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You know, on a re-read, Dave really comes off as an rear end in a top hat here. Karkat's being all understanding and really only throws a tantrum after Dave derails the conversation. I mean, sure, it's funnier for us the audience, but in-story, gently caress off Dave, they're having a moment. I do feel bad for Terezi. She's all hosed up inside. quote:[Dreamself stuff] I rationalized that stuff by all the extra dreamabilities (flying, extra-arms, etc) only working on Prospit / Derse. Once the player leaves / Prospit gets destroyed, the abilities stop working.
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Mar 19, 2013 13:20
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Bobulus posted:You know, on a re-read, Dave really comes off as an rear end in a top hat here. Karkat's being all understanding and really only throws a tantrum after Dave derails the conversation. I mean, sure, it's funnier for us the audience, but in-story, gently caress off Dave, they're having a moment. Terezi brought it up first 
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Mar 19, 2013 13:46
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Seoinin posted:Ahaha yesss, Karkat rocking the chair all Youth Pastor Style. Kids, we have a guest here to "rap" with you today. He's here to "rap" with you about Jesus. CG: ALRIGHT YOU PIMPLY TEENAGE FUCKSTICKS. CG: IF YOU CAN MANAGE TO STOP COMPULSIVELY FONDLING YOUR SHAME GLOBES AND WORSHIPPING MORONIC CLOWN GODS FOR TEN SECONDS I HAVE A STORY TO TELL YOU. CG: SOME CALL IT... CG: THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD. If CCD had gone down like that I might still be a practicing Catholic. glowing-fish posted:Which is exactly what Karkat is, of course. He is the character in the work that is as explicitly as possible stated to be a follower and model of Jesus. More than that - as the genetic descendent/clone of the Signless, he is literally the second coming of Troll Christ.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:51
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Not mine, but
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Mar 19, 2013 15:08
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Evil Mastermind posted:Not mine, but That's pretty much perfect. Especially with Karkat as the free space.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:44
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Evil Mastermind posted:Not mine, but edit: this version of KKBingo was flawed, please scroll down for the new version. uranium grass fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 16:44
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Grrl Anachronism posted:I know I'm late to the party, but here's my text version. Ectobiology is on there twice. Or was that intentional?
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Mar 19, 2013 16:51
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Grrl Anachronism posted:I know I'm late to the party, but here's my text version. You're missing Chair! Chair is the rock-steady fundament of Karkat Tantrum Bingo.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:52
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Karkat Bingo corrected.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:00
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Forget Karkat bingo, someone put a backwards baseball cap on him.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:01
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You know, this is probably the first time that Dave, Karkat and Terezi have actually had a three-way conversation. In three years of convoluted love triangle shenanigans.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:20
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krakagar posted:Interesting that we're getting some 'Gamzee is actually a horrible, nasty, vindictive person' stuff now as opposed to 'Gamzee is just this loveable insane clown' stuff that Areana's story was pushing. I'm guessing that he's both. He's had this dual personality thing going for a good while now. There's a harmless lovable juggalo stoner moirail clowndad Gamzee and a crazed murderous hateful Rage-filled LE-servant Gamzee. The fact that one side is docile and the other is destructive (like cherubs) makes me wonder if Doc Scratch or even Lord English himself had a direct role in Gamzee's creation, or at least his upbringing. Gamzee also seems to be blessed with unconditional immortality. So basically LE created his own goofy two-faced immortal clown servant to help execute his will in the trolls' (and now the alpha kids') session and watch over his younger self.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:40
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His immortality isn't unconditional: he has to continue being an awful clown. Actually, I bet Gamzee's death is going to be predicated by somebody getting rid of his facepaint.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:18
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Evil Mastermind posted:Not mine, but It's the unexplained Sonic the Hedgehog that really makes this bingo board soar.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:18
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Cabbit posted:Actually, I bet Gamzee's death is going to be predicated by somebody getting rid of his facepaint.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:26
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I loved Dave's usage of frontways when referring to the chair. Not liking those comments about Gamzee though. I've always held out hope that he would try to redeem himself after killing the beat character in Homestuck, and I still do but... Karkat and Terezi's words make me less hopeful for that.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:33
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Gamzee is pretty much textbook irredeemable. He and Caliborn are some of the few characters in Homestuck who have no perception of right and wrong - if he were to start showing things like guilt, shame, and a desire to make amends or do the right thing it'd butt heads with his characterization as an insane, amoral clown. If anything it's good to hear a little of the nitty gritty reality where he doesn't care about Terezi and will abandon her (and their weird hate-relationship), since he's probably going to bail from the meteor the instant he can without looking back. This scene is neat to see just how much Karkat has mellowed and changed over the years. He's really listening and engaging with Terezi's problems, and little asides like the chair argument or his brief tangent into blaming himself are like vestiges of his old self. And that auspicization comment has me all the more curious to see Rose and Kanaya again. Whatever's going on with them, it's got to be something the way Dave and Karkat have tiptoed around it so far.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:51
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Yeah, Gamzee will never redeem himself. He's too busy being an awful piece of poo poo.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:53
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Dolash posted:And that auspicization comment has me all the more curious to see Rose and Kanaya again. Whatever's going on with them, it's got to be something the way Dave and Karkat have tiptoed around it so far. RosexKanaya is still probably straightforwards romantic, Hussie is just expanding auspicization to have more general use.
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Mar 19, 2013 19:29
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snucks posted:I'm betting it's just the kind of typical thing teens do when they first have someone they really enjoy, ie getting kind of reclusive and weird and seeking too much external validation via their S.O. I think it's less a matter of Hussie changing the rules and more a matter of Karkat exaggerating/reaching for ways to blame himself for Terezi's situation. That didn't stop being a thing Karkat does or anything. Assuming, again, that we're not taking him at his word about literally auspicticizing between Rose and Kanaya after a black turn in their relationship. Which is still in the realm of possibilities.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:03
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Rose DID ask Kanaya to teach her about ALL the quadrants.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:51
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mr. stefan posted:It's the unexplained Sonic the Hedgehog that really makes this bingo board soar. One day Dave alchemized a Sega Genesis. Karkat proceeded to flip his poo poo at the blue bipedal needle beast.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:53
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I assumed Rose's possible alcoholism would be the bigger issue, since emotional dependence and substance dependence go together despairingly well. I guess we shall cross that bridge of misery when we come to it. Speaking of, where are we going next? There might be a little more left in this particular scene, but are we staying on the meteor? Is it finally time to see their arrival in the new session?
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Mar 19, 2013 21:09
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It's been a while since we checked up on our good friends Spades Slick and Ms. Paint. I'm betting we'll see them before the intermission ends.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:11
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I don't know about Gamzee. I mean lets think of what happened before Act 5 ended. We had that moment where Karkat pacified him and that moment was made out to be A Big Deal. It was supposed to be a moment of triumph, where no one had to die to resolve a conflict. It was probably a bigger moment for Karkat than Gamzee and in a way closed Act 5's troll arc. Now jump to Act 6. Everyone is saying what a huge rear end in a top hat Gamzee is. He's helping the villain and may very well be possessed by him to some degree. I don't think Gamzee is going to be redeemed. But I wouldn't be shocked at all if there was a twist where he tried to make things right by double crossing the villain. Whether it will work or not is up in the air (I say it won't) but there's no reason from a story telling perspective to have a character who is explicitly stopped from murdering people turn into a villain again. It would honestly be bad writing for Hussie to make a huge deal of the moment Karkat stopped Gamzee' rampage and then turn around and say "ok and now in Act 6 he's an rear end in a top hat again, KARKAT SUCKS HAHAHA". Color Printer posted:It's been a while since we checked up on our good friends Spades Slick and Ms. Paint. I'm betting we'll see them before the intermission ends. What if the "ultimate weapon" to defeat Lord English is the guy who was the very first in the comic to have an obvious vendetta against Lord English. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 21:20
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Well, the shoosh-pap was still important in that moment because from what we know of Gamzee's combat ability, he'd have killed the trolls just as dead as Bec Noir would have if he wasn't pacified. Also, it led to a clear change in his MO (subtle manipulation of events rather than MURDER MODE), so it was still significant character building even if it meant Gamzee was still an rear end in a top hat. Basically, Karkat's actions at the end of act 5 aren't fundamentally undermined as a narrative event by having been less than 100% successful.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:48
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lotus circle posted:I don't know about Gamzee. I mean lets think of what happened before Act 5 ended. We had that moment where Karkat pacified him and that moment was made out to be A Big Deal. It was supposed to be a moment of triumph, where no one had to die to resolve a conflict. It was probably a bigger moment for Karkat than Gamzee and in a way closed Act 5's troll arc. Now jump to Act 6. Everyone is saying what a huge rear end in a top hat Gamzee is. He's helping the villain and may very well be possessed by him to some degree. Ennhh, I don't know. Like you said, the big moment was Karkat's- that he tried non-violent pacification and it worked (even if only temporarily) is a big step for him and really probably springboarded his current development I'd say. That it didn't stick doesn't retroactively make that scene or Karkat pointless, just like... I dunno pretty much all the exile scenes don't become pointless because they eventually died, right? Besides, Hussie pretty much immediately undermined the shoosh-pap scene with his overwrought description of how Gamzee was calmed down forever and always THE END, like after that was anyone really surprised Gamzee kept on keeping on?
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Mar 19, 2013 22:00
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Bobulus posted:You know, on a re-read, Dave really comes off as an rear end in a top hat here. Karkat's being all understanding and really only throws a tantrum after Dave derails the conversation. I mean, sure, it's funnier for us the audience, but in-story, gently caress off Dave, they're having a moment. And she's getting counseling from two of her exes. There's basically no way that conversation was going to be productive. (In the event, it was hilarious, which is much better.)
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Mar 19, 2013 22:03
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Thundarr posted:Basically, Karkat's actions at the end of act 5 aren't fundamentally undermined as a narrative event by having been less than 100% successful. Adding to that, the shoosh pap is important because it showed that despite all his violent rhetoric Karkat is ultimately against using violence on people he cares about. Even when it was clear Gamzee could kill him and had killed others Karkat forgave and attempted to save Gamzee. Whatever it's final results were it was a very important look into KK's character. Given Jade and Janes' current condition I think it's important to know we have at least one character who would be able to forgive any wrongs they might do and try and save them even in the face of blind aggression. And so the Knight did Pap the Witch and Shoosh the Maid and it was good if slightly awkward.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:37
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Karkat sitting backwards on his chair youth pastor style seriously got me through an otherwise soul-crushing day at work today. Now I remember why I read this comic.Mazerunner posted:Besides, Hussie pretty much immediately undermined the shoosh-pap scene with his overwrought description of how Gamzee was calmed down forever and always THE END, like after that was anyone really surprised Gamzee kept on keeping on? I was pretty surprised, because flowery language or not, we didn't really have any reason to doubt the narrator at that point. Especially after he had just worked so hard to regain control of the story. That said, I'm glad it happened this way, because I remember suggestions that because Karkat's character arc was over, he was basically out of the rest of the story.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:08
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Hey, to be fair, Gamzee hasn't murdered anyone since. All he's done is serve the guy who likes to do all the murdering.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:25
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Pretty sure Gamzee's going to be the one to sacrifice himself to Yaldabrororobibath to get the good ending and stop Caliborn.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:51
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He then proceeds to come back as if nothing happened because clowns.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:58
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WAR FOOT posted:Pretty sure Gamzee's going to be the one to sacrifice himself to Yaldabrororobibath to get the good ending and stop Caliborn. I'm pretty sure that sacrificing a clown, in any situation, will only serve to make things WORSE. That's, like... a reverse sacrifice. Like an insult.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:59
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Gamzee is not evil. I think that he was playing the long game and was only taking the roll of Caliborn's mentor to ultimately bring about his downfall. I've been personally pretty sure of this ever since Hussie said even he wasn't sure about Gamzee's motives. However than I saw this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007886 From that point onwards I was completely 100% sure that Gamzee is a good guy.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:59
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team overhead smash posted:Gamzee is not evil. I think that he was playing the long game and was only taking the roll of Caliborn's mentor to ultimately bring about his downfall. I've been personally pretty sure of this ever since Hussie said even he wasn't sure about Gamzee's motives. Gamzee being a good guy and doing all this horrible stuff and enabling Caliborn in becoming Lord English just so he can set him up to defeat him later would be an exceptionally lovely twist. Probably what bugs me the most is it really pokes at one of the most irritating issues in Homestuck's plot - at what point does predestination run out? Say you're right, Gamzee couldn't just stomp the newborn cherub because Caliborn needs to complete all these time loops and create Lord English. Why do the time loops for Caliborn ever run out? Why doesn't he just keep getting favorable causal outcomes forever, ones that require Gamzee to keep helping him? The story's use of causality can really rob people of agency, especially if they're aware of what they "have" to do, and if Gamzee were to turn around and help defeat Caliborn after doing everything to help him because now destiny leaves him an opening, it's like nothing he ever did was motivated by his own character. It effectively means he's completely self-aware and is only doing what a pre-written plot requires of him.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:06
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Is Gamzeechat the new Vriskachat? Also, my money is on Gamzee working for LE because for things to work out for the best, all the worst stuff has to happen. The kids won't be able to do whatever it is they need to do to break out of the loop of causality without LE rising to power like he has. Also because Gamzee is an inscrutable, capricious rear end in a top hat. Also, I need to get myself an AV.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:13
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I'm taking the view that Gamzee's outlook on life is akin to that of The Comedian from "Watchmen", or even the Joker in a "Dark Knight" world. That it's all pointless, life is just a joke, and he's playing it all out for his own laughs.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:15
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RedMagus posted:I'm taking the view that Gamzee's outlook on life is akin to that of The Comedian from "Watchmen", or even the Joker in a "Dark Knight" world. That it's all pointless, life is just a joke, and he's playing it all out for his own laughs. But why kill the funniest troll, then?
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Mar 20, 2013 01:21
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team overhead smash posted:Gamzee is not evil. I think that he was playing the long game and was only taking the roll of Caliborn's mentor to ultimately bring about his downfall. I've been personally pretty sure of this ever since Hussie said even he wasn't sure about Gamzee's motives. You and me, friend.  You and me.
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Mar 20, 2013 02:00
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