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Cardiac posted:So we get the teen version of Bloody-Nine? Clearly what we need is the spawn of Ninefingers and Ferro.
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Mar 20, 2013 15:45
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Cardiac posted:At least we won't get the teen version of Glokta, considering he is neutered. Keeping in mind who Glotka married, and why, there's a better-than-even chance that we'll at least get a teenager who was raised by Glotka, which is about as good.
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Mar 20, 2013 15:53
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Braking Gnus posted:Clearly what we need is the spawn of Ninefingers and Ferro. This would be cool. I'm wary, though, because I've never read a story about the children of the original cast that was as good as the original.
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Mar 20, 2013 18:35
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Play posted:I think that's the problem with Khalul too: he has a simple motivation and anyways he's basically just Bayaz's counterpart. Just picture a Bayaz who's darker in skin color. They have the same lack of morals, the same unlimited influence, the same ancient grudge.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:03
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syphon posted:Given Abercrombie's love of inverting tropes, if we ever do see a lot of Khalul, I bet he'll be completely reasonable and relatable and likable and not at all a villain. My guess would be he is driven by desperation and actually hates all the steps he has to take. But there's something, a thing that will happen at a certain time or some lost relic or poo poo like that, only he and Bayaz knows about that forces his hand, because Bayaz can't be left alone to assume control over it. Or knowing Abercrombie, that's how he'll be written from his own perspective. But hidden in the details you'll see something else. Maybe that's what got him started, a good excuse to cross a line he once told himself he wouldn't, but in reality he grew to like what he does a long time ago. Abercrombie likes writing about the good in evil men and the evil in men that tell themselves they're good. And i think Khalul has been set up to be both at once.
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Mar 20, 2013 20:19
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The thing that makes me really hyped up for a book with Khalul POV is Bayaz's character development. In the trilogy, he set himself up as the Glinda to Khalul's Wicked Witch of the West. Over the course of the books, we learned that he's the immortal monster set on world domination, and that as nasty as Khalul is anyone who opposes Bayaz is probably doing something right. Contrast to how we went from understanding Kanedias as a bad guy, to someone probably not as bad as Bayaz, to actually being a pretty swell dude if the culture of the Dragon People is any indication. I just really want to see how Khalul sizes up.
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Mar 20, 2013 22:51
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Down With People posted:I just really want to see how Khalul sizes up. Well, from what we've seen of the Eaters and stuff Khalul is pretty awful too. All the wizards are awful, they're all spiteful, angry, horribly dangerous relics of a horribly dangerous era that are wrecking the modern day so they can score points on each other. The difference between Kahlul and Bayaz is that Khalul uses the dogma of religion to control his pawns while Bayaz uses the dogma of finance.
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Mar 21, 2013 07:03
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Yeah the whole eater thing is a severe black mark for Khalul, and the only defense that can be offered is that his back was up against a wall and that he was doing it to take out Byaz. I will say that there is a reason the first law is the first law and the second is the second. What Byaz did with Ferro and the seed is, in my opinion, far more dangerous and irresponsible than anything Khalul ever did. It's fortunate for everyone that the seal was not broken, but I really have to wonder if the world below is going to come up in the next trilogy. As far as Wizards, the guy who got trapped in the Makers house seemed like a really good guy. Same with the guy who talked to birds, though knowing Abercrombie he's probably a monster too...
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Mar 21, 2013 07:28
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wiegieman posted:Well, from what we've seen of the Eaters and stuff Khalul is pretty awful too. All the wizards are awful, they're all spiteful, angry, horribly dangerous relics of a horribly dangerous era that are wrecking the modern day so they can score points on each other. The difference between Kahlul and Bayaz is that Khalul uses the dogma of religion to control his pawns while Bayaz uses the dogma of finance. Yeah, it's basically the Catholic Church vs Wall Street. gently caress em' both.
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Mar 21, 2013 07:46
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A twenty year jump could see the Union fielding soldiers armed with muskets and cannons. Give it a hundred year jump and we could definitely see fairly advanced firearms (Bayaz and all his economic might will probably push weapon research to the forefront) And then we can get Demons breaking through the seal and humans fighting them with firearms. That'd be cool
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Mar 21, 2013 10:24
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wiegieman posted:Well, from what we've seen of the Eaters and stuff Khalul is pretty awful too. All the wizards are awful, they're all spiteful, angry, horribly dangerous relics of a horribly dangerous era that are wrecking the modern day so they can score points on each other. The difference between Kahlul and Bayaz is that Khalul uses the dogma of religion to control his pawns while Bayaz uses the dogma of finance. Okay, yeah, Khalul looks pretty awful but... You know... ...something. Blind Melon posted:Same with the guy who talked to birds, though knowing Abercrombie he's probably a monster too... Since I'm pretty sure the last we see of him is trying to manipulate the power-players of a backwards-rear end city out in the Far Country if he's evil then at the very least he's incompetent about it. Down With People fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 11:11
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wiegieman posted:Well, from what we've seen of the Eaters and stuff Khalul is pretty awful too. All the wizards are awful, they're all spiteful, angry, horribly dangerous relics of a horribly dangerous era that are wrecking the modern day so they can score points on each other. The difference between Kahlul and Bayaz is that Khalul uses the dogma of religion to control his pawns while Bayaz uses the dogma of finance. To be fair though, Bayaz started it 
Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 14:32
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Yeah but did he?! he did
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Mar 21, 2013 15:27
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah but did he?! he did What does it matter now, who killed who a thousand years ago?
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Mar 21, 2013 16:10
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Jack Ketch posted:What does it matter now, who killed who a thousand years ago? It might not matter in the real world because everyone involved would be long dead, but in Abercrombie's world it does matter because most of the relevant parties are still alive and nursing grudges.
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Mar 21, 2013 20:02
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Mr.48 posted:It might not matter in the real world because everyone involved would be long dead, but in Abercrombie's world it does matter because most of the relevant parties are still alive and nursing grudges. Not sure if you missed it but that was a direct quote from the books in regards to this same topic.
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Mar 21, 2013 20:24
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Gorst and Morveer are goon heroes because they are asperger's as gently caress. Gorst is like a super buff watch and weight goon who spends all his time working out out of spite because he is enraged that a girl made fun of him in high school when he tried to ask her out. Morveer is the type of goon who is obsessed with something obscure and pathetic that nobody else cares about, like obscure anime, and is convinced that anybody else who does not agree with his taste in obscure anime is an uncultured dog who will never be on his level.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:07
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Morveer was just the most compelling useless wanker. I mean, Abercrombie can usually seem get behind anybody but with Morveer you just felt the dislike seeping out of the ink. I hated him but he was really interesting to read about because he was totalling 'spergin ever so slightly and it was great. There was a lot of Cosca in Gorst.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:19
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Gorst and Morveer are goon heroes because they are asperger's as gently caress. Gorst is like a super buff watch and weight goon who spends all his time working out out of spite because he is enraged that a girl made fun of him in high school when he tried to ask her out. Morveer is the type of goon who is obsessed with something obscure and pathetic that nobody else cares about, like obscure anime, and is convinced that anybody else who does not agree with his taste in obscure anime is an uncultured dog who will never be on his level. And Logen is every loser who has a  HIDDEN DARK SIDE on the Internet
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Mar 22, 2013 20:37
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Don't forg Friendly! Spergy sociopath with a hidden soft side.
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Mar 22, 2013 20:53
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Blind Melon posted:Don't forg Friendly! Spergy sociopath with a hidden soft side. Luv 2  Friendly was a pretty awesome character, he was the ultimate straight man to anyone's crazy schemes.
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Mar 22, 2013 21:38
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Zasze posted:Luv 2 You knew it's a hosed up world where an assassin Rain Man who wants to go back to jail is the straight man.
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Mar 22, 2013 21:49
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TheWorldIsSquare posted:You knew it's a hosed up world where an assassin Rain Man who wants to go back to jail is the straight man. I loving loved Friendly, he just wants to chill in his routine and roll his dice.
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Mar 22, 2013 23:57
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Mr Crustacean posted:I loving loved Friendly, he just wants to chill in his routine and roll his dice. I don't get all the people who keep wanting to see Logen since obviously the next trilogy should be about Friendly constantly failing to have a chill routine because of all the crazy people he plays sidekick to.
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Mar 23, 2013 00:27
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I would read the poo poo out of that.
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Mar 23, 2013 03:05
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Mr Crustacean posted:I loving loved Friendly, he just wants to chill in his routine and roll his dice. "You apologize to my loving dice!" is one of the best lines ever put to print.
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Mar 23, 2013 09:55
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Greenlit posted:"You apologize to my loving dice!" is one of the best lines ever put to print. That entire chapter is one of my favorite things Abercrombie has ever written. Throughout the entire thing I was just thinking, "Oh god, oh no..." as things progressively fell more and more apart.
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Mar 23, 2013 22:54
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It took me a while to push into the home stretch of Last Argument of Kings, but goddamn this poo poo is good. It's kind of funny because I tried many, many times to begin The Blade Itself but found the beginning so uninteresting. Logen seemed pretty generic and the Shanka just weren't much of a hook. Even after getting into the meat of the book, it was something I didn't relish. By the second book, I understood the characters and enjoyed reading about all of them (except Ferro). It, and several other books, saw me through a stay at hospital. But after getting to about the halfway point of Last Argument everything has clicked. Even though I don't find the world that interesting, I want to read all I can of the varying characters. Jezal, of all people, has become likeable. I hope for more from the stand-alones! As long as there's no more Ferro.
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Mar 25, 2013 11:36
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You're just getting to the good bits, friend.
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Mar 25, 2013 11:38
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At the end of the series, Jezal was my favorite character (just because of his character progression).
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Mar 25, 2013 18:21
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Yeah, Jezal ended up being my favorite character, mostly because his character was half hilarious, throwing a hissy fit and decking an uppity senator with a loving tea cup, and half tragic, lying in his own vomit, tearfully regretting how little he appreciated his previous carefree life, how much he had lost, and how much of a fool he truly was as Bayaz walked away smirking. Speaking of which that was probably my favorite scene ever written by Abercrombie, it was so dark and genius.
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Mar 28, 2013 00:29
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TheWorldIsSquare posted:Yeah, Jezal ended up being my favorite character, mostly because his character was half hilarious, throwing a hissy fit and decking an uppity senator with a loving tea cup, and half tragic, lying in his own vomit, tearfully regretting how little he appreciated his previous carefree life, how much he had lost, and how much of a fool he truly was as Bayaz walked away smirking. Speaking of which that was probably my favorite scene ever written by Abercrombie, it was so dark and genius. Yeah, poor Jezal. He just gets to become King. His life must be so poo poo having to marry that hot lesbian while taking orders from a dude that is hardly ever around. If anything he should be thanking Bayaz every chance he gets. Bayaz was right to put that ungrateful emo little-poo poo in his place.
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Mar 28, 2013 17:27
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Space Pussy posted:Yeah, poor Jezal. He just gets to become King. His life must be so poo poo having to marry that hot lesbian while taking orders from a dude that is hardly ever around. A king who has no say in anything and is just going to be a tool to perpetuate Bayaz's eternal cycle of suffering he causes to everyone in the kingdom, despite genuinely wanting to make things better. Yep. he gets to gently caress a hot lesbian chick- who hates his guts and is going to go back to hating him once he impregnates her, and who he doesn't like anyway. And yep, Bayaz is barely around- but Glokta, his other tool and the real ruler of the Union, is. Jezal was kind of a pissant but his life does genuinely suck now.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:31
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TheWorldIsSquare posted:A king who has no say in anything and is just going to be a tool to perpetuate Bayaz's eternal cycle of suffering he causes to everyone in the kingdom, despite genuinely wanting to make things better. Yep. he gets to gently caress a hot lesbian chick- who hates his guts and is going to go back to hating him once he impregnates her, and who he doesn't like anyway. And yep, Bayaz is barely around- but Glokta, his other tool and the real ruler of the Union, is. Jezal was kind of a pissant but his life does genuinely suck now. So a King that can gently caress any whore he wishes, eats better than anyone within a 1000 miles and none of the responsibility? Sure beats living as a bastard peasant in this grimdark world. Yeah, Jezal really has it rough. Even if Bayaz let him continue his other life, Jezal doesn't win the contest, probably ends up with a Northern axe in his chest, or a mid-level captain cripple like glokta which then hangs himself in by the time he is 30 having to deal with his insufferable wife's alcohol problem.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:45
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Space Pussy posted:So a King that can gently caress any whore he wishes, eats better than anyone within a 1000 miles and none of the responsibility? Sure beats living as a bastard peasant in this grimdark world. Yeah, Jezal really has it rough. Never said his life was worse than the other characters, just that... yeah, it is pretty bad. The entire point is that he doesn't want to be king and that he just wants to go back to training with wooden swords and fleecing his friends at cards. Undoubtedly some of that is whining but the entire point is by the end he actually wanted to do things as king and instead he's been relegated to a puppet, that isn't happy ending material.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:50
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TheWorldIsSquare posted:Never said his life was worse than the other characters, just that... yeah, it is pretty bad. The entire point is that he doesn't want to be king and that he just wants to go back to training with wooden swords and fleecing his friends at cards. Undoubtedly some of that is whining but the entire point is by the end he actually wanted to do things as king and instead he's been relegated to a puppet, that isn't happy ending material. No he doesn't have it 'bad'. You do realize without Bayaz, Jezal grows up a whore's bastard. Probably ends up a begger with how emo he's wired.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:53
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Space Pussy posted:No he doesn't have it 'bad'. No, he'd go on to win glory in Angland actually, probably without ever doing any actual fighting. He gets called a hero by peasants on the street just due to rumors about the poo poo he did going for the Seed, do you think he wouldn't be considered a hero coming back from Anglang?
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Mar 28, 2013 18:56
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TheWorldIsSquare posted:No, he'd go on to win glory in Angland actually, probably without ever doing any actual fighting. He gets called a hero by peasants on the street just due to rumors about the poo poo he did going for the Seed, do you think he wouldn't be considered a hero coming back from Anglang? I think he's referring to the whole bit about Bayaz basically taking him off the street as a baby and having him adopted into a noble house. That doesn't make him right, of course. There's a difference between a "good" life and a fulfilling one. Jezal has a good life in that anything he physically needs is provided, but he can do nothing he truly wishes to do, a lot of which is wanting to actually help the people stuck in a cycle of powerlessness and destitution perpetuated by the man controlling him. But he gets to gently caress a hot woman so what an emo bitch I guess.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:11
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Oh Snapple! posted:I think he's referring to the whole bit about Bayaz basically taking him off the street as a baby and having him adopted into a noble house. Oh yeah, I forgot Bayaz was the one who got him into a noble house in the first place. And that basically summarizes what I'm getting at, there's a difference between a fulfilling and good life.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:13
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Man, I The Heroes taught me to absolutely hate Gorst. Abercrombie did a good job of explaining his character and letting us see why Gorst is Gorst, but Jesus he's just a rabid attack dog with few redeeming features. All he does is lust after Finree in the gooniest possible way. To him she's not even a person, just a pretty idea for his spank bank. I love how Abercrombie subverts the hero trope with Gorst because, were we to not see into Gorst's mind, he would seem like a kind of tragic hero. He seems brave and valiant (but really just has a suicidal death wish). He seems loyal (but really hates everything about who he is and would defect if he wasn't so much of a coward). He seems unjustly handled and tragic (but really his fall came about because he was getting drunk and banging a prostitute instead of, you know, being the king's body guard). It's great to see Gorst almost become self-aware of his lovely flaws/self-obsessed nature at the end of The Heroes, but nope! He just says "SOMETIMES I SHOULD JUST SHUT UP BECAUSE I HAVE A SQUEAKY VOICE" and learns nothing. It's so great. On that note, I also have to congratulate Abercrombie on making another strong female lead in Finree the verbal lashing she gave Gorst at the end of The Heroes was born out of such righteous fury, and, in my mind at least, is what cements her as a person, not just some hot chick for dudes to lust after. Basically Gorst has a 'nice-guy' complex and is a bad person. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 30, 2013 |
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Mar 30, 2013 04:05
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