p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

«‹›1784 »

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Jerry SanDisky posted:

i'm looking for a schema, it can't be first normal formu

kawaii?

# ? Mar 20, 2013 23:05

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# ? May 9, 2024 04:17

Unless: Jul 24, 2005; I art

prefect posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Manifesto

these guys will tell you that null should not be used, and when you read their arguments, you end up agreeing with them

but this is just for making you think about databases, as opposed to getting actual poo poo done with real-world products

I'm just burnt out on this post hoc ergo propter hoc cause and effect methodology. I enjoy tinkering, sure, but I need to understand the logic to keep motivated/real.

edit:

this was most expensive, will post trip report after consumption

Unless fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 20, 2013

# ? Mar 20, 2013 23:07

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

i got recommended this but I dunno http://www.amazon.co.uk/Database-Systems-International-Version-Complete/dp/0131354280/

# ? Mar 20, 2013 23:29

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

there should be what amounts to a booklet on schema design out there somewhere, that is in the end the most important bit, the rest tends to be a bit application-dependent and often archaic/useless

# ? Mar 20, 2013 23:38

Unless: Jul 24, 2005; I art

tef posted:

i got recommended this but I dunno http://www.amazon.co.uk/Database-Systems-International-Version-Complete/dp/0131354280/

# ? Mar 20, 2013 23:59

pointers: Sep 4, 2008

jooky posted:

the guy seems to be remorseful and apologetic for his actions, at least.

"i will be more mindful of my audience" is not remorseful and apologetic it is "next time i'll make sure there are no women in earshot"

sigh

# ? Mar 21, 2013 00:45

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

pointers posted:

"i will be more mindful of my audience" is not remorseful and apologetic it is "next time i'll make sure there are no women in earshot"

sigh

yea he better not make a dick joke ever again

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:08

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

pointers posted:

"i will be more mindful of my audience" is not remorseful and apologetic it is "next time i'll make sure there are no women in earshot"

sigh

check your priv

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:14

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

computers

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:24

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

COMPUTERS

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:27

Police Academy III: Nov 4, 2011

tef posted:

COMPUTERS

they suck

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:29

Plastic Snake: Mar 2, 2005; For Halloween or scaring people.

tef posted:

COMPUTERS

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:29

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

tef posted:

COMPUTERS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEX7q5yD3Qw

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:33

skeevy achievements: Feb 25, 2008; by merry exmarx

pointers posted:

"i will be more mindful of my audience" is not remorseful and apologetic it is "next time i'll make sure there are no women in earshot"

sigh

sighin so hard right here

# ? Mar 21, 2013 01:38

jooky: Jan 15, 2003

pointers posted:

"i will be more mindful of my audience" is not remorseful and apologetic it is "next time i'll make sure there are no women in earshot"

sigh

Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale.

As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the drat movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964, investigating the role religion played in the development, acceptance, and perpetuation of the South�s attitudes and behaviors toward race, class, and gender. I get on guys' cases all the time when they're being obliquely and overtly sexist, especially in mixed company. I also point out to women when they're putting up with sexist behavior, because it's so ingrained in our culture that too few even recognize it properly. To say I'm pretty well steeped in both the academic and practical sides of gender politics, identity, and sexism would put it rather mildly.

However, I don't go ape-poo poo and publicly humiliate someone for making a potentially sexist joke among friends, because I have spent years rationally and academically evaluating whether or not someone is actually attempting to propagate bigotry and discriminatory behaviors--and this is the baseline for sexism, not whether or not a person approves of a statement that includes anatomical or sexual content. To reiterate, years of studying gender issues from a historical and philosophical perspective have shown rather conclusively that not everything sex-related is sexist.

The "big dongle" statement was not in any way a 'sexist joke'. It was an anatomical joke, albeit a childish one on the level of potty humor. Anatomy != sexism.

The forking comment, as explained by mr-hank, was not in the slightest bit sexist. Forking is the sincerest form of flattery (short of implementation, that is). People talk about forking repos all the time. I ask people if they've "forked [person's] repo" on the regular. I honestly don't even care if the guy said, "I'd fork his repo" in that typical, suggestive tone-of-voice. Why? Because for all I know as an outsider, the guys having the conversation could be homosexual, and not to put too fine a point on it, but homosexual men have been the victims of some absolutely disgusting and horrific sexism and discrimination (and much worse). Also, homosexual men don't heavily trend toward making lewd comments that are directed at women, especially where dick comments are concerned.

But even beyond trying to keep that consideration in mind, dick jokes or comments that are made between men without any obvious sign that the potentially offending comment is intended to be overheard ought to give everyone pause before sounding the Sexism Alert. Yes, guys talk about dicks at times and in places that are probably not appropriate. Kind of the way children talk about poop and farts and pee at times and in places that are probably not appropriate.

You know what else I hear a fuckton of at times and in places that are not appropriate? Breasts. Penises. Sluts. Periods. Boyfriend issues. Husband problems. Boob jobs. Male celebrity fantasies. 50 loving Shades of Grey. All of these from women. All the time--in offices, conferences, churches, cafes, restaurants, bars ... you name it. You wanna know how frequently I hear women talk about breasts (theirs or someone else's), or periods (theirs or someone else's), or the ways in which [insert body part] is changing during pregnancy, or how hot [insert attractive male celebrity] is, or how juicy 50 Shades is? It's everywhere.
Moreover, I can't even count the number of times I am in professional meetings with clients and notice [mostly younger] women adjusting their bras right in the middle of the meeting. Hey, I know those things get drat uncomfortable, ladies, but it also gets uncomfortable sitting through a meeting for two hours, crossing and uncrossing my legs to give my dick some space to not be a total pain just for existing between my legs. And guess what I never do? Adjust in the presence of women. Ever.

And to be perfectly transparent, I usually ignore it all. I'm one who pretty much defaults to giving women a pass because of all the stupid poo poo they've dealt with over a long history of men being complete assholes. I mean, really. A woman could make the most sexist comment I've ever heard and I'd just give it a shrug; but I'd say poo poo to a man if he was even obliquely offensive.

And yet, on this one, sounding the alarm was wrong. This wasn't sexism. Inappropriate? Sure, I'll grant Adria that. There were way too many people surrounding the exchange that it would have been better to not make the dongle comment--especially given that there was a woman in close proximity (and that's not a sly way of suggesting they should have made the comment if a woman was not in close proximity). It was an improper forum for such a comment. But to turn around and smile and take a picture, post it to Twitter, and then continue on calling oneself Joan of Arc? Christ, that is beyond the pale.

Just as the men who made the childish dongle comment agreed to a Code of Conduct, so did Adria. And just as she wanted them to abide by the Code, so should she have. I don't recall there being anything in the Code of Conduct that said one had the option to A) inform conference staff, or B) post a person's picture to Twitter if they say something you don't want to hear.
[edit: spelling errors & wording]

jooky fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Mar 21, 2013

# ? Mar 21, 2013 03:09

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Today I spent all day trying to wiggle a pin that could not be wiggled. THANKS TI for having lovely documentation.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 03:15

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

TI sucks

# ? Mar 21, 2013 03:15

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Checked exceptions are a good thing. Ms didnt put checked exceptions in c# because they cater to bad and careless programmers i.e. the kind of programmers who dislike checked exceptions. Otoh everyone works with at least one bad and careless programmer making checked exceptions a good idea with no useful application

Iow java is too good for this world

# ? Mar 21, 2013 04:23

pointers: Sep 4, 2008

tef posted:

COMPUTERS

BITS N' BYTES

# ? Mar 21, 2013 04:31

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

pointers posted:

BITS N' BYTES

I prefer to take nibbles.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 06:08

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Nomnom Cookie posted:

Checked exceptions are a good thing. Ms didnt put checked exceptions in c# because they cater to bad and careless programmers i.e. the kind of programmers who dislike checked exceptions. Otoh everyone works with at least one bad and careless programmer making checked exceptions a good idea with no useful application

Iow java is too good for this world

lol

# ? Mar 21, 2013 07:37

Shameproof: Mar 23, 2011

*java climbs in ship, sheds one tear, sets sails westward*

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:02

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

lua's crazy behavior of quietly returning nil for undefined variables was brought up on the mailing list and responses were "you're programming too fast" and "just get used to it so that it rarely happens"

people write static analyzers just to check for typos lol

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:21

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

btw aren't epic and id using c++ as a scripting language now

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:22

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Toady posted:

btw aren't epic and id using c++ as a scripting language now

id came to the conclusion that if you are writing a program, you should know how to program

getting people who can't program to write game logic is an easy way to get a whole bunch of terrible code that the developers have to fix anyhow.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:24

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

so now they write their logic in the same language as they write the engine, rather than bolting on a new language

also carmack now loves static analysis since the tools have grown up

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:25

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

yeah i saw carmacks's talk but i'm curious about the particulars. custom compilers? is it full c++?

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:40

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

looking around, it seems there really isn't any info

lots more c/c++-like statically typed scripting languages out there than i realized though

# ? Mar 21, 2013 08:56

FamDav: Mar 29, 2008

Toady posted:

looking around, it seems there really isn't any info

lots more c/c++-like statically typed scripting languages out there than i realized though

wrt interpreted c++, i think the only interpreters with decent support for c++ are cint and ch but feel free to correct me on that.

just write your game logic in haskell

# ? Mar 21, 2013 09:30

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Toady posted:

btw aren't epic and id using c++ as a scripting language now

c# scripting: a good idea, or something that should be avoided?

http://www.csscript.net/

# ? Mar 21, 2013 10:37

spongeh: Mar 22, 2009; BREADAGRAM OF PROTECTION

Toady posted:

btw aren't epic and id using c++ as a scripting language now

Unreal has been pushing their visual kismet language thing more and more and UE4 pushes out even more in this direction. im not sure if ue4 supports unreal script proper based on what ive read but someone else prob knows better.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 12:54

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

Toady posted:

btw aren't epic and id using c++ as a scripting language now

would be pretty surprised if epic is, since sweeney is a bit of a pl fetishist. if you legit hasn't seen it before he gave a p. interesting talk on it a number of years ago: http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf (p. popular since he thinks haskell is close to a solution, arousing pl spergs everywhere)

id was always kind of that way though, with a c-alike in quake and dropping that for just straight c in quake 2.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 12:58

Max Facetime: Apr 18, 2009

Vanadium posted:

boost's exception library is the best, c++ exceptions own, etc

loooooooooooool, let me dance around in this minefield of abort(), unexpected() and terminate() calls

I want a version of java where every exception is a checked exception.

every. single. one.

that should be fun

# ? Mar 21, 2013 13:13

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

would be pretty surprised if epic is, since sweeney is a bit of a pl fetishist. if you legit hasn't seen it before he gave a p. interesting talk on it a number of years ago: http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf (p. popular since he thinks haskell is close to a solution, arousing pl spergs everywhere)

id was always kind of that way though, with a c-alike in quake and dropping that for just straight c in quake 2.

whoa havent seen comic sans in forever

# ? Mar 21, 2013 13:34

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Cocoa Crispies posted:

okay, on the table, what are you working on and why do you need base-2 math?

A wireless sensor device with a fair bit of fixed-point math code in its firmware

bitch

:c00l:

poo poo any sort of embedded work needs a lot of bit manipulation. Computer graphics, data compression, encryption, VMs or script interpreters for your lovely p-langs, there's a whole world out there beyond database skins.

or ok how about that clusterfuck with Scala and Facebook's Android app. A precious p-lang snowflake says "oh yay fewer keystrokes! :downs:

let's go blog about this wonderful discovery", somebody who actually knows what the gently caress is going on says "hmm, that's interesting, this language looks cool but I wonder how the type systems and semantics map to those of the JVM?" and then looks at the implementation details, actually understands what he sees and says "oh god :gonk:

".

and then sees that loving trainwreck coming from a mile away instead of spending god knows how many person hours getting mired in some horrible tar pit

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 21, 2013

# ? Mar 21, 2013 14:25

zokie: Feb 13, 2006; Out of many, Sweden

Shaggar posted:

"I like functional programming because functions are black boxes!! if you want to figure out what exceptions my function will throw, read the function!!"

code:

    /// <summary>
    /// Initializes a new instance of the <see cref="T:Zokie.Buttz.ButtMaker"/> class.
    /// </summary>
    /// <param name="size">The size of the butt.</param><param name="color">The color of the poop.</param>
    ///<exception cref="T:System.ArgumentException"><paramref name="size"/> is negative or null.
    ///</exception>
    ///<exception cref="T:System.ArgumentException"><paramref name="color"/> is not Brown</exception>

If only there was a way to document stuff.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 14:29

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

yeah ur gonna rely on human documentation from the laziest programmers to tell what that function does. that should work out well for you.

# ? Mar 21, 2013 14:31

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

loving hell if the compiler can tell you that an exception will be thrown just have it show that in the IDE as a warning and then you can decide to handle it or not

exceptions are poo and piss

# ? Mar 21, 2013 14:34

zokie: Feb 13, 2006; Out of many, Sweden

Carthag posted:

loving hell if the compiler can tell you that an exception will be thrown just have it show that in the IDE as a warning and then you can decide to handle it or not

exceptions are poo and piss

i loving love resharper!

# ? Mar 21, 2013 14:37

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# ? May 9, 2024 04:17

Toady: Jan 12, 2009

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

would be pretty surprised if epic is, since sweeney is a bit of a pl fetishist. if you legit hasn't seen it before he gave a p. interesting talk on it a number of years ago: http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/edu/seminare/2005/advanced-fp/docs/sweeny.pdf (p. popular since he thinks haskell is close to a solution, arousing pl spergs everywhere)

id was always kind of that way though, with a c-alike in quake and dropping that for just straight c in quake 2.

ue4 uses kismet and c++ for extensibility. iirc from the video that was shown, you can edit c++ live and see its effects immediately in the editor's 3d view

# ? Mar 21, 2013 16:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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