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I read that they were ReBooting Demon. Then I realized the truth.  MEGABYTE WASN'T THE BAD GUY! 
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Mar 18, 2013 23:00
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I want to make a 'Glitch in the Matrix' joke, but I can't quite get it there.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:39
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Dave Brookshaw posted:There's a long Demon spoiler thread here, which answers some of your questions. quote:Re: Demon: the Frutang; what do you want from it? Is there a summary of the actual content? 97 pages RPGnet is pretty close to lethal dose.
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Mar 19, 2013 11:39
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Firstly, you're playing Angels of the God-Machine who fell by encountering a situation that caused some kind of crisis in your spiritual programming, or forced you to make some decisions of your own free will. From this comes their 4x4 split of splats and factions. The Splat is what your role was while you were an Angel of the God-Machine. Pretty self-explanatory:
Slightly more complicated are the Agendas, which basically correspond to your approach in fighting the God-Machine and its agents:
A big focus is on an espionage feel; each Demon has a human identity known as their Cover, which is also the name of their Integrity track. When you use powers that draw attention to you, or when you take actions that go against your Cover's patterns of behaviour (player-defined morality sins!) you make a Compromise roll, and depending on the roll's outcome you might pick up temporary or permanent glitches in your Cover's form and behaviour or Conditions that affect your behaviour. You can raise your Cover by living its life and investing yourself deep in it, but you can also raise it by taking bits of human's identities and grafting them onto your own (this might be what demons make pacts with humans for). Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 13:18
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That sounds incredible, thanks for posting it. One thing I especially like is that you're clearly rebelling against the god-machine of the world of darkness, not Jesus's Dad. As cool as DtF's setting was, that can be a lot of baggage for people.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:38
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Psychopomps did a lot more than transport souls. They're also the splat that's had its nickname revealed (Wheels, which makes sense if you're into Jewish angel lore.) The fuel stat is called Aether. If you pump an animal full of it you get a Hellhound. The "swap pieces of othet people's lives to repair Cover" is a function of demonic Pacts. Anyone completely covered by the terms the "doner" set is covered, but others aren't. So if spiderman asks you to heal his aunt, and you say you'll do it in exchange for his marraige, he'll no longer have been married, Mary Jane will think she's been married to you all along but their friends will be wondering what the hell just happened and why they're both acting crazy. So demons tend to prey on loners and people with nothing to lose, pact-wise. We haven't yet said what happens if some poor fool sells you his soul. It's horrible.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:48
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Well get on with it then. Reveal the Fru-tang secrets.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:10
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Do we know yet what power demons have to actually deliver rewards to those they make pacts with?
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Mar 19, 2013 19:12
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Ferrinus posted:Do we know yet what power demons have to actually deliver rewards to those they make pacts with? I think it was pretty clearly stated, only two posts up, that they have the ability to save Aunt May's life.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:23
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Ferrinus posted:Do we know yet what power demons have to actually deliver rewards to those they make pacts with? It sounds like they can do supreme goal-orientated reality hacking to save Aunt May, but not in a localized/spread action that Mages use where you use Spell X with Size Y and Empowerment Z, R, and F; it just happens, and the people who bought it have to make it more real. I can't wait for straight up The Box and Twilight Zone level shenanigans.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:32
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That's what happens to the payment. Do you have to heal Aunt May with your own powers, is there a minigame where you spend invisible traits your pactee has to achieve ends your own powers couldn't...?
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Mar 19, 2013 19:40
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I think Aunt May just gets better, but this power is probably limited by needing a willing NPC to explicitly bargain for it. It's a thing in some folklore that crazy powerful beings like that can grant almost any wish for others but not themselves. At the end of the deal they still go back to the lamp or hell. The ST probably isn't going to stock his game with willing customers who want to pay you to djinn yourself up a Ferrari.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:50
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Ferrinus posted:That's what happens to the payment. Do you have to heal Aunt May with your own powers, is there a minigame where you spend invisible traits your pactee has to achieve ends your own powers couldn't...? Nothing about this is anything different than C:tL Pacts and/or Talecrafting giving you anything under the sun that you can arrange into being a fateful or prophetic occurrence. If anything, its a good sign that the writers are learning from the mistakes and growth of previous splats.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:22
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Well get on with it then. Reveal the Fru-tang secrets. The World of Darkness Megathread pt. V: I Will Never Reveal The Fru-Tang Secret If Mummy started off with me being very cold to the concept, and growing more excited from there, Demon so far has started me right at  . This fits in so, so well with my mental image of the World of Darkness, to the point where I'd already been using some of these themes and ideas together unwittingly, and now they'll have a place. I just have to hope the mechanics overhauls will be mostly for the better and won't make the grognardier friends of mine flip out.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:22
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Daeren posted:The World of Darkness Megathread pt. V: I Will Never Reveal The Fru-Tang Secret We got five pages to go before a new megathread makes sense, but I'm calling this the front-runner. I'm also really hoping that the revision team avoids the tragedy that is Mummy dice-mechanics. Also to Dave et al The Matrix and its gnostic themes are a major source of inspirtation c/d?
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Mar 19, 2013 20:25
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Gerund posted:We got five pages to go before a new megathread makes sense, but I'm calling this the front-runner. Yup, the devs have said that if Mage is like playing Neo, Demon is like playing the Oracle and the Merovingnian.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:18
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Or Seraph. Probably not the Keymaker, but he'd be a good npc. My main Demon Inspiration, though, for the chunks I wrote, was Person of Interest.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:00
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And no, no target number modification that I've seen. Demon's mechanics are a bit nonsensical to spoil, because it and Strix Chronicles are the first post-God Machine corebooks. They rely on it, to the extent that Demon will have the rules revision reprinted in it.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:15
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Or Seraph. Probably not the Keymaker, but he'd be a good npc. Heh, brilliant. I can see backdoor access to the Machine working as a very cool power, and Reese and Finch's extreme competence means they'd work well as supernatural beings. Which splats would you assign them to, out of interest?
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Mar 19, 2013 22:28
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Is there a hype blog or decent run-down that I can get players excited with regards to the God-Machine revisions rather than watching them get doubtful and/or scared? Most people in my WoD-LARP circle come to me for the scoops and most didn't know about it in the first place.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:45
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Flavivirus posted:Yup, the devs have said that if Mage is like playing Neo, Demon is like playing the Oracle and the Merovingnian. Dave Brookshaw posted:Or Seraph. Probably not the Keymaker, but he'd be a good npc. Yeah. Yeah! I'm really excited both to have the ability to make hellhounds, imps, and other "lesser demons" as servants, and to actually hide from or throw down with angels in the new edition of Demon. Those were both things that DtF didn't really allow for.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:49
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Count me as excited for Demon: the Frutang. The other nWoD gamelines do a good job at capturing that EC Comics fantasy horror vibe, but now we're getting into some Twilight Zone-eque scifi horror, which really doesn't get enough play in modern times. I'm stoked.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:55
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I am really glad that there exists a game that allows me to play BILL DOOR alongside Aziraphale and Anarchy goddamn Stocking.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:52
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I bought the God Machine Anthology off Drivethru for my eReader. 
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Mar 20, 2013 05:07
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Oh that's just fuckin' cool.
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Mar 20, 2013 05:09
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It felt like creepypasta, only real. Click if you want to try to read.  
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Mar 20, 2013 11:28
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There's an rpg.net God-Machine chronicle spoiler thread, but it digresses into Blood and Smoke a fair bit and some of it is already out of date, so in the interests of sanity I've been through it and pulled together the following summary for you, my favorite Goons. WHAT THE FRUITLOOPS IS GOING ON? The nWoD is starting to come out with Chronicle Books - big sourcebooks that present chronicle advice and samples along with sample stories. Rather than the "here's how to warp game X to play something like it but a little different" of the Chronicler's Guides, they're refocusing the lines on how to play games like those games' fiction - and (the part you're interested in) they include Mechanical updates for the games to do it. So the idea is that with Blood & Smoke, Nosferatu (for example) will be more like Nosferatu from Requiem's fiction. Vampires will be honed down to their essential vampire-ness. I think (and this is just me as a Storyteller talking) that they push the nWoD further away from the cWoD; they feel more like Storytelling games. Two of these Chronicle Books are on the schedule for 2013 - The God-Machine Chronicle (the nWoD corebook / "mortals" line) and Blood & Smoke: The Strix Chronicle (Vampire). 1) Because the God-Machine Chronicle has the system update for the core rules in it, the system update for Vampire in Blood & Smoke requires it, and Demon: The [still, after all this time, secret] (the first new game to come out after it) assumes that you're using it, as will any *future* games and Chronicle Books. 2) So it's free. The Storytelling System Revision - a hefty-chapter-sized Appendix in the God-Machine Chronicle - is going to be available seperately to the GMC as a free download, and is currently going to be reprinted in its entirity in Demon's corebook just in case. 3) The system updates to Vampire in Blood & Smoke are not going to be free, but they're so all-encompassing that you won't need the Requiem corebook to run Vampire any more. Literally every single vampire rule has been replaced, so the Strix Chronicle is an alternative corebook. 4) The core system updates in God-Machine are not quite that all-encompassing. They don't alter what the various traits are, how many dots you get at character creation and how to roll dice, so you will still need your old WoD core rulebooks. Although Rose reckons you should be able to get away with Nightmare at Hill Manor (the core-WoD quickstarter). 5) As for the other supernatural game lines? Too early to say. Werewolf (The Igidam Chronicle) and Mage (The ************ Chronicle - I'm not telling people the name until if and when it gets approved and announced) have both been proposed already. The workforce is, to put it mildly, mad keen to do the other game lines, too, but as with all things it depends on how successful the ones that have been scheduled are. 6) We have, however, already been using the GMC-Update to run the supernatural lines in our house games. Matt McFarland has a Promethean game, I've got the Mage game my rpg.net Actual Play is about. We've talked about putting blog posts up with quick reference guides, just enough to run the games under the new rules without the complete reworking of a full Chronicle Book - back when Masquerade Revised came out in... Uh.. 1998? The old White Wolf website had similar notes put up for Apocalypse, Ascension, and so on until those games got their own Revised editions. 7) All told, the changes are more significant than a cWoD edition change, but less sweeping than the difference between cWoD and nWoD. SPECIFICS, MAN, SPECIFICS! In no particular order, then. This is what's been spoiled so far on rpg.net and the White Wolf forums; 1) Character creation. 5th-dot-costs-double is gone. No more math tricks to squeeze optimisation, because... 2) Linear rather than exponential XP costs. Every dot of a trait will cost roughly the same investment of your playing time as the third dot did in the old system. But the numbers written on your sheet will be smaller, as we've repegged one (new) Experience as being the price of one (new) Merit dot. 3) A major feature of the update's design is to reward and incentivise players for having their characters go through the absolute mother-loving wringer. These are, after all, horror games. The new resource you earn are called Beats, named for the smallest unit of drama - the pauses put in scripts for the audience to take something in. You earn Beats when your character is severely wounded, when they resolve a Condition, when they accept someone's attempt to persuade them of something in the social rules. You can convert failures into dramatic failures of your own free ooc will, and get a Beat for doing it. Characters all have "Aspirations", short-term and long-term goals that you set at the end of every session. If you achieve them, you get Beats. 4) Five Beats convert into one Experience. We put the distinction between the two, rather than just having Merits cost five xp, so that we now have the line between "dramatic charge" and "character advancement" that's been missing so far. Experience is for putting new dots on your sheet. Things like Mage's Legacy tithe will cost Beats instead of XP. It's room for future expansion. 5) The second major feature is Conditions. If you're familiar with Tilts from Danse Macabre, they're rather like that - temporary changes to your character. Conditions are applied by other game mechanics, by dramatic failure and exceptional success, by some supernatural powers and by the environment. Each has a resolution trigger, which makes it go away. If you resolve a Condition, you get a Beat. So, for example, if you're trying to sweet-talk someone into helping you out and get an exceptional success, you might get a Condition noting that you and he have a good rapport, and that he now counts as a dot of Allies temporarily - resolved when you use it. Some Conditions, though, are permenant. They still earn you a Beat the first time in a session you hit their trigger, but they don't go away. This is how the new system handles Flaws and Derangements. The book has a *big* list of Conditions. Blood & Smoke has even more in it. But they're to cover the cases where mechanics apply them - you are encouraged to make new ones up on the fly. 6) The Merits list has been burned down and started again. Lots of Merits from the supplements and game lines made it in, many changed. No Merits have blank "dead" dots any more. No multiple action Merits survived the great Merit-purge. Resources actually has rules, now - items and services (hiring npcs to do skill rolls for you) have Availabilty, and your Resources rating determines what you can have an infinite amount of, what you can do once a story, and what you have to reduce your Resources for a story to push the boat out on. Several other Merits alter Availability. 7) Virtues and Vices are free-style now, not the set lists of 7 and 7. Your Virtue is a difficult but self-actualising thing, something that takes effort but makes you feel really good about yourself. Your vice is the quick, easy distraction from your troubles. One of Matt's demon playtest characters has a Virtue of "Arrogant" and a Vice of "Gregarious". Vices don't require danger to your character to earn Willpower any more. 8) Spirits, ghosts, and angels of the God-Machine have a semi-unified set of "ephemeral being" mechanics. The main changes - Numina have been split between Numina and "Manifestations", all the things like Materialize, Claim, Possess, Reaching, Open Avernan Gateway, that sort of thing. Manifestations rely on Conditions. Influences can be used to *create* Conditions, and some you get as a result of having a Manifestation used on you. So, for example, "Resonant" is a Condition, allowing a specific type of Spirit to feed Essence from whatever it's on. The spirit can create the "Open" Condition (which has a prerequisite of "Resonant"), allowing it to then use its Fetter Manifestation on it. It it's a living person, they then get "Urged", and the spirit can try to upgrade it to then use "Possess" and so on. There's a diagram. It's simpler than it sounds - stronger Manifestations require layers of time and effort by the entity. Ephemeral beings all have a ban, as before, and a bane - a material which is solid even in Twilight, burns them for lethal when they touch it and burns for Aggravated if they're manifested. Agg damage reduces Essence as well as Corpus. This is so you can have Hunters weilding rock-salt shotguns against ghosts, and there's a Merit called "Esoteric Armory" which is basically "Dean Winchester's car trunk". Entities count as the bane of *all* entities of the same type more than two Ranks below them and - crucially - Werewolves and Sin-Eaters count when *doing* damage, but not when *taking* it. So a Renown 3 Uratha does lethal damage to all Rank 1 spirits with his claws and bite whether they're in Twilight or not, aggravated if they're manifest. And spirits use the *lower* of Finesse and Resistance for their Defense, goddamn it. The downside is that even manifest spirits only take bashing damage from anything other than their bane. So learn to research your opponent. Exorcism, abjuration, and so on have all been redone. 9) Integrity, not Morality. Integrity measures how affected by your actions and the things you witness you are. Some things cause Integrity rolls - witnessing really horrible scenes of Silent-Hill scale gore and body-horror powers, say - but you define a few Breaking Points for your own character at character creation. If you fail, you get a Condition. If you dramatically fail, you get a permenant Condition - and there's three options for each, so you don't have to go crazy for shoplifting any more. Integrity's one of the places where the supernatural games will look really different. Humanity uses it as a rules base, but goes running off into left field, and isn't Integrity with different Breaking Points. Cover (the Demon Integrity Trait) is *really* different, as you're gathering from the other spoilers. 10) Combat. Combat's not actually been spoiled that much, despite the attention it's had. Basic combat, as you're no doubt aware, adds Athletics to your Defense, allows you to double your defense and roll it as an active dice pool if you want to dodge and applies weapon damage *after* a blow is successful, not as dice mods to the hit-roll. All weapons do lethal to humans. Some weapons have Initiative modifiers based on their bulkiness. Armor downgrades some lethal to bashing, then removes some levels of damage starting with the most severe, but lethal damage has a minimum effect - if your bullet proof vest stops a bullet, you will never take no damage from it. You'll get a bashing at least. But combat's got a lot more to it. There's one-roll combat for mooks. A set of mechanics that incentivise both parties to stop fighting before someone actually dies. Grappling rules that I think got spoiled somewhere. Tilts - combat-specific Conditions. And a bit more no one's talked about. I *think* that's all the spoilers so far for GMC. Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 12:52
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Flavivirus posted:Yup, the devs have said that if Mage is like playing Neo, Demon is like playing the Oracle and the Merovingnian. That's funny because the first thing I thought when I read that demon description was "It's the smell."
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Mar 20, 2013 14:45
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Liesmith posted:That's funny because the first thing I thought when I read that demon description was "It's the smell." Agent Smith is a perfectly acceptable Destroyer. Once he refuses to die when Neo kills him and falls, anyway.
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Mar 20, 2013 14:47
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So having only just re-caught up with the thread, missing out on the initial run of Mummy chat and because I've only just finished reading through the preview pdf. Other than the inclusion of the target number thing, what are peoples thoughts on Mummy? Is the thread discounting the game based on one mechanic which can easily be houseruled? Because from what I saw there was a lot of stuff I really liked in there.
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Mar 20, 2013 16:42
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Dave Brookshaw posted:9) Integrity, not Morality. Integrity measures how affected by your actions and the things you witness you are. Some things cause Integrity rolls - witnessing really horrible scenes of Silent-Hill scale gore and body-horror powers, say - but you define a few Breaking Points for your own character at character creation. If you fail, you get a Condition. If you dramatically fail, you get a permanent Condition - and there's three options for each, so you don't have to go crazy for shoplifting any more. loving GOD. Pretty much everything in this post looks drat good (dots costing the same amount per, especially), but this is easily and by far the best change. Getting away from 19th century pseudo-psychology and making an inherently subjective thing actually subjective is something that should have been done ten years ago.
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Mar 20, 2013 16:44
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I missed a lot of that, apparently, but  am I excited about GMC and Blood & Smoke. I've already been really looking forward to playing with the new Disciplines (I'm considering bugging the ST for my pbp to consider shifting to those or allowing them as separate Disciplines), but wow. This makes me want to run half a dozen games... You best believe I'll be grabbing GMC from DriveThru day of release.On an unrelated Vampire note, I'm redoing my Khaibit's sheet for another game to accommodate said new Discipline rolls and in rereading the new Auspex, I'm wondering why anyone wouldn't pick up the Enhanced Senses Merit - White Wolf Devs posted:Merit: Enhanced Senses - especially since it seems to be the new "eavesdrop on phone calls" thing. I know at least every Vampire larp (old and new) I've ever been in has had a rash people picking up Auspex 1 for just such that reason. Except for one stretch of time where the Mekhet got all pissy about it and gouged out the eyes of anyone who taught it.
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Mar 20, 2013 16:56
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Arashiofordo3 posted:So having only just re-caught up with the thread, missing out on the initial run of Mummy chat and because I've only just finished reading through the preview pdf. Other than the inclusion of the target number thing, what are peoples thoughts on Mummy? Is the thread discounting the game based on one mechanic which can easily be houseruled? Because from what I saw there was a lot of stuff I really liked in there. I've run one session of it, so far, for a short break game in my Mage campaign, and will hit a second here in ten days or so, so I can give my thoughts: The target number thing, in play, works for me. I hated it in OWoD, but here it's extremely explicit-- there's not really any surprise or confusion about when it's going to come up, it's just a dice trick. I don't know, still, that it's a dice trick I would have wanted included, but I don't really feel like it's much of a detraction in practice. In combat, Mummies are just... really satisfying. We ran a big combat with the mummies hopelessly outnumbered, mostly by sleepers with bow and arrow (it was set in Venice in 1200 AD), and it was amazing. They not only held their own, they essentially dominated, even in the face of heavy damage coming in their way (Mummy regeneration is pretty spectacular), and I for the first time in an ST game didn't feel like I needed to hold back in case things got too swingy with the combat system, because, well, if they die in the course of combat, it's just another plot point-- they're coming back. My only concern with the game is that it will only really be at its best the first time through, with a group that respected the notion of not reading through book 2 where all the secrets are. The core theme's very focused on memory, and in terms of the metagame, it's very hard to unlearn that stuff after the first reveal.
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Mar 20, 2013 18:18
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So Dave when can I buy the God-Machine? The White Wolf blog said it was going through the final steps of being put on the page.
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Mar 20, 2013 18:19
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I'm still kind of suspicious of Beats, because I don't like the pressure they create on you to deliberately fail. Don't send your most composed coterie member to talk to the Daeva, don't actually struggle when someone's turning you into a frog, and for god's sake don't maintain a steady grip on your blackjack if you happen to miss whoever you were swinging it at, because you're losing experience doing so!! David "machineiv" Hill from the White Wolf forums had a really cool idea for using Beats in one-shots, though: you can spend 1 Beat to cancel out 1 success any other character rolls to adversely affect yours. That'd turn them into a sort of "Okay, one person can't get owned THAT much in one night" balancing mechanism instead of a constant temptation to slip on banana peels and forget your wallet at home. The spirits/werewolves things sounds great, although werewolves are still missing the ability to see spirits in twilight with any degree of ease.
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Mar 20, 2013 19:43
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I wouldn't say they're missing it. Consider: werewolves are idiots.
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Mar 20, 2013 19:52
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No! They're strong and cool and brave!
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Mar 20, 2013 19:54
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Ferrinus posted:I'm still kind of suspicious of Beats, because I don't like the pressure they create on you to deliberately fail. Don't send your most composed coterie member to talk to the Daeva, don't actually struggle when someone's turning you into a frog, and for god's sake don't maintain a steady grip on your blackjack if you happen to miss whoever you were swinging it at, because you're losing experience doing so!! Considering that you get a Condition for an exceptional success, and you get a Beat when you use / resolve it, you can have your cake and eat it, too. Also, there's a cap on how many times you can make your own character botch for fun. I just can't remember what that cap is right now. Regarding werewolves - have edited the big post to unclude the sentance. left out. Entities of the same type, so Spirits (and Werewolves) are bane against spirits, not ghosts and angels. Ghost killing would make a good Gift, though.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:08
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Considering that you get a Condition for an exceptional success, and you get a Beat when you use / resolve it, you can have your cake and eat it, too. I remember reading that it's 1/scene that you can draw a Beat from a dramatic failure, although I don't know if that's per character or per gaming group. I like, in general, the existence of more dramatic failures so long as those dramatic failures are basically voluntary, I just wish the reward for dramatically failing was different. You basically never want to give up 0.2 experience points, because those are unilaterally good and last forever. If you got a bonus on your next roll or some other transitory, tactical thing it'd be different. quote:Regarding werewolves - have edited the big post to unclude the sentance. left out. Entities of the same type, so Spirits (and Werewolves) are bane against spirits, not ghosts and angels. Death **, if I remember right. And yeah, I figured the werewolf thing only applied to Shadow spirits by default. The stopgap we're using in our game right now is this: Primal Urge 2: You can see twilit spirits Primal Urge 4: You can touch twilit spirits, and they can touch you (also goes for equipment, so you can shoot them) Primal Urge 6: You can force spirits not to discorporate if you beat them up, so that you can eat them
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Mar 20, 2013 20:13
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I see the risks regarding Beats and bad decisions, but part of me thinks its worth the cost. Consider that most PCs tend towards a desire for Uber-competence in everything they do. I would say at least 50% of the people I have STed for over the years skew this way, on purpose or by accident. Probably more than that. To me the best model for TT games is the television show - its episodic, tends to have immediate payoff (end of episode) and long term payoff (end of season) in terms of story. The trouble is that unlike characters in a television show, I can't make my PCs make bad choices. Beats-as-incentive fixes that. So yeah, if my PCs hang around in Elysium waiting to get Entranced, that's story fodder. If they get XP for it, so much the better. Really the only reservation I have is about group interaction and Beats. If Beats are shared, then players might potentially feel pressure to do X action versus Y action for the benefit of the group. If Beats are individual, you run the risk of some people gaming the system much, much better than others. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 20:21
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