|
Made it to lodge. Not my normal one, though. A Phillipino lodge. Well not officially, but like, 80% of the membership is from the Philippines and they just voted on two more. drat is the food good. On the sad side Yancey C. Blalock lodge will be closing down. They just cant afford the property anymore. They have new locations lined up, but still.
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 11:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
I've got a question on what's permissable in terms of learning my EA information. Not sure if someone is willing to answer over PM, or if its ok to ask in here. I'm still waiting on a mentor, so I'm not sure who else to ask. For a little content, I found it odd that at the night of the last meeting, I was being told about each step and the time in between to learn while 2 people were turning in petitions to be read so they could be voted on in time for them to attend the 1 day Grand Master's class, where they'll run through all 3 plus SR 4th degree in one day. I got the feeling that it is kind of looked down on to so it that way, and promised myself I'd do it the "right" way, so even if they'd ask I wouldn't go. It just confused me to see such a difference within one lodge on that. I'm pretty sure I'm going to self impose a 1 year wait on myself between MM and any appendant bodies. And as a follow up to my post-EA report, I found out that one of the participants that night, who was one of the first people I met in the lodge, is getting his 33rd degree later this year. Kind of humbling to realize that someone that involved and honored by others will come to Lodge to help with a new brother's iniation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 15:23
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:Add a P pillar and everything will become clear to you. I'm really not sure what this means. Is this something from one of the non-blue degrees? I don't recognize it from anything up through Master Mason.
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
Ari posted:I'm really not sure what this means. Is this something from one of the non-blue degrees? I don't recognize it from anything up through Master Mason. You have B&J pillars. Ad a P pillar. Now you have PB&J. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2013 21:43
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:You have B&J pillars. Ad a P pillar. Now you have PB&J. PB&J the three great ingredients of sandwich-Masonry: for as you have already been informed that you need Peanut butter to bind, Jelly to augment, and Bread to establish all great and wonderful sandwiches.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 02:22
|
|
|
Lovable Luciferian posted:PB&J the three great ingredients of sandwich-Masonry: for as you have already been informed that you need Peanut butter to bind, Jelly to augment, and Bread to establish all great and wonderful sandwiches. I'm looking for the "like" button but not finding it. This is pretty much the best Masonic lesson. I'm watching a dumb thing about Secret Societies on NetFlix with David Icke and it's so amazing. Soooo amazing. And they aren't even talking about the Reptilian Lizardpeople yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 02:27
|
|
|
Lovable Luciferian posted:PB&J the three great ingredients of sandwich-Masonry: for as you have already been informed that you need Peanut butter to bind, Jelly to augment, and Bread to establish all great and wonderful sandwiches. Well gently caress, I guess I am going to get a masonic tattoo after all... 
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 03:29
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:I'm looking for the "like" button but not finding it. This is pretty much the best Masonic lesson. Yeah, I saw a show on History the other day about some church-type-structure in NE America that PROVES BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that the Templars were in fact the first to discover America, built a lot of churches, and worshiped Venus 
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 13:25
|
|
|
lone77wulf posted:I've got a question on what's permissable in terms of learning my EA information. Not sure if someone is willing to answer over PM, or if its ok to ask in here. I'm still waiting on a mentor, so I'm not sure who else to ask. Personally, I would say don't try to learn anything extra about the process besides what they tell you. It keeps it more interesting that way. As for 1 day sessions, it's not something I'd prefer to do, but to each his own. It was common during WW2, and in places where it's hard to get enough people together on a regular basis to get all 3 degrees done in a timely manner. I assisted in performing a Masonic Funeral last week for a Brother who was raised in a 1 day thing while he was in the Merchant Marine in 1945. He was well regarded in the community and the Lodge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 15:28
|
|
|
lone77wulf posted:For a little content, I found it odd that at the night of the last meeting, I was being told about each step and the time in between to learn while 2 people were turning in petitions to be read so they could be voted on in time for them to attend the 1 day Grand Master's class, where they'll run through all 3 plus SR 4th degree in one day. I got the feeling that it is kind of looked down on to so it that way, and promised myself I'd do it the "right" way, so even if they'd ask I wouldn't go. It just confused me to see such a difference within one lodge on that. I'm pretty sure I'm going to self impose a 1 year wait on myself between MM and any appendant bodies. I don't like the all the way in one day classes being done as a routine matter, but I do see their value in extenuating circumstances. That said, i'd prefer that they weren't done for the sake of convenience or expedience. I've seen this topic become pretty contentious when brought up; those opposed to the 1 day classes see it as cheapening the masonic experience, while the Brother's that have gone through resent what they feel to be an attempt to label them as second class masons or put an * on their record. To be fair, being able to recite a catechism and show some patience doesn't make someone a good Mason. I do think it helps someone internalize the lessons of the degrees, build a friendship with their mentor and prepare to take part in the degree work or be an officer. I certainly find the process of mentoring or coaching someone through the proficiency requirements to be rewarding, in much the same way that I don't get tired of participating in or watching the degree work - I'm always either discovering some new insight or being reminded of some valuable bit of knowledge. Everyone comes to the lodge for different reasons though - I place a lot of importance on ritual work because I feel its one of the things that really differentiates masonry from other fraternities, service organizations and charities. Because of this I feel there's a lot of value in sticking to tradition and doing things like proficiency work and degree conferral in a conservative manner. Other Brothers have different priorities and focuses within the organization, which is as it should be. Though I do get sick of people complaining about the memorization being hard work. I know it doesn't play to everyone's strength, but it certainly isn't impossible. I often get the feeling that the drive to relax standards is borne out of a fear that we'll lose even a single person as a member because the memory work is difficult. Kudos for deciding to wait before joining any appendant bodies, take your time, get to know the Blue Lodge and decide if Masonry is really something you want to participate in. I haven't joined any because I've found that I really love Blue Lodge and don't want to join another body unless I can devote the same kind of attention and energy to it, which I can't at this point in my life.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 16:46
|
|
|
I think there are probably two camps when it comes to why someone is against the one day class. The first camp are those members that feel individuals going through a one day class aren't receiving the full experience of becoming a Mason. I would agree with that sentiment, however, I would suggest that they consider helping these new brethren by getting them involved in the ritual and memory work (if they are interested). The second camp are those members that feel that people join via a one day class to get their dues card and never show up again or are doing it just to join the Shrine or SR. I would also agree that sometimes this is the case. Even so, I cannot count the number of times that I have seen someone progress via the traditional route and the second that they have their dues card, they never show up again. The biggest issue (as I see it) with the one day class is the lack of one on one attention that many of these new brethren receive. If they are not made to feel welcome at their lodge by the officers and members, it stands to reason that many of them will never come back. A lodge should take interest in them immediately (maybe even more so than traditional candidates) and see what they can do to get them coming back to lodge on a regular basis. Perhaps they are extremely interested in learning the ritual after they see it in a one day class, but have no idea who to ask, or are afraid to approach someone. Maybe they would be interested in being an exemplar, or going through the ritual a second time but odds are they would have no idea that this is even a possibility. I became a Freemason during a one day class when I was 19. The current WM of my lodge took an interest in me and offered to teach me the EA proficiency and lecture, which I was very interested in learning and I took him up on it. Through that interest I also got into the officer line and progressed up to SD in two years. I highly doubt that I would've become as involved as I did if he didn't take some interest in me. Long story short, take an interest in members of a one day class and try to get them involved. If you are a member yourself or you are considering joining the non-traditional way, your experience is largely what you make it, so if they don't seek you out... seek them out. Straithate fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Mar 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 17:15
|
|
|
My thoughts on one day classes are similar to the above. At my mother lodge in Ohio I know they are a bit controversial, to put it lightly. Essentially, it's seen there as a cash grab by the Grand Lodge. More problematic, there are claims that the investigations and so on are waived, or that members are made Masons by the Grand Lodge without adequate screening. If that's true, then perhaps it's an accurate perception, but I've seen no evidence of the same. I also see talk about it "cheapening" the degrees. This largely depends, I believe. If it is a single person being put through the degrees in one day, that's no problem. I do feel that the mass production method where they basically slide-show the men through everything but the obligation is less involved and so tangibly different and yes, perhaps "cheaper" than having the guy in the thick of things. I think that suspense, uncertainty, even fear and confusion are important parts of the initiatic experience in general and while I don't support "hazing" or shenanigans during degrees, I do feel like it should be an ordeal of sorts. I have known two brothers who went through one day classes. One of them was the Junior Deacon at my mother lodge while I was there. He had been put through in a one day class from the Grand Lodge but was terribly inactive after that. He eventually decided to come back for more and we started him through the chairs. He was at a disadvantage for a while because he didn't know what the degrees looked like properly, but he did fine in office and was a good Mason. The second brother is the Tyler of my current lodge. He was made a Mason in one day because he was deploying in the military, which is not historically uncommon. Much to his credit, when he came home he attended the catechism classes and gave back his work along with a group of new Masons going through the degrees. I think that is an awesome sign of devotion to the craft. He did so quite well, but he had to show his own initiative and ask to be able to do it that way. I would recommend to most men to do it the old fashioned way, unless there are exigent circumstances that indicate doing it in a day. Ultimately though I don't mind it, a Mason is not made on a piece of paper in a wallet. Do whatever works.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 17:30
|
|
|
Straithate posted:Long story short, take an interest in members of a one day class and try to get them involved. If you are a member yourself or you are considering joining the non-traditional way, your experience is largely what you make it, so if they don't seek you out... seek them out. Seconded, and thanks to Straithate and Paramemetic for well reasoned posts. I agree that lodges need to do more to involve new members, no matter how they come to the lodge. Keeping long time members involved is also a challenge, and there isn't an easy way to do either. I do see the traditional degree process, when well done, as furthering this goal, particularly the opportunity for a candidate to develop a friendship with their coach, which should hopefully also help them develop ties to other lodge members. I see the process of conferring the degrees in the traditional manner in a similar light, as it provides an activity the members of the lodge must work on as a team, and hopefully encourages a sense of camaraderie. I'll admit that I was venting some frustration over the proficiency process; we have a small number of brothers willing to serve as mentors, relative to the number of candidates applying. I also see a generational divide at work - in general older candidates and brothers seem to really dislike to the proficiency process, while the younger ones enjoy it and seek it out. This might not be a universal phenomena. I do worry that the people will burn out on mentoring and degree work if it is always the same folks doing the work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 18:45
|
|
|
Glorified Scrivener posted:in general older candidates and brothers seem to really dislike to the proficiency process, while the younger ones enjoy it and seek it out. It can be really difficult for older adults to memorize something new and when you first start off, everything is very intimidating to boot. On top of those two factors, they also have to learn how to read the cipher and then in some jurisdictions they don't even use one... Not to mention but, being out of an environment such as school for a very long time seems to further diminish ones ability to memorize.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 19:50
|
|
|
What do you guys know about the Independent Order of Odd Fellows? It seems to be similar to Masonry, but more focused on philanthropy. The symbolism looks... very similar, although a bit more colorful.  Wait do you get to wear funny costumes like hats or fezzes or aprons or Mexican general caps at meetings?  I don't know if it would be for me if not.
Count Thrashula fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Mar 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 21:53
|
|
|
Ari posted:Switch the accented syllables on both. The B pillar is accented on the first syllable, and the J pillar is accented on the second syllable. The source for this is that I speak, read, and write Hebrew. By the way, fixed. I had assumed that bo- was a prefix like mi- or l-. תודה, אחי !
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2013 22:29
|
|
|
QPZIL posted:What do you guys know about the Independent Order of Odd Fellows? It seems to be similar to Masonry, but more focused on philanthropy. I'm in both. IOOF is very similar to Masonry but not in a "Hey, you're ripping us off!" way. IOOF was hit much harder by the generational downturn in interest in fraternal societies. IOOF was once larger than Masonry in the states, back when societies such as ours really sort of functioned as health/etc/burial insurance. The biggest change in the last twenty years was IOOF started allowing women as full members. Plenty of old fogies were grumpy about it at the time, but there was no mass exodus of membership. Not that at this point we have enough membership to ever really qualify anything as a mass exodus I guess. When I joined I went through a one-day class, and did not have any option to do otherwise. To say it cheapened the experience is to say the least. I don't think the initiation rituals of either body should be cheapened, and we already have enough problems getting together proficient ritual teams to provide a good experience when we are trying (or so has been my impression everywhere I've traveled). When the initiation rituals seem like a cheap parlour show, and not something important and valuable that should be studied, what's the surprise when people don't value it and study it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 00:00
|
|
|
On May 15th, the Great Priory of England is going to vote to withdraw recognition ofg the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States. Ouch. edit-- Also, just gonna throw this in there: the Grand Secretary of the Great Priory of Scotland's name is Pringle Johnstone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 13:44
|
|
|
QPZIL posted:On May 15th, the Great Priory of England is going to vote to withdraw recognition ofg the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States. Ouch. Why are they doing this?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 14:39
|
|
|
lord1234 posted:Why are they doing this? I don't have an exact answer, but my guess is "wah, wah, the Americans are ripping off our ancient order of dress-up knights  "But really, I don't mean offence there - in my opinion, we're all brethren and should act as such. I don't think this rift should be happening at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 14:59
|
|
|
QPZIL posted:I don't have an exact answer, but my guess is "wah, wah, the Americans are ripping off our ancient order of dress-up knights Not likely. Chances are good this has to do with the Grand Encampment's actions surrounding and involving the troubles with the CBCS (Chevaliers Bienfaisants de la Cité Sainte, or Knights Beneficent of the Holy City) organization semi-within York Rite Masonry. In essence, there exists an organization in the US called the Grand Priory of America, CBCS (formally Grand Priory of the Reformed and Rectified Rite of the United States of America, CBCS) since 1934 with a charter to work from CBCS Switzerland. This organization is invitation only and has by charter no more than 81 members total even allowed. Nevertheless, Grand Encampment got in a spat with them over whether they have the right to confer Templar degrees, since they were chartered by another recognized Templar body. As a result, Grand Priory of America basically said "we don't do degrees, we're just a social club," despite having a charter from a Templar body entitling them to perform the Rectified Rite degrees. And so it stayed as a social club until 2009 when some American brothers received the degrees of the Rectified Rite that the GPA had the authority to issue (but claimed not to) in the UK, and so they called out the UK Grand Encampment for jurisdictional shenanigans. This caused the US Grand Encampment to call out the GPA for conferring degrees, and withdraw recognition of the Swiss-chartered GPA. Then the French showed up. The French Grand Prieure Ecossais Reforme et Rectifie d'Occitanie granted a charter to the Grand Encampment USA to establish under their own umbrella the "Grand Priory of the Reformed and Rectified Rite of the USA." The issue? The French Grand Priory was formed by Masons under the Grand Loge Nationale Française, which is clandestine. There's been some other drama with Grand Lodges in the US withdrawing recognition from the newly formed GPA CBCS under that French charter because of an incident where a Grand Master visiting a Grand Communication for another Grand Lodge told the Grand Master of his own jurisdiction that if he didn't bar a member who was part of the Rectified Rite from attending his own communication that they would withdraw recognition. This prompted the Commission on Recognition to start decreeing appendant bodies irregular, which doesn't even make sense. But yeah, my guess is that Grand Encampment UK is proposing to withdraw recognition from Grand Encampment USA because at least one part of Grand Encampment USA (the part conferring Rectified Rite degrees) is operating under a charter from a Grand Priory composed of clandestine Masons. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 16:05
|
|
|
Oh, uh, wow. Thanks for the actual explanation, I would have never known that stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
I sometimes think we all need a chart to work out who is regular and who isn't, and who we're allowed to talk to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 13:22
|
|
|
I can't quote or respond to your post until I see you dues card, sorry. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
I think we are allowed to talk to anyone, just not go into masonic details. Anyway, was raised yesterday and now I can call myself MM. That was something different entirely, I must say.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 13:43
|
|
|
Keetron posted:I think we are allowed to talk to anyone, just not go into masonic details. I know, I was just joking  Congratulations Brother, it's an experience you'll never forget. I know personally it took me a few days to process and really appreciate everything I went through.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 13:50
|
|
|
Keetron posted:I think we are allowed to talk to anyone, just not go into masonic details. Congrats Brother. Glad to see you survived the journey. We're raising a Brother tonight, I love doing these things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 14:02
|
|
|
Am I the only Mason in the history of the fraternity that finds degrees boring as hell at this point?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 16:11
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:Am I the only Mason in the history of the fraternity that finds degrees boring as hell at this point? Nah, half the old folks in my lodge sleep through them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 16:13
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:Am I the only Mason in the history of the fraternity that finds degrees boring as hell at this point? Probably, although I hate that my lodge does 3 to 4 brothers at a time. Mostly because it wears out the goat.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 16:13
|
|
|
WAFFLEHOUND posted:Am I the only Mason in the history of the fraternity that finds degrees boring as hell at this point? Probably has to do with that I've only been doing it for a couple years and I like any excuse to have a Lodge night. They're basically my only nights out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 16:43
|
|
|
After giving the lectures almost weekly for a few years now, I'm admittedly over some of the ceremony inherent therein, but I still love hearing how different people give the various lectures, and how they deliver their lines. I think there's something exciting in every degree, even if at this point it isn't necessarily the ritual itself -- for the first degree I love seeing the candidates and sharing that first step with them. For the second degree I'm a huge fan of the Senior Deacon's work, and who doesn't like being a part of the third degree? While some of the ceremony and ritual has become less special due to repetition, endless study, and performance as I moved through the chairs, I think the most meaningful and important aspect to me is the connection with the candidate and the other brothers who have come together to make his night special.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 17:03
|
|
|
Keetron posted:Anyway, was raised yesterday and now I can call myself MM. That was something different entirely, I must say. Congratulations. WAFFLEHOUND posted:Am I the only Mason in the history of the fraternity that finds degrees boring as hell at this point? Nah, but for me the degree work makes up for taking meeting minutes. As FreshFeesh has said, some of the work becomes less exciting the more often I take part in it, but the fact that we're doing it for a fresh audience every time and taking part in the continuation of tradition usually more than makes up for it. On an unrelated note, we usually go out for a pint after our meetings if they get out early enough, generally to the same bar. So last night we had a drunk guy sit down at our table wanting to know if we'd "closed a million dollar business deal." as he apparently couldn't think of any other reason for someone in this town to be wearing a suit and tie. We told him the truth, which led to a polite, if somewhat lopsided, conversation - the only points of reference he had for the craft were Dan Brown novels and Shriners and he wasn't really sober enough that any of us wanted to have a lengthy conversation with him. He didn't accuse us of being devil worshipers though, so I guess the public image of the craft is improving.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 17:39
|
|
|
Glorified Scrivener posted:On an unrelated note, we usually go out for a pint after our meetings if they get out early enough, generally to the same bar. So last night we had a drunk guy sit down at our table wanting to know if we'd "closed a million dollar business deal." as he apparently couldn't think of any other reason for someone in this town to be wearing a suit and tie. All I remember was "Masons? You guys are into some old-school poo poo, eh?"  Thus was my first encounter with the curious public as a Mason. Could have been worse/funnier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 17:53
|
|
|
Tonight I meet a former Masonic Grand Master of Ontario and the other guys from a local lodge that a friend is a member of. Hope this goes well
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 21:46
|
|
|
Had the PGM sign my application and turned it in. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
Congrats! I wonder if making a Mason "at sight" is an ability retained by PGMs or if that's an ability reserved for the sitting GM only. It's very likely jurisdictional. I should pull out the CMC (California Masonic Code) and see CA's take on it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 01:59
|
|
|
I know the one-day classes aren't allowed in Texas, but special permission can be granted by the GM to do all three degrees in one day for situations such as someone getting ready to ship out overseas for the military.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 05:06
|
|
|
FreshFeesh posted:I wonder if making a Mason "at sight" is an ability retained by PGMs or if that's an ability reserved for the sitting GM only. It's very likely jurisdictional. At least that is how it was explained to me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:51 |
|
|
As I recall (still haven't checked the CMC), what the power constitutes in this jurisdiction is that the GM can say "this man has passed all of his investigations and now belongs to your Lodge, schedule the initiation," circumventing the enforced committee check, waiting periods, and application reading. He at that point is the same as any other applicant who has been elected to take the degrees but hasn't yet received his Initiation
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 07:20
|
|