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MrChips posted:The Panamera is packaged in such a way that the drivetrain impinges on the cabin quite a bit; there was no way it could ever have been a five-seater. Beyond that, the Chinese use cars like this as limos and would rather not have the middle seat. You Am I posted:Most S Classes had four seater options for a few models now. You can still get five seat in S Class Cool, thanks for the info.
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Mar 20, 2013 06:59
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oRenj9 posted:That picture is a little deceiving; putting a B5 into service mode is pretty straight-forward and only takes 30-45 minutes (probably much less with experience) and the benefit is that you have all the room that you need to work. I'd rather do a timing belt job on a Passat than a Jetta. The picture isnt that deceiving... Its also scary as gently caress having to take all that apart to get access to the front of the motor.
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Mar 20, 2013 07:00
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I spotted another Alfa near Chrysler HQ on my way to school this morning, no pictures unfortunately, but this is the 5th one I've seen in the last two months... I'm really hoping that they're planning on bringing them back (if this has already been announced then  )
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Mar 20, 2013 13:56
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According to the Subaru Insider newsletter, Subaru is going to debut a hybrid XV Crosstek at the New York autoshow on the 28th. Hopefully they'll share that tech with other models.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:42
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Well, I guess there goes my hope about seeing a new WRX at the NYIAS. edit: scratch that http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/ny-auto-show-preview-subaru-to-unveil-first-production-hybrid-and-performance-concept-car/ Apparently maybe there still is hope? nutnmunch fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 20:46
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Tusen Takk posted:I spotted another Alfa near Chrysler HQ on my way to school this morning, no pictures unfortunately, but this is the 5th one I've seen in the last two months... I'm really hoping that they're planning on bringing them back (if this has already been announced then The best part about working in Troy is seeing so many manufacturer cars. I saw an Alfa 4C ~2 months ago, and saw a Chevrolet SS two days ago, not to mention countless Jeeps.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:52
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Sole Survivor posted:The best part about working in Troy is seeing so many manufacturer cars. I saw an Alfa 4C ~2 months ago, and saw a Chevrolet SS two days ago, not to mention countless Jeeps.   Small world! I used to live right by the Noodles & Company on Crooks. I saw an SS at the Kohls on Coolidge and I always see fancy Italian cars cruising around B-ham and West Troy  Have you seen the ugly Jeepling in person yet?! 
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Mar 20, 2013 21:02
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Tusen Takk posted:
If you saw the SS recently, I actually talked to the guys who were driving it around, nice Australian guys, though they couldn't really tell me anything more about the car. No I haven't seen the new Cherokee yet, I really hope that it'll look a bit better in person, although I really doubt it.
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Mar 20, 2013 21:15
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nutnmunch posted:Well, I guess there goes my hope about seeing a new WRX at the NYIAS. Wasn't Subaru going to make the WRX its own nameplate, like what Nissan did with the GT-R?
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Mar 20, 2013 22:27
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CharlesM posted:According to the Subaru Insider newsletter, Subaru is going to debut a hybrid XV Crosstek at the New York autoshow on the 28th. Hopefully they'll share that tech with other models. Holy poo poo NO! No more loving hybrid blights infecting Subaru please
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Mar 20, 2013 23:24
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Cat Terrist posted:Holy poo poo NO! No more loving hybrid blights infecting Subaru please It's too late man, Toyota has tainted them. The allure of higher sales is too great. Vocal as AI-types can be, we don't count for poo poo on balance sheets. Hope you like every single car they make somehow ending up looking like a mini-SUV and driving like one too.
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Mar 20, 2013 23:31
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Where is the electric motor gonna go on a boxer? Pack it all into the transaxle like the 918 does it? http://www.cnet.com.au/porsche-918-spyder-v8-plug-in-hybrid_p6-339301440.htm#image5
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Mar 21, 2013 05:09
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Same way any of the RWD hrbrids do? Subaru uses Nissan transmissions so I imagine it's probably the same way the Nissan RWD hybrids will will work. 
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Mar 21, 2013 05:23
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I figured it'd be harder since packaging considerations are already made for the front diff and axles. Maybe Subaru hired some Audi engineers to see what they could do about getting the motor to stick out further.
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Mar 21, 2013 07:51
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Sudo Echo posted:It's too late man, Toyota has tainted them. The allure of higher sales is too great. Vocal as AI-types can be, we don't count for poo poo on balance sheets. Hope you like every single car they make somehow ending up looking like a mini-SUV and driving like one too. I know - but AI types MADE Subaru what it is today by being the ones who fanatically bought their cars. How many do I and the family have? We all but one bought these cars new. It's insane Subaru are abandoning their most feral loyal repeat customers - we're not alone in that view, not by a long shot. Chasing the mass market doesnt work when you built your buyer base on being different (and better)
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Mar 21, 2013 07:57
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Actually, I'm pretty sure yuppie types looking for a small car to take their kids to soccer practice made Subaru what it is. This is more in line with what they were selling before Colin McRae and Gran Turismo made the WRX A Thing. That being different and better part? That appeals to trendy idiots far more than enthusiasts.
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Mar 21, 2013 09:35
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The WRX was a thing in Australia years before Gran Turismo (and the Legacy RS years before that)
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Mar 21, 2013 09:50
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VikingSkull posted:Actually, I'm pretty sure yuppie types looking for a small car to take their kids to soccer practice made Subaru what it is. This is more in line with what they were selling before Colin McRae and Gran Turismo made the WRX A Thing. That being different and better part? That appeals to trendy idiots far more than enthusiasts. Nope, that's not true at all. Subarus were quirky and they were in serious trouble until the turbo charged Liberty RS and the WRX saved their asses in the early 90's. Then they had the money to pull off the first gen Forester and the Outback, which were so goddamn far ahead of their competitors in dynamics it wasnt funny. Just because the USA was late to the Subaru party doesnt mean it gets to re-write how Subaru got to where it was - Australia was for a long time a much bigger market to Subaru than the USA was and that time was when Subaru got not just quirky but good. Even now Australia is still a big Subaru market, out of proportion of the other car makers. The WRX was A Thing in the mid 90's before it even looked like it was going to arrive in the USA. Know how it got to be a Thing? Aussie ram raiders. They became that car company that made rally cars for the road that couldnt be caught by the cops. Sales of the WRX exploded overnight. Your thought that Subaru's different and better bit is wrong. Subaru were for enthusists long before yuppies got hold of them and that's the way we liked it before they got soft cocked in the last few years. Why do you think so many people that actually like cars had or have an older Subaru?
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Mar 21, 2013 10:37
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US didn't get any performance Subaru models until it was already established as a reliable, rugged and safe vehicle, that does very well in the snow and ice. People who buy 99% of it's lineup don't give a poo poo about Collin McRae, ram riders or Gran Turismo. There is data for this, why is anyone even arguing about it?
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Mar 21, 2013 15:49
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fknlo posted:Doesn't one of the old Passat models have some sensor that likes to fail that requires you to drop the engine?
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Mar 21, 2013 15:55
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Sudo Echo posted:It's too late man, Toyota has tainted them. The allure of higher sales is too great. Vocal as AI-types can be, we don't count for poo poo on balance sheets. Hope you like every single car they make somehow ending up looking like a mini-SUV and driving like one too. Hybrids are very appealing to SOA's largest market demographic as well - they will totally eat them up, especially a hybrid Outback. Might even win over some Prius sales here in the PacNW, where both Subarus and Prii are insanely popular.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:15
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Nitrox posted:US didn't get any performance Subaru models until it was already established as a reliable, rugged and safe vehicle, that does very well in the snow and ice. People who buy 99% of it's lineup don't give a poo poo about Collin McRae, ram riders or Gran Turismo. There is data for this, why is anyone even arguing about it? Exactly. Subaru's market has always been those who need to go in all conditions but don't want a truck or SUV. I'm not sure you can argue that a certain model that barely accounted for 10% of sales on a good year 'saved' the brand. The Crosstrek is more Subaru from an american perspective than most of the stuff they've been putting out in the past 10 years and there's zero delusions that Subaru's marketshare is hurt by their middling to low fuel economy. A hybrid Crosstrek is a good move.
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Mar 21, 2013 16:29
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What the heck are Ram Riders? Google only turns up some Japanese pop star.
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Mar 21, 2013 17:25
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Xguard86 posted:What the heck are Ram Riders? Google only turns up some Japanese pop star. When you drive a vehicle into a building or ATM in order to gain access/steal it. I'm guess they made good getaway cars.
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Mar 21, 2013 17:31
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They have to meet fleet average fuel economy targets. I'm fine with the base garbage being CVT and hybrid if it means the performance stuff turns massive amounts of fuel into massive amounts of speed and noise.
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Mar 21, 2013 17:48
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Subaru will make money off of it, which is definitely a good thing. It's the Subaru Cayenne.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:01
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Powershift posted:They have to meet fleet average fuel economy targets. I'm fine with the base garbage being CVT and hybrid if it means the performance stuff turns massive amounts of fuel into massive amounts of speed and noise. Yeah, this is what I've been saying - CAFE targets are going to be harder to hit, and Subaru is coming from a harder position than most because everything that isn't the BRZ has AWD.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:06
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, this is what I've been saying - CAFE targets are going to be harder to hit, and Subaru is coming from a harder position than most because everything that isn't the BRZ has AWD. Speaking as a Canadian, where a good AWD system is an incredible benefit to anyone who has to be able to drive on a given day, I feel like automakers should get a CAFE relaxation for AWD cars, based on the expected loss due to adding AWD. Yeah, in the southern states, AWD might be considered a performance option, but if you live in a northern climate, especially in a rural or mountainous area, it's almost essential.
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Mar 21, 2013 18:14
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PT6A posted:Speaking as a Canadian, where a good AWD system is an incredible benefit to anyone who has to be able to drive on a given day, I feel like automakers should get a CAFE relaxation for AWD cars, based on the expected loss due to adding AWD. Yeah, in the southern states, AWD might be considered a performance option, but if you live in a northern climate, especially in a rural or mountainous area, it's almost essential. Basically this. I live in a really hilly, rainy area and I would never consider owning a FWD car again in my life (I would own an RWD for all the wrong reasons) and I'm worried that the next time I go to buy a car there won't be many AWD options out there because of CAFE. Let alone cars that are designed around AWD and not just FWD factory conversions. You can make a solid argument that in areas like this, AWD provides a lot of preventative safety over an RWD/FWD car, and that is way more important than a few MPG's to some people. e: are there any AWD hybrids at all other than that one lexus that aren't a giant SUV or a pickup? I can get behind subaru making a crossover awd hybrid simply because there really aren't many (any?) options in that segment, but what I would really love to see is an awd hybrid wagon or sedan. Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:30
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Drunken Lullabies posted:Basically this. I live in a really hilly, rainy area and I would never consider owning a FWD car again in my life (I would own an RWD for all the wrong reasons) RWD is actually better than FWD for wet hill starts, since all the weight shifts onto the drive wheels. But regardless, I also live in a very hilly, very rainy area and you absolutely do not need AWD at all. It amazes me that so many people around here think they need AWD (and all the added cost, complexity, and reduced efficiency) just to drive around in the rain. As is typical, good tires mean far more than drive configuration. I've had a streak of sporty RWD cars and take them out to the mountains in snow and on dirt roads and they have all been champs. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:37
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Guinness posted:RWD is actually better than FWD for wet hill starts, since all the weight shifts onto the drive wheels. But regardless, I also live in a very hilly, very rainy area and you absolutely do not need AWD at all. It amazes me that so many people around here think they need AWD (and all the added cost, complexity, and reduced efficiency) just to drive around in the rain. I can get by just fine in about any car in the rain but you would be surprised how many people lose traction and cause accidents up here in Seattle. When there's that much user involved, anything at all to help them keep traction helps. Yeah AWD is more expensive, heavy, complex, and less fuel efficient, but that's not going to matter when you ram your FWD econobox into a parked car. (yes good tires and brakes and knowing how to drive a car are more important, but the drivers are so bad up here that literally anything helps) AWD makes sense here though, because even though it never snows, you're hosed without it when it does. There's no snow plows up here. Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:42
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I also live in (and grew up in) Seattle. There really is zero need for AWD unless you live way in the mountain boonies or spend a significant portion of your time in the mountains (especially in winter). Regardless of your drive wheels, if you're losing traction in the rain you're either on piss poor tires or driving like a dummy (or both). AWD only helps you get going; it doesn't help you stop. I mean whatever, go buy an AWD vehicle if that's what you want for those two snow days every other year. That's like buying a pickup truck because you might move apartments sometime in the next few years. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:46
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Guinness posted:I also live in Seattle. There really is zero need for AWD unless you live way in the mountain boonies or spend a significant portion of your time in the mountains (especially in winter). Or you live in any of the suburbs surrounding Seattle that don't get snow plowed and you have a job. Though the biggest use for it is having a SLIGHTLY increased ability to dodge other cars that are loving up. Granted I also lived on a giant hill/mountain thing for most of my time in this state and trying to get back up it with a little ice is suicide. Hey I finally found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ourR2gqCLpw (I do a bunch of random off roading though, and I own an RWD car, so there is that) (Plus AWD cars are the best if you drive in the city a lot, especially cap hill/first hill/downtown. Your average street is a giant steep wet hill & any fwd/rwd car or car with poor weight distribution is going to take a massive hit to performance on the average road here, assuming you're on the same tires.) Drunken Lullabies fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 18:54
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Drunken Lullabies posted:Hey I finally found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ourR2gqCLpw No amount of AWD is going to help you stop sliding down an iced-over 10%+ grade hill. The best move there is not to play. I live right near where a lot of these videos were taken a couple years ago and it was a neighborhood gathering to come and watch the morons drive their cars down roads that should have been closed (and later were). quote:(Plus AWD cars are the best if you drive in the city a lot, especially cap hill/first hill/downtown. Your average street is a giant steep wet hill & any fwd/rwd car or car with poor weight distribution is going to take a massive hit to performance on the average road here, assuming you're on the same tires.) That is exactly where I live, and cars are not careening out of control on wet hills because they are FWD/RWD. There is no tangible "performance" loss on dense urban roads where you're lucky to be able to do the posted 30mph limit. I almost never spin my tires on wet pavement in my RWD car. Occasionally some dolt will spin his tires for a split second with an over-eager start on one of the exceptionally steep (15%+ grade) hills, but it's not like they're all of a sudden slamming into things around them. Yes, people are in general terrible drivers around here but that is typically because they aren't aggressive enough. Rolled vehicles and spun-out cars are not even close to a daily occurrence. People not paying attention when the light turns green and waving people through out-of-turn at 4-way stops, however, is. ANYWAY, this derail is getting out of hand. Anyone see Hyundai's new concept car renderings, the HND-9? It'd be cool to see Hyundai start making some real sports cars. The Genesis Coupe sorta counts, but not really.  
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Mar 21, 2013 19:25
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I think AWD is probably overused (for example, I have absolutely no problems here in the city with my Mustang on a decent set of winter tires 98% of the time), but if I were commuting every day from the suburbs or the area surrounding the city, I'd want AWD and winter tires. If I lived out in the sticks where I grew up, I wouldn't even consider going without AWD/4WD and winter tires, since road clearing is nowhere near the standard that it is in cities, and if you do get stuck, you might be waiting a while before someone can come along and get you unstuck.
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Mar 21, 2013 19:29
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I see the list of what people claim is the absolute barest minimum they can have in a car and still function in society, take a look at my last 6 or 7 cars, and wonder how I haven't literally been killed just by opening my door yet.
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Mar 21, 2013 19:33
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Drunken Lullabies posted:Or you live in any of the suburbs surrounding Seattle that don't get snow plowed and you have a job. Though the biggest use for it is having a SLIGHTLY increased ability to dodge other cars that are loving up. Granted I also lived on a giant hill/mountain thing for most of my time in this state and trying to get back up it with a little ice is suicide. It gets that bad maybe 3 or 4 days a year. And the problem isn't AWD/whatever, it's the lack of snow plows in the city.
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Mar 21, 2013 19:46
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Drunken Lullabies posted:I can get by just fine in about any car in the rain but you would be surprised how many people lose traction and cause accidents up here in Seattle. Can you explain this? They, literally, lose control and crash their car as a result of not having AWD? Why can't they just step on the brakes or drive at a prudent speed? Or is there some intrinsic difference between AWD and non-AWD drivers that I'm missing?
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Mar 21, 2013 19:53
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hifi posted:Can you explain this? They, literally, lose control and crash their car as a result of not having AWD? Why can't they just step on the brakes or drive at a prudent speed? Or is there some intrinsic difference between AWD and non-AWD drivers that I'm missing? Welcome to the hell that is driving in town. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgIvH0tu6Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Mar 21, 2013 20:01
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Guinness posted:No amount of AWD is going to help you stop sliding down an iced-over 10%+ grade hill. The best move there is not to play. I live right near where a lot of these videos were taken a couple years ago and it was a neighborhood gathering to come and watch the morons drive their cars down roads that should have been closed (and later were). I live on Capitol Hill and, if I'm at the Bellevue/Denny intersection on an even modestly wet day, will hear several seconds of tire-spinning from some idiot when the light turns green and they try to start moving uphill. AWD would help them but not as much as learning to drive would. But it is staggering how often I hear spinning tires and for how long they let them spin. Meanwhile I get around just fine with FWD without TC with barely a slip. Even if Seattle had a fleet of plows there's only so much you can do on such steep grades with such bad paving on such narrow roads. All the east-west roads around me had "SNOW CLOSURE" signs sitting at each intersection just waiting to be set out if the weather turned. A hybrid Subaru would do very well here, especially if it was as conspicuously a hybrid as the Prius is. Finally my fellow Seattleites could have their hybrid smugness and their rugged outdoorsy image all at once.
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