't be done on time or wouldn't sell (or both) and decided to clone Uncharted. And I totally agree: games are not movies and developers need to realize the medium needs to grow on its own. It can be influenced by movies, sure, but Tomb Raider, Uncharted, etc, just want to be movies and they add 15 minutes of shooting between scenes.
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Mar 18, 2013 01:36
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DrNutt posted:This is really dumb and dismissive, and I for one am glad that critical thought and discussion is at least tolerated with some civility here on SA. How the gently caress else does media improve, if not through criticism? Oh, Lara gets punctuated alright.
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Mar 18, 2013 01:36
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Even the instadeaths are kind of overstated. From what I've played so far, barring the odd scene like the cave escape and the stuff with the Russians, you're more likely to do the usual Tomb Raider thing and rocket yourself off of a cliff while trying to make a jump than to wind up in a gory QTE cutscene.
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Mar 18, 2013 01:42
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Spite posted:And I totally agree: games are not movies and developers need to realize the medium needs to grow on its own. It can be influenced by movies, sure, but Tomb Raider, Uncharted, etc, just want to be movies and they add 15 minutes of shooting between scenes. This isn't about Tomb Raider specifically, but I do hope video games get over the current craze for imitating film sooner rather than later. There are absolutely legitimate uses for film techniques in video games (e.g. when you are specifically trying to evoke being a particular style of film, like L.A. Noire), but in a lot of AAA games these days it almost seems like a cargo cult, like all that was missing from your work being considered real art was putting in film grain, a bit spatter on the lens and depth of field. On that note, is there a graphic option for disabling the lens effects in this game? I didn't have them for my first playthrough, but either the game or my card got patched and now there's little red hexagons on my screen any time I gut an animal.
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Mar 18, 2013 01:52
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Personally, I didn't have much issue with the way her injuries were handled throughout the game. I was reading on Steam news about some comparisons being made in the media between Uncharted and Tomb Raider, hitting up both their similarities and their differences. One of the things that really stood out was when they started talking about how much weight Lara has with her injuries compared to Drake, and it's really true; most players will probably subconsciously note how most of her movements and injuries are fairly realistic. Obviously falling on a pike of rebar (which itself makes sense when you remember the body she knocks down first falls through a shoddy floor) would have much more dire consequences in real life, but I thought CD did a decent job with making sure we know her injuries are consistent in the game. She's found holding her side quite a bit. When she falls, she falls hard and is stunned somewhat getting back. Even simple things like climbing are not necessarily sped up or done in a superhuman fashion; it's a slow, methodical affair. No, the game isn't perfect with its consistency regarding her injuries. And, of course it's still a game where you can't really outright cripple your character for most of the game. But, I don't think anyone is arguing that TR is a perfect game. Most players tend to agree that it's highly entertaining but that it definitely has flaws. I thought it did a better job than most games in regards to her injuries and keeping up consistency, but there is definitely room for the sequel to improve on it a little more and maybe flesh out some of the finer details (assuming they even continue with the "Lara gets beat to Hell/beats up bad dudes" style of gameplay, which they very well may not). There were lots of options with how they could have handled aspects of her injuries or treatment towards killing others during the game's planning stages that seemed to have gotten a little muddled up, but it seems like once they decided "Well, we're in this now," they did a fairly good job with the choices they had committed to. Basically, I felt like I didn't have to suspend my disbelief any more than I would have in any other fantasy-entertainment medium. Hell, I thought TR was more believable than many other examples in today's age, like the TDK issues blackguy32 mentioned, and I loved the gently caress out of that movie. Looking back now that I've completed the game, I don't know of many ways they could have changed some of the issues without drastically altering the entertainment value or tone of the game unless they went all the way back to the drawing board to do so. Reveilled posted:This isn't about Tomb Raider specifically, but I do hope video games get over the current craze for imitating film sooner rather than later. There are absolutely legitimate uses for film techniques in video games (e.g. when you are specifically trying to evoke being a particular style of film, like L.A. Noire), but in a lot of AAA games these days it almost seems like a cargo cult, like all that was missing from your work being considered real art was putting in film grain, a bit spatter on the lens and depth of field. I actually prefer the styling of video games trying to recreate film, though I'm pretty biased in that regard. Up until current advancements in technology, film was the only artform that combined nearly every other artform into one medium. But with films becoming this huge mainstream thing now, and getting teams and budgets that often rival (or even exceed) feature films, trying to push cinematic elements seems to be legitimizing games as an artistic medium. Supposedly, gaming makes even more money each year than the film industry, but because a large part of that is the inflated prices of games compared to movie tickets and time involved to enjoy them, they aren't getting the sheer number of people to play them compared to gtting butts in a theater for a couple hours. It's still considered by a large group as a "nerd's thing," and if games like Tomb Raider or the Mass Effect series need to emulate a film-like style to get that idea out of peoples' heads, then more power to them. Besides, cutscenes and broad story isn't new. jRPGs have been doing it forever. It's just that somewhere along the way developers realized they could take that element that people liked and put it into other gaming genres thanks to how far our technology has come. Axel Serenity fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 01:55
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