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White Phosphorus posted:Avelone? That's kind of weird seeing how he does NOT like Planescape:Torment. From what I gathered from a recent interview he really went on this kick that games are supposed to be written like movies - "show don't tell". And PS:T was written like a book "tell don't show" - and apparently he is convinced now that is not the correct way to write for games. I'm not sure you understand what these terms mean. "Show, don't tell" is the general rule of the land for anything that's meant to be engaging, regardless of which medium it's written for. "Tell, don't show" is how you write an encyclopedia article. All those chunks of vivid description in P:ST are still examples of showing, not telling. But video games are a visual medium, and game developers have the opportunity to offload an increasing amount of physical description onto the art itself. Avellone isn't at all wrong to suggest that game writing is becoming more and more like script writing, and I don't think that has a whole lot to do with his personal preference, whatever it may be, so much as it's just the natural outcome of increasing graphical quality.
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Mar 23, 2013 01:49
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Colin is really going all out on finding good writers for this project. According to the comment section:Colin McComb posted:I actually tried to get a hold of Neil Gaiman. Sadly, I never heard back. That would be unbelievably awesome if it ends up panning out.
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Mar 23, 2013 03:15
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Pyradox posted:Colin is really going all out on finding good writers for this project. According to the comment section: They could also try for Mike Carey, who was the writer for Lucifer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_%28DC_Comics%29
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Mar 23, 2013 03:22
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Pyradox posted:That would be unbelievably awesome if it ends up panning out. Neil Gaiman is popular enough and gets enough requests on daily basis that he demands *a lot* of money for this sort of poo poo just so he doesn't get overwhelmed by them. So, basically, not happening. China Mieville, though... EDIT: Actually, no. He'll probably refuse because the writing team is a sausage fest.
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Mar 23, 2013 03:31
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Oh man, I couldn't even begin to imagine how awesome sections from Neil Gaiman, Mike Carey, and Bill Willingham would be.
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Mar 23, 2013 03:37
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Megazver posted:China Mieville, though... EDIT: Actually, no. He'll probably refuse because the writing team is a sausage fest. It's unlikely, but I'd love to see this. In terms of originality the man is unmatched, and that makes him (in my mind) the very best genre fiction author in business today.
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Mar 23, 2013 04:33
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Scott Lynch finally finished spinning his wheels on his latest book and is probably looking for a change of pace.
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Mar 23, 2013 05:11
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Pledged obviously, as an RPG lover. But still, the main question "What does one life matter?" is pretty generic and the answer we're going to get to is already obvious, "One life can change the entire course of the universe, and in contrast one life can just exist and end without changing much of anything." or something along that. It's a big shame the Planescape setting hasn't been used for any other game and isn't being used for this, but luckily this setting seems pretty awesome.
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Mar 23, 2013 05:37
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Xaziel posted:Pledged obviously, as an RPG lover. But still, the main question "What does one life matter?" is pretty generic and the answer we're going to get to is already obvious, "One life can change the entire course of the universe, and in contrast one life can just exist and end without changing much of anything." or something along that. Yeah, even if they don't go for the obvious answer, it's still kind of trite. I'd rather they stopped focusing on it and just promised us some cool weird poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2013 05:45
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Megazver posted:I'd rather they stopped focusing on it and just promised us some cool weird poo poo. Well, if the promotional art is anything to go by...
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Mar 23, 2013 05:57
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Xaziel posted:Pledged obviously, as an RPG lover. But still, the main question "What does one life matter?" is pretty generic and the answer we're going to get to is already obvious, "One life can change the entire course of the universe, and in contrast one life can just exist and end without changing much of anything." or something along that. What can change the nature of a man? Everything, or nothing, or some things and not others, who cares
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Mar 23, 2013 06:49
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2house2fly posted:What can change the nature of a man? Everything, or nothing, or some things and not others, who cares Bb-but...My nostalgia!!!  
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Mar 23, 2013 07:40
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2house2fly posted:What can change the nature of a man? Everything, or nothing, or some things and not others, who cares You wouldn't really be able to guess the answer the game is going to give even if the question itself is not that non-generic. Especially because towards the middle of the game you start assuming the certain answer is regret, but it's not entirely so. With this question though, there really isn't much the game can do to make the answer not too predictable like it was in PST, obviously you are going to do (or be able to do) a whole lot for the game's universe and so the answer is going to imply that one life can matter a whole lot, or not much at all. Drifter posted:Bb-but...My nostalgia!!! I don't have much nostalgia for PST, I played it in around 2009 and it's still my favorite RPG regardless.
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Mar 23, 2013 08:43
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2house2fly posted:What can change the nature of a man? Everything, or nothing, or some things and not others, who cares Man when you had to answer that to Ravel did it had a "who cares" option? That would be cool. It was a long list and I think I picked "love" because I thought Ravel would give me more treasures if I said so since she loved The Nameless One edit: woops 
frajaq fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 08:48
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No, though it had "I can't answer that," "I don't know," and "Nothing." And, uh... Ravel. Ravel.
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Mar 23, 2013 08:52
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frajaq posted:Man when you had to answer that to Raven did it had a "who cares" option? That would be cool. It was a long list and I think I picked "love" because I thought Raven would give me more treasures if I said so since she loved The Nameless One
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Mar 23, 2013 08:53
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Xaziel posted:Pledged obviously, as an RPG lover. But still, the main question "What does one life matter?" is pretty generic and the answer we're going to get to is already obvious, "One life can change the entire course of the universe, and in contrast one life can just exist and end without changing much of anything." or something along that. It's so dumb when goons do this I swear. It's not like the first person you speak to is going to ask you that. It's almost as if there's a whole game ahead of you. When you got to Ravel she asked you the question, but unless you stopped at that point in the game then, yes I can see why goons are being goony about this stuff. Mass Effect really made people lose brain cells. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 23, 2013 09:29
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Necroneocon posted:Mass Effect really made people lose brain cells. "What does one life matter?" "Nothing, at least not yours" [right hook]  +20 Renegade points
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Mar 23, 2013 09:34
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Necroneocon posted:It's so dumb when goons do this I swear. It's not like the first person you speak to is going to ask you that. It's almost as if there's a whole game ahead of you. I don't see your point, obviously it's not the only thing that's the game going to have and be about, and obviously I'm looking forward to the game myself (as I said I pledged), but I'm criticizing the simplicity of the driving question and how the answer is really obvious up ahead unlike that of PST. What is ME related to any of this?
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Mar 23, 2013 09:48
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Xaziel posted:I don't see your point, obviously it's not the only thing that's the game going to have and be about, and obviously I'm looking forward to the game myself (as I said I pledged), but I'm criticizing the simplicity of the driving question and how the answer is really obvious up ahead unlike that of PST.
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Mar 23, 2013 10:02
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Xaziel posted:What is ME related to any of this?  His parents were slain by a haggard and desperate Mass Effect when he was but a child.
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Mar 23, 2013 10:07
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FRINGE posted:Its only obvious in the sense that you are projecting your personal philosophy onto it. If the game does manage to be like PS:T then the journey (the game) will bring the depth to the philosophical problem. Most "big" questions are like that. I'm not really projecting my own philosophy, it's just that this sort of question really only has a limited amount of answers as opposed to something like "What's the meaning of life?" (even though that's totally generic). "What does one life matter?" could only really be answered with saying it can matter from a lot to not at all, regardless of what journey the game will take us on it will apply to it the same way, as opposed to "What can change the nature of a man?" when the journey could take a different course and then regret and belief wouldn't be the main answers to it in the context of that game.
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Mar 23, 2013 10:07
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Maybe it's a rhetorical question and continually analysing it is dumb.
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Mar 23, 2013 10:10
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I happen to agree with Xaziel to an extent. Perhaps the difference is that "what can change the nature of a man?" is a question that remains fully confined within the person, and demands for introspection. Whereas when you read "What does one life matter?", I expect it's not uncommon to he mentally hear a 'in the grand scheme of things' or 'across the centuries' at the end of the sentence. And extrospection in a fantasy setting is a lot less interesting than introspection (because people are still people but the world is made up). Unlike Xaziel, though, I think it's possible - if not necessarily likely - that the question will not be asked from that perspective. E.g. "how much do you give a poo poo about one life?". Chairchucker posted:Maybe it's a rhetorical question and continually analysing it is dumb. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 10:14
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Xaziel posted:I'm not really projecting my own philosophy, it's just that this sort of question really only has a limited amount of answers as opposed to something like "What's the meaning of life?" (even though that's totally generic). "What does one life matter?" could only really be answered with saying it can matter from a lot to not at all, regardless of what journey the game will take us on it will apply to it the same way, as opposed to "What can change the nature of a man?" when the journey could take a different course and then regret and belief wouldn't be the main answers to it in the context of that game. The two questions are the same in value. To use your words: "when the journey could take a different course and then" ... would make the question "What does one life matter" a very different thing. One life might: "Not matter at all." (Nihilist) "Create a great evil." (We'll go with Godwin on this to stay non-controversial.) "Save the world." (Stanislav Petrov. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov ) "Save a kitten." (Maybe that kitten consoled a sad child and stopped them from committing suicide.) "Run over my best friend." (Maybe the friend would have been a great Good/Evil. Maybe the surviving friend changed their course because of the death...) These kinds of differences are the match for the kinds of things that answer "What can change the nature of a man?" Regret, love, nothing... What can change the nature of a man? As you said regarding the other question: "a lot to not at all".
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Mar 23, 2013 10:30
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FRINGE posted:I wasnt picking on you BTW - its just what people do. The difference is that it boils down to "change a lot about the world" and "change nothing about the world" and the spectrum between, as opposed to many unrelated to each other things. Also it's "What does one life matter?" and not "What can one life do?", but yeah. Not saying it's a horrible meaningless question, just that it's less intriguing going into the game with that question in mind as opposed to PST with its own. Still totally hyped for the game though. Also saying that one live can 'not matter at all' isn't necessarily nihilist, there can be a life that simply doesn't impact anything or anyone significantly or at all. Xaziel fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 10:52
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To be fair, they're going into it with a bit more detail than just "a lot/not much". The Tides mechanic for example is all about the kind of legacy you leave and what exactly you're remembered for.
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Mar 23, 2013 11:06
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Xaziel posted:Also saying that one live can 'not matter at all' isn't necessarily nihilist, there can be a life that simply doesn't impact anything or anyone significantly or at all. The idea of interconnectedness leads to a lot of things to pursue within that question...
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Mar 23, 2013 11:06
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- double -
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Mar 23, 2013 11:07
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I think the ME games are great, on the same level as PS:T? No, but very few games are, and I can like both genres of rpg.
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Mar 23, 2013 11:08
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NihilCredo posted:
I'm saying that I'm pretty sure one of the devs explicitly said that it wasn't supposed to be a question that you find out the answer and go 'Oh, so it turns out that that one life matters exactly this amount, that's interesting', but that it was more supposed to be a thematic thingie whatsit.
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Mar 23, 2013 11:28
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poo poo, just noticed Christ Avellone will join the production team if they make it to 3.5m, better make it happen.
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Mar 23, 2013 11:42
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Pyradox posted:To be fair, they're going into it with a bit more detail than just "a lot/not much". The Tides mechanic for example is all about the kind of legacy you leave and what exactly you're remembered for. quote:What Do You Mean by My Legacy?
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Mar 23, 2013 11:46
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Just in case anyone wonders what Gaiman could have potentially brought if Colin had his every wish come true you might want to give this a read http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/mar/22/down-sunless-sea-neil-gaiman-short-story?INTCMP=SRCH
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Mar 23, 2013 14:35
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Overminty posted:Just in case anyone wonders what Gaiman could have potentially brought if Colin had his every wish come true you might want to give this a read Still miles ahead of the average video game writing, by all means. But I would hope there's more impressive prose than that to be found in Gaiman's work. (For what it's worth, I adored Sandman and loathed Neverwhere, which I guess makes me currently 50-50 on the man.)
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Mar 23, 2013 15:13
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NihilCredo posted:
I use ME as a recent example of lovely RPGs that people crow over as if they were actually RPGs but I can go back to pretty much RPG after DA1 was created if you'd like. The point is this, and gasp, the ToN devs agreed with me in a long email exchange we had. RPGs have been going down the wrong road for a while, this game and Wasteland 2 is a chance to fix it. You're speculating on a question like Philosophy 101 people. Wait and see what they present beforeyou go  What does one life matter? Well whatevs. Text in my game? Feh. No female character like Miranda (or, to make NihilCredo happy) Morrigan's boobs hanging out? No thanks *goes back to Call of Duty*For older gamers, RPGs were about the story, experience and the unique and memorable characters. What RPGs have been turding out these past years have avoided that. Necroneocon fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 17:32
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Necroneocon posted:I use ME as a recent example of lovely RPGs that people crow over as if they were actually RPGs but I can go back to pretty much RPG after DA1 was created if you'd like. Well I would use ME as a recent example of an RPG that was rad as heck with the exception of one or two slight problems in 'finishing up.' The point is this, and gasp, William Shakespeare agreed with me in a long series of letters that we wrote to each other and added little love hearts to the bottom, RPGs have been going down several different roads for a while, and using words like 'wrong' about the direction one particular franchise decided to take is dumb, and your 'Oh, you don't agree with me, well go back to Call of Duty' comment is also dumb. Also a lot of old school RPGs were basically straight dungeon crawls.
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Mar 23, 2013 17:45
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Necroneocon posted:I use ME as a recent example of lovely RPGs that people crow over as if they were actually RPGs but I can go back to pretty much RPG after DA1 was created if you'd like. I guess I should go back to Call of Duty. Christ, but this is an awful post. e: I feel like I wanna add more content here, so - painting everyone who likes a thing you don't as misogynist Call of Duty-lovers is pure nerd tribalism. Backing up your semi-literate smugness with "I had a long e-mail conversation, subordinate clause gasp, with the developers and they say I'm right!" is crass. And oh my God, I just noticed you said "turding out". Everything about the things you have written here is just so bad. Android Blues fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 17:53
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Necroneocon posted:For older gamers, RPGs were about the story, experience and the unique and memorable characters. The ME series has this so I dunno why you used it as an example.
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Mar 23, 2013 18:00
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Mass Effect is a space RPG, and it's pretty much the only space RPG, so that's why I play it. I don't mind elves and post apocalyptic wastelands, but they get old after a while, you know?
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Mar 23, 2013 18:13
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