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Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Dirty Job posted:

Any tips for roleplaying in Black Crusade? I'm having difficulties grasping my characters in this game, partially because I'm not very good at playing a bad guy. I'm currently running as a renegade/former stormtrooper.

Well are you super chaotic? The imperium isn't a very nice place, so you could simply come from the angle of wanting more modern freedoms. You'd be a heretic, but not the moustache twirling baby sacrficing kind.

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Signal
Dec 10, 2005

It's pretty easy when you think of it more as "You're a freedom fighter."

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 209 days!
Whoever got you kicked out, justly or not, might be a good target. There are things in your new home that offer power to those seeking justice and revenge...

Like an addict, the further down the path of Corruption/Infamy, the more your power and devotion to the Dark Gods in return for your ability to indulge in it becomes an end in itself, and the more your original goal becomes just something that keeps you moving forward along the so-called "Path to Glory."

Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Mar 23, 2013

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

Yea, it never helps to think of your character as being evil. The Imperium is only 'good' in the sense that it is broadly opposed to the heinous other-worldly monsters that want to destroy everything and eat your soul. In general it is a pretty lovely place to be, and often treats it's citizens very badly. So there are a bunch of reasons that you could be a renegade - for instance, maybe you were involved in putting down a Chaos cult, and ended up seriously doubting that the Imperium was better than the Cult (because the Imperium is particularly brutal about putting down cults, and many cults are not obviously terrible - many of them are couched in very moderate views). You could also have swallowed your doubt and purged this cult, only to find out that Imperial policy is often to execute any soldiers that had contact with daemonic elements, to prevent corruption - so maybe having a bunch of your friends executed would turn you.

Or you could go big. Your dude is a stormtrooper, best of the best, hardened veteran. He's done all this crazy poo poo for the Imperium, terrible things, but he's managed to hold onto the idea that this serves some greater purpose, that it keeps people safe. Then he's on shore leave one day at a station and bam, he finds out that his home planet was attacked by Chaos/Tyranids/etc. and ended up getting Exterminatused (ie, burned to a crisp). Better yet, have the reason for it be a mystery or clouded in doubt. Maybe some Lord Inquisitor rolled into system with a fleet, cut off all travel and refused any evacuation and then slagged the surface from orbit.

Or it could be much more personal, I guess. Your regiment had a particularly zealous and ruthless Commissar who would up and punish people for anything. After a certain amount of time he goes to far, executes some kid for the most trivial of offenses, and you and the other soldiers finally have had too much - you gun him down, and then realize that you are now in serious poo poo. And there was no way you were going to hang for killing that bastard, so you ended up having to shoot your way to a cutter and make a run for it.

Edit: I feel like Westerns are probably good source for this sort of thing, you often get characters who have made a couple mistakes and then sort of spiraled into bad company and suddenly they're running with a bunch of the worst cutthroats in the territory.

Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post
You could also be a reformer. You see corruption, you set out to fix it. Black Crusade is ripe for a comedy game where you fight injustice, set up utopian societies, and then move on, right before a shitload of tyranids or a chaos outbreak or w/e goes down

MaliciousOnion
Sep 23, 2009

Ignorance, the root of all evil
Maybe the Administratum just mis-filed some paperwork and accidentally branded you or your squad Excommunicate Traitoris, so you've had no choice but to fall in with the "bad guys".

Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post

MaliciousOnion posted:

Maybe the Administratum just mis-filed some paperwork and accidentally branded you or your squad Excommunicate Traitoris, so you've had no choice but to fall in with the "bad guys".

You're a loyal administratum guy who saw your name on an ecclesiastical list of heretics and took it as a command from the Golden Throne. Who are you to argue?

Talkie Toaster
Jan 23, 2006
May contain carcinogens

Jerkface posted:

Well are you super chaotic? The imperium isn't a very nice place, so you could simply come from the angle of wanting more modern freedoms. You'd be a heretic, but not the moustache twirling baby sacrficing kind.
Well, not initially. You might start off just wanting an end to the oppression and conformity, but before long Slaanesh starts whispering that if you revel in your newfound freedoms they'll grant you power to liberate others. Gradually self-expression gets corrupted by the Warp into self-indulgence, then self-obsession and eventually you're stitching cloaks out of human eyelids because you think they'd be a perfect fit for you.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



I guess my problem mainly stems from having a difficult time grasping the concept of Black Crusade. I'm so used to linear roleplaying that I have a difficult time figuring out what to do in an open environment. I usually end up twiddling my thumbs until it's time to shoot something or use one of my character's skills.

I learn best from examples though, so if it's not too much to ask, does anyone have any neat stories they can tell about Black Crusade/Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy/Deathwatch and cool stuff they've done? Could be interesting.

TheArmorOfContempt
Nov 29, 2012

Did I ever tell you my favorite color was blue?
So I got my first taste of Dark Heresy this week. I RP with two different groups, and thus had markedly different experiences.

The first I didn't GM for and ended up rolling a Meticallican Hive Worlder using the gunslinger kit from the Inquisitor's Handbook, unfortunately for this group we are pretty low on the brains department since no one went with an Adept or Tech-Priest. The GM claims he has most of this adventure written down, and I think part of the issue is I am such a huge Warham that I couldn't help but poke holes in his scenario the entire time. In short our team is dispatched with some red-shirt guardsmen aboard a rogue trader vessel to investigate a distress signal from a ship that has been missing (presumed lost in the warp) since the days of the Heresy. So right of the bat I am kind of doubting the concept of sending a single platoon of guardsmen along with very junior acolytes to inspect something so ancient and valuable. We're instructed to retrieve an artifact called the "Chalice of Sanguinius" from the ship and of course things go wrong the second we step foot. After we board the frigate its weapon systems destroy the rogue trader vessel, and we also end up finding a Luna Wolf in cyrostatis who later saves us from very underpowered Genestealers(he greatly reduced their stats, going off the idea that they are a devolved and weaker strain). In all it mostly just involved a lot of us running around watching red-shirts die with very little combat and genuine roleplay. The night ended with us breaking into the cargo hold in search of this artifact to only find row upon row of virus bombs.

With the other group I GM'd using the Edge of Darkness campaign, and actually had quite of a bit of fun despite only one of the three players having any real knowledge of 40K. Also, we had a much more balanced group with a Imperial Psyker, Scum (face character), and Arbitrator. The Scum player was pretty successful in turning up a good chunk of relevant details using good rolls and roleplaying. Not to mention these characters all had a bit more personality than the other group. Our Void Born psyker is literally the youngest a character can be in this game, and the sanctioning only added something like 2 years to his life. Since he pretty much came out completely unscathed from his sanctioning he sees himself as one of the Emperor's chosen and likes to style his powers the Emperor's gifts made manifest. After a good chunk of investigating they decided to stay the night at Lilly Arbast's hab just as the night cycle hit the district. I ended up throwing two Body Snatchers at them, which they managed to surprise, and with their starting roles I expected the combat to end quickly. Unfortunately for them I rolled equally well, and they decided to fight the drat things in her 8x8m hab unit instead of moving about the hab complex. This resulted in them making an insane amount of hits on the drat things, but none of them seemed capable of rolling high enough on damage to get past their 3 AP and 4 toughness. The scum fired an auto pistol on full auto and got the max hits and still was unable to roll anything over a 5 on his damage rolls...it was really sad. Despite how long it took them to kill these things they managed to pull it off, and I encouraged them to essentially use their fate points to restore as many wounds as possible since they would get them back next game session. We ended with them staying the night in the hab until the day cycle starts again. They are pretty sure the Alm's House is where these things are coming from, but they have yet to go the Temple or the Trader's Union, which I have given them considerable information to make them curious enough to explore this place. Given their fight with two body snatchers I only see them teaming up with the Narco-Ganger leader as the viable method of pulling this thing off. They also may try to return to Interrogator Sand with the samples they obtained from the Body Snatchers, however they are going to be surprised to find that the local Enforcers have locked down the district, which should cement their suspicions leaving them with only several choices. The only outside the box thing they could possibly do is either try to organize a mob(they did make a big show of stopping some gangers from robbing a shop owner early on) or trying to cross the hab wastes to another transmit hub many kilometres away. If they took this route I'd even give them a chance of finding the Logician's bugout APC, which would really make things interesting.

Enentol
Jul 16, 2005
Middle Class Gangster

Uroboros posted:

With the other group I GM'd using the Edge of Darkness campaign

My campaign's main story had a bit of a lull, but the players were on Scintilla, so I decided to run Edge of Darkness.

Players were all intrigued about the body, but had no idea where to start their investigation.

For some reason, despite their briefing and handouts saying very much otherwise, they all decide that their fake IDs mean that they're actually enforcers for the Tantalus Combine.

Instead of looking for Lily or searching Saul's hab, the first thing they do is head to the Alms House and demand to perform an inspection.

Module ruined in about 20 minutes.

Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

Does anyone have suggestions for migrating DH psychic powers to the OW rules? My DH group will soon have 2 psykers (one Imperial Psyker, me as a Malefic Scholar sorceror) and I figured using OW rules would be a little bit tidier. Is there a guide for establishing Focus Tests for the older powers?

Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post
So I just noticed the navigator power The Course Untraveled. Holy poo poo. I never noticed it before because im not that interested in navigators and my players have never used it, but drat. Am I right in saying it makes you into nightcrawler? Especially since you can use it as a free action or a reaction, so some guy hits you with 10 bolter shots from his Holy Astartes Heavy Bolter and you're like "nope actually I'm not there, I'm across the room, right behind you, tapping you on the shoulder. and when you turn around to face me im gonna kill you with a glance"

its like the ultimate dodge, and is insanely useful on the offensive, and is instantaneous. holy poo poo.

Liesmith fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Mar 25, 2013

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

It's definitely a cool power, but the big downsides are that 1) if you gently caress it up you stun yourself for at least one round and 2) whether or not it succeeds, you end up Fatigued. Which is itself a pain in the rear end, because it means everything you want to and do gets that much harder. It also means you're going to be limited to using the power a handful of times in an encounter, you aren't going to be bamfing all around a combat shanking dudes because you'll knock yourself out.

It's probably worth having for an 'oh poo poo' power to dodge something seriously horrible (like those 10 HB shots) or pulling off some crazy movement stuff, but I don't see it as being used all the time. It's kind of like Tech-Priest abilities in that sense, sure Luminen Blast is kind of neat buy taking the Fatigue just fucks up the next hour for you.

TheArmorOfContempt
Nov 29, 2012

Did I ever tell you my favorite color was blue?

Enentol posted:

My campaign's main story had a bit of a lull, but the players were on Scintilla, so I decided to run Edge of Darkness.

Players were all intrigued about the body, but had no idea where to start their investigation.

For some reason, despite their briefing and handouts saying very much otherwise, they all decide that their fake IDs mean that they're actually enforcers for the Tantalus Combine.

Instead of looking for Lily or searching Saul's hab, the first thing they do is head to the Alms House and demand to perform an inspection.

Module ruined in about 20 minutes.

So how did they survive? There is something like ten body snatchers on standby in the Alm's House, and Moran can call for his fake enforcers. A frontal assault without any form of support either by getting the local narco-gangs on your side, or the local populace seems like complete suicide. I would think sneaking up to the Alm's House and setting it ablaze in the middle of the night would be a more effective strategy than your players picked. I figure if you started a fire it would attract the attention of the locals who would see the residents of the Alm's House for what they really are. At this point they would likely attempt their bug-out plan and cut their way through the crowd, but atleast you'd have a chance at killing the Chirugeon in the chaos.

Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Ashcans posted:

It's definitely a cool power, but the big downsides are that 1) if you gently caress it up you stun yourself for at least one round and 2) whether or not it succeeds, you end up Fatigued. Which is itself a pain in the rear end, because it means everything you want to and do gets that much harder. It also means you're going to be limited to using the power a handful of times in an encounter, you aren't going to be bamfing all around a combat shanking dudes because you'll knock yourself out.

It's probably worth having for an 'oh poo poo' power to dodge something seriously horrible (like those 10 HB shots) or pulling off some crazy movement stuff, but I don't see it as being used all the time. It's kind of like Tech-Priest abilities in that sense, sure Luminen Blast is kind of neat buy taking the Fatigue just fucks up the next hour for you.

I feel like fatigue is a real paper tiger, but this might be because the party ork was set on fire and decided never to put it out. If I hadn't Fiated it out (they were on an ice world, a wall melted and put him out) then he'd be on fire to this day, totally unconcerned with either the damage or the fatigue.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

Liesmith posted:

I feel like fatigue is a real paper tiger, but this might be because the party ork was set on fire and decided never to put it out. If I hadn't Fiated it out (they were on an ice world, a wall melted and put him out) then he'd be on fire to this day, totally unconcerned with either the damage or the fatigue.

I dunno, that extra -10% can be a real bitch if you are trying to do anything difficult or complicated already. Especially for non-combat stuff where there might not be an easy way to offset the penalty. That is probably a bigger deal for someone like Navigator than your typical Ork player. Fatigue is definitely one reason our Tech Priest doesn't use more his abilities, because it makes it harder for him to do his actually tech stuff later on. Plus if nothing else, it means that the Navigator is only going to make 4-5 of those dodges before he simply blacks out, which puts it behind regular Reactions as a default.

With your Ork dude, were you using all the Fire rules? Because not only does that mean that he would have been taking 1D10 damage every round, it means that he would have to pass a Will Power test every turn to try and take any action other than screaming and running around. Even if he had high enough Toughness that he could shrug off the damage (doable with an Ork) he'd have to make that check. Plus, as a GM, if a player was going to be like 'Heh, fire can't hurt me, just going to ignore it' :smug: I'd definitely reach outside the rules and have it start to damage his equipment, cook off his ammo, etc. You don't get to walk around on fire with no effect just because the mechanics don't have it covered.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Checking the rules, he'd take 1d10 damage and one level of Fatigue each round. Even if he has enough toughness bonus to literally never take damage from the fire he'll fall unconscious after 10 or so rounds. Having a nice burny nap after about a minute.

Plus the running around screaming, yes.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
To be fair leaving yourself on fire because you think it's cool is pretty orky.

Moonwolf
Jun 29, 2004

Flee from th' terrifyin' evil of "NHS"!


Although RAW there is no way to put out a fire unless you are on fire yourself. So pretty much everyone but Eldar and Ascension assassins just burns until they die or pass out and someone shoots their sleeping body, because AG tests at -30 are stupid.

Enentol
Jul 16, 2005
Middle Class Gangster

Uroboros posted:

So how did they survive? There is something like ten body snatchers on standby in the Alm's House, and Moran can call for his fake enforcers. A frontal assault without any form of support either by getting the local narco-gangs on your side, or the local populace seems like complete suicide. I would think sneaking up to the Alm's House and setting it ablaze in the middle of the night would be a more effective strategy than your players picked. I figure if you started a fire it would attract the attention of the locals who would see the residents of the Alm's House for what they really are. At this point they would likely attempt their bug-out plan and cut their way through the crowd, but atleast you'd have a chance at killing the Chirugeon in the chaos.

They ended up just assaulting the adepts working at the Alms House for thinking that they were full of poo poo. Moran calls for the enforcers who initiate lockdown. The acolytes manage to leave before the enforcers can get there. They sort of realized what they've done and go into hiding for the night cycle.

Hilariously, they proceed to go back to the Alms House the next day, take Moran aside and tell him that they're Inquisition and that they need his help in their investigation. Moran lies and tells them that he'll reach out to the gangs in the area to get more information and the acolytes leave.

The body snatchers start spreading the plague vials in the whole division and water supply. Moran obviously takes off with the enforcers. The acolytes have no idea.

At this point, they still haven't asked anyone about Arbest or bothered to find his sister.

Instead, they go into the Worker's Union in full force to get information from Luntz and the narcogangers. They straight up just pull guns and almost get killed (except for some crazy intimidate and charm rolls). The party psyker uses Luntz as a puppet to "kidnap" him, they interrogate him, and find out the Alms House is the real source of problems.

They stake it out that nightcycle, follow a bodysnatcher, and kill it.

At this point, they're now all infected, and still don't really know whats going on.

The next day they blow their way into the Enforcer's Station to end the lockdown so that they can call their handler to let them know about the growing situation.

Instead of waiting for backup, they decide to storm the Alms House.

We ran out of time, but right now they're at the 3rd floor, all sick from the plague, and about to face the Chirurgeon and roughly 10 bodysnatchers.



TL;DR My party doesn't really understand how to ask questions or be discreet even though they're explicitly told to ask questions and be discreet.

got some chores tonight
Feb 18, 2012

honk honk whats for lunch...
You should probably be playing Deathwatch.

TheArmorOfContempt
Nov 29, 2012

Did I ever tell you my favorite color was blue?

Enentol posted:

TL;DR My party doesn't really understand how to ask questions or be discreet even though they're explicitly told to ask questions and be discreet.

You are far more generous than I. I am more than fine with people getting themselves killed right off the bat, reroll, and then try again if they have only begun to scratch the surface of an adventure. I will go out of my way to save them from bad rolls and the like, but when they are just being stupid because they lack any sort of guile or imagination, gently caress'em.

Hell, just by telling Moran that they are with the Inquisition, something my group didn't even admit to Lili(the only person unlikely to blab), I'd be willing to say they were completely boned. Assaulting the enforcer blockhouse is equally dumb, although I don't know the size of your group. I'd say at that point I'd of had the Churgeon and Moran attept to flee the division, because it is clear the hammer is about to fall.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth

Dirty Job posted:

I guess my problem mainly stems from having a difficult time grasping the concept of Black Crusade. I'm so used to linear roleplaying that I have a difficult time figuring out what to do in an open environment. I usually end up twiddling my thumbs until it's time to shoot something or use one of my character's skills.

I'd say take that and run with it - if your dude doesn't know what to do with himself until it's time for combat, you've got a decent backstory right there. Imagine a WWI era veteran who's used to following orders and only really comes alive when he's being shot at. There's a good basis for a Chaos hook in that... is his issue that he really likes combat because he's got an explosive temper and combat lets him let out all his anger that he otherwise has to keep bottled up? He's on the first step of the SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE path. Or is he so burnt out from unending war that he just doesn't feel anything except when his life is at risk? There's a Slaanesh hook built in to that. I'd say don't worry about coming up with something that is going to feel strange to play unless you want to branch out - if you have a natural inclination, come up with a story that fits it.

Enentol
Jul 16, 2005
Middle Class Gangster

Uroboros posted:

You are far more generous than I. I am more than fine with people getting themselves killed right off the bat, reroll, and then try again if they have only begun to scratch the surface of an adventure. I will go out of my way to save them from bad rolls and the like, but when they are just being stupid because they lack any sort of guile or imagination, gently caress'em.

Hell, just by telling Moran that they are with the Inquisition, something my group didn't even admit to Lili(the only person unlikely to blab), I'd be willing to say they were completely boned. Assaulting the enforcer blockhouse is equally dumb, although I don't know the size of your group. I'd say at that point I'd of had the Churgeon and Moran attept to flee the division, because it is clear the hammer is about to fall.

The enforcer blockhouse was empty by the time that they got there, but yeah, that session was a serious lack of imagination. I really don't get it, these guy are used to pure investigation games like Call of Cthulhu. I have no idea how they took the information from the briefing and poo poo the bed so hard.

But yeah, they're not going to have a fun final fight.

Liesmith
Jan 29, 2006

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Zereth posted:

Checking the rules, he'd take 1d10 damage and one level of Fatigue each round. Even if he has enough toughness bonus to literally never take damage from the fire he'll fall unconscious after 10 or so rounds. Having a nice burny nap after about a minute.

Plus the running around screaming, yes.

You go unconsicous for 10 minus your toughness bonus minutes once you've taken fatigue equal to your TB, so my ork player becomes slightly more alert every 12 rounds or so

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Liesmith posted:

You go unconsicous for 10 minus your toughness bonus minutes once you've taken fatigue equal to your TB, so my ork player becomes slightly more alert every 12 rounds or so

Perpetually being on fire seems like the best thing ever, why did you put him out again?

Tardcore
Jan 24, 2011

Not cool enough for the Spider-man club.
If an ork is on fire forever does he get a speed boost? Red is faster after all.

kingcom
Jun 23, 2012

Tardcore posted:

If an ork is on fire forever does he get a speed boost? Red is faster after all.

Well given its burning plant life it might be going more of an orange or yellowish flame. He needs to cool himself down to get to red and give himself the +1 Agility Bonus for movement.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

kingcom posted:

Well given its burning plant life it might be going more of an orange or yellowish flame. He needs to cool himself down to get to red and give himself the +1 Agility Bonus for movement.

Yellow means wealth, he can get any item he wants that way! Probably because nobody wants to argue or even haggle with an ork who's so tough he's on fire and ignoring it, but still.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

So, I've got a player who's becoming a real problem in my Rogue Trader game. Their Explorator is playing his PC as some kind of crazy, stick-to-the-rules technopaladin, while the rest of the party consists of a Rogue Trader with entirely unhealthy levels of interest in Archeotech, his bitter Voidmaster younger brother who covets the Captain's chair, their probably-actually-a-heretic Seneschal cousin and her faustian hunt for truth, and a surprisingly chill sister of battle missionary who has the kind of flexibility necessary to encounter and convert heathens as well as set everyone on fire. As you can probably see, they are not a group big on Following All The Rules, which I gather is a major part of RT. Yet this one guy keeps getting in the way of a lot of the awesome poo poo they want to do and he's their only techpriest. This is especially damaging as their entire campaign is going to be a long treasure hunt for Archeotech and poo poo because of their RT. I can't tell if the Explorator just doesn't understand his position in the Mechanicus, fluff-wise, or if he's just a problem player who isn't quite imaginative enough, but how would you guys suggest I get this guy to loosen up and allow the party to pursue their schemes to exploit all kinds of semi-forbidden technology for profit? It's dragging the game down a bit and I've tried an out of game talk, but I just can't quite seem to get the point across that RT crews are actually not just allowed to do this poo poo, but expected to.

MaliciousOnion
Sep 23, 2009

Ignorance, the root of all evil
Technically, Explorators should be working for the Adeptus Mechanicus. Their whole job description is to tag along and find new tech to send back to Mars. That being said, if it's negatively affecting the group, you need to talk. Maybe the team can work out a plan, where they take it in turns to decide who keeps what, or you'll hand it over "as soon as we're done with it". Alternatively, let him find some tainted Archaeotech that makes him intensely possessive of it, and have him slowly spiral into depravity.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

Yea, I think that this is something you need to just talk to the player(s) about. If you have a group where one or more diverge seriously from the others, sometimes it is something that can be worked out in play. But if it is causing issues and disruptions, then it's worth laying it out to the player involved (or even the group) and discussing it. If nothing else, it helps the players to understand what the issue is, and can prevent anyone taking the disruption (or consequences) too personally.

I mean if the players are all on board, this is something that can be played as part of the game in a fun way, where the RT is always trying to work out how to spirit finds out from under his nose while the Explorator is trying to get them to send back to the Mechanicus, and the other members are switching back and forth based on their individual profit. But that requires that all the players see it is being an inside game, and aren't invested in any conflict between the characters.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Of course, getting assigned to hang out with a Rogue Trader might be the kind of assignment you give somebody you want to just loving go away. The most orthodox Magi are unlikely to be hanging out with some rear end in a top hat wandering around looking for shiny things at the fringes of the Imperium. The loyal, pious Explorators are the ones running Mechanicus-owned exploration ships!

So, plenty of room for the Explorator PCs to be a little... lax about proper procedure. (or maybe they're just pious in the wrong way according to their superiors.)

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
May 8, 2006
If you get the players onboard you can have fun doing the old "keep things secret from the Paladin" game, for a little while. That said, why not give the Mechanicus character a reason to question his orthodoxy - something that would let him accomplish a major goal, with only an extremely minor indiscretion (like a layperson had accidentally interfered with, and fixed, some device). If it's all a quest for revered archeotech, make it a story of gradual temptation. There should be things that appeal to the party, as well as to his character personally, in there. If the player doesn't seem very invested in many character goals other than Smite Heretics then give him some big bad enemy to go after, a heretek whose threat is primarily intellectual.

I think it's also reasonable, in stories like this, to occasionally spring surprise heresies on people - a device he thought was sanctioned by the proper Mechanicus authorities turns out to be a forgery or duplicate. You should definitely roll in secret for things like this, and inform him in secret as well, whether or not he realizes the heretical nature of the device. Then you get to find out things like: is he really pure, or is he primarily interested in appearances? What if he made a mistake (on one of the secret rolls) and someone else discovers it later - what is his response likely to be then?

Basically, introduce someone even more orthodox than he is, someone more heretical than he is, make them both slightly sympathetic and slightly more sinister, and then start throwing out a lot of difficult to resolve questions at him. I mean, theologians disagree all the time -- but so do engineers, about the best way to do things, and whether or not a device or practice is Heresy isn't always clear.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Not to mention any tech dealing with the Warp is heretek.

You know, like the loving warp drive.

The Imperium hates psykers, mutants, and warp-tech, and is also absolutely dependent on all three (Astropaths and others, Navigators, and warp drives) to function.

Ashcans
Jan 2, 2006

Let's do the space-time warp again!

Hey now, Navigators aren't mutants, they're Abhumans. That's very different, and definitely not a name we made up for mutants that are extremely useful to us that we'd prefer not to have to set on fire and need some sort of doctrinal loophole to exploit.

Zereth
Jul 9, 2003



Technically I think Navigators are (probably) engineered rather than mutations, but it's not like the Imperium is really capable of making the distinction these days. :v:

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Ashcans posted:

Hey now, Navigators aren't mutants, they're Abhumans. That's very different, and definitely not a name we made up for mutants that are extremely useful to us that we'd prefer not to have to set on fire and need some sort of doctrinal loophole to exploit.

Abhumans are stable, pure-breeding mutants that don't show further genetic instability or the influence of chaos. Many, particularly navigators, may originally have been engineered by humans during the Dark Age of Technology. The line is obviously pretty weak, but abhumans can still be distinguished from mutants, who in-game show all sorts of crazy traits and extreme instability and usually are unique instead of being part of a large distinct population all sharing the same traits.

Of course, whether a newly discovered population actually gets classified as abhumans probably depends on how gross you look, what the whims and politics of the arms of the imperium around to defend/condemn you are, and how useful you are.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 27, 2013

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Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

As always with Paladin type characters, he should be absolutely cool with what his party members are doing (within reason) and should be directing his anger at the NPCs that are breaking the rules. Ancient cult sprung up around an archeotech on a feral world? Those feral idiots are the ones not observing the rights! The rogue trader should be liberating it!

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